Level 3's & Ascension

Verbose

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 02:14 - 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesa
Can you please explain to us non-adult, non-thinking, obtuse players how having other people bypass content affects your gameplay? The only response to this question I've seen from the camp that makes statements like this is: "Your false accomplishment trivializes my own authentic one, and therefore undermines its value."
The reason you give, ignoring your obvious ridicule, is a valid one. However, it is not the only one.

There is also the fact that bypassing intended content lowers longevity of the game for those who do so (whether they have enough foresight and awareness to grasp the correlation between exhausted content and leaving a game or not).

There is also the fact that bypassing intended content places additional pressure upon the game developer to produce and release content faster than the planned schedule -- which contributes to everything from buggy releases to poorly planned ones.... all of which great increases the cost of maintaining the game over time as well as great reducing the degree to which content can be relied upon as a means of maintaining equalibrum of the game over its planned life cycle.

It is well documented upon forums like this that most players either do not know or do not care that their actions affect more than just other players.

It is equally well documented that, in most cases, players who adopt this attitude are the first to complain about not having fun or demanding changes.... along with being the first to leave a game after having contributed as well as possible to its demise.

Short-sightedness is not an illness of necessity, but of habit. Let us hope it does less ill in this game than it has in others.

primal98

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 02:49 - 82
(okay I didnt read all 4 pages, so if this point came out, sorry ^_^") Hmmmm well while I dont care at all whether a lvl 3 gets there or not, we can all agree that in a way it does hurt the game.... in the PVP version :P

Guild A needs competent Monks but has none.
Guild B has worked up its Monks.

Guild A rushes a Monk, provides him the funds to unlock all skills.... chango-presto- the person now can create a Monk in PVP with any skills they need

Rinse Was and Repeat

So well.. it kind of hurts the pvp aspect of the game :/

~prime

theclam

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 02:53 - 83
Why would anybody care whether or not someone reaches the endgame legitimately? The only thing that I can see that would be a bad thing, would be low lvls who run to Rocknar's Forge, getting lvl20 armor and screwing up low lvl dueling.

PhineasToke

PhineasToke

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

in a house

Phantom Menace

W/Mo

11 Jun 2005 at 03:17 - 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesa
Actually, no, based on my experience. The level threes I know who ascended are all long time players.

The only person I know who Ascended a first-run character early because their mates helped them through it was, well, me. And I assure you I knew all of the above.

So let's toss both extremes out the window and readdress the question.

Edit: This is just a thought, but... did it perhaps occur to you at any point that in order to Ascend, one has to have grouped at least once? I don't mean this sarcastically... I just suspect your generosity and kindness were being abused.
I am playing an average of about 5 hours a day with my Guild. I (we actually) help anywhere from 1-3 new players each day. From simple questions to leading them to the next town, to actually helping with quests. Not once have I felt abused. I have found that those genuinely needing help aren't abusive or demanding. And the more players we help, the better is is for everyone.

I am so tired of players (asking questions) being harassed as noobs, or being told by the player they asked that "I only plays for myself, noob". The player last night stated that (they) wern't getting help from their guild members, and most were high levels too busy to be bothered. It bothers me that guilds will recruit for quanity and "dues" but won't be mature enough to help the members.


Thanks for listening.

Keesa

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Hotlanta

Pink Fluffy Bunniez

Mo/Me

11 Jun 2005 at 03:42 - 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbose
The reason you give, ignoring your obvious ridicule, is a valid one. However, it is not the only one.

There is also the fact that bypassing intended content lowers longevity of the game for those who do so (whether they have enough foresight and awareness to grasp the correlation between exhausted content and leaving a game or not).

There is also the fact that bypassing intended content places additional pressure upon the game developer to produce and release content faster than the planned schedule -- which contributes to everything from buggy releases to poorly planned ones.... all of which great increases the cost of maintaining the game over time as well as great reducing the degree to which content can be relied upon as a means of maintaining equalibrum of the game over its planned life cycle.

It is well documented upon forums like this that most players either do not know or do not care that their actions affect more than just other players.

It is equally well documented that, in most cases, players who adopt this attitude are the first to complain about not having fun or demanding changes.... along with being the first to leave a game after having contributed as well as possible to its demise.

Short-sightedness is not an illness of necessity, but of habit. Let us hope it does less ill in this game than it has in others.
Hey, now... you ridiculed my demographic. All I did was wear the label you assigned me.

I don't think people are as cookie cutter as these forums tend to make them out to be. The people I know who are tired of the game weren't rushed through Ascension; they were alpha, beta, and power players who did all the content and are tired of waiting for there to be enough other people against whom and with whom to PvP regularly. Obviously my experiences are skewed by my preferences in play--just as yours are. But these forums are only a slice of the pie, and making predictions based on your interpretation of other people's characters inferred from their posts is not logical nor are they thus foregone conclusions.

Additionally, I don't think the complaints necessarily come only from or even primarily from the people who have bypassed game content--if you take the time to read their posts, most of the people who have done this already played through the content. Clearly acknowledged unnecessary timesinks weren't part of the developers' plans, or there wouldn't have been a change to the infusion quest--and there certainly isn't a check for level when you speak to the Ritual High Priest, which would have been easily programmed.

I only request that you stop making generalizations that are vague and not driven by empirical data, and that you stop making insulting inferences about the intelligence and objectives of people who have chosen to play the game in a different manner from you.

Keesa

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Hotlanta

Pink Fluffy Bunniez

Mo/Me

11 Jun 2005 at 03:58 - 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhineasToke
I am playing an average of about 5 hours a day with my Guild. I (we actually) help anywhere from 1-3 new players each day. From simple questions to leading them to the next town, to actually helping with quests. Not once have I felt abused. I have found that those genuinely needing help aren't abusive or demanding. And the more players we help, the better is is for everyone.

I am so tired of players (asking questions) being harassed as noobs, or being told by the player they asked that "I only plays for myself, noob". The player last night stated that (they) wern't getting help from their guild members, and most were high levels too busy to be bothered. It bothers me that guilds will recruit for quanity and "dues" but won't be mature enough to help the members.


Thanks for listening.
That is truly a shame, and I didn't mean to impugn the player you helped. I just find it odd that a guild would help someone make it to Augury Rock and just abandon him or her... what was the point in rushing them in the first place?

My concern, however, is that there are people with legitimate desire and ability to Ascend prior to level 20, and that their legitimacy is overshadowed by these horror stories. For me, half the enjoyment of this game is being able to enjoy PvP with my guild on my main character, and the other half is proceeding leisurely through the storyline without feeling the level pressure the way I have in WoW, SWG, and pretty much every other MMO I've played. Since I can't afford a level grind right now, and need to be able to play more casually, this game has my interest for a long time to come.

And I don't think my enjoyment of the game the way I choose to play it has negatively impacted anyone else.

The Pope

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 04:25 - 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by primal98
(okay I didnt read all 4 pages, so if this point came out, sorry ^_^") Hmmmm well while I dont care at all whether a lvl 3 gets there or not, we can all agree that in a way it does hurt the game.... in the PVP version :P

Guild A needs competent Monks but has none.
Guild B has worked up its Monks.

Guild A rushes a Monk, provides him the funds to unlock all skills.... chango-presto- the person now can create a Monk in PVP with any skills they need

Rinse Was and Repeat

So well.. it kind of hurts the pvp aspect of the game :/

~prime
Guild B would be happy that they won a fair match rather than just did a mindless ganking.

Verbose

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 16:22 - 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesa
Hey, now... you ridiculed my demographic. All I did was wear the label you assigned me.
Actually, you chose the label. I merely set it out there as a possibility. Perhaps you should not assume quite as much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesa
I don't think people are as cookie cutter as these forums tend to make them out to be. The people I know who are tired of the game weren't rushed through Ascension; they were alpha, beta, and power players who did all the content and are tired of waiting for there to be enough other people against whom and with whom to PvP regularly. Obviously my experiences are skewed by my preferences in play--just as yours are. But these forums are only a slice of the pie, and making predictions based on your interpretation of other people's characters inferred from their posts is not logical nor are they thus foregone conclusions.

Additionally, I don't think the complaints necessarily come only from or even primarily from the people who have bypassed game content--if you take the time to read their posts, most of the people who have done this already played through the content. Clearly acknowledged unnecessary timesinks weren't part of the developers' plans, or there wouldn't have been a change to the infusion quest--and there certainly isn't a check for level when you speak to the Ritual High Priest, which would have been easily programmed.
Already exhausted the content. Yes. Precisely. And why, exactly, should a game developer design for the small segment of players who will purposefully exhaust content early? Especially given the known drawbacks of doing so (previously stated)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesa
I only request that you stop making generalizations that are vague and not driven by empirical data, and that you stop making insulting inferences about the intelligence and objectives of people who have chosen to play the game in a different manner from you.
They are not generalizations, there is quite a lot of data to support the link between "power gaming" and the costs to development, and the only people who are insulted about something are those who believe (or fears) it applies to them.

All of which is quite beside the ultimate point -- there is demonstrable damage to games such as this that comes as a direct result of early exhaustion of or deliberate bypassing of content.

You asked to give examples. I have done so. If you wish to examine the granularity of them, or to understand them in the context of game development, as opposed to a strictly layman or consumer perspective, I would be happy to provide you with any number of links.

However, from your comments thusfar, it is difficult to conclude anything other than this -- you seek not to understand the reasons, only to know them well enough to try and discredit them or justify your disinterest in them.

Hardly grounds for enlightening discussion, is it?

Keesa

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Hotlanta

Pink Fluffy Bunniez

Mo/Me

11 Jun 2005 at 17:12 - 89
I would love to see those links. The reason is because nothing you've said is born out by the majority of the players with whom I associate nor has it proven true of any of the games I've played, the majority of which have been on servers with people who fall into both of the categories you seem to abhor. In fact, those servers tend to have players who make their own content once they've exhausted the storyline. So I'm really curious now to see the other side of the fence.

But please understand my frustration. Your initial complaint was that people who bypass content ruin the game. I said those people actually had exhausted game content previously. Then you said that people who exhaust game content "early" ruin the game.

I can only assume that there is a particular treadmill to which you believe people should adhere and which is supported by links to which you have access, but don't wish to share because you consider me antagonistic... just because I don't agree with you and do not find your manner conducive to amicable debate.

But withholding information isn't going to solve anything, whereas providing it certainly could prove those of us who believe our pursuit of gaming in the fashion we love isn't hurting anyone else wrong. You might just open some eyes and change some viewpoints.

ReclinerOfRage

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 17:50 - 90
People who ascend at level 3 obviously don't care about PvE in the first place. It doesn't affect your game in any way, unless you PVP. If you PVP then shame on you for asking for even more grind.

I've already finished the game twice, and have barely unlocked half of all the skills I want to use in PVP. The first time going through was alright, if a bit bland. Now I'm just hating every second I have to step inside another mission or explorable area.

I'm not going to waste another 200+ hours grouping with some idiot noobs who want to watch the cutscenes, do all the bonus missions, and fight every single ****ing spider that pops out of the floor, just so I can test out a few skills I might want to run for PVP in the future.

If they make it difficult to ascend, it will be my personal mission to make it hell for every single PvE noob I group with. I'm going to run straight for cutscenes so it skips your precious bonus missions, not pick up the millionth blue staff or stack of bones that drop, so you can look at it but not have it. I will make it a point to spoil the plot for every player that won't skip cutscenes. I won't res you if you were too dumb to figure out how the aggro circle works. I will abandon the group mid-mission, or run off for a 15 minute break while holding the relic, ghostly hero, or quest item if you waste my time. All this goes especially for all those level 17's still in Gates of Kryta.

Now, ask yourself if you really want to be playing with people like me?

Luggage

Luggage

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

sweden

11 Jun 2005 at 17:57 - 91
http://www.planetquake.com/qdq/

Luggage

Luggage

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

sweden

11 Jun 2005 at 17:58 - 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReclinerOfRage
Now, ask yourself if you really want to be playing with people like me?
Nope - but they don't have to change anything in the game for that to be true.

Zoolooman

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ectos And Shards

11 Jun 2005 at 18:09 - 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diplo
At the end of the day, though, these people are really only cheating themselves by lessening their own experience and enjoyment of the game.
My level 3 ascended monk/mesmer was extremely enjoyable, and remains so to this day.

Verbose

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 18:50 - 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReclinerOfRage
People who ascend at level 3 obviously don't care about PvE in the first place. It doesn't affect your game in any way, unless you PVP. If you PVP then shame on you for asking for even more grind.

I've already finished the game twice, and have barely unlocked half of all the skills I want to use in PVP. The first time going through was alright, if a bit bland. Now I'm just hating every second I have to step inside another mission or explorable area.

I'm not going to waste another 200+ hours grouping with some idiot noobs who want to watch the cutscenes, do all the bonus missions, and fight every single ****ing spider that pops out of the floor, just so I can test out a few skills I might want to run for PVP in the future.

If they make it difficult to ascend, it will be my personal mission to make it hell for every single PvE noob I group with. I'm going to run straight for cutscenes so it skips your precious bonus missions, not pick up the millionth blue staff or stack of bones that drop, so you can look at it but not have it. I will make it a point to spoil the plot for every player that won't skip cutscenes. I won't res you if you were too dumb to figure out how the aggro circle works. I will abandon the group mid-mission, or run off for a 15 minute break while holding the relic, ghostly hero, or quest item if you waste my time. All this goes especially for all those level 17's still in Gates of Kryta.

Now, ask yourself if you really want to be playing with people like me?
Actually, it won't be much of a problem. In about four months, you'll burn out and leave.

Dragonkin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Infront of my pc, UK.

Dragon Guard Alliance

R/Mo

11 Jun 2005 at 19:01 - 95
The only way they'd be able to do something about this is if they made if so you can't enter a mission without having completed the previous mission.

DarrenJasper

DarrenJasper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 19:40 - 96
Pretty hilarious how some people think that those of us who skip the PvE portion of the game will get bored and leave... Those whose focus is PvE are more likely to burn out once they've exhausted the fairly limited campaign. Meanwhile I'll still be doing Tombs, happy as can be.

Verbose

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jun 2005 at 15:43 - 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesa
I would love to see those links. The reason is because nothing you've said is born out by the majority of the players with whom I associate nor has it proven true of any of the games I've played, the majority of which have been on servers with people who fall into both of the categories you seem to abhor. In fact, those servers tend to have players who make their own content once they've exhausted the storyline. So I'm really curious now to see the other side of the fence.

But please understand my frustration. Your initial complaint was that people who bypass content ruin the game. I said those people actually had exhausted game content previously. Then you said that people who exhaust game content "early" ruin the game.

I can only assume that there is a particular treadmill to which you believe people should adhere and which is supported by links to which you have access, but don't wish to share because you consider me antagonistic... just because I don't agree with you and do not find your manner conducive to amicable debate.

But withholding information isn't going to solve anything, whereas providing it certainly could prove those of us who believe our pursuit of gaming in the fashion we love isn't hurting anyone else wrong. You might just open some eyes and change some viewpoints.
Very well... here are the locations in which you can easily find confirmation of what I have stated to you in this thread. Mind you, you're going to need to actually READ all of these and have some ability to extrapolate from sets of information.

What do I mean by this? I mean that I am not going to spoon-feed you with links to exactly what I'm telling you is true. Instead, I'm going to give you the locations in which you can find them and, if you're really interested in confirming the truth of what I'm telling you, you will spend the time to find them. Otherwise, you'll just come up with some form of 'thatisn'tproofandsoiwinyouloseneenerneener'.

General Industry News, Trends, etc.
www.gamasutra.com

Industry Specific Outlet
http://www.igda.org/

The Daedalus Project
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/

Analysis of games and those who play them
http://socialstudygames.com/

Raph Koster's Essays (If you don't know who this is, you may as well give up here...)
http://www.legendmud.org/raph/gaming/comments.html

Let me know how you progress.

Mordread

Mordread

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jun 2005 at 18:30 - 98
Must there be a thread trying to nerf everything? Assuming most of these are people on their second or third character, I see nothing wrong with it. If they have guildies/friends willing to run them through missions so be it. Running a low lvl toon through to Ascension, giving them good items or money so they can lvl quicker is very common in these genres. For example in SWG my main was a rich jedi so when I created a secondary Doctor the toon already had all the best armor, meds, buffs, etc at her disposal. All of this stuff I had earned throughout playing which allowed her to lvl faster and be in harder zones then other toons. Is that not fair?

Kazahana

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

SoCal

W/E

12 Jun 2005 at 18:43 - 99
its perfectly fair they are only cheapening thier gaming experience if its thier first time and they are getting ran through but if its thier second or third time they deserve to be able to do it i took my third character to the frozen gate then used henches to run to sanctum cay and hopped the ocean and was ascended just joining pugs by lvl 14 but i got lucky cause i was a monk so i got chosen easier than a lvl 14 of some other class

i did get some complements about my healing someone said "for a lvl 14 you heal better than most of the lvl 20 people i play with" they might have just been being kind but it made my day

Icarium

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Calgary Ab Canada

Hell Bringers Clan [HELL]

Me/N

12 Jun 2005 at 22:58 - 100
Very interesting thread, i do agree that lvl 3's getting to the forge then owning in the lover level arena's is a bit unethical, and im sure very frustrating to those that play against them. However, ascending quickly, for whatever "reason" it seems to me dosent matter and shouldn't matter to anybody else. If it offends you THAT much . . . then maybe its your pride/ego you need to tone down? or if nothing else CHOOSE to ignore it, perhaps by NOT focusing on it you can let go of it. Now to the statements made by Verbose about how ascention rushing could ruin the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbose
There is also the fact that bypassing intended content places additional pressure upon the game developer to produce and release content faster than the planned schedule -- which contributes to everything from buggy releases to poorly planned ones.... all of which great increases the cost of maintaining the game over time as well as great reducing the degree to which content can be relied upon as a means of maintaining equalibrum of the game over its planned life cycle.
I really can understand what you getting at here, but i fail to see how it relates to Guild Wars, i spent alot of time on those links you posted (and really enjoyed them i might add) but the info dosent apply here.

In a "pay for play" system you bet they dont want people rushing through the content as if they did why would they maintain there subscriptions, if they saw everything in a week? Thats why they rely on the "level grind" to keep people interested while they create new content. As my title says Guild Wars has no subscription fee's , therefore the "pressure" to keep the people enertained is greatly relieved. there have been tons of posts relating to why a person would rush through the game, everyone i have seen is perfectly fine/reasonable. I will most certainly rush my last 2 toon through, as the story is good, its not "that" good Oh and i did notice that everything i saw on those links was specificaly for the "pay for play" type games

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jun 2005 at 23:54 - 101
Normally I'm very much against powerleveling in MMOs. I think in a party situation where you're dependant on other people. People who exploit the process don't have the same seriousness as those who are trying to level up legitimately.

Having said that, this game was almost designed for people to not have to do any grinding are really makes it easy for people to exploit the system. I really don't feel the same dependace on people and very often use henchmen. So unless this was a flaw on Anets part...who cares. It's not going to change the way I play...because the journey is supposed to be fun. As far as PvP i keep hearing that skill is what makes a great warrior.

Verbose

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

13 Jun 2005 at 01:20 - 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium
I really can understand what you getting at here, but i fail to see how it relates to Guild Wars, i spent alot of time on those links you posted (and really enjoyed them i might add) but the info dosent apply here.
I disagree. Here's why -- you are assuming that because they are not using a monthly subscription model, that they have no interest in gaining the net result of a per month revenue stream.

I submit to you that they very clearly intend to receive that same net result (more, actually), they simply intend to receive it six months out and every six months (or thereabout) thereafter via 'chapters' which, conveniently enough, are (from all acounts) going to be priced at about $50.

$50.00 / 6 = $8.33 a month

The difference in cost between that $8.33 a month and the $12.00+ you see other MMOS charge can be neatly explained by instancing and use of repeatative content (e.g., same/similar models, same/similar textures, lowering cost of development thereby, etc.).

However, in order to make this work, they have to:

1) Keep you playing until the chapter is ready,
2) Keep you interested enough to buy the chapter.

Needless to say, the design considerations and mechanics of MMO's in general are just as compelling. Actually, you could say they are more so... however, ArenaNet has badly mistaken the market by pushing themselves as a 'no per month charge' and by assuming that reusability of content is something that is going to support them over the life of their offering -- but that's another discussion for another time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium
In a "pay for play" system you bet they dont want people rushing through the content as if they did why would they maintain there subscriptions, if they saw everything in a week? Thats why they rely on the "level grind" to keep people interested while they create new content. As my title says Guild Wars has no subscription fee's , therefore the "pressure" to keep the people enertained is greatly relieved. there have been tons of posts relating to why a person would rush through the game, everyone i have seen is perfectly fine/reasonable. I will most certainly rush my last 2 toon through, as the story is good, its not "that" good Oh and i did notice that everything i saw on those links was specificaly for the "pay for play" type games
As mentioned above, this isn't a true change in how things are done. It is merely a clever marketing ploy.... one which, while successful on some superficial levels, is already showing signs of seriously endangering their longevity.

Any time you have players feeling justified in exhausting content well before the intended life, you have a problem. This goes for replayability as well as the first pass.

Nazutul

Nazutul

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

Or Die Trying

Mo/W

13 Jun 2005 at 01:57 - 103
Being able to Ascend at level 3 is a bit crappy. But as for the Lornar's Pass runs, if anyone can make that, more power to 'em. The Lornar's Pass run is anything but easy.

asdar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

13 Jun 2005 at 10:44 - 104
There's where you're wront Nazutul. It takes about 15 minutes and is the easiest thing in the game.

I won't give the secret recipe but I know it. A level 20 War/Mo can make it pretty easily. It might take a few practice runs, but easy ever after.

They sell them in Beacon's.

As far as the no fee thing, they were pretty up front about the way they intend to do that.

Not only that but every MMO out there charges $50 and has expansions every 6-9 months. Or at least the players hope they have the expansions and they have to pay the monthly fee on top of that.

They have to make the exansions good enough that people will buy them, and they have to make it so one expansion doesn't introduce items that'll ruin the game and their revenue stream.

That's what I like about this system.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

13 Jun 2005 at 11:16 - 105
If A.Net wants to force us to go through the story many times to get all the skills unlocked, then I am quite glad every time someone beats the piece of shit system and goes strait to ascension from level 3! although... how do you guys beat your mirrors? that would seem tough.

Mimu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

England, UK

Call of Destiny [call]

13 Jun 2005 at 11:20 - 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue
If A.Net wants to force us to go through the story many times to get all the skills unlocked, then I am quite glad every time someone beats the piece of shit system and goes strait to ascension from level 3! although... how do you guys beat your mirrors? that would seem tough.
Empathy, strafe.

I have not ascended at level 3 yet, however I am going to be attempting it quite soon.

Edit: If you have not yet seen this..it is worth watching.

Raiddinn Beatdropper

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

13 Jun 2005 at 12:37 - 107
The first time I went through the game with my Wiz/Mez I took a wrong turn without having any previous knowledge of where I am *supposed* to go.

I went LA, to Hot Springs, To Temple of Ages just wandering around with NPCs.

After that I wanted to wander some more and my choices were either West or South, and I picked south, and I went down to the river city, and sanctum cay.

Ill tell you what too, there is an armor crafter at sanctum cay for casters, and I was tanking way better than warriors when I actually started back over from LA with the missions after that when someone told me, hey you went the wrong way...

I partially agree with being sad to see a lvl 2 in droknars forge asking for money saying she is naked though... If you want to get a lvl 2 to droknars or something stupid like that, ok spamming that you got a lvl 2 there is kinda funny, spamming that you want money from me because you are lvl 2 and you got there is kinda sad though.

If you want to shortcut everything great, just keep it to yourself please.

Tsunamii Starshine

salja Wachi

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Chicago

the Bleeding Edge

N/Mo

13 Jun 2005 at 14:50 - 108
who cares abuot the lower level arenas? they are just for fun amyway you do not get fame, nor any other reward other then beatint 4 other players senseless.

if a player wast to try and ascend a level 3 who are yo uto say he should not???

you spend your 50 bucks they way you wnat to and he will spend his the way he wants to.

if Anet did nto want this to happen they could have made it so you cannot get to certain areas withough being a certain level. they have not done so, this means that you can just shut this forum down as being useless

Divinitys Creature

Divinitys Creature

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Somewhere between the Real World and Tyria ;P

The Gothic Embrace [Goth]

13 Jun 2005 at 16:16 - 109
It would be a good way to level, since the mobs are so much higher in level.

Zodiac

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Amicus Reinassance [AR]

Mo/E

13 Jun 2005 at 16:41 - 110
So far the only valid argument I have seen is that this imbalances low level arenas.

If they really want to close the loophole then simply place armor level restriction on particular arenas and downgrade them automatically. I really hate level restrictions on items. Or fix the path so you can't use a W/Mo to run through. Heck, make a gate there that needs time to open will stop all the runners. Or, have mechanism that needs more than one person to get through, like the Across the Wall quest in pre-searing (why aren't this kind of stuff in the rest of the game?)

I personally don't care about the low level arenas. If someone wants to cheat and get high level armor/skills to get their virtual genital stroked in the low level arenas, all the power to them.

As far as skipping the storyline goes, truth to the matter is, I highly doubt anyone would do that with their first character. Even if they do, who cares if someone has ubah items in PvE?

lightblade

lightblade

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Etereal Guard

Me/Mo

13 Jun 2005 at 16:45 - 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedsia
Am I the only one who think tihs is totally wrong, cheesy and should be stopped? There's a reason there's a PVP template. If people want to be instant 20, there it is. Ya I get my own copy of the game each time I walk out of town, but it still sickens me to hear of these characters leeching their way to Ascenion trials at character levels as low as 3.

I did post a complaint about this to the GW support and was told to post on a forum, so here I am Here's what I offically had to say:

As a PvE primarily player, I'm quite distressed by the fact many people have found a loophole to Ascending. I'm hearing of numerous reports of EXTREMELY low level characters, like lvl 3s being at Ascension trials. I'm also concerned that players are paying higher level characters to escourt them through Lornar's Pass to purchase level 20 armor at low levels.

Ascension is supposed to mean something. And it cheapens the game to have these loopholes. Can it be made so that you have to ACTUALLY Ascend to get to Droknars. Close the pass please. And it ruins the Pve enviroment that low levels are getting this stuff so early and benefitting from friends carrying them to the desert. Can there be a level requirement to Ascension trials, and check the entire party, not just the leader. People are slipping through by joining parties and leeching




Is this really asking too much. I mean, it really does cheapen the play in my opinion, to know that I spent hours going through the game as it was meant to be played and someone else can come along and just skip through it all and get the same benefit. Kinda takes the importance out of Ascenion in my opinion.

I don't think they went pass Lornar's Pass to get to Droknar's Forge. Lornar's Pass is still hard even for 8 lvl 20s, let alone only 6...

Creston

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

13 Jun 2005 at 19:07 - 112
I'm of two minds on this issue.

If someone pays to have someone else rush him through Lornar's pass, so he can get to Roknar's and get the end game armor, then uses that armor to own the Ascalon arenas, then yes, I would say that that is unfair and that that person is actually quite sad. This is presumably the same sort of person who uses an aimbot in CS, then at the end proclaims how 733T they are.

I mean, if someone took a lvl 20 character into the arena and fights lvl 8 characters (not sure if this is even possible or not), we'd consider it unfair, what's the difference with the person who uses a pretty much unbeatable armor for that level?

However, if someone wants to rush to Droknar's to get the armor so running through the game is less of a hassle your second or third (or more) time through, I fail to see how this has any effect on anyone AT ALL.

As for people ascending lvl 3 characters, shrug, I fail to see why they do so, but again, how does this affect YOUR enjoyment of the PvE game? You can talk about "well, it cheapens my reward" all you want, but do you complain that your colleague makes 5000 dollars more, too?

Some people will chose to do different things. Actually, I think the idea of trying to rush to Droknar's Forge to get the top end armor is pretty smart, and I might try it myself.

Creston

Yamat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

San Diego, USA

13 Jun 2005 at 19:51 - 113
The low level arenas are the first time new people to the game will PvP. If they are getting mashed in 15 seconds, they may dump the game and not come back.

That's not good for the game... the more people, the better.

IxChel

IxChel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

http://sof-guild.com/

Servants of Fortuna

Mo/R

13 Jun 2005 at 20:12 - 114
If I've run through all of the areas with one character, there is no reason why I should be forced through the grind with a second. I should be able to teleport to anywhere my other toon has been to.

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

13 Jun 2005 at 20:13 - 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac
I personally don't care about the low level arenas. If someone wants to cheat and get high level armor/skills to get their virtual genital stroked in the low level arenas, all the power to them.
You do not care, but that doesn't mean other people don't. Realize that this game doesn't cater to only you. Many people have expressed concerns over the "griefing" that occurs in the lower level arenas. Frankly, if you do not care about something, then why should anyone care about your opinion on the subject?

Keesa

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Hotlanta

Pink Fluffy Bunniez

Mo/Me

13 Jun 2005 at 20:13 - 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue
If A.Net wants to force us to go through the story many times to get all the skills unlocked, then I am quite glad every time someone beats the piece of shit system and goes strait to ascension from level 3! although... how do you guys beat your mirrors? that would seem tough.
Backfire, Healing Breeze, strafe. (I saw Empathy was mentioned but this is what I used at 14 and what a guildmate used on his 3rd char at 4). Other techniques involve tricking the AI into using skills that are worthless if you don't do A or B, but I don't know as much about those.

Miss Puddles

Miss Puddles

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

Shiverpeaks Search And Rescue [Lost]

Me/

13 Jun 2005 at 20:20 - 117
while i agree that it shouldn't matter how people are playing the game on their own time, it does bug me to end up grouped with someone who obviously had other people rush them through the game and have no idea what they need to be doing. it does affect other players who spent time levelling and working hard on their chars.
i just started my second char, expecting the game to be identical as playing it with my last. it's not, it's still a different game to me. i don't want to rush through and miss out on new experiences, and i do think that people who rush through are missing out, but it's their loss to take after all.

kkl

kkl

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Fool of Fate (FOF)

E/R

13 Jun 2005 at 20:39 - 118
Well.. replying to the original poster (cuz i didn't spend all the time to read all reply.. i just wanna give my 0.02gp)
Instead of closing the pass... when someone might just want to sight seeing the place..
i guess what AN should done is... put lvl/attribute requirement on armors too..
i mean.. just like weapons and off hand items in the game.. they reqire certain point of attribute to use it... a lvl 3 can be holding a max dmg fiery dragon with a max armor shield.. but he/she can't get the effect cuz his swordmanship is 2 and his tactic is 3...... and if u can push your lvl 10 char to have a swordmanship of 8 to use it.. fine... he will lack other attribute...
so.. i guess all it is needed is .. add a certain requirement on the armors... will fix that problem... that just my 0.02gp thoughts

Zodiac

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Amicus Reinassance [AR]

Mo/E

14 Jun 2005 at 00:30 - 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclair
You do not care, but that doesn't mean other people don't. Realize that this game doesn't cater to only you. Many people have expressed concerns over the "griefing" that occurs in the lower level arenas. Frankly, if you do not care about something, then why should anyone care about your opinion on the subject?
You care, but that doesn't mean other people do. Realize that this game doesnt' cater to only you. Many people have expressed non-concerns over the "griefing" that occurs in the lower level arenas. Frankly, if you care about something while others don't, why should those that don't hear your opinion on the subject?

See how I can turn that whole thing around. It's a non-argument.

It's true that I don't care about the low level arenas, but I do care about suggestions such as placing arbitary restrictions on items. If there are legitimate ways to get to those higher items through the pass, there's no reason not to allow that. We just have to make sure people actually work for them instead of paying a W/Mo to run through the pass.

And I do realize there are people who care, that's why I offered my suggestions on how to fix the problem. I simply stated my opinion. Take it or leave it. Your post, unfortunately, was total troll material.

So again, say no to arbitary restrictions, say yes to fixing the pass so it's not trivial to run through. If the pass takes a group of really well coordinated team of 5 high levels to fight through and escort one person, we won't have nearly as much concern.

Oh here's another idea, have a point somewhere in the pass that you have a mechanism like the White Mantle eye mish where the whole team needs to be "cleansed" (read: buffed) in order to get pass it. Sure it's work, but I would much rather see this kind of solutions personally.

salja Wachi

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Chicago

the Bleeding Edge

N/Mo

14 Jun 2005 at 01:43 - 120
i am positive the develpoers of the game knew what they were doing when they put in lornars pass and the mobs in it. if a level 4 can get through good for him.

leave it alone