Why does an underworld minotaurus deal so much damage?

The character, with which I first visited the underworld, had at least a AL of 30!

The Minotaurus used Sever Artery and dealt 519 damage! How is that possible?

Sever Artery doesn´t grant bonus damage.

They are special monsters made to challenge those who've reached ascension with max armor.
Btw, AL 30 is quite low too

It is half the maximum!!!! I did have several parts with an AL of 60!

519 damage means you are dead in one blow! There is nothing challenging in that!

I strongly suggest some protective magicks emplyed on your person; either go Earth mage if you have the possibility, or employ some items with armor enhancements factored in.

I suspect the less armored you are, the more damage you take - that seems plausible.

Talesin

Damage is based on level difference, your armour level and their attack value. I assume you brought a low level character there with very sub-optimal armour.

The challenge there is designed for fully decked out level 20 characters. Don't complain if you can't survive there with anything less.

Either you're taking the piss, or it's unbelievable how you even MADE it to UW with an AL of 30. 30 is starting level armor. To be able to even take two blows from an ataxe, you'd need 80+20 armor, and then preferably with some buffs. You're level 20 and still have AL 30 / 60 armor?

Any armor under 60 means the monsters do EXTRA damage against you.

Get better gear. Then try again.

Creston

Level was 20! I am pretty sure nobody would have picked me with a lower level!

I know that I get more damage with an AL below 60. If the game mechanics guide is correct, I would get 168 % damage! Which means with an AL of 60 he would have dealt 307 damage! How is that possible?

It's orgainised group with a capable healer area only and usually available to either America or Korea. 2x for a couple of hours a piece have I played when europe has had favour, thats approx 1.5% of the game time I have put in.
If you are on any other server rather than euro you may get chance to see it.
I am just praying that the 2 new areas are not as deadly or have the same pens as with Underworld and Fussure, working the same principle missions team die equals game over. That method may add to lastability, but I won't add that much and will actually add frustration to a fair few.
Areas of said difficulty may appeal to a few, but they don't appeal to me, and it has nothing to do with skill, but will see, tbh I cannot see there being any real incentive to explore the areas more than once or twice. Time will tell.

BTW my ranger with 70ac +30against elemental dam gets hit for 200, 3 hits = death by the mino's.

Because it's a dungeon designed for people that KNOW what they're doing. The game rewards SKILL, remember?

Try blinding an ataxe. Or bringing Ward of Melee. Or bringing Aegis. Or using Bonetti's Defense. Or using Shield Stance. Use Protective Spirit. Do you need more examples?

They do a ton of damage, that's all they do. So avoid their damage, problem solved.
I can see how you'd complain if you actually HAD decent armor, but you have AL THIRTY!!!!!
Are you even a warrior? If not, why are you TANKING an ataxe to begin with?

Creston

If you're going to the Underworld, the only person a bladed aatxe should ever be allowed to hit is a Warrior primary with 80ish armor. And if you want that warrior to stay standing, you need to put protective spirit, or have fast healing, or protective bond, or healing hands, or shield of deflection, or guardian, or armor of earth, or countless other damage reduction spells. You could even devise a way to keep them blinded 100% of the time. To be honest, I find the bladed Aatxes the easiest thing to deal with in the UW. I could probably solo one with my monk if I went in with only that goal in mind. Now those mindblades.... Try fighting 7-8 of those at once.

You know that enemies very often ignore the fighters and immediately go for the casters?

But actually this thread is not about me being a "stupid player"! It is about the damage! How is that possible?

I fail to see how you can ask that question and not consider yourself... well, never mind.

Enemies go for the casters. And you simply stay put and let them wail you? have you ever considered shaking aggro? Or training a mob onto the warrior?

How is it possible? Hmmm, how is it possible that Grenth does 250 damage per fireball? Because it's simply a value set in their attributes maybe?

I'm sure that Anet's toons do 50000 damage per blow. What's the point of your question? the UW is designed for experienced lvl 20 players who all have their max armor and elite skills etc, so they still have something to do. What would you rather, that that ataxe does 11 damage to your AL 30, so you can solo the whole UW?



Creston

You really need to reevaluate your strategies. As a Necro, I am the quick target for alot of the enemies there. try working with people you know, using defensive perimeters, training the MOBs to your tank, they all make the world of difference between life and death there.


A free web-based wargame you can play from anywhere!

Yes, and no.
Yes to the lvl 20 experiance players. No to the have some thing to do, it is part of the HoH reward for the server. As such it only prolongs your PvE if you are playing on a server that has the favour most of the time, i.e. america or Korea.
The areas are supposed to be uber as they have uber gear.
Although I would question the uber gear aspect as other than xp farming / rune farming there is little reason to go there. Sure the quest offer good xp, but the rewards can be got from easier areas, and the items will soon be unlockable though PvP.

Formulas for all this stuff:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php

This should probably be moved to the Q&A forum.

Someone wearing 30 AL will receive 236.4% more damage than someone wearing 100 AL.

Training a mob to the warrior? You mean the warrior, who already is in trouble because of the other minotaurus?

I did run away, but that area isn´t really big, right?

I thought that maybe someone on this board knows more than me about the way monster damage is calculated?

BTW a blade Aatxe, according to guide have 940 health and 68-100 dmg...so , yes, that damages is normal LOL

I didn't find UW to be very challenging. You just have to communicate with your team and make sure they are all on the same page.

If you follow this strategy you should have no problem:

2-3 warrirors on the stairs spread out in a line, awaiting the ataxes. Then you have a Ranger with a good long range bow aggro the ataxes and bring them to the awaiting warriors on the stairs. As soon as you see the ataxes get close, your monks or whoever has some good protection buffs should lay them down on the warriors. The stairs are narrow enough so that if the warriors strike the oncoming ataxes they will bottleneck them, preventing them from reaching your more vulnerable teammates. Once you are through with the stairs, further on you will find several other very narrow places where you can repeat this tactic. I'm sure the Guild Wars designers put these bottlenecks in for a reason! (wink!)

You should have 1 healer monk and 1 protection monk as well, but if not just 2 regular healers should do the job. Its also nice to have a summoning necro who can provide bone horror/fiend meat shields as well. And finally 1-2 elementalists/mesmers putting down some AOE or in the case of mesmer anti warrior spells on the ataxes.

Furthermore, this game is all about finding a well rounded team that has members that compliment each other well. Don't just start up any random group. A team that is overloaded with one or 2 professions may do well against a couple of the types of creatures in the UW, but in the end they will inevitably get pounded by some other type of creature.

I personally never join a group that has 4 or more of any single profession for the later, more challenging missions of the game. The weaknesses always become apparent sooner or later, as opposed to a well balanced team that has all the different professions working in tandem.

Hope this helps.

Well, true, Europe gets shafted because they hardly ever hold the HoH. the items, though, is no longer true, this got nerfed a few updates back. Apparently loot is pretty mediocre in the UW, as it is in 99% of the game.

Creston

Yeah that warrior. That's his JOB. Your monk has a far easier time healing ONE guy than trying to heal four.
Also, he has three different stances that make monsters miss 50 / 75% of the time. That's 1 out of 4 blows that still hits. Combine that with Ward of Melee, Aegis and Spirit of Protection, plus a monk that ONLY has to heal that one warrior, and he can tank five of the buggers till the cows come home.
But, if by some chance, a blow still comes through, he has the armor and in general the health to SURVIVE that one blow. Your squishie (ie, caster class) does not.

That's the skill / strategy part of the game. It's not just about getting your AL80 armor and then yawning as the rest of the game does 5 damage at most to you.

Creston

first of all 30 is not starter level armor.

second of all nothing less than max armor should be worn in UW. or FoW for that matter. nice waste of 1k gold

For a warrior it is.

Creston

Not a stupid player, just ignorant.
You've replied three times but still never bothered to look up monk skills. First of all, if you tried to take on a shadow mino (That's what i call em, they look like shadow minos >_>) you really should be a warrior. Just because you ran up and took 512 damage doesn't mean a organized party that actually knows what to do will die. First of all, a warrior is probably using glad or some other 80+20 which is 100 armor, this person wouldn't take past 150 dmg. Add a monk with something like life bond or life barrier, that's -50% of the damage, therefore no more than 75%. You can also use protective spirit in occasions which would make it so nothing can do 10% more of you're hp, this alone can save you're life. Unless you have 5120 HP then you won't be taking 512 dmg anymore. Reversal of fortune can take the hit, negate the damage, and add the health for you. Unless you want to read more of my eye-sore paragraphs, I suggest you actually try looking around rather than complaining on how it's impossible.

Adding my two cents for underworld progression. The warrior wall is a tried and true tactic that works well for the entirety of the UW trip. However, you might be wondering how a 5 man smite group makes it through the UW without a warrior wall.

The usual group composition is 1 warrior 2 elementalists (aoe nukers) and 2 monks. One protection monk is nice but the only spell that is a must have is protective spirit, this spell gurantees that the warrior will be able to take 10 hits before death as opposed to the 2 or 3 hit kills an aataxe is capable of. Two healers can be used provided one of them or both are making sure protective spirit is on the warrior at all times when engaging.

Now we come to aggro management, you might be wondering how one warrior keeps the aataxe bottled up without losing aggro. This is achieved by the whole team knowing when and how to engage mobs. Spirit the warrior and have him walk up to the aataxe and aggro by getting within range. At this point all other members must make sure that the warrior is not within their own aggro bubble. If the warrior is within your aggro bubble that means the aataxe will be too and will break off and attack the less armored members of your party. Fortunately, you have protective spirit available from your monks. Ability to react will differ from player to player but a quick monk can throw protective spirit on the squishy who will suddenly be able to take 10 hits before dying and give the healers the time they need to heal until the aataxe can be killed. This is not an ideal situation but is far more preferable than a dead ele/monk.

All spells max range can reach outside of the respective casters aggro bubble thus enabling said warrior to keep all aataxe on him. With two healers + protective spirit and the warrior set up for defense, it is easy to maintain aggro for the duration the elementalists need to kill the aataxe. If energy becomes a problem for you throw essence bond on the warrior for added energy.

This is not to say this is the best tactic or even a valid tactic for anything more than aataxe/grasping darkness/smite crawlers/coldfires as these mobs can be controlled with this tactic. Further UW mobs would require a more fleshed out party. However, this little bit of information may give you an idea of how the UW is managed.

Because they're level 29 mobs if I recall correctly?

Don't ever let any part of your aggro circle touch the warrior while he is drawing the aggro of the aatxe. If you do, they will "notice" you and your low armor level and attack you instead of the warrior. AFTER the warrior has their aggro, you start casting. Also, don't go into UW/Fissure again until you have a full set of the basic maxed armor. You can get it from the desert collectors if you can't afford to buy it.

Boiling down this thread...

Ward against Melee, Blind, Denfensive Stances, Aegis, Blurred Vision ... those will all help you. Raising your armor to the most you can, also a very good idea. Making a melee wall, another good idea.

But the truth to making it through UW is actually Protective Spirit. A lvl 20 with around 500 hp will only be able to be hit for 50 dmg, which easily supportable by a healer.

Pretty simple.

Outside the underworld you deal with lvl 28 enemies that deal far less damage!

Yes the Aataxes deal tons of damage, and ward vs. melee + aegis are not enough to protect against them. Protection monks with protective spirit and reversal of fortune spam are the best option in UW/FoW.

Wear better armor. End of story. Aatxe's are meant to do a freakish amount of damage, that's their challenge. Don't whine and try to divert attention from the fact you went into Underworld badly underequipped and expected better. Your lack of preparedness resulted in your death.

Thank you guys for informing people about UW. I get really frusterated when joining a UW team and this happens....

monk.. - lookin for 2nd monk for UW
me - I'll join you
me - I'm a protection monk
monk - YOU DON'T HEAL???
me - I protect
Monk - protection is stupid we need healers


This happens way too often. People need to think outside the box.

Try going in with a full trapper group - no monks.

You will see how easy it is.

i consider that a good thing, being kicked from a group that quite clearly knows nothing about what they are dealing with. they will wipe early. and you save yourself the hassle of wasting 10 minutes (if that) with a group thats going nowhere.

aatxes arent that hard if you think about the encounter logically. they spike alot of melee damage but are subject to all the weaknesses that come with physical melee attacks and spiking damage. any skill that limits the amount of damage you take can massively reduce that spike. off the top of my head, protective spirit and protective bond. if you use protective bond you need to find some way for the monk that maintains the enchantment to get energy back. if you run alot of enchants you can do this with blessed signet.

what damage that does get through can be mostly negated by heal seeding the target.

aatxes can be blinded, blocked and evaded. you can blind them with throw dirt then spam evasion (mesmer's distortion is a very good skill for spammable 75% evasion). combination of blindness and evasion and as long as you can keep evading and the condition holds you will never get hit.

a combination of blinding/evading and protection on your target guarantees you that you will be living at least as long as the protective enchants on you.

additionally, you can exploit the way creatures target you by setting up a pull properly so that only 1 player ever gets attacked - the protected target. there are numerous ways to do this, either via corner blocking or sending a warrior tank out in front of the group, letting them take all the aggro then moving up and killing. this sometimes requires a bit of planning but its nothing too taxing in my experience. forcing aatxes to attack your single target gives you alot of time in which you can rain AoE down them or let your casters take them out at range.

since aatxes come in 1s or in pairs at most, they are very manageable provided you force them to attack your protected target.

if you dont have any evasion or protection available in your group then its time for your team to rebuild and get some. its not likely you party will be able to outheal the rate of damage you take from a pair of bullies without some kind of damage limitation.

it doesnt require alot of skill or anything - it just requires you to put a little thought into it.

lol, silly people. A healing and a protection monk together are awesome.

I can't believe how this guy keeps on asking "How can this be?", "This is impossible!!"
Listen bud, this is a game, not real life. Bladed Aataxes don't follow certain real life rules, like several rules of physics for example. They follow Arena.nets rules. Which means arena.net makes makes them however they want. Its called designing a game. Thats how its possible. If arena.net wants them to have 5000 dmg, they have 5000 dmg. Is that so hard for you to understand?

If you cripple an ataxe, he will often not go out of his way to attack a caster when a warrior is closer. They tend to follow the nearest target very strictly when snared. Hey, maybe illusion mesmers are good for something?

Do some more experiments, with some better armor. The damage they do, especially with damage reducing enchantments, is certainly healable. At least by me.

the loot is pretty hot on our 3 person smite runs.

The rules they created say no level above 20! And they broke that rule with enemies!

Look at the game mechanics guide! They put a lot of thought in how to calculate the damage! And they broke their rules there, too!

And I want to know is it possible to get that damage via the game mechanics without cheating? What you describe is cheating in my eyes!

They're getting that damage legitimately. Its not like the formula is mysteriously changed for aatxe's or any other Underworld monster. They legitimately do that much damage. Is it possibly for a player to hit for 500+ hp damage? With the exception of Grenth's Balance, I don't think so. But that's what gives the aatxe's their challenge. Their damage, -if you are wearing the proper armor- is high, but manageable.

They told you max player level was 20, yes. Never did they say monsters were confined to the same cap. Furthermore, monsters are given levels above the level cap in order to occur players to use some *gasp* strategy in dealing with them.

Also, this doesn't change the fact that a major reason you took so much damage is because your armor -sucked-. Why are you still wearing 30 AL armor at level 20?