Rebalance for the PVE side of Guild Wars

Ahemmm, where do you think all the runes that you are buying are coming from? I know when they first introduced the rune trader, they were always out of certian runes. Those runes seem to be in stock lately.

I must have dumped 150 or so runes into that trader in the last week and a half, alone. So why are you complaining that you can go buy a minor strength for 120 gold? Just let those that farm for YOUR runes get a little bit of payback.

I sold a Superior Tactics to the trader today for 292 gold. That is insulting. But, I still did it.

Set a minimum price for runes. That is the answer. Maybe we (the Rune Farmers) could cut off the supply of runes and see what happens. We could regular salvage every rune. We could contol the price of runes again and all you that cannot farm for runes could eat our prices.

That's not a threat, just an open idea sent out there to remind those complaining about farming.

Hmm... I made 30k'ish from just 'playing the game as it was intended' from start to scratch. ( I Haven't even finished Ring of Fire, nor ever been inside UW or FoW). The thing is, I don't spend all my money on useless armors/weapons/etc. I can live without them, and I did. My roomate, we play with henchies together to complete the game, has earned roughly 20k from start to finish. They're a warrior, so we actually spent money buying Chaos Axe, high priced armors (not 15k), etc..

If you want money, try to solo a few of the Lions Arch > Desert Maps for a few hours. It's extremely easy to make money, just seems people would rather complain on the forums than take the same time finding the money.


I like to think of GW PvE as an MMORPG. It takes TIME/effort to be rich. I can't think of any other single game, where it's so easy to get your FINAL armors.

I don't sell runes to the trader. if I can't sell them (for a reasonable price) to a player I just trash them. It might be a futile effort....but I'm not contributing to ideaology that inserting a "this trader" or "that trader" is going to help the economy at all....it's just going to make the game easier for people that don't want to have to play it.

Do you really need to be educated here?

When you say "they scurry to patch every little thing two or more of you find to complain about" in YOUR reply directed towards MY post, I think it's pretty obvious.

Or we can just pretend it never happened. Either way, your choice.

I was replying to your post....are you confused?

this is just my 2 cents:

i have finished the entire pve side of the game and all the bonuses that currently work, with the exception of seaboard and divinity.

right now i play almost exclusively, underworld and fissure.

i am also saving for the fissure armour.

shards and ectoplasm vary in cost but typically they veer between 3k and 4k depending on the trader value which fluctuates daily but which normally stays inside this price bracket. lets assume the average and say you can aquire each glob and shard for 3.5k

for a full set of fissure warrior armour i need the following:

75k (15k per peice)
400 iron (150 for chest, 100 for leggings, 50 for gloves, boots, helm)
128 tanned hides (48 for chest, 32 for leggings, 16 for gloves, boots, helm)
120 globs of ectoplasm (45 for chest, 30 for leggings, 15 for gloves, boots, helm)
120 obsidian shards (45 for chest, 30 for leggings, 15 for gloves, boots, helm)

120 globs of ecto x 3.5k = 420k

120 shards x 3.5k = another 420k

net total = 420k + 420k + 75k + 400 iron/128 tanned hides

this adds up to a grand total of: 915k + material costs

i have bought the hauberk fissure peice but cant afford the rest. i now have 3k in gold. 3 ecto and thats pretty much it really.

of the 48 ecto and 45 shards i have obtained thus far. less than 1/3rd of those were aquired through 'normal' play in underworld and fissure.

the drop rate for ecto and shards in both areas respectively is fairly low - about 4 to 5 per hour of play, divided by 8 people. it is quite common for me to play 1 hour and 45 minutes of fissure (the time it takes our groups to complete all the forge related quests and open the crafter) and only get 1 or 2 shards at most.

most of the shards and ecto you will accrue for fissure armour will be from purchases via the rare material trader or from other people. the drop rate for shards is too low at the moment for anyone to seriously consider obtaining fissure armour solely by collecting the materials by playing fissure and underworld. it would take months.

and this is not the only thing that i spend money on. there are secondary profession skills to unlock which costs gold as well as item purchases other than ecto and shards.

for the average person that plays predominantly pve and only casual pvp play, there are remarkably few ways of making over a million gold through 'normal' play in less than the time it takes to create an expansion for this game (which will more than likely have more armours at equally high prices).

now. i have no desire to rip newbies off by selling them them 3/1 vampiric bow strings for 25k, and even then, most wouldnt fall for it anyway. i have difficulty selling items even at much lower than average prices. maybe im not persuasive or rude enough or something. but i get lowballed constantly form people determined to get the better end of the bargain.

in trying to get fissure armour and unlock some secondary skills i have pretty much blown all the gold i ever had and at this stage in the game, the only way of getting money is to repeat missions ive already done several times. grind underworld or fissure. which i have done far too much of already.

or farm.

i personally find farming in this game to be a demeaning and boring play experience and i try to avoid it wherever possible. but for myself and a few people i know that set out to buy fissure armour we really have only got this left to do on the pve side. ill repeat missions with guildmates who need to get through sure. thats 'normal' play i would consider. i did tombs for a bit, but like underworld and fissure, it really burns you out after a while. and the whole experience starts to feel grindy.

im currently broke and i dont really know of any ways of making the significant amount of gold i require for the rest of my fissure set. i need roughly in the region of 600k.

making money from sigil farming the hall of heroes isnt really possible in my guild because most of us are casual pvp players. it is very difficult to make gold in pve without grinding missions you have already done before. grinding uw/fiss or just plain all out exploiting runs of creatures that drop better than average loot. either way you are farming something. its tedious work but its the most reliable and arguably the quickest way of getting gold. and it is continually being made harder for pve players to do this.

You're not complaining?

It's raining cows here too, seriously.

Maybe it's going back to that thing they said...about this game NOT BEING ABOUT GRIND!

Seems that you are the one who is confused, young grasshopper.

It's not about a Grind. YOU are making this into a grind. You do NOT need the 15k armors.

Again, it's all in YOUR head. The grind is brought upon players by themselves being greedy, and want want want.

Clear your mind and relax, young grasshopper. It'll all come to you.

Ive explored everywhere possible if there was a /fog of war clearence command it would say 90% cleared the other 10% is not accesable. But you can only take in the scenary so much.

Then its yes I want something to show for running around for 3 hours grinding/farming call it what you like . Runes are worthless now unless you hit a Sup vigor or absorb the rest you can buy for a few 100 gold.

Great post Raider least im not the only one who thinks the games brilliant but were being screwed and not rewarded for the hours we put in.

Should say on the box Suitable for under 8s only


So why put it there if you dont want people to go for it. If its there then people will go for it. If there was 1mil plat armour that had the same stats as 1.5k armour people would buy it still because theres nothing else to spend your gold on. Ive set out to be the best I can be.

Whats the goal after you have finished the game if you dont strive to have the best of everything thats available, even if its only status symbol with the armour.

Yes I do. I keep the materials that I may need for future armors and sell the rest. If I come across a good item that my character has no use for I try to sell it to other players for awhile, but that's just plain boring imo and I end up selling it to a merchant eventually.

Thanks for the troll tip. Perhaps I'll give it a try.

People seem to still be missing the point here. What you suggest would be grinding/farming which ANet says we should not have to do. Unfortunately that's a false claim on their part. Therein lies the problem. Either adjust that which is not obtainable through normal means, or adjust the normal means to make it obtainable.

What was the question? How to make getting the 15k armor trivial? Because you're right, that's the answer to that question.

You can still pick up at least 5 purple and 1-2 gold armors doing Riverside Giant runs in an hour (a run takes about 8-10 minutes, and you'll almost always get at least 1 purple, and usually 2 or 3). At 1k per major and 5k per superior, you're talking about roughly 2 hours of 'farming' per piece of 15k armor.

Do you honestly want anyone to be able to get their 15k armor with less than 10 hours of effort?
The 15k armor was not meant to be obtainable just by completing the game. That armor is for the addicts. The hardcore PvEers. Not the casual gamer that spent 100-200 hours in game and put the game down after they finished Hell's Precipice.

The 15k armor is there for those who've spent 400+ hours in game, run FoW/UW half a dozen times, or done tons of exploration.

I have no idea what you're talking about....and I'm quite certain you don't either.

Maybe you should take a second and find your retail box and re-read it. Mine says

' Your skill will be your legend ' ' You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat '

If you want a game that rewards hours played, then ' http://www.mmorpg.com ' I'm sure you can find more than 50 games that cater your style.

you are of course correct in a way.

but i ask you.

if you play predominantly pve. what seriously is there to do once you have completed all the missions, got that elusive storm bow and that bow string you wanted for it. and played fissure and underworld a bunch till you got bored?

once you have the weapons you need and a bunch of skills unlocked, there is *nothing* left to do pve side other than customise your character. go and buy armour. etc. its like a new goal you can set yourself albeit you are limited in choice and all are expensive. the fissure set is especially, horrendously expensive. but the other alternative is to...do what?

buy GTA: SA and play that instead? hardly a viable alternative although it would certainly work.

as an experiment i made a quick run in the first part of the game stopping when my salvage kit ran out and the inventory was full

30 minutes got me just over 1 plat and i didnt get any dyes on this trip

that is 2 plat an hour without any real effort and no henchies

if it makes any difference i am an elemonk

as for plans for the game it is less than 2 months old

give them some time to iron out the wrinkles before yelling it is broken

they are planning for the long term not the next 5 minutes or heavens all the way out to next week

Please indicate a single post of mine that contains a complaint I have made regarding this game or ANet. Feel free to insert foot in mouth at any time.

Now, if you're referring to the playerbase, sure, I have my issues there. Too bad they can't patch that.

hmm reading these posts kinda makes me wonder.. to those that want more gold to buy the best armor.. what will you do once you obtain the best armor/weapons...

As Mistress Dasha pointed out... what are you PvEers going to do when they make acquiring the 15k armor trivial? That accomplishment is essentially the LAST thing there is in the game. Once you've done that, there is no more to do!

Basically you're complaining that the 'last milestone' is too far away.

I've been thinking the same thing this entire thread...but didn't want to say anything in hopes that they'd eventually realize it.

exactly.

Umm, hey guy? Go and read this thread again. Then you might actually understand that what you are saying is EXACTLY what I am saying.

Stop with the Q-tip before it hurts, okay?

wear it probably.

in all seriousness, the fissure armour is a goal that players set themselves to pad out the time till the next expansion. that will bring with it new goals.

its not a particularly fantastic gaming model and GW is not by any means the first game to use it. many mmos work like this for example.

but it says alot about the degrading and embarassing game model online rpgs adopt if it takes this long to obtain something in a game and where playing it feels more like work. this is of course taking into account the most viable 'other' option you can fall back on - which is to not bother at all. in which case, theres not really much left for me to do. think i will pick up that copy of GTA:SA then...

This is just IMHO, this game was never designed to be another typical MMORPG, where the PvE side lasts for so long. I've always thought of this game, since I've first read about it, to be PvP mainly. After completing the game upto Ring of Fire (haven't bothered with the PvE side much since that point, too boring for me), I've noticed even more that this game is IMO designed for PvP.

If you want the game to be more PvE based, then I think A.Net are doing a fine job. How many other typical MMORPGs can you achieve ALL your goals so fast? I've never played a MMORPG where I could 'easily' get the last armor available to me. The fact that it takes so long to get the final armor, seems to add longetivity to the PvE side. If they reduced the 'grind' to get the final armors, what would there be left for the PvE'ers? Not much, if anything at all. What's the other alternative once you've gotten your 15k armor?



Just play GTA: SA, it's a great game.

Actually I'm quite clear on the matter. Reading comprehension is my friend.

See Spot Run. Run Spot Run.

Says who? You? Just curious, because I'd like to read the same info you did.

Ideally (in my world anyway) you'd reach the 3/4's complete mark or so, maybe more, obtain the best there is (through normal gameplay) and then enjoy the last 1/4 of the game using your items. After the game is finished, put it down until the expansion is out and then continue on.

This game is essentially a SP RPG that you can co-op with real people online. Once you beat the story of a SP RPG do you keep playing just to farm items? For what purpose since there is no more quests/missions to do? Of course you don't. You expect to obtain them while still having things left to do so when you reach the endgame you've experienced all you could.

right....only nothing you've said pertains to me at all...since I'm not complaining about the grind....

Oh, oops. I have made a mistake. I have gotten your posts confused with others.

It must be the witty sarcastic troll remarks that you're using to raise your e-Ego +1 that got me confused. So sorry.

Kids these days, and their sarcasm.

You did obtain the best there was at 3/4 game play! The 1.5K armor is as good as it gets, mechanically speaking.

In your 'ideal world', what do the people who want to achieve the most do? In your 'ideal world', there are no hardcore gamers. Everyone just stops playing the game after the last cutscene, because they've done everything.

Your ideal world isn't very ideal. Or even realistic.

to say this game is mainly pvp or mainly pve is to miss the point somewhat. people will play the game in whatever way they get the most fun out of. for some people this is tombing every night. for others its doing a story mission. for some its sitting, chatting and dying your armour freaky colours. for others its camping the material trader and buying low. then selling high. the would be stock brokers and economists of guild wars.

some of those i find fun. others not. anet dont dictate a specific way to play this game. they leave it up to people to enjoy it in any way they can.

as for your point about other mmos. you are correct on that one. but that just highlights absolutely everything that was wrong about mmo's before GW if they demanded even more time and social life than this one does now. with ffxi its hard to believe people would tolerate that kind of grind. only in GW you get the empty grind of the old online rpg type formula. just less of it. it doesnt change the fundamental dynamic of games like d2 for example.

and yes, if the fissure armours were made easily available there would be nothing left to do. you are right. that kind of suggests there wasnt much substance to it in the first place. nowhere is that made more starkely evident than the pve side of this game. its on rails. its linear. and its short. and once you've done it. theres little incentive to do it again.

the online rpg formula relies on grind to exist. there isnt really much to online rpgs. what is there is padded out with the need to kill 1 million monsters to get 1000 exp to get 1 level which will allow you to increase 1 tiny stat point which will make your character a fraction stronger. padding out pretty much sums up alot of online rpgs. diablo 2 was all pad. guild wars has less of it for the most part. but then it just means you get to the end of it quicker and realise sooner there isnt really much here in the first place.

guild wars pve uses the same mechanic as the standard online rpg. just shortens the steps in between. it does however show up everything that was shallow and hollow about online rpgs in the first place.

thanks for pointing out the obvious... again when you have your fissure armour then what... your prolly going to stop playing and by your post you prolly will stop before you acomplish your goal..

many appologies didnt mean to flame but a stupid comment deserves one

Yeah, you only like to proclaim the "truth" regarding ANet's lack of a plan when they do things such as introduce a rune trader to alleviate the grind of rune farming.

Memory = good. You should try it.

have you ever been in a situation where you were required to use your brain? or does it just sit atop your head with nothing to do?

you misinterpreted my post and missed the follow up reply. thanks for being oh so uber friendly though. the internet is great like that isnt it?

as for the trash talk here, there really is no need to troll the crap out of this thread. the OP wanted constructive ideas. not petty insults.

in all the RPG's I have played I have never been max just by playing the game when I got to the end. and I highly doubt you have either... just thinking of all the FF games I have played lol. hmm maybe I should drag out 7 for old times.. 8)

Incase you don't know, majority of people who farmed for runes, were doing it to UNLOCK them. Having the Rune Trader did NOT in any way alleviate the grind of rune farming, unless you want to buy runes everytime you start a new PvP character, then I guess you're right.

May I ask, what's the point in ending majority of your posts with a troll'ish sarcastic ( In general - Asshole ) remarks? For kicks? Oh, I forgot... +1!

I've always had the Ultimate weapons before I finished any of the Final Fantasy games..


*for those of you without a brain this is not a post for or against 'grind'...merely a comment about Final Fantasy*

and Childe many appoligies all that was just for the

wear it probally comment 8P.... just got me goat is all...

No need to be sorry, though I do find it somewhat suspect that you would mimic my sarcastic, trollish remarks if they offended you so.

And e-Ego? No, I just like to defend my point of view with a little humor on the side. Funny ha ha, you know?

Now go away, old man, or I shall taunt you a second time.

We are going off the mark here. I wasnt asking for Fissure armour to be given to me. If you read the first post I was asking for them to give a fair base price for a rune.

Fissure armour could cost anything up to 300k+ and I want to try and obtain it but with the money available going down it will be unreachable, I dont mind putting in 200 hours to reach it but at the moment at 25g a superior it will be 3,000 hours to acheive that amount of money with how the games going.

Re Balance the game from the changes they made to accomadate the PVP brigade