Give us a WAR!

EmperorTippy

EmperorTippy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

27 Jun 2005 at 01:23 - 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancalagon06
this game can handle 6 teams of 8. Why can't 3 of those teams be allied? Why can't each side have one extra team, making it a grand 32 v. 32 melee?

And, to the question everyone asks, we've already figured out that the individual squads will be limited to 8 in size, and they will be allied with all the other squads (4 each).
Or 8 squads of 4 or 16 squads of 2. Then you have the case of a large force versus many smaller forces. Have some fun.

Edit: Or this: 2 Squads of 8 and 4 squads of 4. or 3 squads of 8 and 2 squads of 4. The team should be allowed to decide the squad sizes with a max size of 8 and a minimum size of 2.

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

27 Jun 2005 at 01:55 - 82
Good point ^^

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

01 Jul 2005 at 11:13 - 83
Bumpedy bumped...~

DrSLUGFly

DrSLUGFly

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

European Server or International

01 Jul 2005 at 12:26 - 84
ancalagon hits it on the head! From that perspective, it would only take a small modification to the PvP set up and perhaps modify a few of the PvE zones to allow PvP combat... we're good to go

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

01 Jul 2005 at 12:28 - 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancalagon06
this game can handle 6 teams of 8.
Correct. There already exists such a setting, so we know this to be true.

Quote:
Why can't 3 of those teams be allied?
It would probably be easy to have 3 teams of 8 allied. All that's really needed is a flag that sets the color, and a flag that says that they are allied and so can not damage eachother (just like you can't damage e.g. Prince Rurik in missions, try as one might). You'd probably be able to drop healing etc on the allied team players, though; not sure if this would unbalance things.

Quote:
Why can't each side have one extra team, making it a grand 32 v. 32 melee?
Could work or could lead to lag, or there might be more fundamental limits in the game code I suppose.

Personally I'd love to do the GW equivalent of missions like Normandy Beach in Medal of Honor, with one defending & entrenched side, and one rushing up from landing boats, and I'm sure many would too BUT - can Anet motivate diverting artists, modelers and programmers to making what is effectively a whole new area of the game? Not sure.

Also, would enough people want to play in big battles? Can even the biggest guilds actually field 32 players for more than a few minutes? What if you have to wait hours to fill two teams of 32 players? And what about players that drop out? Can a new player at all enter a already running instance, to replace players who've quit or lost connection?

Exciting idea, and I'm pretty sure it's doable, but there's also some obvious questions.

Wrt tactics, 4x8 is still a fairly manageable number of players, and should it turn out to be chaos I assume the presently existing modes would still be there.

kalaris

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Warrior Nation [WN]

W/N

01 Jul 2005 at 12:49 - 86
I support this idea for great Justice!

I think this would be a great addition to the game in later stages, the only problem I see with it is, is that it needs to have no real reward other then fun, because if the battle sizes are as large as you are asking for, then it would be hard for smaller guilds to meet the 32 man req.

I think it should be tested in a 16vs16 version first..

also it would breathe new use into the warrior, ranger classes as they currently get no love, as well as making a new greater use for Fire Elementalists...

oh... and Edge of exinction could be oh so fun!

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

01 Jul 2005 at 14:26 - 87
Not one guild, have multiple guilds fill the spill (methinks I said that right) IE:8 guild groups of 4, somethin like that or 4 guild groups of 8 or maybe both ^^, and then just fill in with other players.

God's Will

God's Will

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

Rogues of Bastion

R/E

01 Jul 2005 at 15:18 - 88
if this happened their would be uproar from the pve only crowd...
(they dont care about the pve'ers blah blah blah)

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

01 Jul 2005 at 15:21 - 89
*cough*forPvE'erstoo*uncough*

Kaylee Ann

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

01 Jul 2005 at 15:35 - 90
It won't happen for two reasons:

1. The skill sets in this game are not tailored for those types of battles. People will just spam EoE or other silly things, meaning your arguments of skill go right out the window. One necro could kill an entire team of 32 with a putrid chain reaction. So now not only are you talking about coding an entirely new part of the game, but you now have to redo all of the old stuff, which sorry to say boys and girls, isn't going to happen.

2. 24 hours after this patch is put in everyone here pushing for this to get implemented will be right back here crying about how the top guilds in the game are allied up absolutely slaughtering everyone 24 hours a day. There are countless threads already on how tombs is 'flawed' because people are getting run over by the top guilds constantly.

Xelig

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

01 Jul 2005 at 15:37 - 91
I admit I haven't read every post in the thread, but I really like the ideas I've seen.

Even if the PvP version didn't earn faction or fame, it would be great fun. And PvE raids would be nice to see, too -- not necessarily single big boss targets (as tends to be the case in other MMOs) but all-out war against an army of mobs.

But PvP armies and large-scale tactics... now that really catches my interest.

PS - Ancalagon's avatar 4 teh win

Dralon

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Stillwater, OK

R/Mo

01 Jul 2005 at 15:40 - 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancalagon06
Perhaps they already thought of this, but, I really think Arena.net should take the next logical step in the PvP section.

Make a true massively PvP map. 32 people to each side. A plethora of siege equipment. Tunnels that you can "unlock" to go under the enemie's walls by gathering rare red iris flowers (yeah, I know, a weird item, but it'd work) to give to a collector so he'd turn it into an explosive to blast open the jammed shut door.

Well, there are other ways to go about it, but, seriously, a 64 man battle would ROCK. I'd love to see a Aeromancer-Monk team of 32 people go head to head with War/Necs and Mesmers. With observation mode on the way, it would be awe inspiring to watch.
Great idea. Especially if this is done in an arena fashion where randome people are matched together. This would eliminate a few guilds who know all the tricks always dominating these matches, and would give us small guilders the fun of a large battle.

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

02 Jul 2005 at 22:37 - 93
aye, aye, skipper!

Aidan Gawain

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jul 2005 at 23:24 - 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancalagon06
that's why people have suggested that it be broken into teams of 8 that are just allied with each other (in other words, like the Ascalon Guards you run across from time to time). I understand what you are saying, and I think it's valid, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way around it, or that this shouldn't be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly
yeah, but alliances in this major battle are needed. As for the "heal party" thing, as i stated earlier and somebody reiterated later, we could have allied teams of max 8 players. No cap on how many people in each team, just 1 to 8, and no cap on how many teams are allied, as long as the total doesn't exceed 16 (or 32, whatever)
I know - I was the one who suggested multiple teams of 8! DrSLUGFly responded by saying the teams should be able to split up any way they wanted. I was only responding to his idea of allowing teams over 8, not to the general topic of large battles. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear what I was responding to.

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

13 Jul 2005 at 19:09 - 95
bumpety, bumpety, bump!

Ancalagon06

Ancalagon06

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

In my pants of "superior strength"

Royal Orrian Foreign Legion

W/N

14 Jul 2005 at 01:42 - 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann
It won't happen for two reasons:

1. The skill sets in this game are not tailored for those types of battles. People will just spam EoE or other silly things, meaning your arguments of skill go right out the window. One necro could kill an entire team of 32 with a putrid chain reaction. So now not only are you talking about coding an entirely new part of the game, but you now have to redo all of the old stuff, which sorry to say boys and girls, isn't going to happen.

2. 24 hours after this patch is put in everyone here pushing for this to get implemented will be right back here crying about how the top guilds in the game are allied up absolutely slaughtering everyone 24 hours a day. There are countless threads already on how tombs is 'flawed' because people are getting run over by the top guilds constantly.
By making the various teams allied within each war party, but a seperate unit, you eliminate the potential problems from party-effect spells. *shudders to think of the effect of 8 monks all casting heal-party at once*. Of course, you are going to have one war party try to have 32 rangers, each casting spirits, but maybe by the time this gets implemented, A.net will have fixed spirit spams so that each ranger can only have one of each spirit they have a skill for.

I've been told, this of course having not been confirmed, that A.net did a couple tests with really, really large battles, to see what would happen. Apparently, it was favorable, but I'm not sure as to the specifics.

Anyway, I once again ask that, should a member of the A.net team read this: GIVE US A WAR!

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

14 Jul 2005 at 01:55 - 97
Amen. Give us a war, or forever will we have to put up with tiny small scale guild "skirmishes" at best that give no feeling of motivation or of being immersed in a real fight.

DrSLUGFly

DrSLUGFly

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

European Server or International

14 Jul 2005 at 03:39 - 98
Three cheers for bumpage and optimism!

/cheer
/cheer
/cheer

Antilles

Antilles

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Silverdale, WA

Confuzion

W/Mo

14 Jul 2005 at 03:57 - 99
That be friggen sweet, but would take a hell of a lot of corrdination on the teams' part.

Jaythen Tyradel

Jaythen Tyradel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 13:21 - 100
As a PVE player, I like this idea.
Im not interested in the PVP aspect except only working on Tombs just for the skill and reward for being able to make it there and take or hold the Hall.
Now for the War aspect..I am for it. I was debating on buying Lineage 2 based on the War idea that the game had before I heard about GW.
GVG is a nice idea, however finding a competent Guild or a guild with active players is somewhat difficult. (that is why I am not in Guild right now)
The WAR idea is nice for it will allow people to compete PVP with or without a guild on a large scale envirnoment.

The only um...problem...is that you might have a group of 64v64 dance parties.

Carinae

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

14 Jul 2005 at 15:05 - 101
This would be better if the radar screen didn't show what the other team was doing. It should show all of your team, and only the enemy players that are in visible range of your teammates.

That would allow strategy between teams, and IMHO is a big problem with the current PvP. You can't sneak up on the other team. They can always see you coming.

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

14 Jul 2005 at 19:40 - 102
Yeah, I hate that....

Ancalagon06

Ancalagon06

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

In my pants of "superior strength"

Royal Orrian Foreign Legion

W/N

21 Jul 2005 at 04:04 - 103
I don't think the presence or absence of the compass map will matter much if the maps are made as big as we want them to be. I want huge maps. HUGE!

Guild Master

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

N/W

21 Jul 2005 at 04:17 - 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancalagon06
Perhaps they already thought of this, but, I really think Arena.net should take the next logical step in the PvP section.

Make a true massively PvP map. 32 people to each side. A plethora of siege equipment. Tunnels that you can "unlock" to go under the enemie's walls by gathering rare red iris <a href='http://consumeralertsystem.com/cas/zx-hclick.php?hid=48' target='_blank'>flowers</a> (yeah, I know, a weird item, but it'd work) to give to a collector so he'd turn it into an explosive to blast open the jammed shut door.

Well, there are other ways to go about it, but, seriously, a 64 man battle would ROCK. I'd love to see a Aeromancer-Monk team of 32 people go head to head with War/Necs and Mesmers. With observation mode on the way, it would be awe inspiring to watch.
You forgot one little detail for every character: mounts to make them faster on the battlefield!

RTSFirebat

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

21 Jul 2005 at 05:57 - 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild Master
You forgot one little detail for every character: mounts to make them faster on the battlefield!
There is the talk of mounts again >_>

Ultimate_Gaara

Ultimate_Gaara

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

BC, Canada.. how aboot that eh?

21 Jul 2005 at 06:49 - 106
if you want mounts go to WoW, end statment

As for the war, i think it would be great, even if it was just a once a week event or something.. anything to make Guild Wars to live up to its name... but right now i guess they are focusing on the structure of the game, so i dont think we should expect it any time soon (if ever)

R F O X

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

NC USA

Acolytes of Anguish [aOa]

W/P

21 Jul 2005 at 09:35 - 107
Well i personally dont think you should have the time to be able to set up a team and skills before you fight that takes the fun right out of the raid.

what do you think ppl did back then when there towns and villages got attacked unexpectedly they did not say hey mr.enemy can wait outside of our village until we put together a team and tactics and get all of our strongest stuff ready before you attack NO!!!!!!

Rather they put groups together on the fly and defended there village.
If you can gather a team up while the battle is going on then you will do good. But i strongly disagree with being able to put it all together and get rdy for invasion.

And if you are worried about lag. this is very simple to take care of all a-net has to do is put a limit of no more than 50 ppl per district all the time.

This would help with more than just the invasion lag also

No more super uber trade channel spam in lions arch d1 or old ascalon d1.
No more districts so pack out that you cant tell where anybody is.
and other things as well but you get the idea.

These invasions should random and attack from all sides of the city if you are lucky enough to make it out alive then you and everyone else that is still alive should get some kind of good drop and exp. This would help the market in GW as well.

But trust me i love the idea of this tread about the invasions it would add some spice to the game and to those that have beaten the game and done everything else.

Ol yes and by the way i think the monsters in the invasion should match there territory but i think that each invasion should have different lvl monsters that come into the districts from lvl 10 up to lvl 24 so you dont get the boonsticks that will camp the lower lvl cities.

plz dont flame me for my suggestions that is all they are is suggestions but i would like to have feedback on it.

Omega_2005

Omega_2005

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

UK, or is it? *confused*

A/Rt

21 Jul 2005 at 09:45 - 108
Ah! Something like a war in all areas (excluding Towns and outposts)? That would be brilliant! There should be 4 parties on a map and if they choose to become hostile, then there will be a battle almost instantly! This will make the game a lot more interesting during quests....

I think THIS was what Guild Wars was supposed to be like!

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

23 Jul 2005 at 13:35 - 109
Maybe, in PvP, they could have PvE areas, and have a constant war going on, that'd be fun, y'know, automatically drafted to a team, etc. etc.

Rieselle

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Melbourne, Australia

E/Rt

23 Jul 2005 at 13:55 - 110
You know, when I think of "Guild" "Wars" I actually think of smaller scale battles... maybe it has something to do with "thieve's guilds" and stuff from Forgotten Realms AD&D novels, but when I picture it in my mind, I'm thinking of a rich city, with no external threat, with nobles bickering for power under a peaceful facade, and a weak king.

I'm thinking of raids in the night, with small groups of civilian-dressed troops rushing a mansion and assassinating a political rival, fighting through his guards.

I'm thinking of gang wars over territory, with neighborhoods being intimidated to support one or another side, with clashes on the streets that are vicious and bloody but leave only a handful of bodies when the authorities arrive, etc, etc.

It'd be really interesting to play a game in that kind of environment, but, alas, with it's cookie-cutter Apocalyptic Save-The-World storyline, GW will probably never be like that. Maybe they can have a "prequel" story arc in an expansion, covering what happened during the "guild wars" :P

DrSLUGFly

DrSLUGFly

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

European Server or International

23 Jul 2005 at 14:15 - 111
That would be cool. A game actually about the very shoddily-hinted-at guild wars that took place before the searing.

Swarnt Brightstar

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

23 Jul 2005 at 16:36 - 112
Fun, fun, fun! I like it! Make guilds larger, etc. etc. pimpin' ^^

Crom the Conqueror

Crom the Conqueror

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

New York

Rage Three D

W/E

23 Jul 2005 at 18:55 - 113
Woo Fun fun. Totally support this. But why stop at 32 on each side??? Make it 100 on each side!!!

MoldyRiceFrenzy

MoldyRiceFrenzy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

Santa Rosa, CA

Confusion in The Ranks[tArD]

Mo/W

23 Jul 2005 at 21:11 - 114
Yes i would be so FRIGGIN happy for A WAR YA , maybe for the window it only shows the men in ur area so it wouldnt have a huge scroll down list. war = good to me

speedtouch

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canada

Mighty Crusade

R/Mo

23 Jul 2005 at 22:02 - 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonzai
What you're asking for is DAoC. Go play that instead. Mass combat makes it less about skill and more about numbers.

/NOT singned
There are two things in that statement that I don't like.
1.Demanding others to go play other games that has their suggestions.
2.What about 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 combat?They don't have that implanted, so it must be about numbers.

Anyways, great idea, only problem is that it would slow down those less fortunate people that don't have low end computers.

Miss Innocent

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

I wander.

Mo/R

23 Jul 2005 at 23:23 - 116
I'd see absolutely huge battles as a diversion. Too much "all 32 of you focus on that one guy.... yes, that one". The interface in GW seems a little frustrating sometimes --although "hit T to attack my target" is great, finding the target to call it in the first place is a little bit harder.

I'm not terrbily opposed to huge battles, but it's something I'd never take part in. Fielding 8 is a bit of a challenge at times, even in large guilds. Finding 32.... not something easily done.

Ascension

Ascension

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ontario, Canada

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

23 Jul 2005 at 23:52 - 117
First off, I'd suggest a revamp of the HoH to make it a better battle enviroment. Filling the teams, giving insentives NOT to turtle, and insuring lag/pathing defects to a minimum.

In terms of mass scale combat being stupid, all depends. Hate to say it, but let's look at WoW. Sure, most raids on XR get shafted because their run by idiots - but a real foce bypasses that. With organization and communication to a high degree, it becomes pretty strategic. Granted, it's not all about you - it's about the force as a whole. That's why it's so appealing, you have your squads and you're collectively working to smash the other team. It's a whole different realm of strategy, but it's the yang to the ying in terms of PvP. 8v8 has just has much a place as the 16-32 end of things.

The question in all this is the implimentation. Basically: can the engine support it? On the pathing end of things, probally not.

Before huge wars, I'd want this for PvP;

->Matchup system for the Compeditive Areas
->Improved HoH availabilty, balance, and mechanics (lag, pathing, matchup).
->Better template builds, to represent near-all areas of PvP with more mainstream builds.
->Allow for some template custimization, this may be exploited a bit - but by most it will only allow for a better PvP experience.
->Custom templates, basically a save of characters you make so you don't have to continuously make them over and over (there's only 4 slots, it happens a ton).

In terms of progression to a war;

->Improved pathing
->**improved chat system**
->modified call system (locks, 1 call for 1 person - the squad leader)

Argon The Seeker

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

24 Jul 2005 at 01:17 - 118
This is a great idea!

To the people who say itwould be hard to cordinate it really woulden't be any harder than an 8 on 8 match if you did it right. The would need to give you about 10 minutes before the war starts to make plans.

A good way to do it would be to create small teams within your large group maybe about 4 people a warrior a ranger a mage and a monk then split up and search the map

Another good way would be to stay in a lage group with warriors in front rangers near the middle nukeing mages also in the middle and the enchanters in the very back The warriors would break into the enemy while the middle people attacck from safty and the enchanters weaken/ sap the life of the enemys

I really hope someone from Anet sees this this would be a great addition to the game!

TheGreatBoo

TheGreatBoo

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

PA

Once again I'm a free agent. Quality guilds ahoy?

24 Jul 2005 at 01:19 - 119
Yeah, that would be good. However, I think that a battle that large would be a lag fest.

Ancalagon06

Ancalagon06

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

In my pants of "superior strength"

Royal Orrian Foreign Legion

W/N

29 Jul 2005 at 20:51 - 120
But Guild Wars can support 6 teams of 8 players at once, so even that is possible. 24 v. 24 would be hella cool.