State of GuildWars

level cap is just fine

how about....harder missions & bigger parties for them ?

You've beaten the game how many times?

Your reply:
"Well... Uhm... Uh I havn't beaten it yet but like um... my friends brother has and he's said that there's no grind so there!!!11111111!"

Be honest, you don't know what we're talking about when we talk about grind, so don't argue against something you don't know anything about.

The real question is how much xp is on your primary character. I'm personally only at 600k cause i have a low tolerance for grinding. I know a few poeple with over 1mil xp, and yeah, they'll all tell you its grind.

I've ascended twice and I'm going for my third. I'm not getting bored with the game.

I've only beaten the game once and refuse to do it with another character because it was only mildly entertaining the first time I did it. I would have voted against an UAS button before beating the game and wanting to pvp as well. However, my options upon logging in now are:

1) PvP with my crappy pve char

2) Use a crappy pre-built char

3) Beat the game again with more chars

4) Grind out xp to unlock more skills

I choose none of the above as they are NO fun, I will wait until either Anet pulls their head out and realizes no one wants to play their lacking pve content 4 or 5 times or BF2 comes out, wanna bet which one happens first?

I haven't had the time to read all the posts. There are some good ideas here though from the ones I have read.

I would like to see a "Bulletin Board" of some sort. Simular to one you would see Downtown with advertisments. So you do not have to sit there and bark out "WTS Blah Blah Blah", or Guild Ads, etc.

I see you've decided that it's easier to insult than to post anything of significance or try and give a mature opinion on anything. You still keep falling back on 'how many times'. Sorry, to disappoint but only once for me. I don't feel the need to rush through, so my other characters are having just a dandy time actually playing a game. If you want power gaming go to WoW or D2. I'm done with this pathetic 'mine is bigger than yours' contest, so feel free to fling more insults, just don't expect a resonse. The bottom line is that it's not doomed to obscurity like you suggest since not everyone is in it for the power.

There's nothing 'wrong' with the 'heart' of Guild Wars. The only time I'm not 'happy' with it is when I come into a forum and read all the whining from minorities trying to get the game changed to fit their own particular style, at the expense of the majority who don't come to forums to whinge and whine. And then it's not the heart of the game I'm unhappy with, just the people who play it. Thank god for henchmen, is all I can say.

No tard I said Id be playing Guild Wars long after you have thrown the towel in.

Hours played should never beat skill, thats why I dont complain about grind. I dont hook up with the uberest bestest guilds in the whole wide world to rush through high level areas repeatedly for whatever reason.

Im neither a farmer, a grinder, nor a whiner. I have level 12 characters sporting major runes, and max damage weaponry, because in the course of playing Guild Wars iv come across those items and managed to get a decent amount of coin. You think your somehow above me in Guild Wars? Even though admittadly you farm and grind as much as possible? If you hang around with a good Guild, which I dont, then you could have absolutly no skill at all and still win.

Have you tried to ascend with henchmen? Im in the European servers, where these uber guilds are not, and im finding getting good groups difficult. Only yesterday I had to fight those sand giants solo because my henchies were up to their old tricks of dying, not teleporting, or running away through rocks etc. Getting to thirsty river with henchmen is grind Ill tell you, not blitzing the desert with the best guilds in game.

Perhaps these uber guilds you speak off would be willing to help me out?

Anyway, you seem to dislike grinding, yet you repeatedly do the same areas over and over? You say the game should be about skill and not time played, whereas iv repeatedly owned PvP only characters with a lvl 17 Necro/mesmer.
You say maxing out on things is a grind, and is required, when my unascended Wa/Mo in GvG outdamages most pvp only Elementalists! Yes thats true, beleive it or not.

Skill is where it counts, if you dont think so you really are a fool. Best items, best weapons, best armor are ofcourse desirable, but if you are really good at GW you can make up for their lack.
If you dont think you can make up for a lack of items by skill thats your problem.

Btw ascending TWICE (lol) with the help of some of the best guilds ingame is far from an achievment chump. Try ascending with henchmen. And if you want to say youv spent more time playing, or have higher individual skill go right ahead.

At the end of the day your the exact person people in the game dislike the most. You whine and farm, grind and b1tch. People like me play. If I want to go look for something uber i will, if I want to do HoH I will, if I want to make a new character I will. You think grinding stinks, so do I. I laugh at you admitting hanging around with good guilds, and hoping that makes you look skilled. It makes me wonder why you cant do it solo for more rewards yourself. After all you think your uber.

I think you're whack on most of your PvE assumptions but maybe that's a reverse generalization.

I think what every max level PvE character wants, and many lower level characters are dungeons, or what passes for them in GW.

Half the PvE I talk to are bored with the levels and missions by 15 and just want to get to Fissure and underworld. That's two lousy locations. Most people like the missions I think but we want more places that are difficult to fight.

Everyone says levelling is the staple of the RPG genre but I think it's the focused fighting that goes on in dungeons. I want more difficulty in an exciting and unique environment.

I do PvP a bit and enjoy it a great deal. I see nothing wrong with having two completely different games, one PvP with everything unlocked and the other RP or PvE.

I completely understand the desire to level up your character through hard work and test that character against others. I'd have an RP only Arena and even HoH. Split them up totally.

I love dungeons

if instant-lvl20's get uas/uar i want those chars EXCLUDED from the pve content - i don't know but i guess you can go to dragon's lair with an instant_toon and start playing through the shiverpeaks (the route rankor->beacon's is to get back to the continent) - there comes in sth like roleplayer's pride: if they want uas for pvp: then pvp shall all they can do - additionally i want an arena for rpg-chars only# don't tell sth about unbalanced etc - i know and i don't care: rpging is sth else...

maybe this sounds rude but i don't want to party up with an instant-character who has everything from the start. i am way too much of a roleplayer, that's why i got no problem with finding my stuff even if it takes a while...


cap at 20 is just fine - i wish there was sth that lets the hero page count your lvls beyond 20.... for personal pleasure i only have my huuuge amounts of experience points.

so true (heading back to tyria this second ^^)

First of all, raising the level cap is NOT neccesary, and if they do 50 would be RIDICULOUS. I think MAYBE 25, and the ability to have more attribute points with those would be fine, but nothing higher for now. We shouldn't be as high as the highest baddies in the game.

BUT - The part of that ramble I thought the most hilarious was that you wanted all PVP items/weapons/skills unlocked NOW, and then 2 lines later asked for a more rewarding PvP! LOL What's LEFT?!

They DO need a better PvP system, but not these big drastic changes. I think that it would be neat if you and your guild could fight ANOTHER guild for items, such as a Celestial Signet, nice gold items, or even gold.

Also the halls should be more like cities, with a merchant, and DEFINITLEY a Storage person!

I think the BEST addition to Guilds would be to allow practice matches against your OWN members, like a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc etc... In the hall could be a battle arena, and whatever members touch the statue on one side join team A and the other B...

Just my thoughts!

What I find amusing here and in every other discussion about this subject, is that both sides feel a need to jump to any extreme they can find to either make or discredit a point.

In the time span of a few post we fallback to *If you don’t like it…LEAVE* or of course some of our favourites, the pve care bare comment or hardcore power pvper ones. Not only is this not helping it’s probably making Anet’s job that much more difficult to gage and therefore respond.

Many will use arguments or compare it to other games, this is not only pointless but as no relation whatsoever to the existing problem with GW, but does related to how the game was presented and marketed. This game sold as a skill over time based game and yet it’s turning out to be considerably time consuming for many players from casual to fairly active ones that want to pvp.

I consider myself as an active player and I do enjoy both sides of the game evenly, I have beaten the game with one character and have a second character around level 15 now. I did enjoy the missions the first time but do find them less enjoyable the second time around.

I would like to take the advice of just enjoying the game at this point, but you know what I thought enjoying the game meant I could play the game how I wanted. Yes I would enjoy a nice gvg battles and Tomb runs at this point as it would be a change of pace, Problem is if I do, I have little to no flexibility in the pvp characters I can create at this point, I can play an El/R with effective skills and no major or superior runes or use the pre-mades and btw did change my second profession on my first character to try and speed up the process, but of course ran out of skill points.

I hear you and agree that one or even two members on and well organised and skilled team with less than the best equipment won’t make that much of a difference, but lets be honest if that number on the team goes up to 6 (as it does in more casual guilds) then the difference does become significant to the point of preventing your team to be competitive or flexible.

Those of us asking to make the grind of unlocking skills and anything else for pvp disappear just want the same, to enjoy the game and to answer those who are tossing out the just leave argument, some of us have already left, just look at how many guilds are starting to talk about the non-active player base in their guilds, that’s your first sign.

Why some of us are pissed and are complaining is quite easy, we were marketed a game and sold a different one, I would be curious to see the reaction of some if people were forced to pve with one certain type of character with no flexibility and why not toss in no customisation as dye or anything else. Could you just enjoy the game? Better yet what if in order to pve you had to go trough a couple of months of pvp, how about then? And don’t forget this will repeat when expansions come out every six months.

In the case of GW since no monthly fees are charged the income will come from the expansions if you loose a large % of your player base between release and the first expansion, this is clearly not a good sign and will only mean less money to put in to further development and less chances of a great game in the end any side.

Personally I think Anet should simply come out and let the player base know ahead of time what angle they are working on to solve this, keeping us in the dark at this point doesn’t seem to be working at all, maybe it would allow a better discussion if we had something tangible to discuss and in the worst case it will at least make the flaming and arguing more targeted.

Just my two cents.

Unik

I think the biggest problem with GW right now is the lack of help from A.Net.. there is no easily accesible complaint area, like an in game help that most games have. The manual is weak, and without the content of sites like this, some things would NEVER be found out... which is OK for most of us, but its been said only 25% of players visit the forums

^_^ me too. There is one coming soon.

Look individual skills dont make a character, any character. Its skill combos, how you use them, when you use them, and how they operate in a group.
You might have 8 uber skills sitting on your bar, only to realise you couldnt swat a fly at a yard, let alone nuke a monk in HoH. You might have 8 average skills, but theyre complemenary and when used correctly when the opportunity arises you completely fk up one, two, maybe even the whole opposing team if your trully skilled.

You do not need all the desert only skills/armor/elites to be able to compete. what you need is a character that does a job well. Many many times iv created PvP only characters using skills iv unlocked just to whet my appetite for what awaits me when I ascend, and to tell you the truth the improvement is minor.

Iv barely altered my skill bar on my main character since I reached Lions Arch with it. Why? Because the combo I use on it I have yet to better. For the job I use it for. I suffer from not being in a Guild that sits down and studies builds hard to come up with properly complementary teams. This might force me to switch servers at some point in order to achieve this, but not yet. Iv yet to join a fight where I could not fulfill some role adequetly if not (imodesty) well.

There is no reason why the skill you unlock relativly early in a specific builds PvE game cannot be of use to you in a PvP character only. In my experiance if you give skilled craftsman shoddy tools he can make an adequete product. the same applies here. Even if the skill selection is crap, if the player is good they should atleast cancel out.

Granted HoH is another level of competitive play, but having said that do you expect a good player to use a build fo which he has not skills? No. In my experiance if you have not got an ascended character, but have a decent knowledge, and a decent set of skills, you are better than most that play.

All this talk of 'eliteness' cracks me up. Do you honestly believe you can hope to compete anywhere, be it online gaming, or anywhere, without effort?
If you want to be the very best, and compete at the very highest level with every single skill item and peice of armor then you simply must accept the game, and master all of it. If you do not want to, moan that something is preventing you, whatever then you are NOT at that level. Simple.

Blaming what is a great game for your inability for whatever reason, or taking your frustrations at not being uber in all aspects now out on games is childish. It happens in all games whether people have a point or not. They bring fairness, competitivness, time wasting, gameplay balance etc. all into the mix, when its clear for anyone to see Guild Wars is simply not that flawed.

Some would say its hardly flawed at all (me), but to argue thats it gravely flawed, will die soon, and is an absolute bore is simply a joke. Whats games do you play that makes you draw these conclusion? They sound like booze and chemicals on a CD, I must get me some...

Not having THAT skill, or THAT item is not a game breaker. For god sake in a fight itself youll have to deal with a lot more pressure than a missing skill and still come out on top. what you going to do then? Blame A.net for multiple massive elemental damage? ask for mesmers to be nerfed because they keep shutting down your monks?

If you want it, go and get it. If you dont want to go through the trials to get it, dont do it. If you cant get it dont come here and whine about a ruined game.

This is the part I'm unclear on. Only because I'd been following the developement from the start and it meets every expectation I had. Now considering this is the first MMORPG I've played (and bought my computer for) I don't have a lot to compare it to as far as other games go, except from watching and listening to my friends play others like WoW and such.

It may be simply because I was mainly interested in the RPG part of them game, as I'm an RPG girl all the way, but I can say with all confidence that Guild Wars lives up to my expectations and satisfys what it said it was going to.

But what can I say, I'm just not a big fan of PvP. So as long as they don't change the PvE part of the game by doing drastic things like raising the level cap or anything like then, then I'll be happy. But when I become more interested in PvP I know I'll still have the enthusiam to keep playing over and over until I unlock everything I want.

My thoughts,

Keep level cap, have more unique items (cosmetic only), and there really needs to be some kind of reward for beating the game. I mean come on Anet I get 1 skill point and 1000 exp, the same thing I've been getting since defending the Northern wall, what a let down. When you beat the game it would be nice if you we got to unlock all skills for our primary and secondary professions. Then you will have that sense of satisfaction that you have been rewarded for saving the world. It would also reduce the grind. I am dreading bringing my second character out of pre-searing, argh, seared Ascalon deppressed me the first time. I am not one of these obessive compulsive gamers who enjoys beating a game multiple times.

Right now with my skill set I can only play two types of charcaters effectively in PvP. This is a problem, because I would like to play PvP full time now that I beat the game and a team build may require a different skill set than what I have.

If they added a couple things. For me, it would be perfection.

2 or 3 more skill slots on my shortcut bar
a dispel trap skill for Rangers
an increase in a bows max damage from 28 - 35
faster casting time for Troll Ungnet
the energy cost for skills to change when I up my expertise. like the damage and duration do...

Right? Seriously, you sound like someone straight from a D2 LOD pvp group.
"Waaaah! I have played for 298364983 hours and I don't have an uber-flame-spewing-firesword-of-death to show for it... Raise the max level to 999 so everyone will be happy, k thx..."
Get real, or get better, or hell, go play D2 LOD competitively. It sounds like your idea of a "Community."

well said. I agree. Not only is it combos of skills, but skills with weaponry... an uber weapon quite possibly be worse for a particular character than a mediocre one that fits the skill build perfectly.

I've been playing GW since the day it came out 2-3 hours a day and I'm at a bit of a problem here myself. First off I'm more of a PvE'r, I played through the game (and that was one hell of a game) and had alot of fun, but it was short.

I got through the game in less than 2 weeks playing 2-3 hours a day. Well of course being the RP'er I am I went off and did every quest (which took no time at all) and completed the bonuses. I got my 15k set for the hell of it and then bought a guild hall for my guild I had lead. I covered UW and FoW time and time again and mapped the entire world. I captured numerous skills and tried different setups. I even went through Borlis Pass with nothing but henches just to see if I could! Well that was about it for the PvE so I headed into the PvP part of the game by trying out some arenas then moving on to HoH then into GvG. I've played all types of PvP countless times and made many characters. It got stale pretty quickly (GvG was fun for quite a while).

My problem is now that I am sitting here going "now what". After playing the game 2-3 hours a day for a little over a month I have nothing to do. In my mind the problem is they try to please both aspects of the game which in effect tears at eachother. It makes the PvP replay value low and the PvE just plain short with few benefits after droknars forge. Many people who haven't got incredibly far into the game yet would argue with me and say the game has a huge lifespan and is incredible. Well yes the game is incredible, it's one of if not the best mmorpg's I've played but it just doesn't last. Once you get through it there's just nothing left to do but walk around and help out new players and bs with friends.

NCsoft made a great game but it conflicts with itself too much and nerfing farming and adding rune traders is not helping the problem. I won't even say what I think of that because I don't want to get yelled at by 20 different people. They need to think of something fast because the number of players reaching the end of things to do and getting tired of the same old pvp is increasing. I'm not saying they should raise the lvl cap but they need to think of something. I love GW to death and I would love to keep playing but there has to be something to play ^.^

the energy usage DOES go down as expertise goes up

Here's my opinion on the State of Guild Wars:

Level Cap

You can't level forever. There needs to be a cap somewhere otherwise it would be impossible for the dev's to create suitable content. That said, I believe the cap is too low. If you're still running around earning xp and skill points in order to buy all of the skills for your chosen professions why stop giving out attribute points?

Set the cap to the same level that earns you all of the skill points necessary to aquire all of the skills for two professions.

PvP vs PvE

Some people will want to focus on PvP and play only as much PvE as necessary. Others will want to play PvE exclusively and don't give a hoot at all about PvP. Still others will want to play both equally. ANet has to realize that their free-to-play policy will attract players from all sides.

Separate PvP from PvE a bit more. Anything you unlock in PvE is usable in PvP immediately. Once the player has reached the end game all content (including max level) they didn't unlock in their trip through PvE is unlocked for PvP use ONLY. If you're a strict PvEer you may still have to play for awhile to earn all of the skills, runes, upgrades, etc. but the PvPer can toss PvE aside and play the part of the game they've wanted to play the entire time. This way should appeal to all three types of gamers I would think.

Essentially it retains the need for at least one trip through PvE, but eliminates the grind that players may have to go through to maximize their PvP experience.

I realise and totally agree with the level 20 cap..

however..

even if it made NO DIFFERENCE what so ever... it would be nice to be able to go up levels...

if you think about it you do STILL level, and you can calculate your real level if you wanted to.. so why not increase the level, even though it would be purley cosmetic!

I've been level 20 for donkeys years.. but I only feel that I'm becoming a top level character now that I have unlocked LOADS of skills, have some of the best armour and I'm alot more competative than I was when I first turned 20.

so I agree with not increasing the level cap.. but it would be nice when selecting members for groups knowing just how good a level 20 character is.. or if they are just a newbie power leveling 20...

anyone agree?.. even if its just to satisfy our ego's.. would introduce more IN-GUILD competition and better team selections.

Its almost as if the only qualification that anyone can get is an A.. noone can get A+ or distinctions or degree's... I think this is why ppl get bored, there isnt a way to distinguish your character against anyone else's.. noone is special. or at least there is no way of advertising that your special.

Snowman.

The Snowman.

I think this is the crux of the issue. Too many people here have played every other MMORPG under the sun and expect 'Guild Wars' to play exactly like all the rest. I think it's only people (like you) who approach it with a fresh perspective and without the baggage of past experiences, that really appreciate what 'Guild Wars' is all about. It's meant to be different - it's meant to be played different. It is not just another by-numbers MMORPG whose play-style is indistinguishable from all the others.

Before complaining about all the things 'Guild Wars' is not, people should first truly understand what 'Guild Wars' is.

Nice assumption. Now, why a good guild will invite you or why it will not kick you if you have absolutely no skill? Besides, how can a guild be good if it have a lot of players with absolutely no skill?
Just join a good guild himself, i don't think it's that hard if you're a skilled player.

Do we only gain skill points, or also attribute points? I'm just curious since I got a character to level 20 for the first time on Sunday.

Thanks!

I suggest you just quit the game and go for a grinding game like WoW.

This game is to be enjoyed not Endured.

I play this game about 2 hours a day max, thats because Im so busy and I have friends that want to do other stuff.

Its a perfect game for those who want just a GAME, if you want a experience beyond, as feeling acomplished with pouring 200+ hours into a character which later you wont give a damn for in 2 -3 years, please, just leave.

And you got to remember that Guildwars is a free game, not a P2P. So they need a way to make money and support what they are doing, thats why they are realising new content in the expansions

Actually, I've played most of the MMORPG's of the last 8 years and I love what Guildwars is not. I'm kinda burned out on WoW-style gaming (yes, I was a 60 on a PvP server, yes, my guild did/does MC to Ragnaros and Onyxia weekly, yes they are doing BG and waiting 3 hours for an Alterac queue, so I do know what endgame is like) and I am so glad GW is here to keep me sane and give me escapism without exhausting me. I've enjoyed my experiences to date and will continue to do so for quite a while to come even after I've completed Fissure and Ring (which I'm in no hurry to do since the PvP is keeping me happy).

I do play my PvE character in PvP and I enjoy both aspects of the game. I'm not a fan of UAU but I would like to see a hybrid system for people who have completed the PvE game and want to explore other characters in PvP without having to play the game over. D2 was fun to beat on normal but I got kinda bored 3/4 of the way through Nightmare--it was the same stuff over again--and I don't want to see GW end up with the same general fading of audience interest.

Just skill points. However! If you missed these, there are two quests you can do which give bonus attribute points. I believe they've been detailed pretty well in the Tyrian Explorers' League forum. If you didn't, please disregard.

Cheers to that. I just hit 20 two nights ago (last time I played). I've played since the day before the release (pre-order/beta testing). And I went into the game already knowning a lot of the quests, and basics since I was in the beta. I still just now hit level 20. I blame this on two reasons: a) having a life outside gaming (mainly work and family) and b) balancing two characters (level 20, and level 14).

I find that running two seperate characters is more fun then grinding skill points, and items because they are so different in game play (Ranger/Monk vs. Mesmer/Elementalist).

However, level cap to me can go either way. I find gaining experience and levels "something to look forward too" as sort of a reward for game play time, and the feeling of accomplishment. But that's probably because I'm a good ol' D&D player where leveling up could take months...but it happened. The difference is that with RPG games experience gathering is a magnatude of 10 faster (else people would get "bored").

If I had the choice between new content, skills, items, and neat stuff or a removal of level caps, I'd choose new content! I'm a PvE strickly kinda person until I'm bored with GW then I'll probably try out PvP for a new look and feel with a comfortable/familiar gaming engine.

CodeMonkey

Thanks. I heard about the two quests, but haven't done them yet.

ne/me: beaten, now ne/mo, most ne/me elites that i care for
wa/ne: fully infused - the old way, getting wa elites and finishing next
me/e: fully infused - the old way, getting e elites and finishing next
mo/me: going to the wilds...
some insta pvps that I have deleted

unlocked about half the sups i want, mostly through playing.
farmed a little fleshgolems with my ne/me before the nerf to get 30-40 plat to play with

could use another slot for pvp only
could use a bigger guild for elite-hunting, pugs suck mostly and henches kill to fast - but with the new soc system this should be solved. but i'm leveling my monk now.

On the other hand i have no guild pushing me to get team-build fitted chars to camp the HoH or climb the GvG ladder...

Dood. You've logged some hours online eh? Your cable modem must be smoking with network traffic

CodeMonkey

I don't want higher levels, I don't want things I can run through in a week that have no real impact. I want meaningful content. As a more PvE-centric person, I can say thats the bottom line for many of us.

You can say whatever you want about it but the truth is, there are people that would be totally fine never bothering with PvP at all. I'm not saying I'm one of these people, I fall into the gray in between, but PvE content usually entertains me more. Should they go find another game? Not necessarily, this game has a map that holds a treasure trove of engaging PvE content, with skills and drops that have a lot more potential than they currently do.

The missions were great. Some speak like the month they had to invest in them was an undertaking of epic proportion. To me, they were an opportunity to learn the intricacies of my class, the balances and abilities of other classes, and so many other things that you wouldn't want to step into PvP without having a good grasp of. Places like UW, where people seem to go in expecting something new and exciting, good drops and strategic PvE exploration-- great stuff. And not grind in my mind. More options like that are probably forthcoming and I can't wait.

The minimal grind spoken of is a boon to the casual player and casual PvPer alike. PvPers are another breed of powergamer, often times, and I think we're forgetting that. We all pull for the underdog, but really, who can log for two hours a week and clean up a team that fights together everyday like its their job? The PvE content gives a casual player training ground, and content that isn't an excercise in futility like PvP can sometimes seem to be.

Please do not raise the level cap. 20 is just fine.
It's the new content and expansions that will keep this game interesting.
Raising the level cap over 20 will be the beginning of the end.

I'm a PvE loyalist, but also try PvP. Never realized I actually love to do both so I'm never tired of this game. PvE and PvP are two different flavors. My personal play style is to take my time in PvE. What's the rush? Lol.

This fun game has been out less than 2 months. So far, I like where it's headed.

Guildwars takes allmost no traffic - I usually have some downloads/uploads going at the same time unless I'm playing pvp.

edit: yea ok i checked - thats over 220h on the pve chars. I need a less boring job and more exciting friends