It's all Seek-the-Monk

Now that I've gotten to the upper levels in PvE (ascended, etc.), everywhere I go it's "group seeking monk" and "need monk" and "looking for healer" while most others go begging. They're very useful, of course, but there's just something wrong when the game turns into a grab-a-monk contest. I've seen groups wait 20 minutes trying to get a monk. It's to the point now I just grab 7 henches and go; I'm sick of the whole group-forming scene as it has become. I'm bringing up a monk of my own, so it's not like I'm anti-monk. And yes, this problem or something similar crops up in most online games of this sort. But are there some fundamental elements of player psychology that developer after developer fails to account for? Or do they just not care if supply-and-demand issues clog up group-forming?

PvP is like that.

In Shadowbane it was the same, get the healer.

Seems any game that has a healer type, that healer class is target no. 1.

Well, a healer class provides the most benefit per character slot, since in PvE, damage isn't all that necessary, you can just work mobs down slowly, if need be, since they aren't smart, and missions are essentially just mini encounters over and over, and they provide backup and a safety net, therefore allowing some stupidity, which can be prevalent in PvE pugs.

oh, sorry read your post wrong.

Healers seem to be the indemand class for most games.

It's a real bummer to, I'm sure that evetually other way to mitigate damge will be tried and used, but for now monks are wanted.

It does seem that ther eis a shortage of monks. But the way some people brow beat them, I'm not surprised there seem to be very few.

Any decent group can finish any of the quests/missions I have played (up to Druids Overlook). I can't respond about anything beyond that (duh . They are not that difficult with teamwork and competant players - the Beta missions were much harder.

I form PUGs just by calling out how many bodies I need - I'm not terribly worried about what classes respond. And the ones that drop when they see no monk - didn't need them anyway.

If you *really* feel you need a monk, grab the NPC healer - again, a good group can even keep her alive...

All of my characters are except one are monks. I like being a monk.

Beta was ALOT harder. Remember the Wilds on the 2nd or 3rd to last BWE? Eek, that was impossible with all level 20's.

From the current playerbase on the English Districts on EU server, it's quite easy to see why there are less and less monks.

It's hard to play monk, because you constantly have to keep an eye on your party's health meters, and if you slip up, it wont be long til one of the arrogant people in your PUG decides to tell you that you suck.

Also, my girlfriend plays monk, and feedback i get from her about it is that the two single most annoying phrases are: 'Heal plz' and 'Rez Plz'. Usually spoken in a manner that suggests the monk doesn't actually do these things. Look after your monk, and your monk will look after you.

Monks seem to be the most sought after class, yet the worst treated.

Yeah, I made my first character through the game a monk, mo/w, specifically, and we weren't in demand half as much as now, I'm on my third char, a r/n, and needless to say, I'm experiencing the other half of the meter, I did every mission until the desert with henchies, but it's essentially impossible for a level 10 r/n to get a pickup in dunes (probably for good reason =P) so I'm shelving him until guildies run it again.

Finding a monk requires clever advertising. Two of my most successful appeals:

"Want to give your healing skills a good workout? Join us!"

We had a monk in less than 10 seconds. Another pitch:

"Group in desperate need of a monk because we suck!"

Immediately got whispers from two monks!

I get a lot of flak on my monk when people die. "OMG why didn't you heal me?!" I really hate those kinds of people, but they're easy to ignore. I actually started a monk because I wanted to see what it's really like behind the veil of healing, but also because I noticed how hard it is to get one, there's such a shortage. Oddly enough I don't think it's too hard being a monk, I thought it would be a lot harder (I'm at Frost Gate right now, not too many people in my groups ever die.)

I am said girlfriend, and it's true, I can see why people quit their monks after major cities in the game (sorry, didn't want to spoil it for players). Most of the time we don't get to see the game. It's all just following the party and watching the health bars. Forgive me, I almost said team instead of party, but it gets so hard running in 5 directions after people when you warn them that you can't be healed if you're far away attacking 2 mobs at the same time.

Being told how to do your job also gets annoying. Spamming chat telling me "I'm dead!" or "Joe Bloggs is dead!" as if I hadn't known is irritating to say the least. I've been watching your health bar for the past 20 minutes, and I'm cursing that you're dead because it's my fault, but now you're not the most important thing here, you're dead. Give me a minute to save the rest of the party. Spamming "rez plz" also isn't helping, because that, is the least appropriate language to use when wanting something from someone. I know you're dead, the party knows you're dead. You wont be left, don't worry!!

I play healing monk, not prot, so I don't know how their lives are later on. But the few times I have played prot monk, being shouted at because I don't heal got so annoying I was forced to spec differently. People shouting "heal plz" doesn't work with prot monks. You get accepted into a party fast and then they zone or start the mission, and complain that they're buffed up to their eyes, but they're not getting life back and I'm standing around doing nothing. Take time to talk to the monkey. We don't all do the same job..

One monk will not surfice more often than not. Unless you've got a lvl10+ in Ascalon, you've got problems with just taking one. One monk cannot heal 4 warriors and an elementalist. It can be done at a stretch, but today I have had to go through some later pre lvl20 quests and going through areas swarming with lvl20 monsters. People leaving half way through the trek isn't fantastic. It aggravates the monks and degrades their skills and abilities. Leaving with the words "n00b monk, *profanities*" will really want them to stick with it.

Heal plz doesn't work. It makes me want to leave you to die. I don't tell you to "hit that" or "firestorm that", or "use axe", and I don't appreciate it back. Fine, stick mending on and /pout. See how fast you live honestly. Especially in the middle of the game, where the monsters are throwing poison and mesmer skills. See how fast you live.

No wonder monks loose interest and take up some other magic. They more often than not get nothing but backchat from other players. As Alathys says, look after the monk, and the monk will look after you. Show them the same respect that you would the other players, and they'll be great. You never blame the mesmer for not being uber powerful, give the monk the same courtesy.

(Btw, I'm sorry for the rant, it didn't mean to get this bad, I've just had a bad day with my monkey )

Haha, sorry about your problems, and I can commiserate a little, but that's definitely going to be my response next time I see that. Whether I'm the monk or not, if I see anyone say Heal Plz, I'm going to say Axe Plz every 1.33 seconds until I'm seriously annoying/bored =P

Nice I think I'll adopt the same. I guess a lot of monks aren't the same as me, but I'll admit that I've got a hot temper, and unfortunately it comes through too fast. But I'll start to do that instead of being mean now. You may have saved some people's /death tallies...

Haha, I try. I don't know, I think monk in PvE = really easy, especially after playing so much high end PvP with one, so I don't take PvE very seriously at all, especially since I only farm/help friends with my monk now, him having finished everything.

monks are dry because they are only 1 class out of 6, but are always required regardless of a situation

I understand the posters point on monks being overly needed, but what REALLY makes me sick is seeing "group looking for second monk." Second monk? What the heck are you talking about a second monk.... With exception of the last mission, a second monk is never required.

PvP also has this monk issue, 5 groups standing around in every district looking for a monk. And when it begins time to fight, all that matters is kill that monk....

I am hoping that this problem is recognized and that a second type of healer is introduced...shaman or something.

I've had decent luck with PUGs while playing my monk, I've logged over 200 hours with her and haven't been cussed out more then maybe once. By the same token though I think I've only been thanked for healing or told that I great job keeping everyone alive a handful of times.

Also I completely agree with how annoying it is to see people beg for rez's and heals. Like it was said above I see your health and I know you're dead and when I'm not busy healing the other people that weren't stupid enough to try tanking with a mesmer I'll get to you. I especially hate it when people spam their health when it starts getting low. A big problem I've been seeing is people trying to tank with builds not made for it. I'm usually too nice to just quick healing them, but after awhile I just make them my lowest priority.

Something else that bugs me is after tough battles when I'm running low on energy I'll call it out with ctrl. It almost never fails that some jackass thinks I'm trying to be clever and starts spamming their health, moral boost, and expierence thinking I'm doing it to show I'm cool or something and then they usually run off aggroing something before I'm recharged.

One more thing that bugs me is groups that don't let the tank aggro things. It seems everyone just HAS to get that first shot off on that big mob, like it's some mark of honor or something, of course the mob usually heads straight for the idiot mesmer/ranger/elementalist that fired and runs right past the tank.

It's much easier for me to heal 2-3 tanks taking all the damage then it is for me to try and heal the idiot caster being ganged up on. Of course the caster never tries to dump the enemy off on the warriors they either run (more often then not right to me, thus dumping the enemy on me. Thanks alot.) out of healing range or right into another group of enemies or else just sit there and get pounded on.

.... which is why I charge to be in groups. Ok, I am kidding.

I play a level 20 mo/me (formerly mo/r), and all in all, i find it quite rewarding. I think in PvP monks have the most challenging job, as 9 times out of 10 they are the primary targets in the group, so not only do they have to try to get/stay out of harms way, they also have to keep the other group members alive.

Agreed you do see more of the group health bars than anything else, but if you don't stay alert you'll find yourself in the middle of a maelstrom or chaos storm and all your energy will have disappeared after casting 3 or 4 heals.

PvE has lots of idiots - less so after ascension, but they are still around. Spamming health is ridiculous, do they not know how a monk is played? The monk probably knows how much health you have better than you.

One group I had, the warrior must have had armor 10 or something like that in one of the post ascension missions, then he'd run into the middle of a group of enemies after a large fight without giving any of the other group members a chance to recharge. Soon enough he'd spam his health then die.

"---- I NEVER DIE THIS MUCH"
"REZZ ME ----"
"ARGH THIS IS SO ANNOYING I HATE DYING"
"---- ---- ----"
etc.

This and people running off trying to take on a team in pvp solo is what i find most irritating.

on the plus side - if you tell the people what they have done wrong, and why they are dead & having their body guarded by an enemy team, they may listen - and perhaps learn.

^^ Hah!!! That's funny. No. What you get is this, "STFU N00B monk can't even heal me and trying to give me advice."

i agree on the watching healthbar thing. Ive a pve first poff monk, warrior necromancer and nearly lv20 element. Ive never even created a pvp character. I liked to play the warrior and element the most. Necromancer was ok with creating bone horrors and stuff but was frustrating because i tried a monk as secondary on my necro wich turned out no good for my pets as heal party didnt heal pets, so it was very hard to keep them alive.

Being a monk means rushing through the game without standing in town looking for a group. When u get past lions arch ppl start to realise they need monks. Before la most ppl just make a group of warriors or something and go.
I think whenever i logged on my monk and needed to go on a mission, i get like 5-10 invitations withing a minute. I wasnt even average level. When most ppl are lv 17, i was still lv 15 and yet i still get invited by so many.
Thats the good point of being a monk, u can be picky in what group u want to be in.
Bad side it that u can not hardly see the beatiful areas and stuff. When u go on a mission 90% of the time ur watching 6/8 red healthbars. Thats really a shame, because being a monk is ok, but a bit boring to watch other ppls health all the time. If u go smithing, most ppl complain about u being a monk and should heal and stuff.

I think Monks should get their own, special, private command: /idiot

This is pre-programmable to state what ever the monk feels, and they can then use this to respond to someone when they demand res. For example, my monk's /idiot would respond with "LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROY JENKINS, you ain't, wait a minute"

Also, while I totally agree with this post, and I never type "heal plz" or "res plz" I have been screwed over badly by a monk. For example, in two different missions, with two different groups, I died and was then not resurrected. For 10 and 32 minutes, respectively (they actually finished the mission without me). So, just like not all players (okay, a lot) are not appreciative of their monk, not all monks are good at their work.

Indeed, indeed. This is so much the case, if fact, that I instead of making a necro primary, I will just make a third monk w/ necro secondary.

Some times it gets boring, but thats when you let your party members die

I've finished the game with my monk now (2nd character) and i used henchie's all the way to the asension trials.

Fortunately i've only had 2 bad experiences with PUGs, once in Elona's reach when someone called me a s**t healer (needless to say this person stayed face 1st in the dirt for the rest of the mission) and in thunderhead keep where an ele decided to agro and tank 2 mobs whilst the king followed her.

After thunderhead i finished all the mission on the 1st go by picking my own team (and not joining that group of 7 W/Mo for the last mission).

Yeah, the other day I was in a pickup group and one of the warriors would shout HEAL every time he lost just a little bit of life. So I just started spamming "HIT THEM! HIT HARDER!" at him....he soon shut up.

Monks aren't necessary for PvE. They're extremely useful, for sure, but not 100% necessary. Each class has it's own healing skill for emergencies. Take a healer henchman with you and that is usually enough if you're tactical about which groups you kill and when. With so many people having Monk as a second profession you can usually get by OK even without the henchman.

Anyway, one of my characters is a monk, and I actually quite like being in such demand. I ignore most people, of course. In my opinion it is just rude to randomly try adding you to groups or inviting you to guilds without asking. It shows a casual disregard for what that player actually wants to do; it just implies that you want that player for wholly selfish purposes. If I'm asked and told what it's for, though, then sure, I'll lend a hand if I can. So far I've been lucky and haven't really had many people who are rudely demanding like others have. Even in the random PvP arenas, which is odd considering that's where I've seen most of them.

While monks do sometimes get bad treatment, they are also the only class to consistantly get praise and thanks. I sometimes play a monk and in good groups people will thank you.

In comparison, never seen any member of a party say things like "nice tanking, well done" or "wow! you guys are really great at those AoE spells"

And as my ranger/mesmer, you can bet how many times I've had "hey, well done, really good interruption!"

Long and short of it is that you cant expect people to thank you *every* time you res them or heal them. Of course this is no excuse for abuse...

My answer - the allmighty Reject button. I prefer henchmen to random strangers and for tougher missions I just take some people from guild. It's annoying to enter town and have to reject invitation just because you're a monk - and then deal with idiocy of unorganized group.

The best way I found to get a monk in tombs was this:

First I tried the standard "LFM WE NEED MONKS" that I know good monks don't respond to as this didn't work this became my solution.

I will give any monk whos joins my group a cookie!!!

(cookies are deliverable upon your next visit to a website)

I immedatly got like 5 whispers and join requests from monks. Once they realized that the 6 of us allready in the group were dicussing stargey and how to make our skills compliment each other the monk quit. This happened 3 times and we ended up with a healer and a protector that were quite good. This PUG then proceeded to make it to HoH during peak time for the American teams (about 8:00 PM EST). We lost when it was only us and one other team and they didn't crush us as we fought for alomst 15 miniutes 1 on 1.

(sorry for any spelling errors and if this sounded like bragging)

Anyone that said a monk isn't necessary should go back to the desert...

after all the nerfs around there, it's just a little difficult.

On several occassions in the PvE missions my Necro/Mo has been the main healer for a group. All it takes is a bit of group strategy to make it work. have the warriors use some stances, the rangers too as well as healing signets and troll ungeant. The only difference is my N/Mo doesn't get divine favor for the extra healing boost, but he does get wells and other spells that help to make up the difference. In some missions, I've been able to use area slow and area weakness on hordes and hardly had to heal at all...

I think that part of the problem is that you can't trust secondary healers. I'm not saying they can't do the job and do it nearly as well. I'm just saying the odds are they don't.

The only time I've ever lost my cool was in Lornars when an E/Mo advertised for backup healing. We take her in and she charges the first Pinesol. I'm spam healing my backup healer until I'm zero and then she dies.

The Avicara come because she went the hard way and the party wipes. I handled that well and didn't say a word except to go the other way. We do and she does the same thing. I say, "please back off if you get hit, I can't heal you because I don't have energy to get you and the warrior." She totally ignores me but we win. The next fight the same thing, I finally say, "you need to heal yourself 'cause I'm not going to" and promptly dies. Then went on a tirade of how I don't know how to heal. I apologize to the group and tell them I have to go and they say no and boot the ele/mo and we got a necro and we made it to the Fort.

If she'd focused on healing with added killing power she'd have fit in nicely but she wanted to do damage more and wanted to get healed instead of heal others.

I like being a monk. I think it's not very challenging to be a decent monk, but I think it's very challenging to be an awesome monk. One who stops damage before it starts and can make the decision of when to let someone die so the party survives. It's especially challenging in the most difficult situations and in PvP.

For most characters the more difficult the fight is makes very little difference. If you're a warrior you do your moves and protect your monks and all that the same for a nearly impossible fight as for a simple one. A monk will have a huge difference in how they have to play.

I've had good groups but I think I've been lucky too.

monks and warriors are obsolent, i cnan do anything bwithout them
Still not wrong to have one or 2 of each, but NEVER more.

except spell correctly apparently

I like to organize my PUGs and pick who I want, so I am a leader in many of the missions. But the thing that sucks, is that most of the time everyone thinks the head of the party needs to lead. I've lost track on how many times I've said, "Monks don't lead point into a mob." I just stop and wait for the warriors or rangers to initiate battle, but they stand behind me, waiting to go.

I've stopped many times before a mob and got a question, "What are you waiting for?"

It's tough not to respond, "STFU I'm a monk, you're a warrior, figure it out."

But I've never been cursed out for not healing, because when someone dies while 4 of your 6 party health bars are dropping faster than a bowling ball on Jupiter and you can keep most of them from dying, one death doesn't matter, because they know I kept most of the party alive.

For any PvE mission up until Dragon Eye, Monks aren't really necessary. Without a doubt, monks can and will make your life easier, but you'd be surprised how much of a difference your pug's damage output will be when you don't have a monk primary......but you have to go slow. Ironically, going slow with a monkless pug, however, still seems to go faster the going as fast as you can with a monk in your pug.

My opinion is that the reason we need monks in GW so badly for PUGs is because as I've repeatedly said....It's nigh impossible to form a 6 or 8 man group and NOT have 1 team member who isn't a rushing idiot that aggros every red dot from Ascalon to Augury Rock. In other words, we need monks to compensate for the 'skill-challenged' players in pug's.

It's why we're so dependant on monks, it"s why some monks can have a difficult time supporting groups sometimes, and it's why monks often get verbally abused by noobs in pug's sometimes.

My secondary Character is a Monk who just reached Druids Overlook, and has made a habit of joining nearly every request she gets unless I know I don't have time, and then I'll say so when I reject the offer. Sometimes doing missions or quests I don't even need.

As a result, I have had very mixed groups, in terms of skill, but NEVER have I had anyone really get down and start getting nasty or complaining. I've made mistakes. And people have died for them. I say so, and apologize when I do.

While I've never had the complaints that seem so common, I've only ever had one group give me a compliment. And, really, it was the easiest time I had as a monk in that mission. 2 folks in the same guild dropped over some argument over loot. It's so much easier keeping 4 people healed, and we finished with no problem.

My primary Wa/El, on the other hand, seems to be blessed/cursed with completing the ascention missions without a monk primary in the groups. Elona's was completed with an El/Mo playing healer. Thirsty River with a Me/Mo. Both times the group discussed what it would take to compensate, and both went smoothly with the exception of having folks not wanting to join a group with no monk. Haven't had the time to be on long enough to finish the last one, yet. However, there is a part of me that would like to be in yet another monkless group. They seem to tend to be much more strategic, which is a shame, but fun.

What I really hate when I join groups with my E/Mo who is only skilled in healing (+ Mist Form to tank for 18 seconds and I say to the time "Hi there, I am a healer-only Elementalist"

After about 5 seconds the group usually shouts into the local channel "Group looking for Monk"...

Or when I get bashed for playing a n00b class... well I got 75 energy which can be used for Heal Party, Healing Seed, Heal Other, Healing Breeze and all the other great healing spells.

I mean, I got a PUG thru the Ring of Fire mission easily as the only healer there... and that has to says something at least.

My co-worker and I just got a good laugh on this one. Made my day. Oh how true it is as well. Back to work before they come to injury us code monkeys.

Yup. Groups don't need monks to be succesful in missions or quests. I'll even go as far as saying you don't need monks to win in PVP or halls of heroes.

Every class has it's own healing skill and defensive skill and not to mention the endless amount of team skills like curses, wards, spirits, traps, shouts, knockdown, etc.

Think about it, if you turn on your defensive skill and you're blocking 75% of attacks, why do you need a heal? Or if you blind someone or daze a spellcaster, then you won't be taking damage will you and won't need a heal.

This may be stretching it but, In a non-pug(4v4), if evereyone had a defensive skill and backup healing skill with a daze or a blind (2 dazes 2 blinds total) you'll most likely do better than having 1 monk in your team and probably won't even use that healing skill.