Yes, perhaps my initial post was a bit demanding and I did make that posting to ArenaNet fairly late in the evening, so perhaps not as articulate as I'd like.
Many points, valid, have been brought up and I've agreed with many and through the discussion I think constructive ideas have come up. And changed sligtly my positions, I would hope being even more reasonable in them.
Like allowing for players to progress through the game without having to do all the missions, but I still disagree with instant 3-20 jumps.
And putting level requirements on the armors would help, rather than cut them off completely unless you Ascend.
I'm not really trying to dictate how everyone plays, but in a multiplayer game, these concerns I would think are more legitmate than they would be in a single player game. While GW can be played single player, its at it's heart a multiplayer game.
While hoards of MMORPG's are out there forcing grind on players, GW is fresh in the idea that it's relativly easy to not only gain the max level and armors, but also all the skills, with minimal grind. One character could unlock everything. So I dont really see the *need* to have rushing. If you lost the skills permantly when you changed professions, perhaps it'd be more concern. But you dont.
Level 3's & Ascension
Jedsia
Cymboric Treewalker
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Originally Posted by salja Wachi
i am sorry to tell you that if you change professions you lose all the skills you unlocked for that profession.
in order to have all 6 professions you must have 3 characters. there is no other way my friend. |
Jedsia
No actually thats not correct either.
The skills become disabled on that character, not lost permanently
If you go back later and open up the second profession again, all your unlocked skills from that profession will still be there.
For example, a Mo/E unlocks alot of Elem skills, then switches to Necro. Ele becomes disabled. But if you switch back to Elem, all your Elem skills come back and the Necro skills become disabled.
Think of them as being put in the freezer till you want to use them again.
The skills become disabled on that character, not lost permanently
If you go back later and open up the second profession again, all your unlocked skills from that profession will still be there.
For example, a Mo/E unlocks alot of Elem skills, then switches to Necro. Ele becomes disabled. But if you switch back to Elem, all your Elem skills come back and the Necro skills become disabled.
Think of them as being put in the freezer till you want to use them again.
Juhanah
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Originally Posted by Rothgar
And yes, the Ascension at level 3 effects everyone in the game, and if you can't see why, its pretty obvious, get a clue.
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I play everyday and i'm having fun. I saw someone lv6 in Thirsty River one day, It didn't stop me doing the mission and having fun doing it.
I finished the last mission with my first character 2 day ago with a very good party. No one died even once and it was all our first time doing it. I had very much fun playing with them and i'm sure they think the same.
Please, if people who ascend at lv3 reduce my fun it the game. Tell me how because i cannot imagine how it can in anyway reduce the fun i'm having with my friends everyday in GuildWars.
DarrenJasper
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Originally Posted by Jedsia
While hoards of MMORPG's are out there forcing grind on players, GW is fresh in the idea that it's relativly easy to not only gain the max level and armors, but also all the skills, with minimal grind. One character could unlock everything. So I dont really see the *need* to have rushing. If you lost the skills permantly when you changed professions, perhaps it'd be more concern. But you dont.
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This is because there are diminishing returns on skill points you get from levelling past 20. At the moment, for my main RP character to level up it will require over 100,000 EXP, and I'm nowhere near unlocking all the skills in the game. I've done all the quests and bonuses, most if not all of the high-return Temple of Ages quests, so all that remains for me to get EXP is to plow through monsters at a whopping 34XP per. If I were to continue in this fashion until all my skills were unlocked, it would undoubtedly take me the better part of a year of non-stop, unstimulating hack-and-slashfests.
So again, you cannot reasonably unlock all the skills with one character.
This is why people roll up 2 or 3 and run them through the missions again: So that they get the skill points from missions and bonuses and easy levelling without having to grind out tens of thousands of EXP just for one point.
Cymboric Treewalker
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
because it doesn't effect your game at all....there's no reason to care.
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Ascension doesn't affect anyone else's game, but getting run to Draknar's does because the low level person with max armor can go back and own in the lower level arenas.
Cymboric Treewalker
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Originally Posted by Moskel
There is a lot more to this game than levels. If a L3 is ascending we're looking at a very absolute extreme. It is hard to make it to the desert and not be higher level than that by accident.
My most recent character through has skipped almost all of the missions? Why? Because I've done them countless times with my first 2 (the times they did it and all the times I helped pull guild mates through that were stuck). Would you join a PuG led by a L13 R/Me at Elona? Those that did last night sure were glad, we finished with around 11 minutes left on the timer and had only 2 deaths the whole run (one little SNAFU with a bridge and a bunch of Forgotten on it and a Sage hiding). After the Elona PuG we ran down to Dunes to open that up, who was the one who survived and zoned in? The L13 ranger (you don't wanna know how many times I've run guildies through the desert) thanks to a very timely Res Signet use as we entered the final Canyon and a Forgotton Bow got a nasty critical |
My best to-date performance was getting to the Gates of Kryta with Henchman at level 7. No one there was willing to group with me until after someone said "I don't play with guys who get run here" and I responded that I got there by running with henchman only and knew where the bonus was.
then I had invites from several groups.
Cymboric Treewalker
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Originally Posted by DarrenJasper
People are getting perturbed because it very much sounds like you're trying to limit the way some people play their game, without really any valid reason to do so since, as you've admitted, it doesn't affect you. They figure, if it's not hurting anyone why are you so up in arms about having it stopped? And I'd tend to agree. I think if you go back and read over your original post you will agree your tone sounded pretty demanding.
As a PvP player, I could give a damn whether my opponent spent hours punching out idiot AI with idiotic PUGs or braindead henchmen. I completely understand the desire to skip all that claptrap if all you want to do is PvP. I think you'll find people react with hostility when they feel like you're just trying to impose your own system of morals onto other people's game, and I don't think it was out of line to call you arrogant for it. If it's not hurting you in any concievable way, you really have no right to demand it be changed. |
This game is a lot like Magic the Gathering and in that game you built a deck with the cards you had. Some cards were rare other were not. Would it be fair if anyone could have all the cards and there was no rarity? Maybe, but it would change the game.
This game PvP is altered by what skills a person has unlocked. Imagine not having to work hard at getting those skills unlocked... instant leveling a lvl3 char works like that vs. those who work hard to get all their skills... does that dimish the PvP experience at level 20? I think it does, but you are free to have your opinion. People not having to work for their skills cheapens the game IMHO.
Cymboric Treewalker
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Originally Posted by DarrenJasper
You keep saying this but it's just not true. In theory: Yes, you could unlock every skill in the game with one character switching between secondaries. In practice? No. Never.
This is because there are diminishing returns on skill points you get from levelling past 20. At the moment, for my main RP character to level up it will require over 100,000 EXP, and I'm nowhere near unlocking all the skills in the game. I've done all the quests and bonuses, most if not all of the high-return Temple of Ages quests, so all that remains for me to get EXP is to plow through monsters at a whopping 34XP per. If I were to continue in this fashion until all my skills were unlocked, it would undoubtedly take me the better part of a year of non-stop, unstimulating hack-and-slashfests. So again, you cannot reasonably unlock all the skills with one character. This is why people roll up 2 or 3 and run them through the missions again: So that they get the skill points from missions and bonuses and easy levelling without having to grind out tens of thousands of EXP just for one point. |
Mimu
I, honestly do not see how lowbies at the ascension area affects the other players in the slightest..
If they removed this option, it would make it extremely difficult for people to unlock the skills for PvP..
I do not agree with an UAS button (for various reasons) and am not a Pvper (yet) ..but forcing a PvPer who has little to no interest in completing the missions for the third time to sit through the boredom would be unfair and most likely lead to a lot of them leaving, creating empty arenas.
If they bother you that much, switch districts or do not party with them.
It may annoy you a bit, but it is quite an important part of the game to many people..
Edit: And for the record, my elementalist ascended at level 20, and my necro is level 20 and waiting in the desert.
But having a level requirement on Droknar's armour would be useful..
If they removed this option, it would make it extremely difficult for people to unlock the skills for PvP..
I do not agree with an UAS button (for various reasons) and am not a Pvper (yet) ..but forcing a PvPer who has little to no interest in completing the missions for the third time to sit through the boredom would be unfair and most likely lead to a lot of them leaving, creating empty arenas.
If they bother you that much, switch districts or do not party with them.
It may annoy you a bit, but it is quite an important part of the game to many people..
Edit: And for the record, my elementalist ascended at level 20, and my necro is level 20 and waiting in the desert.
But having a level requirement on Droknar's armour would be useful..
Icarium
[/QUOTE]My best to-date performance was getting to the Gates of Kryta with Henchman at level 7. No one there was willing to group with me until after someone said "I don't play with guys who get run here" and I responded that I got there by running with henchman only and knew where the bonus was.
then I had invites from several groups.[/QUOTE]
ha! thats awsome! i did the same thing at lvl 8 , and just by chance 3 others had just arived by running, we hooked up and fought tooth and nail through that mission, one of the best times ive had on GW
then I had invites from several groups.[/QUOTE]
ha! thats awsome! i did the same thing at lvl 8 , and just by chance 3 others had just arived by running, we hooked up and fought tooth and nail through that mission, one of the best times ive had on GW
The Flounder
I was doing some pvp in ascalon yesterday, I have a level 9 Ele/Mo, I came across this Ranger several times that wouldn't take damage, he acually just sat down in the middle of the match! I used Firestorm and Lava Font on him and it barly dinged him for any damage, I knew he must of had late in the game armor or something, just disgusted and ranting, sorry.
Juhanah
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Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
Lets refocus:
Ascension doesn't affect anyone else's game, but getting run to Draknar's does because the low level person with max armor can go back and own in the lower level arenas. |
I know some people go throught Lornar's Pass to Droknar's Forge only to get them self a full def armor to go "pwn" in lower lv arena and its sad. But Jedsia clearly mentioned it ruined PvE because he have to "work" his way to ascension while some people take an easy way.
Sorry Jedsia but i'm not flaming you or anything.. I just can't see how and why it could ruin your fun in PvE if a stranger that you will probably never see again ascended at lv3.
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Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
So you are saying that you want to cheapen the hard work and effort other people put in because you are impatient?
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A game is not to be worked but to be played.
I am playing the game, I make all missions and quests slowly with my friends, sometime i just sit there in maps and chat with my guildmates while looking at the beautiful environement Arenanet created. I am having fun this way.. If other people are having fun in another way, it's their own business and i don't care as long as they don't cut my fun out.
In another way, If it was a work and there was people who quit earlier and get as much money as other people who are working to exhaustion, then there would be a reason to be pissed off.
DarrenJasper
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Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
So you are saying that you want to cheapen the hard work and effort other people put in because you are impatient?
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And I'm hardly impatient, I bought this game to challenge myself with adaptable gameplay and smart competition. Not play whack-a-mole until my fingers go numb, thanks.
jYd
http://guildwars.paniconline.net/mod...iewtopic&t=111
^^ w00t ...i don't know how people ascended at lvl 3....that makes very little sense..you get lvl 2 just leaving ascalon...and 5000exp doing missions just to get ascended... that char 'had' ~6500
=-=-=-=-=-= to those who don't know..i had already done this once..i didn't plan on doing most the crap twice.
^^ w00t ...i don't know how people ascended at lvl 3....that makes very little sense..you get lvl 2 just leaving ascalon...and 5000exp doing missions just to get ascended... that char 'had' ~6500
=-=-=-=-=-= to those who don't know..i had already done this once..i didn't plan on doing most the crap twice.
Yamat
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Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
Lets refocus:
Ascension doesn't affect anyone else's game, but getting run to Draknar's does because the low level person with max armor can go back and own in the lower level arenas. |
This is a loophole that needs to be fixed.
Samra
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Originally Posted by DarrenJasper
You keep saying this but it's just not true. In theory: Yes, you could unlock every skill in the game with one character switching between secondaries. In practice? No. Never.
This is because there are diminishing returns on skill points you get from levelling past 20. |
Juhanah
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Originally Posted by Samra
Actually you're missing the point. If you change your secondary, you can go back and complete all of the quests for your new secondary profession with your Level 20 character. I've actually been planning to do that with my first character ... just swap into each secondary and complete all the quests. Should be easy, and you'll unlock a lot of the skills that way.
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Cymboric Treewalker
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Originally Posted by Juhanah
Jedsia was talking about ruining the PvE.
What hard work? This is a game... If you "work" your way through the game, You're ruining it by yourself in my opinion... A game is not to be worked but to be played. I am playing the game, I make all missions and quests slowly with my friends, sometime i just sit there in maps and chat with my guildmates while looking at the beautiful environement Arenanet created. I am having fun this way.. If other people are having fun in another way, it's their own business and i don't care as long as they don't cut my fun out. In another way, If it was a work and there was people who quit earlier and get as much money as other people who are working to exhaustion, then there would be a reason to be pissed off. |
As for your last example... I can get done in three hours what most of my fellow co-workers do in about 8... we get paid the same... that sucks too. I think I should be able to go home after my "work" is done and not when the bell chimes.
Cymboric Treewalker
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Originally Posted by DarrenJasper
So it's hard work now and I'm cheapening it? I thought you guys loved PvE, why else would you do it exclusively? If you hate it so much, there's nothing to stop you from doing the same thing I'm doing.
And I'm hardly impatient, I bought this game to challenge myself with adaptable gameplay and smart competition. Not play whack-a-mole until my fingers go numb, thanks. |
If I play the game for eighteen hours to get skill "EliteZ" but you have three of your uber Elite friends just run you to level 20 and then go get all the skills in 3 hours then... um... well... yes it cheapens the effort I put in to attaining the same item. I personally don't care, but was making the point. Oh, and thanks for lumping me in a group of PvE only people. Let me throw your name in the worthless chump pile. (Yeah I think you are a male organ).
astzzz
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Originally Posted by Jedsia
You can change professions after Ascenion if you do Heroes quest, thus unlocking skills for every single class in the game with ONE character.
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People ascend quickly because they want to PvP, so they can do things like hold the HoH or GvG. The only way they affect you is so you can play around in the Fissure or Underworld. Also they're using guildmates and other friends to get there, its hardly 'leeching' as you put it.
Have you ever held the HoH or won a GvG? Be honest.
Maybe one day you'll get to that point where you're very much into PvP, and you'll look back on threads like this and realize the dumb things you've said.
And as far as droknar armor in lowbie arenas: since when has arena mattered for anything?
Jedsia
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Originally Posted by astzzz
Have you ever held the HoH or won a GvG? Be honest. |
As for realizing all the dumb things I've said...if it makes you feel better that I might go cry into my pillow about all this, go right ahead.
Seriously though, this has had some constructive input and some meaningless and overall has been very informative. I dont really see much point in trying to belittle.
Dreamsmith
Oh for crying out loud.
If you don't like instantly jumping from level 3 to level 20, then don't do it!
"OMG, other people are playing the game in a way I don't like. HOW DO I STOP THEM?! People shouldn't be allowed to do anything I wouldn't do..."
First, explain how what they're doing is negatively impacting your ability to play the game the way you want to, and make it something more substantial than "it cheapens the experience". You don't deny other people the freedom to do what they want for reasons as comparatively flimsy as that.
Rothgar, here's a clue for you: the game is instanced. It's almost impossible for the PvE actions of one player to affect any others, save those invited to play with him/her. It's pretty obvious that this doesn't affect others. If there is some way that it does, you'll need to explain it. Claiming it's obvious and therefore you don't have to explain your highly questionable assertion is a pretty shady dodge. If you really think it does affect others, explain how.
If you don't like instantly jumping from level 3 to level 20, then don't do it!
"OMG, other people are playing the game in a way I don't like. HOW DO I STOP THEM?! People shouldn't be allowed to do anything I wouldn't do..."
First, explain how what they're doing is negatively impacting your ability to play the game the way you want to, and make it something more substantial than "it cheapens the experience". You don't deny other people the freedom to do what they want for reasons as comparatively flimsy as that.
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Originally Posted by Rothgar
And yes, the Ascension at level 3 effects everyone in the game, and if you can't see why, its pretty obvious, get a clue.
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ElevenBravo
I see nothing wrong with this, especially if the person already has 1 ascended character. Why should they have to redo all those missions again?
Nim
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Originally Posted by jYd
http://guildwars.paniconline.net/mod...iewtopic&t=111
^^ w00t ...i don't know how people ascended at lvl 3....that makes very little sense..you get lvl 2 just leaving ascalon...and 5000exp doing missions just to get ascended... that char 'had' ~6500 =-=-=-=-=-= to those who don't know..i had already done this once..i didn't plan on doing most the crap twice. |
LOL... good job God of Sodomy... err... I mean Bile Smile. I hope it pisses off all these holier-than-thou, thin skinned, easily offened, whiners and Bible Belt hicks.
-Nim
Yamat
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Originally Posted by astzzz
And as far as droknar armor in lowbie arenas: since when has arena mattered for anything?
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What about people who are in non-competitive guilds made up of friends who just want to play pick-up PvP? Like me...
Just because it doesn't matter to you...
Wyked007
Bah, my guild is one that regularly rushes players. Right now we have a level 2 and a level 3 at amnoon oasis. Come this weekend we will probably push them through all three trials and get them ascended. But we do have rules on this.
We only rush guild mates, we only rush people who already have one char through ascention, and we only do it when we feel like it : )
the instant 20 is absolutely great for players that have already seen the game and want to try out some different characters in underworld/fissure and such.
First time chars paying to ascend, whatever, they are only cheating themselves and they will be shortchanged a lot of skills untill they spend the time to go back and clear areas to get em. let em run with it if it makes em happy.
We only rush guild mates, we only rush people who already have one char through ascention, and we only do it when we feel like it : )
the instant 20 is absolutely great for players that have already seen the game and want to try out some different characters in underworld/fissure and such.
First time chars paying to ascend, whatever, they are only cheating themselves and they will be shortchanged a lot of skills untill they spend the time to go back and clear areas to get em. let em run with it if it makes em happy.
Icarium
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Originally Posted by Wyked007
the instant 20 is absolutely great for players that have already seen the game and want to try out some different characters in underworld/fissure and such.
First time chars paying to ascend, whatever, they are only cheating themselves and they will be shortchanged a lot of skills untill they spend the time to go back and clear areas to get em. let em run with it if it makes em happy. |
asdar
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Originally Posted by astzzz
And as far as droknar armor in lowbie arenas: since when has arena mattered for anything?
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Of course it matters, it's a part of the game. PvP players are whining and crying about getting runes just to get rid of a miniscule advantage but someone outright cheating and with a huge advantage is alright?
No matter how skilled you are in the Ascalon arena you can't take a team with Drak armor. Your only hope in a situation like that is that you'll also have someone on your team that cheated.
Tactical-Dillusions
The way i see it, Lornars pass was placed there for a reason. Something to do with grind elimination maybe? Hmmm.
I applaud anyone who can make the trip from beacons to droknars, level 3 or level 20.
If they ascend early for pvp reasons, good for them. I care little for pvp but i hope they get the best of what they want.
My experience could never be ruined by someone elses gameplay unless you include noobs drawing genitalia on the compass
I applaud anyone who can make the trip from beacons to droknars, level 3 or level 20.
If they ascend early for pvp reasons, good for them. I care little for pvp but i hope they get the best of what they want.
My experience could never be ruined by someone elses gameplay unless you include noobs drawing genitalia on the compass
asdar
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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions
The way i see it, Lornars pass was placed there for a reason. Something to do with grind elimination maybe? Hmmm.
I applaud anyone who can make the trip from beacons to droknars, level 3 or level 20. |
I didn't believe it was possible having won through to Rankor with a group the hard way and seeing all the slows and knockdowns but I watched it with my own eyes.
I won't give the set up but it takes about 20 minutes and no skill.
One warrior with the right set up could take 100 level 3's and the 10 and under arena is hosed. Not only the arena is affected by that either.
The rest of the PVE crowd will have people in their groups with overpowered armor and the challenge which is already too easy will be made even more so.
Rothgar
In very simple terms rushing characters up to level 20 effects who's playing in the missions/quests/Arenas, who's doing Tombs, who is partying with who, how much money/items/runes/etc is entering the game. Basicly way the entire game is experienced by all the players in GW.
In most cases, the instancing reduces the effects any one player has on the game, however, GW characters are not instanced, they are persistant, and therefor their actions effect everyone in the game.
Now, if only one or twenty players were rushing characters through, then no problem, its not a big deal, but if thousands are doing it, it has a huge effect. Once that occurs, ANet is going to do something about it (either by stoping it, or rebalancing the economy, or something we haven't thought of). That is how it effects the individual player. Its pretty simple once you take a macro, rather then a micro, view of the world.
Currently, from what I've seen, the pro and cons of having this in the game seem to be pretty equal to me. Theres some good things that come from it (having more experienced players at the higher levels) and some bad things (level 10's with Forge armor, having newbies advanced to level 20 by a guild who doesn't know what exhaustion does, "cheapens" the game experience, etc).
So far those seem to be the biggest points in this discuession.
In most cases, the instancing reduces the effects any one player has on the game, however, GW characters are not instanced, they are persistant, and therefor their actions effect everyone in the game.
Now, if only one or twenty players were rushing characters through, then no problem, its not a big deal, but if thousands are doing it, it has a huge effect. Once that occurs, ANet is going to do something about it (either by stoping it, or rebalancing the economy, or something we haven't thought of). That is how it effects the individual player. Its pretty simple once you take a macro, rather then a micro, view of the world.
Currently, from what I've seen, the pro and cons of having this in the game seem to be pretty equal to me. Theres some good things that come from it (having more experienced players at the higher levels) and some bad things (level 10's with Forge armor, having newbies advanced to level 20 by a guild who doesn't know what exhaustion does, "cheapens" the game experience, etc).
So far those seem to be the biggest points in this discuession.
Keesa
Jedsia,
Don't get discouraged... people defend what they think is a potential nerf target vigorously.
But... has this now switched to a discussion of "why it's bad to rush level 3's through to Droknar's so they can get uber armor" instead of "why it's bad to rush level 3's through Ascension?"
Because in my ethics set, the first is heinous whereas the second, well...
I came to GW a bit later than my guild. A friend of mine thought I'd enjoy it and badgered me until I bought it. So I did, finally, and loved it of course. Then I had all these questions, and his guildmates were kind enough to let me in their Vent and began answering them and the next thing you know, I've been adopted. They gave me their runes that they couldn't or didn't use, pointed me toward the good websites, all that stuff.
But they were always PvPing so I rolled a PvP-only DW Healer to join them, which got me hooked to the point where I was impatient to run to the next area as quickly as I could, finish the game, and join them... because honestly, the preset characters just don't do it for me. So when I was level 13, they took me and one of our mates who was working on a new character concept (and was level 3 ) through our Ascension missions.
I Ascended myself, and it took me a few tries, but I earned it. Our level 3 (actually 4 by the time we finished the missions) did too (did it quicker in fact, to my chagrin). And now I am able to PvP with my clan with elites I capture for myself and wearing armor I have earned and infused, and that was hard too. And now I'm going back and enjoying the storyline whenever I'm not PvPing with my guildmates, whose company I enjoy a great deal.
I hope that helps give you a different perspective.
Don't get discouraged... people defend what they think is a potential nerf target vigorously.
But... has this now switched to a discussion of "why it's bad to rush level 3's through to Droknar's so they can get uber armor" instead of "why it's bad to rush level 3's through Ascension?"
Because in my ethics set, the first is heinous whereas the second, well...
I came to GW a bit later than my guild. A friend of mine thought I'd enjoy it and badgered me until I bought it.
So I did, finally, and loved it of course. Then I had all these questions, and his guildmates were kind enough to let me in their Vent and began answering them and the next thing you know, I've been adopted. They gave me their runes that they couldn't or didn't use, pointed me toward the good websites, all that stuff.But they were always PvPing so I rolled a PvP-only DW Healer to join them, which got me hooked to the point where I was impatient to run to the next area as quickly as I could, finish the game, and join them... because honestly, the preset characters just don't do it for me. So when I was level 13, they took me and one of our mates who was working on a new character concept (and was level 3
) through our Ascension missions.I Ascended myself, and it took me a few tries, but I earned it. Our level 3 (actually 4 by the time we finished the missions) did too (did it quicker in fact, to my chagrin). And now I am able to PvP with my clan with elites I capture for myself and wearing armor I have earned and infused, and that was hard too. And now I'm going back and enjoying the storyline whenever I'm not PvPing with my guildmates, whose company I enjoy a great deal.
I hope that helps give you a different perspective.
Deagol
After beating the game, you have to create new challenges for yourself. One possible such challenge would be to ascend with zero deaths. Or in the shortest amount of time. Or with least experience.
Ascending at level 3 is a challenge, it is definitively not the easy way out. getting an escort is not trivial, and avoiding to get any exp on the road even harder.
I know a lot of the people here have a MMORPG background, and are playing in order to build "the perfect character", rather than to beat the game. But Guild Wars is only halfway a MMORPG, and a lot of players come from single player games where the goal is to beat the game. And when that is done, beat it at a higher difficulty setting.
Ascending at level 3 is a challenge, it is definitively not the easy way out. getting an escort is not trivial, and avoiding to get any exp on the road even harder.
I know a lot of the people here have a MMORPG background, and are playing in order to build "the perfect character", rather than to beat the game. But Guild Wars is only halfway a MMORPG, and a lot of players come from single player games where the goal is to beat the game. And when that is done, beat it at a higher difficulty setting.
DarrenJasper
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Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
That wooshing noise going over your head was my point.
If I play the game for eighteen hours to get skill "EliteZ" but you have three of your uber Elite friends just run you to level 20 and then go get all the skills in 3 hours then... um... well... yes it cheapens the effort I put in to attaining the same item. I personally don't care, but was making the point. Oh, and thanks for lumping me in a group of PvE only people. Let me throw your name in the worthless chump pile. (Yeah I think you are a male organ). |
Okay. Since how fast you get to level 20 really has nothing to do with getting elites, I don't know what the hell your example is trying to prove, but! If, to collect these skills, it takes you nine times the time it takes me and 3 other people (who are the same level), you are doing something horribly wrong. Or you should consider getting some friends... Which I understand must be a daunting prospect, given your winning personality.
Verbose
I agree with the original poster that this ruins immersion and enjoyment of the game. Here is why (for me):
1) There is a set means and method of intended play. This deliberately bypasses it, which is not intended.
I suppose some of the folks who post here will want to argue over 'intended', but for all intent and purposes, the basic description for 'intended' is the one that the game maker designed, NOT some loophole you found in it. Any adult will understand the difference.
2) Deliberately bypassing intended content is bad for the game as a whole.
If you have to ask why this is the case, you're either not thinking or you're being obtuse.
3) Much of the sense of accomplishment a PvE player has lies in knowing that we all take the same route to the same end in PvE.
Deliberately bypassing content lessens that sense of accomplishment simply by virtue of trivializing the process in the name of 'being uber' or 'getting there faster' or whatever you want to call it that means, 'To heck with what is intended or what it may mean to anyone else playing, I want it and therefore, I am going to have it.'
I do understand, however, that these reasons, founded in logic, likely will not find much support in the 'my way or the highway' crowd, thankfully, it does not make them any less valid.
I would very much like to see ArenaNet put a stop to deliberate bypassing of content. It is bad enough that PvP players ruin every PvE session they're in with leaving as soon as they have a skill or getting everyone else killed to get their skill or any of the other various and numerous displays of thoughtlessness and disinterest in anyone but themselves.
I wish ArenaNet would give them UAS so they would shut up and get bored with PvP over the next year as PvP players always do, then leave the game to those of us who appreciate the content and intended progression as being 'the game'.
Anyway. I'm sure some of these rude people will flame me for daring to have an opinion. That does seem to be their way. Oh well. At least I can hope ArenaNet will hear something other than them in this post.
1) There is a set means and method of intended play. This deliberately bypasses it, which is not intended.
I suppose some of the folks who post here will want to argue over 'intended', but for all intent and purposes, the basic description for 'intended' is the one that the game maker designed, NOT some loophole you found in it. Any adult will understand the difference.
2) Deliberately bypassing intended content is bad for the game as a whole.
If you have to ask why this is the case, you're either not thinking or you're being obtuse.
3) Much of the sense of accomplishment a PvE player has lies in knowing that we all take the same route to the same end in PvE.
Deliberately bypassing content lessens that sense of accomplishment simply by virtue of trivializing the process in the name of 'being uber' or 'getting there faster' or whatever you want to call it that means, 'To heck with what is intended or what it may mean to anyone else playing, I want it and therefore, I am going to have it.'
I do understand, however, that these reasons, founded in logic, likely will not find much support in the 'my way or the highway' crowd, thankfully, it does not make them any less valid.
I would very much like to see ArenaNet put a stop to deliberate bypassing of content. It is bad enough that PvP players ruin every PvE session they're in with leaving as soon as they have a skill or getting everyone else killed to get their skill or any of the other various and numerous displays of thoughtlessness and disinterest in anyone but themselves.
I wish ArenaNet would give them UAS so they would shut up and get bored with PvP over the next year as PvP players always do, then leave the game to those of us who appreciate the content and intended progression as being 'the game'.
Anyway. I'm sure some of these rude people will flame me for daring to have an opinion. That does seem to be their way. Oh well. At least I can hope ArenaNet will hear something other than them in this post.
Keesa
Can you please explain to us non-adult, non-thinking, obtuse players how having other people bypass content affects your gameplay? The only response to this question I've seen from the camp that makes statements like this is: "Your false accomplishment trivializes my own authentic one, and therefore undermines its value."
PhineasToke
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Originally Posted by Keesa
Can you please explain to us non-adult, non-thinking, obtuse players how having other people bypass content affects your gameplay? The only response to this question I've seen from the camp that makes statements like this is: "Your false accomplishment trivializes my own authentic one, and therefore undermines its value."
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Here's an example, I spent TWO hours last night with a player who ascended to post at level 3, did NOT know mercs were free, did NOT know how to create a party, did NOT know how to sell treasure, did NOT know what trade chat was for, and had NO gold until I gave he/she some, and was uisng the original starter weapons.
Get the picture?
Keesa
Actually, no, based on my experience. The level threes I know who ascended are all long time players.
The only person I know who Ascended a first-run character early because their mates helped them through it was, well, me. And I assure you I knew all of the above.
So let's toss both extremes out the window and readdress the question.
Edit: This is just a thought, but... did it perhaps occur to you at any point that in order to Ascend, one has to have grouped at least once? I don't mean this sarcastically... I just suspect your generosity and kindness were being abused.
The only person I know who Ascended a first-run character early because their mates helped them through it was, well, me. And I assure you I knew all of the above.
So let's toss both extremes out the window and readdress the question.
Edit: This is just a thought, but... did it perhaps occur to you at any point that in order to Ascend, one has to have grouped at least once? I don't mean this sarcastically... I just suspect your generosity and kindness were being abused.
spiritofcat
Okay, I've read through this whole thread now, and I see that there are two quite different issues being discussed.
One: Players going from level 3 to level 20 instantly by rushing through to Ascention.
Two: Players rushing to Droknar's Forge and getting the best armour in the game then going back and playing in low level arenas with it.
In my opinion, point One has nothing to do with anyone but the players who do it. They have their reasons, and it doesn't affect you in any way, other than causing you be be bitter and jealous because it took you so much longer to get there.
Point Two may be considered a valid concern because it may upset the balance of those low level arenas and cause a decrease in the level of fun for the majority of 'honest low level players' who want to play there.
One: Players going from level 3 to level 20 instantly by rushing through to Ascention.
Two: Players rushing to Droknar's Forge and getting the best armour in the game then going back and playing in low level arenas with it.
In my opinion, point One has nothing to do with anyone but the players who do it. They have their reasons, and it doesn't affect you in any way, other than causing you be be bitter and jealous because it took you so much longer to get there.
Point Two may be considered a valid concern because it may upset the balance of those low level arenas and cause a decrease in the level of fun for the majority of 'honest low level players' who want to play there.