Trade System Terribly Flawed

I've made sure to PM every person I see selling sup vigors in-game for 50k+ and try to convince them to sell to runetrader to keep him stocked and bring prices down and surprisingly it's worked. I've convinced 3 people to do it so far, and all with arguments about what they're doing to the economy.

the more people sell to the trader, the lower his prices go, the reason they go back up is people buy from him right away when they are low, then they go back up, but if you check every time when you go to a town that has one, you will see lower prices sometimes, it was down to 86 platfor a sup vigor the other night when i checked,(it was like 4 in the morning) it was back up the next day because people went and bought them from him for the lower price, but it IS working, just because a few runes(vigor, sword, absorbtion) are still expensive look at how cheap most of the others have gotten, most major runes are available for a few hundred from him, and thats alot cheaper than they used to be

Yea i sold my sup vigor to trader a while ago when they offered 79K+ for it. I couldn't believe i got so much for it from a trader. I have seen the past couple days people selling as low as 65k but also as high as 90k. So i guess its getting through to some people. Slowly but surely it seems to be doing a LITTLE something, but as far as weapons go the prices are as high as ever. I guess its the tortise and the hare philosophy, slow and steady wins the race.

augh i didn't read it either...USE PARAGRAPH BREAKS....at least thats what my english teacher says...I'm not sure i agree with what i think you are talking about either.

All the inflation and extravagent prices are due to farming. Farming allowed these people to make lots of money at the beginning selling low at first, then when they got lots of money, they could by everything up and then wait a while and then start charging crazy ammounts for everything, why I don't know. Even if you want designer armor you only need 75k for the suit, and then if you want to buy all the resources, I don't know why, I'd rather earn them myself, but there is no reason to sell individual items for over 100k, there is just no need for the money later on.

I've seen the concept of supply and demand thrown around like some holy tenet...what people don't realize is that supply and demand, prior to the installation of the rune traders, was completely based on town/area and district. Someone could have been selling major vigor for 10k in one district of one town, while another was selling for 75k in another town. It happened. That was why the traders got installed.

They keep everyone honest, no matter what people say. I'm admittedly part of the problem for inflated rune prices: I'm a hoarder. I have superior vigors I won't sell to the trader yet won't use, simply to have them in case I need them. On the other hand, those people who have been blessed with the ability to sell crappy storm bows for 20k or "UBAR GODLY RAWK SWARDS" for 200k are able to buy any runes they please, while farmers who could have otherwise kept rune prices low were shut-down by ANet.

I guess I don't worry about whether people charge 100k for a weapon or not. To me, the realization that I can only stow 1000 plats in my storage is the limiter. I'm not greedy simply because there is a physical limit to how much I can squeeze from the unwashed masses. In time that will stop most people from charging what they do....if you have five weapons to sell for that amount and already have 100k on three chars and 800k in the bank, well...you're screwed.

People don't actually get that gold works on the same premise as supply and demand; in this case it's called inflation. As the demand for currency rises, its intrinsic value drops. Gold sinks (like the 15k armor) only made people demand more money for their sales, which in turn made that money worth less. To blame it on the farmers is only facing half of the problem...farmers are self-sufficient and can pay what people ask. Adding more sinks ensures players who don't farm are not phased by the limits on carrying platinum/gold...instead it actually ensures they will cycle through their devalued money so quickly that they'll never have to give it a thought.

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Actually i do that too.. quite often..
I mean... personally i would never pay 100k+ for anything in the game...
not to mention i dont' even have that amount.. but even if i do...still won't
i know lot of ppl sell there loot and made tons of money.. but honestly .. i got fed up with doing WTS WTS WTS.... unless i got something really good... and probably sold for ultra low price compare to lot of ppl...(never sell anyting to anyone over 1k... )
besides.. giving free stuff to newbies are fun.. and feels great too.. few of them come back to party later on...
most of the not so hot item i will jsut sell it back to merchent...
(never did 10 runes tho... i like to do it to specific class.. so .. warrior get warrior rune/weapon... one each person... .. since i think lot of ppl needs them.. for real)
anyway.. back to the 100k+ thing.. i mean if u look at some new players they are selling 10 bones, 5 hides... and u jack the price up to 200k per sup rune... how do u feel... ...
so... i don't know... that's my 2 cents...

Our problem is that all of the "smart" traders are the sellers and the stupid traders are (more than often) the buyers.

Whether or not it's stupid to pay more than 100k for anything in this game is a matter of opinion. The fact of the matter is that people are doing it and will continue to do it for the foreseeable future. Currently there isn't a good way to handle those transactions.

The easiest way to handle these transactions, from a player's perspective, is to change the trade window so it has your stored gold available in addition to your character gold.

Phaedrus and Ba Ne Preach on brothers PREACH on. This is the message i've been trying to get through for a long time. Now quick comment about the new patch smashing farm spots. Peoeple say this will crash the economy.

I would like to know if you agree. I mean won't making rare drops even RARER drive up the price of valuable things being that finding them by killing monsters in high lvl areas now is practically impossible. So if you a great weapon you either have to wish upon a star or buy from the few people left who are willing to sell cause drops of that caliber will be extremely rare.

All those with 2 cents throw into the fountain now

The trade window has 7 slots in each direction, for the tiny proportion of trades which involve more than 100k gold it is simple to take other valuable items in exchange or to be held as surety and immediately traded back for the outstanding gold.

I can't believe this 'Terrible Flaw' which is actually a non-issue has generated 2 pages of posts.

Yes it is an issue my friend. Not everyone has a good item to trade for the first payment of gold then get back upon completion of transaction. And as for 100k +a good item for above 100k trade offs, that only works if that item is wanted by the other party which more often than not is not the case. Trade window should allow for more gold point blank.

I have to admit that all this rune trading business has truly gotten out of hand.

However, because the economy is merely shifting in real-time to the supply and demand, there is not much to be done about it as of yet. As long as a few people hold the supply, and the masses are demanding, the prices will be high.

That being said, I have to say that the gold sink idea with the henchmen is a great idea. Very few games have I played where a mercenary or henchman will quest with you for free...and having them cost more for the areas that are farmed more only makes sense. Lets flesh this idea out a bit more:

Lets say first of all that you CAN have free henchmen. This only makes sense for the people that merely need assistance in questing through the game with NPC's as their party members. However, if you wish, you CAN pay for henchmen. How? Simply insert a dialogue function with the henchmen that ask whether you will pay them for their services or not. If you pay, depending on how much, the percentage of loot they take for themselves will decrease. Therefore, you spend money, get more items, everyone goes home happy.

EX: You go to a popular farming location. Lets say Lornar's Pass, just for a good all around example. You can quest with free henchmen, drops are the same as they are now. OR you can pay in increments of 2k, 5k, and 10k, in order to get 10%, 15%, 20% more drops, or just increase the rarity of items dropped. I do believe it could be balanced out to work as an excellent gold sink.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Hmm thats a pretty good idea. Not sure if i agree exactly with the pricing but still i like where you were going with that.

I think they should introduce skins for armor and weapons. For ex. everyones flamberge or dragon or anything for that matter could be customized for a more original look along with the +20% bonus you get with customizing.

I think this should be the case even more so for armors. Insteand of having everyones armor look the same they should just have a blank canvas with stats and you pay to make each piece look different. From time to time changing it as you get bored. I think that would help a great deal as well as give people more individuality.

Thats actually terrible logic. Why should ANet up the 100k limit on people when they are fixing the problem? Make any sense? Nope.. but go ahead and not think about things before you say them.

It seems to me that there does need to be some kind changes to the monetary system in this game. As it is right now, the system seems to encourage farming, since in order to get these high value items you need to horde all the loot and gold you can get by killing monsters - of course, now that Arena.net cut back on drops, it makes it all the harder to work your way to that 4k for black dye, or even more for runes, and the likes.

As a side note, they need to rework this farming thing as there have been several times where I need to replay a mission or map area in order to complete the quest (sometimes up to a half dozen times), and I would like to at least be rewarded with loot and gold every time I have to grind my way through this place to complete a part of the game. To receive less and less stuff for an area I have to get through as part of the storyline Arena.net themselves created is a bit unfair I think, especially when you have teammates/henchman who also share in the loot.

Back to the main point - the cost of some of these items is way to high - especially when you consider there's no warning about it in the tutorial section of the game. I lost count of how many vials of dye I sold prior to Post-Searing only to learn they have a high value at the trader in Ascalon. There needs to be some sort of connection with item pricing between both halves of this game to avoid scammers and the like taking advantage of the noob who ends up selling his Silver or Black dye for min. price in Pre-Searing.

In the end, Arena.net needs to make all items in this game available from merchants and traders for a resonable price. That's the only way to eliminate farming and the inflation that now runs rampant in the game. Buying black dye at a fixed 400 GP is much more reasonable than the 4-5k it now varies at. If someone then wants to pay a premium to get an item when they first reach Ascalon (instead of completing missions to get to Lion's Arch where the item can be had from a merchant, let's say), then the more power to them (and the seller who gets the money).

As it is now, to be forced to pay that premium for black dye at a trader, or cling to the far flung hope that someday I may kill a monster that just may drop a vial is just being unreasonable.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

I think that with every item, at least ones that have traders(runes,dyes,materials) there should be some way to see what the current selling or buying price of those is. That way new players have an easy reference on a good price to sell items to players. And it will be slightly harder for people to be cheated out of their money.

I think an auction house would go a long way here. Problem is, I don't know how cumbersome it would be; If there's only one, then it's possible to have to cycle through THOUSANDS of the same item. Even if the Auction house was split into the major cities, I see it as being a problem. Maybe if there was a bill board in each major city that recorded the last 5-10 prices an item went for...?

Why exactly would ANYONE ANYWHERE buy something for MORE then a person can hold? 100K is the max value of ANYTHING in the game. and should be enforced that way. unfortunately we have people like you that is not satisfied with filling their pockets too capacity they want to juggle some over their head too... Forget it... you guys that are charging that much for stuff are SO extremely ill conceived... If 100k is not enough for you PER ITEM, Well I guess your buggered then... Get out of my face... Anyone stupid enough to give you more deserves to be scammed that way. When will people put these jerks out of business??? STOP BUYING FROM THEM!!! Part of the reason the rune trader exists was to get you worthless hoarding pain in the butt people out of the economy, because anyone in their right mind should be able to buy whatever they want from a NPC VERY VERY soon... Including weapon upgrades... this will make you people collecting gold to sell on ebay and such obsolete... Cause that's all you are doing it for. certainly not for the game, cause noting legitimate in the game is worth that much EVER!!! Even the Sigils are max valued at 100k. I mean come on man. play the game, stop being a dork about your gold limit... Hell I'm for MORE GOLD SINKS!!! lets get all this gold out of the system... anyone with over 100k gets capped at that amount... God I wish Arenanet would have the BALLS to do it... but they will not...

I have been dumping superior runes on the rune trader every day to drive the prices down. and its working... we got superior Absorption and Vigor down to the 60 and 70k range the other day. I have been doing that with every rune I pick up now. just to get you people out of business. so when you start selling runes for 150k... people will say ARE YOU NUTS?

The weapons Crafter will soon be making upgrade components as well for customized weapons, so that part of the economy is about to be be fixed and you people will have another avenue for gold hoarding and selling game gold on ebay CLOSED!

Hey Ingram, can you do that with the dye as well ;p!! As a part of my guild, I offer free trades for any and all items I have available, just because it's stupid to pay these high prices for items. Unfortunately, it looks like the farming issue will not be going away as Sony will be legitimizing the process by offering up virtual game items for sale such as the underground has been doing on eBay for years.

The simple fact of the matter remains that rare items will always fetch outrageous prices, and the only way to fix the ecomony is to make sure everyone realizes that they can get any item they want from an NPC at some point along their path through the game. I am currently hording as much as I can just to simply have a supply I can offer my guild members for free (or to sell to get enough gold to purchase an item for a member) until the system is fixed.

Gold sinks are a nice idea, but how will that ultimately bring down the price of runes or the coveted black dye? By forcing players to use more of their gold for advancing through the game, it will only make hording a higher priority in order to be able to afford those rare items.

Let's face it, a noob will need to hord and sell in the Pre-Searing world to accumulate the 2k necessary to create a guild cape, yet it only costs 100gp to form the guild in the first place (if memory serves)? That's a little backwards, in my opinion. But already, the farming/hording mentality is being formed as a result of the economics created by the developers. The economics of the game favor the hard-core 24/7 type of player. Arena.net needs make available all items in the game at a set cost from NPC's, and make these items available at a progressive state, so that completing quests and missions becomes the priority to upgrading and personalizing characters and weapons, rewarding those who actually play the game to completion as intended rather than monster hunt for hording.

As it is now, the first time I took a character to Post-Searing and saw the price of runes, I said to myself, I really need to bash some heads so I can afford this stuff. If I know that I can get a Superior Rune of Whatever from So&So NPC for 750gp after completing the Fort Ranik mission, well then, I'll be spending my time questing through to that point in the game instead of trying to build up my gold supplies to be able to afford the thing and/or hoping I come across a monster who drops the item.

The only real way to drive down the prices of this stuff and put an end to the farming and out of game transactions is to make sure that all players have access to all items by playing the game through to its conclusion. Naturally, the further one progresses through the game, the higher the quality of item and its price, but as the player will be gaining gold and loot from taking part in quests and missions, it will remain an affordable transaction and act as a gold sink in and of itself.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

so RTS your calling a good 60% of GW dumbass's? i see alot of people on this game buying and selling for 100k+ items

+ for the original post the max gold carryied should be the same as the storage max. yes arena.net has probably thought wow nobodys going to go over 100k ever but it happened get over it make a simple change add a 0 on the max carried.

Easier said then done Snipe... for one they would need to increase the bit size for the wallet. This is the Main reason The Storage bin has a vault in it was so the developers did not have to do that... And Yes I am calling the 60% that are doing it if that is true dumb asses... ignorance of fair market values is the breeding ground for leeches that overcharge...

And no Hanok... gold sinks do not do that. eventually a typical gold sink pulls gold OUT of an economy efficiently enough to make the prices go down, not up... why? cause it makes the gold piece more valuable... Like the Dollar and yen... the more yen there are in a economy, the more something costs. Bread is 20,000 yen, but only $4 in the US. same price, different currency value. now you understand? This is why after a certain period of time we have been seeing runes come down to fair market values. One... people are dumping them on the market like myself to drive the price down through the trader, and two, more gold is being pulled out of the game and effectively making gold more valuable overall.

The real world governments do this to control inflation as well.. Setting market values, and pulling currency in to be destroyed and not replaced actually makes the dollar stronger...

Previously people were getting gold from the system, through farming, quests, missions, salvage WHATEVER... and it would just keep changing hands, and never return to the system to be destroyed ("Gold Sinks") thus there was TOO much gold in the economy and EVERYTHING was getting expensive... Then these people with 500k were turning around and selling that gold on E-bay and other services for Real money... other wise know as CHEATING...

Arenanet specifically wants to stop this activity above all else. They have been locking out accounts that show this kind of activity, with the whisper receipt number mentality. and rightfully so... this is making such services angry as hell, cause they have effectively done this with every other MMOPRG in existence and RUINED the games in the process, and they want to do the same with guildwars... If ArenaNet have anything to say about it, they will not be able too for long...

Thanks Ingram, I see what you're saying now - it took me a while, but it clicked. Anet will just have to make sure they bring the prices down on the NPC's as well, as I believe only an influx of items sold to traders can affect those prices. If horders don't sell to the NPC's, then they can still keep the cost of a lot of items at a premium.

It occurred to me over the last few hours that a good way of cutting out the scamming and inflation is simply to eliminate the trade of gold between players unless they belong to the same guild. This will force people to trade for items of close value rather than simply hording gold, yet still allow friends and guildmates to help each other out financially, which should be part and parcel of guilds anyway.

That, combined with progressively better loot drops as you progress through the game ought to cut a lot of this nonsense out. As players get closer to the finish line, common white drops should become the rarity with purple and gold increasing the closer to the end one gets. This will allow equal chance for all to get those rare items in addition to having them offered for sale by merchants and traders along the same progressive state. That might encourage more people to avoid the scammers and wait until they get to a certain part of the game to get the item for a better price.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace