State of GuildWars

ROFLOL, that's exactly what I was thinking!

I have no problems with cosmetic levels. Some obnoxious players would insist they were "better" than the rest of us because their cosmetic level were higher (where all it really proves is that they have less of a life), but than again, they find ways to be obnoxious even with the current level cap.

A cosmetic level is really not that different from the "rank" in PvP, which is also mostly a measure of how much time you play.

You don't understand that we DO NOT want to grind, at all. To be honest I wish I hadn't ascended twice (or even ever bought guildwars) But you have to waste 300+ hours of your life to be able to compete, It's not an issue of "power". Can't you just look at it from my point of view before you take what I said it to some totally stupid direction. How would you feel if you had to beat the HoH 100 times before you could even play in PvE at your full potential, I'm sure you wouldn't like it, so why would we like beating the PvE 4 times before we can PvP at our full potential. You can't have a girlfriend and a job, and be in a top guild at the same time, I really hate repeating my self but people just skip over my posts or something.

I don't think I agree with a single thing the OP said.

Do you really want 1 in 1,000,000 swords dropping that hit for 28-40 damage instead of 15-22 (this is the equivalent of what you have in WoW)? No it turns the fun skill based PvP into a 'I got lucky or spent more money on Ebay than you did' PvP.

Do we need more levels than 20? We have them in an indirect way, you can't get all 150 skills at L20, you need a lot of levels past 20 or you need to reroll many many times. Just because it doesn't show '20/102' or something for all of the skill point dings doesn't mean you aren't getting more levels.

Does PvP need UAS/UAR? No, PvPers now can buy runes for their characters from the Rune Trader at HoH. They can get money selling Sigils to the Sigil trader at the HoH, one Sigil is enough to deck out 2-5 characters depending on the runes you need. If you are a dedicated PvPer you don't need to be rerolling on all of your slots all the time so spending the money even if you haven't unlocked is fine.

I have posted elsewhere that you should be able to buy skills with Fame and I still believe in that. They could come up with some balanced Fame costs for skills. This isn't UAS but this isn't forcing a PvP character to do any PvE. It might take them longer but as long as PvP is fun then longer doesn't matter.

I would also like to see some better rewards for the "epic quests" like those in UW and Fissure (or the future zones) such as weapons the quality of the farming drops, not just some XP. Maybe even a weapon modifier quest or something down there where they change the base buff on the weapon/staff/wand on an existing weapon you have.

Is the game perfect? No. Is the PvE experience the best written RPG story of all time? No. Is the PvE experience good enough to spend 40-100 hours going through all of the missions, quests, and areas? You bet. Is it the best PvP system implemented in a MMO game to date? By far. Is this the game for everyone? No, and if you don't like it instead of trying to make it what you want, why not just go looking for something you do like? Oh wait, you're just trolling.

Agreed, currently rather confused on how expansions are going to work as what's the point of new game content quests, missions etc if you are starting them at the max level other than to "unlock" yet more runes and skills? The problems start arising when you look at it from the PvP players side of things. Perhaps restricting those people who want to go past level 20 from participating in PvP with those that don't is the way to go? Then with the combined UAS/UAR options suggested below, anyone can still pickup and play a PvP premade and not have to play their way through the entire game.

Yes, more shiny weapons and armour please, although changing the damage modifiers might not be the best idea.

Again, agreed.

I'd say a little lower, level 50 in the first expansion? If they plan on releasing multiple expansions we'll all end up at stupidly high levels

I'm assuming this will be addressed too, FoW and UW are nice, but I think bonus areas for Melandru, Dwayna and Lyssa's statues are in order.

I'm not so sure real unique items are the way to go, I rather like the random modifier drops as they are, it makes the market far more varied. With unique items everyone would want them causing everything else to be generally useless.

See 2.

Yes, yes, yes. Oh and yes. I bet i'm not the only one that hates sitting around repeatedly saying "WTS: <items>" in Trade, not to mention it cleans up the idiots who can't seem to find the Trade channel and have to spam it in Local.

Hopefully 8 and 9 go hand in hand, once things get settled with a decent auction and trading system the economy should start to look up.

Yeah, this is the bit that pure PvP'ers can't seem to understand, a little more RPG and a little less FPS for the PvE'ers please.

I'd also like to add:

11. Upgrades for wands! How many times can it get suggested? It's nearly impossible to find a decent wand with the mods you want on it, so please let us add our own.

12. Quest rewards. As it stands the rewards for quests are usually a useless hammer, focus item or a bow and you can't seriously tell me anyone uses them, they all get sold. Better rewards for questing are needed.

13. Toggle capes on/off and toggle helmet on/off. Another highly suggested one, should work inside and outside town, but force capes/helm for PvP.

I'm probably not the best person to advocate PvP changes as i'm not really into that side of the game too much, but I know all the PvP people out there really seem to want this. However i'd prefer if they didn't allow those who had unlocked everything to mix in PvP arenas with those that haven't, in order to keep things fair for those that actually want to have fun progressing their character themselves and also like to compete in PvP occasionally.

By fleshed out I presume you mean bigger? Sounds fine to me. Seeing more than an 8 v 8 would be interesting, as it stands I see a lot of the Guild part but not much of the Wars bit, rather misleading name for a game, change it or rename to "Mini Guildbattles"

You could do it this way and i'm sure those that PvP to get their fun would like to see some kind of recognition for their efforts defending their guild in GvG, this should be on par with the PvE'ers rewards for questing.

Can't see anything wrong with this, ever wanted to be famous? Well, with Guildwars you can't! That is until they fix this and add some kind of recognition system, perhaps an appearance change or special title?

While I don't play PvP much I can see this becoming a problem, you can argue that people will create specific builds to "own" in 1v1 duels, then think that it'll work in Tombs and GvG. I think teamwork is more important than appeasing kiddies who think they are good because they can beat someone in a duel.

Ahh, just wanted to add this. I feel there is no way to collectively appease both factions, PvP and PvE keeping things the way they are currently. The two simply do not go together. My suggestions/comments are geared towards splitting both factions up, allowing PvP'ers to pick up and play with no effort, while allowing PvE'ers to have their fun questing and leveling.

Constructive criticism is welcome, general criticism on par with CS kiddie speak shall be ignored.

Hail and well met,

All the things listed in the OP as "must haves" already exist in other online offerings; EQ, EQ2, DAoC, WoW, et al.
I've played them all, and they collectively "suck" to put it politely. Some much more than others...but to each his own. That they all charge a monthly fee in addition is simply insult upon injury. (The real question is, why doesn't Guild Wars? It's a better game.)
Their PvP is a joke, it's all about gear - no real skill required.
The guild with the most-twinked out players wins - period.

Combine that with monopolies on contested spawns (where the good stuff drops) and its simply a paid competition between the haves and the have nots.

This over time has become accepted by players as the norm, and to show how far the gaming psyche has degenerated; people now clamor for "more grinding," "more 733tness" and "more farming." These are negatives friends - not must haves...more levels doesn't make a better game - it's what you can do with where you are at that makes the difference.
...
For those of you reading this with a vacant stare on your face, all I can say is
You just don't get "it."

What these gamers crave is an unfair advantage. That is also why exploits, bots and macros are so popular and persistent- the desire to win at all costs overrides reason, good sportsmanship, and fair play. Call it a microcosm of professional sports...

GW has done something that none of the above games have been able to produce: A decent storyline that draws you in, and makes you (well myself anyways) care about the characters, and missions that truly require skill - not rote "lather, rinse, repeat" routines that pass for skill in the other games.
Why do you think most of the server "sticks" at the ascension?
Modicum of skill required...

I wouldn't change a thing; and as far as the OP is concerned;
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Hope this wasn't already said before, only read the first page...But about levels higher than 20...How would you like the "NEED MONK, BLAH BLAH BLAH CLASS!!!" turn into

"NEED LEVEL 40 MONK!!!"

some level 10 monk comes and says hes just as good, the elitest:

"FU NOOB!!!! LVL 40 PWNS U U CN NVR BE GUD AS 40 MNK!!!!!!"

That is what raising the level cap will probably bring, and I agree with the PVP characters that can UAS UAWU UAR be sent to a seprate realm, what's the fun of being a PVE character doing PVP also just to have another elitest noob come and spam every single skill that they wouldn't be able to get at the time?

A bunch of other things I don't agree with, IMO you sound like one of those elitests that just want more and more and more and mroe and whine when you don't get "UBOR LVL 50!!!" or "UBOR!!! I R UNLCK AL SKILZ IN 1SC!!!!"

I completely agree with the original post. I've really come to hate this game, and if something doesn't change as far as the PvE goes in the next expansion, I will quit it, undoubtedly.

Im not sold on the PvP part of this game, and bought it for PvE (i wasnt given a choice between gw, or eq...it was gw or nothing). I have two level 20 characters, with 15k armor, decked out in superior runes (vigor on both, absorb on my warrior). Best axe in game, best mods on it, best bow in game, best mods on it. I've beaten the RP part of the game.
I've completed all the quests, all the bonuses, on both characters... What else is there for someone like me? I don't like PvP that much, sure one run a week is fine, but thats it....I spend about 8 of my 10 hours on gw torturing my eyes with spam in lions arch. The other 2 are spent in UW or FoW, farming.

I feel like there is nothing left to do in this game as far as PvE...Any former EQ, WoW, or hell....even Runescape players know that this isn't the way a MMORPG should be...As far as the pvp...The same maps, over...and over....and over...The same builds over....and over....and over...The same classes in groups (2mo,3ele,2war,1mes) over....and over...and over..... This game is repetitive and I have chosen to stop playing it for a few weeks...Maybe when I get back things will change.

Ok, bye, leave us to our game and go back to "MONGO SMASH!" approch for WoW or something and leave us alone.

mongo smash? what is guildwars? it has no plot to the pve...
BTW, who are you? kthxbye

He's entitled to his opinion, but if you want to act that way then why don't you go back to CS?

Seriously, grow up, everyone is allowed to play the game their own way, stop bashing him just because he wants to PvE.

Every game suffers from players who quickly reach top tier, accomplish everything and quickly grow bored - that is normal. The game developers will release expansions with new quests, missions and content, but they cant possibly keep up with the rate these people burn through it.

Aye, best to either take some time off, play a different class, or take up a new game.

Regards,

Tal

I don't think anyone could have said it better than that.

I just finished game. I like PvP, but I finishedthe game as a Monk which I hate using in PvP. I building up a Memser for PvP. If they start raising level caps it's never going to end.

Peple will say levle cap should be 30. Once it hit 30 peopl will say, "Its to low the level cap should be 50." That wont be enough. Then tye level will be raiseed to 100. That still won't be enough for thje grinders. So they raise it to 200. It still wont be enough. I say leave the cap where it is. I'm happy with it.

This summer they are comming out to new explorable areas. It's not an expasion pack its a free download more PvE stuff.

Yeah, I understand that guildwars is light on the network. I appluad them for it (as i'm a network programmer myself). However the point was more about the time spent pushing those little network packets more then bandwidth saturation ;-)

CodeMonkey

Is their proof on this?

Everyone be nice or suffer the wrath of my big boot of thread closed. =)

Seen a few posts I wasn't keen on.

Thanks.

you mean besides the announcements on guildwars.com and the movie showing some of the area?

The problem for me is as a pve player is that the pve content is basically setup as a way to get strong characters for pvp. Which means that as someone who likes the pve and only wants to do some casual pvp, I'm SOL. Also the downplay of true loot, not weapons or runes but powerful items isn't there since that will imbalance pvp. I agree the attempt to combine pvp and pve just isn't working. There is not enough things to do, items to collect or worthwhile rewards for pve.

And on the other hand if I want to create a new character and focus completely on Pvp I'm screwed on that end since I need to first create a similar character play thru the pve game and unlock as many skills and runes I can so I can survive. There has to be some kind of split that needs to occur, something to truely expand and distingish the pve and pvp aspect of guild wars into 2 seperate but major elements in the game. Maybe it boils down to making this into 2 games, pve and pvp. I really don't know.

But after getting to 20 , finshing all co-op missions, and getting the majority of my skills (that's elite as well) I'm pretty much completely burned out. I have no intreast in doing underworld or fissure since there is no real point outside of a new weapon or 2 and money that will probably be spent on nothing importent

Couldn't agree more.

Yeah, I agree with Talesin on this matter.

I am grateful for the responses. I feel like providing a recap. Most have been rather good posts describing in detail how their playing experience has left them feeling.

These individuals with much detail have to some degree validated my assertions regarding current GW game status. Their posts are obvious to the reader and they actually complement each other and further highlight the ideas behind my original post.

What I have learned from reading the posts further illustrates the plight of the PvPer. What I have read further confirms other sources and my own experience and is actually very disturbing because it’s the PvP community, which is going to make or break this game. I say that because the game developers are focused on them. They want them and they are trying to shape the game for them, which is understandable the game is called Guild Wars.

The fact PvPers have to do 200+ hours to unlock several characters for PvP is a major disaster. That was one of the original points I included in my original post and its not going anywhere. The fact future expansions will by all accounts require more PvE for PvPers is not good either for this segment of the community.

Now PvE is grinding and not farming when it is not fun anymore or serves a purpose. This is up to the individual but even PvEers I imagine think grinding for unlocking only is rather pointless. This current situation appeals to no one.

Now some people have offered suggestions even compromises and expressed similar viewpoints about PvE and PvP. Others have perhaps not been so constructive. With this new game style that GW presents its seems to also have given heart or ideology to a breed of player who before perhaps never had a voice.

Apparently there are those who want to play a fantasy rpg with quests and items but don’t want it to be too difficult or time consuming. However most everything has costs in time and most things in life require commitment and investment. The game goes against conventional wisdom but at what cost?

The notion that everyone should be handicapped to the lowest common denominator is an appealing idea I suppose in philosophy class but most of the time, time spent equals often the reward. Training is practice, leveling is skills, skills is playing, time is playing and it could be in PvP or PvE environments. I don’t see how you can effectively reduce that requirement or necessity of time investment to zero and still have a compelling game.

Perhaps those who log more hours doing PvP should have a handicap like –10% hp for every 100 hours logged to give newbies a chance? Now that seems absurd to most and it is but it’s an extension of the mindset that time investment should not engender advantage.

Now most posts have given a lot and repeatedly attempted to describe in detail the situation. Some of these posters represent the extreme and to our gain show what many of the general populace might be thinking a month or two from now.

My solution is PvP and PvE separation. PvP would be capped, UAS, UAR, UAWU and its all skill based. The level in PvP is not important it’s only important that everyone has access to the same. Ultimately in PvP it would be the team members and strategy, selection of classes and skills that would win victories. I think that is what PvPers want.
Currently this segment of the community is being forced to PvE and many after many hours of play are actually some of the most hardcore PvEers but not by choice. It’s an odd situation created by the necessity of the flawed game design. The end result will be to create a hostile and burnt out PvP community. The expansion will only add fuel to the flames. This is actually a sick situation and unhealthy for a hardcore segment of the fan base not to mention the other total lack of PvP rewards currently.

Now in PvE the situation would be different perhaps a level 25-30 level cap again its rather meaningless but GOALS of some kind are again needed here. PvEers need long-term goals to build their characters too. This segment of the community often makes fan sites, posts at forums, creates templates and is interested in LORE. This segment of the community is interested in item gaining, and creating unique characters. GW currently is in a sick situation because it is able to provide this community nothing in what is considered traditional rpg gaming goodness. There is a reason RPGers, PvEers think this way it is because they love it.

Perhaps a little example:

PvP only characters (Pure PvP)
So many victories give titles. So many victories give unique armor. So many victories give banners, flags, and capes; things for the Guildhall.

Now PvP characters and PvE characters would not fight in HOH or other combat but could belong to same guildhall and interface at the guildhall. PvPers would bring honor to a guild through PvP victories.

*PvP would only fight other PvP characters

PvE only characters
PvE characters would fight in the lands around the Guildhall for the honor of the guildhall. They would fight PvE mobs, Boss PvE mobs that would bring honor and recognition to the guild.

*PvE could fight other PvE characters or interestingly not, perhaps not allowed

On another note, which I want delve to far into:
Actually without attempting to get to off topic they should just quick fix and auto everyone to one of 400 guilds perhaps max. With 500 people in a guild and once below 200 it’s merged with another guild of similar rank. I have no idea but something other than the current situation has to be done because 50,000 guilds of 4 people each is way off manageability.

So far I have been talking about PvE and PvP not even really talking about the Guild structure, which is a complete mess for about 80% of the community I imagine.
Guild wars PvP consists for most people of random PvP and association with a guild of not many active members or purpose or structure.

If we assume everything is correct and fine then PvEers should just enjoy making new characters and doing the storyline/quests over. Which would be similar to playing a single player rpg over. That could work many people play single player games over with different characters. I think its just people want more, want more of what they associate with PvE computer online games. The point is once a player plays the game 2-3 times through they probably will be sick of it unless they have something to look forward too. Gaining more skills, more runes and buying more useless armor for 15K+ probably will not do the trick.

The truth is for PvEers it’s building a character over a long period of time. Items and skills and new challenges play a big part. Most PvE games require a commitment of regular play hence the desire to play regularly. GW PvE shows no signs of requiring regular play and in actuality does not reward regular play. Since it is these hardcore PvEers who often create the backbone of any long lasting community I feel concern.

PvPers are a different lot and require new and interesting challenges to keep them busy and tallying up deaths vs killed. Tournaments, meaningful guild ratings, recognition are important. With the current Guild structure this is impossible, with the current game design this is impossible. This community of PvPers has supported many games with just interest in PvP in other formats but if they cannot ultimately do it when they want and how they want they will leave. This community of players can also provide a strong backbone for GW but forced PvE will kill them.

Now if you really don’t care about hardcore PvP or hardcore PvE you are in the middle and minority. It’s these two groups hardcore PvP and PvE that define any genre and every game. The middlemen the casual gamers who want everything equal without effort or time investment perhaps is who the game was designed but they only represent 1/3rd or less of the fan base. It is illogical and flawed to attempt to appease them at the risk of alienating the hardcore players.

Hence my original post.

Good point about the "rank" I didnt consider that.. probably because my rank aint that great.. maybe if it would be easyer to view other peoples rank?

It seems to me that you cant really find out much information about the people around you.. I dont even think you can tell what the name of someones guild is.

you cant really design your character so that it looks radically different from anyone else either..

So, there just isnt any individuality in GW!

yes, it increases obnoxious levels but this is what spurs people on.. gets them motivated.. increases competition.

Even if there is no individuality for you character ... there isnt even anything to make your GUILD seem special... yes, you can fight in pvp raise your ranks etc.. but I never take any notice of any guild names let alone their rating, so why would anyone pay much attention to ours?.. its balanced so well that it takes a very long time for new players to get caught up in the competative side to GW

IF ONLY there was something, even something cosmetic (like badges) that made you feel like more than just 'another player' or 'another guild' then the games attention span would be much longer.... after all, its the only reason why games like City of Heroes are so popular.. the game mechanics in that are dead simple nothing compared to GW.. but in that game you have a chance to make yourself look and act unique.. people will pay £8 a month for that..

I personally think its this comple lack of individuality/uniqueness for guild and character as the reason for the short attention span, its been nearly two months, and GW players are dropping like flies, and the negativity on the forums is getting thicker. Its got to be more than 'gaming features' the causes this.

The Snowman.

(damn, didnt realise I typed that much... this job is REALLY boring)