Why do Signets of Capture cost skill points?

Granamyr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/

I still have not heard a good argument in favor of this. I would think ANet would want you out there capturing skills instead of buying them. The only reason I can come up with for making Signet of Captures (SoC) cost skill points is to preserve the xp grind. Why would anyone want to do that? People hate the xp grind and it is contradictory to the PR statements about Guild Wars.

How would making SoC's skill-point free hurt the game? Someone explain this to me. If it can't be explained, tell me why the fine folk at ANet haven't changed it.

Caco-Cola

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

College Station, TX

Kansas City Hotsteppers. Hawt!

Umm...

Duh, they cost skill points cause you're getting a skill with them.

Ninlawen

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

W/E

That would be pretty fun, but you'd have people going into missions with nothing but signets of capture so they can grab every skill from every boss because they refuse to spend their skill points. I think free SoCs would require a semi-revamp of the skill acquiring system.

sleazeh

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

good from far, far from good

Gaming Continuum

Mo/Me

I'm not a big grinder, and I still usually have more skill points available than I am able to spend. It's a slight problem if one does the secondary profession switch, and needs to pick up a large amount of skills in a short time. Otherwise, the only "problem", if you can call it that, with SoC is porting to a town and buying one. And that's not really much of a issue..at least in my experience.

And the logic seems consistent that a skill point is spent every time a skill is aquired, whether through SoC or other means.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

Skill points for SoC's?! Why are Skill Points in Guild Wars at all?!

Granamyr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/

Quote:
Duh, they cost skill points cause you're getting a skill with them.
Technically, you're not getting a skill when you buy it.

Quote:
you'd have people going into missions with nothing but signets of capture so they can grab every skill from every boss because they refuse to spend their skill points.
What's wrong with that? It's not like every boss has a wide diversity of skills. Furthermore, people going into explorable areas or re-doing missions to find bosses with skills is the type of gameplay I think ANet would want. Why not encourage it? How is forcing people to xp grind for skill points a better situation than the one you or I described above?

Making the SoC skill-point free is essentially making skill capturing like skill questing. There are plenty of quests out there that reward you with skills for killing a boss and they don't cost you skill points. Why should the SoC be any different? It's the same amount of "work".

Quote:
It's a slight problem if one does the secondary profession switch, and needs to pick up a large amount of skills in a short time.
So why not fix the "slight problem"? There are no drawbacks to making the SoC skill-point free. Why not do it? Again, someone tell me what I'm missing here.

Quote:
Skill points for SoC's?! Why are Skill Points in Guild Wars at all?!
Well that's the slippery slope argument to my point and I can't argue against it. I'm not endorsing it mind you but if they did away with skill points, I wouldn't complain.

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

It'd be awesome if SoC's didn't take Skill Points. You might want to limit how many SoC's you can put on your bar (no more than 3, maybe), but other than that, I don't see how it'd be a real problem. You still have to kill the bosses. And the bosses usually require a little bit of work to reach.

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

Why do Signets of Capture(Looting) require skill points? Well because Arena Net made it so. Deal with it.

Evan The Cursed

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekkira
Why do Signets of Capture(Looting) require skill points? Well because Arena Net made it so. Deal with it.
Sad but true.

Phaedrus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granamyr
Technically, you're not getting a skill when you buy it.


What's wrong with that? It's not like every boss has a wide diversity of skills. Furthermore, people going into explorable areas or re-doing missions to find bosses with skills is the type of gameplay I think ANet would want. Why not encourage it? How is forcing people to xp grind for skill points a better situation than the one you or I described above?

Making the SoC skill-point free is essentially making skill capturing like skill questing. There are plenty of quests out there that reward you with skills for killing a boss and they don't cost you skill points. Why should the SoC be any different? It's the same amount of "work".


So why not fix the "slight problem"? There are no drawbacks to making the SoC skill-point free. Why not do it? Again, someone tell me what I'm missing here.
The signet of capture system used to be effective for two reasons:

1) If you wanted a powerful non-elite ability, you still had to pay for its slot instead of potentially getting it for free later in the game. In order to capture this skill you still had to have the timing and skill to pull the capture off. Thus no level 5s with meteor.

2) If you wanted elites, you needed to have a modicrum of talent to get them. That's been completely done-away with, so now I hear more idiots than ever glowing about how "omg i totally have ubar <skill> it pwns all".

I don't understand your aversion to having signets cost skill points. Technically you *are* getting a skill. When you use this skill you permanently gain another. Why doesn't signet of capture cost one when you buy it and one when you capture then?

The poster who said people would start stocking too many signets was dead-on. People are already taking capture instead of resurrect because of skill greed. I'd hate to group the elementalist who has four signets and four spells--one of which is an attunement, one of which is a glyph. You can't check that prior to entering an area or mission. It's bad enough you can carry more than one signet at a time (I liked it better when you could only stock one).

Frankly, ANet wants it to be hard to create the perfect PvP character through PvE. That's not unreasonable. Currently PvE characters can find weapons superior to those offered through PvP creation. They can also BUY upgrades and runes without unlocking them, which means your PvE character can have a superior arsenal. Currently the ONLY limitation on this is "unlocked skills". If a PvE character could (without any limitation such as skill points) go capture every pokemon for every class (sorry, I meant skill) the entire premise of the PvP character would be demolished. People would be willing to do this just so they could use their black-dyed character in the tombs, let alone because they don't have to grind for items--just skills, which are FAR easier to find.

[ ]

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

"Frankly, ANet wants it to be hard to create the perfect PvP character through PvE"

That's the only way to make any kind of PvP character. At least one that isn't a pre-made template.

"If a PvE character could (without any limitation such as skill points) go capture every pokemon for every class (sorry, I meant skill) the entire premise of the PvP character would be demolished."

How do you figure? The only reason to play a PvE character is to unlock runes, skills, and item modifiers. Allowing you to unlock every skill via a free SoC would give people greater reason to play PvP characters, not less. If I want to unlock every skill (in a reasonable amt of time) I need to use 3 of 4 character slots just for PvE characters. This means I can only have 1 PvP character at any given time. So if I decide my team needs another Elementalist or Warrior instead of my Monk, I have to delete my PvP Monk and create whatever it was that was needed.

Right now, the PvE to PvP concept is kinda lame. I should be able to acquire all PvP items with just 1 PvE toon. I shouldn't need to create PvE toons to unlock skills, just to have to later delete them for PvP characters.

heeman

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I think Elite should cost skill points and Normal skill shouldn't cost skill points.
This is only when you are using SOC. WHy would you use SOC for normal skills when u can buy it easily? It takes big effort to capture skill anyway. It will promote people to use SOC more for normal skills. However, if you capture elite skill it will take your skill points away. Elite should be difficult to get anyway.

Dreamsmith

Dreamsmith

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Minnesota

Beguine Guild [BGN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granamyr
Technically, you're not getting a skill when you buy it.
Technically, you are getting a skill when you buy it. All signets are skills. This is as true of SoC as it is for Dolyak Signet, Signet of Judgement, etc.

Phaedrus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
How do you figure? The only reason to play a PvE character is to unlock runes, skills, and item modifiers. Allowing you to unlock every skill via a free SoC would give people greater reason to play PvP characters, not less. If I want to unlock every skill (in a reasonable amt of time) I need to use 3 of 4 character slots just for PvE characters. This means I can only have 1 PvP character at any given time. So if I decide my team needs another Elementalist or Warrior instead of my Monk, I have to delete my PvP Monk and create whatever it was that was needed.

Right now, the PvE to PvP concept is kinda lame. I should be able to acquire all PvP items with just 1 PvE toon. I shouldn't need to create PvE toons to unlock skills, just to have to later delete them for PvP characters.
The point is, your PvE character has access to more items, runes, and upgrades. Your PvE character can use items he has not yet unlocked. Your PvE character can change his subclass as many times as he wants, but every time you change him you do not lose his runes, upgrades, or other items you have bought or found for him. PvP characters can be made with no hassle, but they are somewhat limited. While you may have unlocked a superior vigor rune and thus can put one on any PvP character, You cannot have multiple sets of eq for your PvP character with multiple rune configurations. You can grab weapons out of storage, but they will not be customized--nor can you customize them, nor would you want to since PvP chars are generally throwaways.

PvE characters are potentially far more powerful, especially if you are clever enough to employ weapon and armor sets. Giving them yet another huge bonus over PvP characters defeats the point of having a quick way to create a PvP char.

[ ]

CtrlAltDel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Ohio

Brotherhood of Havoc

Mo/Me

you pay a skill point because you are getting a skill

thats like saying that when you go to the skill trainers, they should just give you all of the skills they can train w/o it costing you skill points

rarely do i hear people sitting on here complaining about having too few skill points...

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

PvP characters can use any of the armor sets a PvE character can. Except for the really expensive ones.

As for customized weapons... so what if it isn't customized? Customization is pretty insignificant for 4 out of 6 professions.

And superior runes are getting to the point of being so cheap that not having unlocked it is nearly irrelevent. You can get just about any Superior rune but Vigor and Absorption for like 20k or less. It doesn't take too long to make 20k gold. I think you can apply any rune you've got in storage to a PvP toon. And you can salvage the armor after, to recover the rune, I think.

Dumachum

Dumachum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

na

R/E

You can also get skills for free by doing quests but, oh wait, that's still too much for the "competetive PvPers".

If you absolutely can't tolerate what Guild Wars is now without complaining about "the grind"/UAS/skillpoints I reccomend you the idea of "shutting the **** up" and starting a Tic-Tac-Toe guild. You may find that game features all the minimalistic features and simplicity your kind are obviously looking for.

Phaedrus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
PvP characters can use any of the armor sets a PvE character can. Except for the really expensive ones.
They can have one piece for each slot. You can't load a PvP character with four sets of armor. Many clever players stock multiple sets of armor for use against different team layouts and situations. This isn't possible with PvP chars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
As for customized weapons... so what if it isn't customized? Customization is pretty insignificant for 4 out of 6 professions.
Not so. If you find it insignificant, that's your business. Flexibility is king in PvP. A more convincing argument: "most wand and staff users don't rely on melee/ranged damage." True, but many builds rely on dealing certain types of damage to trigger effects, as well as dealing certain types of damage to gain bonuses from rituals and enchantments. So please, no generalities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
And superior runes are getting to the point of being so cheap that not having unlocked it is nearly irrelevent. You can get just about any Superior rune but Vigor and Absorption for like 20k or less. It doesn't take too long to make 20k gold. I think you can apply any rune you've got in storage to a PvP toon. And you can salvage the armor after, to recover the rune, I think.
Try it, then let us know. I'm not willing to believe ANet would leave so glaring a hole open.

[ ]

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Quote:
They can have one piece for each slot. You can't load a PvP character with four sets of armor. Many clever players stock multiple sets of armor for use against different team layouts and situations. This isn't possible with PvP chars.
So delete your PvP character and choose different armor.
Quote:
Not so. If you find it insignificant, that's your business. Flexibility is king in PvP. A more convincing argument: "most wand and staff users don't rely on melee/ranged damage." True, but many builds rely on dealing certain types of damage to trigger effects, as well as dealing certain types of damage to gain bonuses from rituals and enchantments. So please, no generalities.
Okay, there are a few non-Ra/W primaries that will use a weapon if they have that as a secondary. But I'd say no more than 50% of the players in the HoH and random arenas are using weapons. And probably a decent percentage (like 5-10%) of those I see with weapons are doing the Illusionary Weaponry thing.
Quote:
Try it, then let us know. I'm not willing to believe ANet would leave so glaring a hole open.
I just did. I was able to buy a Rune at the conveniently located Rune Trader in the Competition Arena, and apply it to my armor. After pulling money out of storage to pay for it. I wasn't able to salvage that armor, to get the rune back... but that's not that huge. Like I said, getting 20k isn't a big deal... unless you're 'rerolling' every night.

PvE characters are, IMO, largely inferior to PvP characters for PvP. It is far easier to test out new builds with a PvP character. And other than customization for 20% increased damage, there is no difference at all. You just have to grind out XP on a PvE character any time you want to change your spec. I have quit PvPing with my PvE character. Respeccing from farm mode to PvP mode every few hours was becoming a chore.

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

A convenient way to respec is to change your secondary at the desert. You get back all the points you put into your secondary =)

However this only works for secondary skills T_T

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

How about dropping the skill point, but instead making each capture signet cost 5 plat?

Creates a big-ass gold-sink and removes the skillpoint problem in one blow. And, more than likely, creates endless complaints here at GWguru.

Phaedrus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
So delete your PvP character and choose different armor.
Since you're missing the point, I'll illustrate with an example.

Elementalist armor gives bonuses vs. certain elements. An elementalist would be wise to change his or her armor according to the strategy of the other team.

Likewise, why wouldn't a warrior want both +physical and +elemental armor? You can't do that mid-battle with PvP characters. If you don't use that strategy, it's fine...but then, every little bit of strategy helps when trying to hold the Hall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
How about dropping the skill point, but instead making each capture signet cost 5 plat?
Why bother asking people to put effort into capturing elite skills if you're just going to make it increasingly easier? I think that's what the debate is about...some people want zero difficulty, while others are fine with at least some amount.

[ ]

eA-Zaku

eA-Zaku

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

I don't see why there's any discussion on this after the point where someone pointed out that you could simply load up on free SoC's and capture all the skills you needed from bosses.

Granamyr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/

Quote:
I think Elite should cost skill points and Normal skill shouldn't cost skill points. This is only when you are using SOC.
Brilliant compromise, I accept. ANet, make it so.

Quote:
How about dropping the skill point, but instead making each capture signet cost 5 plat?
This is trading one needless grind for another.

I don't see how eliminating this one needless inconvenience gives you all of your skills instantly and somehow makes the game super-easy. Most bosses use about 3 skills (if that) and a majority of those are rather basic such as Ranger bosses using Troll Unguent, Mesmers using Ether Feast, etc. To suggest that someone will be doing mass captures on one boss is ludicrous.

In addition, boss locations and their skill load-out are not well known. Throw in the random spawn factor and the variety of professions and capturing skills rapidly becomes one of the more difficult endeavors of the game. I suggest eliminating the skill point for the SoC and somehow this all becomes instantaneous and easy!? I don't get it.

To remain consistent, you pro-skill pointers would have to argue that quests should cost skill points. Many quests have you go out and kill some boss and you are rewarded with 2 or 3 skills. How is that any different than going out and capturing skills? In fact, it's harder to capture them because you have a limited skill bar.

I would think ANet and the community would want to encourage skill capturing. Why do you think they made the SoC half-price? Did doing so instantly make the process super-easy and instantaneous? Were you all as vehemently opposed to the price reduction as you are to my idea? One reduces gold farming, mine reduces xp farming.

It's win-win and still no one has been able to demonstrate the harm to the game or the community.

Shadow_Avenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Stolen Dreams

R/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninlawen
That would be pretty fun, but you'd have people going into missions with nothing but signets of capture so they can grab every skill from every boss because they refuse to spend their skill points. I think free SoCs would require a semi-revamp of the skill acquiring system.
Not really, basically each skill you use could add to you skill point tally / earned. Once you hit 190 skill points, traders would have to monitor how many SoC you have and how many you could buy. Would not be hard, and I cant see many players actually reaching the 200 skill point cap this side of christmas.

Mystical

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mississauga, Ontario

Inyurface Gaming [IYF]

Remove the skill point and raise the initial price 10 fold. You got your "free" SoC and a big money sink. Deal.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekkira
Why do Signets of Capture(Looting) require skill points? Well because Arena Net made it so. Deal with it.
Wow! That's exactly what an intelligent, informative post looks like. Whipe the fanboyism from your eyes, and take a clearer look at the picture. Skill Points = Grind. Nothing more.

Deagol

Deagol

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Denmark

I'd like to get rid of both skill points *and* skill trainers...

Before Ascension, you should only get signet of capture from quests. Lots of quests, maybe with the first in pre-searing. This would help differentiate characters early in the game.

After Ascension, you would automatically get all skills possesed by any boss you kill. I mean, you would have proven that you could kill it. What additional fun does it give to prove that you can kill it multiple times (and kill other stuff as well multiple times to get skill points)?

Yes, PvE would be shorter. But the content and end result would be the same, and ArenaNet doesn't get a monthly fee, so I don't see their motivation for artifically stretching the content.

codemonkey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

NH

The Wizard Ninjas [TWN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
How about dropping the skill point, but instead making each capture signet cost 5 plat?

Creates a big-ass gold-sink and removes the skillpoint problem in one blow. And, more than likely, creates endless complaints here at GWguru.
This is, by far, the most relavent response to this thread ;-) Not "do away with", but "make different."

Your concept solves a few people's "issues" and fixes the issue where people just have too much cash.

As of now, I rather have the skill point system because I've got extra skill points (as most people do), but I'm getting to the point where I'm level 20 and only have 4 skill points open (Ranger/Monk) and currently I'm skipping "pet" skills hoping to capture better elites or defensive/offensive skills.

And to cover the real issue here: Do not assume that "simply removing" something in a massive multiplayer game will not change game dynamic. That's got ignorance written all over it. A "simple" change like removing skill points from capture signets can and probably will impact more then you will tend to imagine.

CodeMonkey
PS: If SoC's were "Free" of skill points the first thing I would do is only buy the top 8 skills I'd need until I got to LA. Then go get the rest for free from easy kill leaders from the start of post-searing ;-)

Shadow_Avenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Stolen Dreams

R/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by eA-Zaku
I don't see why there's any discussion on this after the point where someone pointed out that you could simply load up on free SoC's and capture all the skills you needed from bosses.
Where you get the free ones? I know of one mission where you get one, but there rest have to be purchase.

It would make the capture / obtaining of skills less of a 'grind' so to speak.
Why not let a player load up on 8 SoC and go capture skills. What difference would it make? How would it be an exploit, simply put it wouldn't be it would be a choice.
The only thing I would add is that they would need to standardise the price, maybe 500 gp each. You could purchase them at a reasonable rate.
You will still have to hunt for stuff and it would make capturing skills for secondard class change after ascention more viable to creating another character.

The only other aspect I would like to have in conjunction with this is more quests for ascended characters, instead of xp rewards, offer a skill point.
Skill point system as stands could still be used to purchase skills.
In fact in some cases its better to use skill point than SoC as the SoC costs more than the trainer is charging to teach the skill.

Granamyr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/

Quote:
Before Ascension, you should only get signet of capture from quests. Lots of quests, maybe with the first in pre-searing. This would help differentiate characters early in the game.
Another great idea. A little extreme but cool nonetheless.

Quote:
And to cover the real issue here: Do not assume that "simply removing" something in a massive multiplayer game will not change game dynamic. That's got ignorance written all over it. A "simple" change like removing skill points from capture signets can and probably will impact more then you will tend to imagine.
It will change the game dynamic for the better. You'll notice I've been pleading for people to show me the harm....not denying that it could exist. Saying that making changes to a game can cause a change in the "game dynamic" (whatever that is) is pointing out the obvious. Show me the harm!

Quote:
If SoC's were "Free" of skill points the first thing I would do is only buy the top 8 skills I'd need until I got to LA. Then go get the rest for free from easy kill leaders from the start of post-searing
And how is this a bad thing? Better yet, how is it worse than the existing methods of skill acquisition?

Deathlord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

PVP Ranger: Does Stuff Fast

XXX

W/Mo

Dude, you don't need a reasonable argument, if you can't figure out why they cost skill points then you need to play this game a little more. SOC can capture both elite and regular skills. Regular skills cost a skill point and money, so why should something that can capture both REGULAR AND ELITE be free? Heck, they're already cheaper than BUYING regular skills, i barely see any logic in making SOC free. If you made SOC's free then you just killed the ENTIRE skill point system, I really fail to see how people that make ideas just for their own purposes deny the mind from all reason.

1. Variety- If EVERYTHING were free then every character would have every skill up to that area. There's no variety or seperate builds because everyone would use the same one since everybody has every skill. If you were limited to 75 out 150 skills then there would be seperate builds atleast.

2. It kills every purpose of trying to level past 20- Who would level past 20 anymore? They'd just go kill a few monsters, get some money, and wala, he has a new elite skill.

3. It WILL change the game dynamic- Yes, the dynamic will definetly change, and it won't be for the better. There will be no competition in the game because there are certain builds that will rule over others, when everybody is availible to these builds since they have most of the skills then then alot of pvp will be based on luck.

4. This is what the game was made for- Even if it isn't a harm, this isn't you're game. Suggestions are things to improve the game, not modify it so much that it has a completely alternate feeling.

5. The system works, what's the point of changing it?- My warrior has beaten the games and played for atleast a hundred or so hours. I've done 90+% of the skills quests and am satifised with the fact I still have about 10 skill points to capture elite/buy regular skills with. I don't have every skill in the game but i'm satisfied. I am sure ANet wanted it this way, variety and competition.

6. If it doesn't make everyone the same, then it'll make a bridge so huge that ANet will be too biased towards rich people. Rich people would end up with every single elite skill just because they can afford it, the poor people hardly have a way of making money, why should we limit them to the point they can't even enjoy the games pvp because a majority of the skills are not availible to them.


You can get alot of people to support this idea, but unless ANET changes ownership or something, it simply won't happen.

Mystical

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mississauga, Ontario

Inyurface Gaming [IYF]

If someone just loaded up on SoCs, they wouldn't be very smart in the first place. You have to kill the boss to get the skills now, so unless you have a party willing to just coast you through the fight, you're defenseless. Not to mention bosses are nearly always a higher level then you are, so it takes everyone in the group to do something, expessially with monk bosses.

codemonkey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

NH

The Wizard Ninjas [TWN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HH-
If someone just loaded up on SoCs, they wouldn't be very smart in the first place. You have to kill the boss to get the skills now, so unless you have a party willing to just coast you through the fight, you're defenseless. Not to mention bosses are nearly always a higher level then you are, so it takes everyone in the group to do something, expessially with monk bosses.
I wager that I can kill 90% of the bosses (non-monk usually) with the Tom the brawler [henchmen], and the fighter [henchmen] with some support from Orion the mage [henchment] and have my skill buildout be: SoC, SoC, SoC, Soc, Raise Dead, Heal Other, Troll Ungent.



Of course I've never even considered more then a single SoC at a time. Must be the way I play the game... I'm usually on the boarder between taking a SoC at all when I know I can use a dual shot, or ignite arrows/poison arrows, instead.

CodeMonkey

Mystical

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mississauga, Ontario

Inyurface Gaming [IYF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by codemonkey
I wager that I can kill 90% of the bosses (non-monk usually) with the Tom the brawler [henchmen], and the fighter [henchmen] with some support from Orion the mage [henchment] and have my skill buildout be: SoC, SoC, SoC, Soc, Raise Dead, Heal Other, Troll Ungent.
That's thinking

What I'm trying to get at is the people who think everyone will get all decked out in SoCs. All 8 slots full with them. They're in for a rude awaking when they can't do anything when that boss's health hasn't dropped below 50% and thier team near dead.

I think the system will work if the skill point is removed and the price set alot higher. Four SoCs and 4 useful skills? If you can afford it and it works, all the more too you.

codemonkey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

NH

The Wizard Ninjas [TWN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HH-
That's thinking

What I'm trying to get at is the people who think everyone will get all decked out in SoCs. All 8 slots full with them. They're in for a rude awaking when they can't do anything when that boss's health hasn't dropped below 50% and thier team near dead.

I think the system will work if the skill point is removed and the price set alot higher. Four SoCs and 4 useful skills? If you can afford it and it works, all the more too you.
Personally I'm all for limiting the SoC's down to one like an Elite skill, since its pretty powerful of a tool (to extract spells from dead bosses). However I am not sure if allowing multiple really brings down game play or hurts others (which is usually my only drive for changing things).

Esp. since the having 4 or more of them makes you much LESS powerful (where elite skills do the opposite). Ok, I change my mine. Don't limit SoC's to one Thanks for allowing me to talk myself through that one...

CodeMonkey

Quintus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekkira
Why do Signets of Capture(Looting) require skill points? Well because Arena Net made it so. Deal with it.
Why do sigils cost 100 Platinum? Why isn't there a Sigil trader? Why is there only one sigil per HoH win? Well because Arena Net made it so. Deal with it.

Oh wait! Anet realised that the old sigil system was inadequate, and they changed it. Just like the current skill point/SoC system is inadequate, and they should change it.

Granamyr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/

I know you guys have been out there capturing skills before so I'm puzzled as to why you think loading up with 8 or even 4 SoC's is a problem. What's the maximum number of skills you've captured off of one boss? I'd say 2 if you were lucky. Most of them don't even have more than 3 and they're usually the common ones.

Deathlord, I know you spent a lot of time on that response but I can't make any sense of it. You might want to go edit again (3rd time's the charm) and quote what you're responding to. I'll assume that English is not your native tongue but I'm multilingual so post in whatever language is easiest for you and I'll do my best at translating. I aim to please.

Deagol

Deagol

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Denmark

Adding SoC as a gold sink is brilliant. Grinding for gold isn't really different from grinding for skill points, but since grinding for skill points adds a surplus of gold to the economy, the current system creates inflation.

I still like my suggestion better (get rid of both skill points and skill trainers) but the above is a much smaller change.

Shadow_Avenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Stolen Dreams

R/Me

You can only capture 1 skill per boss character, so loading up on SoC would be fairly pointless and difficulty to pull off, finding 8 bosses on a run with skill to capture, possible, but not easy.

DeathLord, please re read your own post, you state that there is only one uber build, If there is A.net will nerf it asap, as it goes against everything in the game.
Rather than Nay say, think, if SoC was 500gp then it would cost more than it costs to train in basic skills.
How can the existing trainer system becomeredundant with free SoC, simply put it can't, an example is for my necromance Verata's Gaze ,Verata's Sacrifice ,Verata's Aura I have found a trainer for the skills, but I have explored nearly everywhere with my ascended / game complete / got 10 elite skills necro and I can not find a boss that uses these skills.