PvP and PvE extremists...

Okay this for all the PvP and PvE extremists, zealots, fanatics.

This game is both PvP and PvE.

It's not Unreal Tournament 2005, it's not World of Walking

It's both. PvE is short, and to the point, compared to other of its kind, it's relatively grindless.

PvP is also fun, but it's not UT, and not everything is handed down to you. You win and get rewarded.

So can both the extremists kindly leave this game to those who enjoy both facets of gameplay? Seriously all the bitching, the arguing and the complaining is getting boring, stupid and pointless.

It's a game, some ppl like it, others don't.

I approve of this thread.

I Agree. Some people are just never satisfied. Give them something, and then they demand more. Just enjoy the game as it is. Making suggestion is fine, but they don't have to keep whining about it. Make a suggestion and wait. If Anet implements it, then great! If they don't, then maybe next update ... but for the mean time, devote your energy enjoying the game as it is.

Sorry, wrote more than I was expecting to.

I agree with the OP. There seem to be people who want the game developers to completely sever the connection between PvP and PvE. The game is good, and incoporates the aspects of PvP and PvE very well, IMO. I don't understand the incessant need to separate the two as though they were two different games.

Agree! This game is a nice mix of both aspects, and that's why I like it

I always thought the point of the game was to be good in PvP, get all your skills and armor, and then kick ass in PvP.


Thats my philosophy

. . .so . .hard . . to not . . flame!
Bah~! the OP hits the nail on the head...
Go back to Diablow 2 or EQhell fanatics!
/gives one finger salute

Talesin

I originally posted this elsewhere, but it's significant here as well:

—Siran Dunmorgan

I Partialy agree with you, I Dont think Seperating PvE and PvP should be done but one should have an option to advance the way of there choosing. Right now there is no way you can advance without the PvE portion of the game.

The new system is great and well Designed, Just in my Opinion it needs a few tweaks aswell as vender locations inside the arenas themself.

The way the system is Designed it does not infrindge on PvE players sense unlocks only effect the PvP portion of the game. With that in mind why do some of the venders need to be burried deep within the game?

For the players who enjoy both PvP and PvE I would like if they allowed Faction points to be obtained by RP Toons. Again because of the nature of the system it does not give them any existing advantage, Instead it lets them use there RP Toon as if it was a PvP.

Though im not a rabid fan of the PvE, Im sure I can talk for atleast a few people when I say, Why is the Underworld restricted by what happens in the PvP Arenas? I Can only see this Frustrating players who want to go in these zones at less than Optimal Time for there location.

I See most of the conflict seems to be against these two sides, I Ask why? Does how the other person obtained there items effect your ability to play as you wish? Is there some part of you that feels everyone must go through the same things you did rather than other alternatives? I Just dont understand why one side thinks the other Effects them so much.

In short, Walls just need to be taken down for both PvP and PvE one should not need the other. They both should Coexist without hinderance from another. I Feel that would please the most people and make the Guildwars experance better for anyone who plays.

It just seems like they are killing the PvE part of the game because they don't approve of the farmers/grinders.

I LIKE grinding and finding that uber item and maybe selling it for $8,000,000 gold. I LIKE that.

But I understand that can mess up the PvP side, if someone has an unfair advantage due to great gear. Here's the true solution, and I haven't seen anyone mention this yet:

HAVE SEPERATE ARENAS!!!

Have arenas where everyone may ONLY have certain items (for example have a PvP Armoury where you can equip from any of the 'Collector' class items)

And ALSO have an 'Anything Goes' Arena where you can bash people with that 10000 damage sword.

People can choose to play either Arena style (or both!) and you can un-nerf the PvE economy, and the PvP competitions.

I disagree with this thread.

And remind the original poster if he is tired of people trying to resolve the flaws in Guild Wars in order to make it a better game, regardless of whatever human imperfection tends to taint their arguments, he can always leave the forum.

Just like how he suggests people to leave the game. Except he never shelled out $50 for the forums.

I enjoy both parts of the game, although I don't really take PvP seriously because it has been my experience (not saying good or bad) it's very quick and repetious.

But having said that, it seems to me there's becoming a clash between the two gameplay types. What kills me is that when I first got the game everyone said about PvP, "Oh it's not what you have, it's all about skill of the gamers." Well evidently that is not always the case.

So that's where I think the friction lies, people want to go in and play without having to participate in all the 'grind' of a PvE game, but they do need to get runes, weapons, armor, ect. hence the devs try appease everyone...which cheeses off someone else, yadda yadda

I quote only this snippet to say this; There is a difference between pointing out flaws in a game, and not liking a facet of a game. It is becoming more and more apparent that the developers of the game want the players, regardless of their end-game intentions, to go through the game at least once.

Also, a personal observation... The message has been sent, okay? Some people don't like the way it is. I'm pretty sure we, and everyone else, have seen at least one of the many threads that have been made. It is now in ArenaNet's hands, if they decide that more needs to be done then we'll see, but until then I'd really have to say that everything that can be done has been -- at least in regards to this topic.

I agree, except there is nothing wrong with beating a dead horse if there are people willing to discuss it. I personally skip the thread I don't want to read, but I don't adviocate telling people to give up on a subject of particular intrest to them.

This is a struggle older than you. There will never be peace.

Group Hug time

You can distinguish reasonable people from idiots by noticing who answered in a civil and calm way to the OP and who didn't.

Nice thread, this is a clever way to discuss the matter. Smartasses will try and bring you down Malchiel, but hey, same old.

Someone gets it.

It's Guild Wars. Something we've never seen before, and has created entirely new Genre for itself. The CORPG. People will try to compair it to other genres, but will ultimately fail.

Would you say a FPS sucks becuase you can't level up?
Or than RTS is crap becuase you can't win game with only one character?

Then why do so many insist that GW must be an MMORPG, or RTS, or FPS?

It's becuase they can't get to grips with fact that they have found an entirely new beast.

~Firax

Yeah, Dax understands what I am trying to say, in my not-so-nonchalant way.

Or, he practices what I was preaching. Or some such.

And Evan agrees with Dax's suggestion of a group hug.

If you are refering to my two threads, which I'm guessing part of this is about, then I realize I named them badly. If a mod would be so kind as to change the names to "what players want from PvE/P" rather than "what PvP/E players want". There is no fine line definition, and I realize that. I like PvE a lot too, but when it comes down to it, PvP is just more fun for me. But you must realize, PvE and PvP are two completely seperate parts of the game, and to try and mash them together will never work. GW during the beta, I think, was successful because PvP and PvE were completely seperate of each other. Players could play however much of the other they liked without worrying about this or that. Players who just wanted PvP could jump into PvP using that handly ol' UAS button and a PvP character and had a blast. Those who just wanted PvE, as now, could jump in from presear and complete the game, and then do whatever it is PvEers see as end game. Or you could make an RP character and go through the story, and then when you got stuck or bored with it, you could grab a PvP only and join in on that side. That is simply why Guild Wars used to be good. On release, A.Net hit us with this "you gotta earn it" mentallity. And it sucks.

Finally, peoples who understand. Splitting the game into two sections like everyone has a tendancy to do is just ridiculous. Sure there are some who only play PvP, and some that only play PvE, but the majority of this game's community enjoys both PvE and PvP. That's why they haven't given out a UAS/R, and it's why they put the priests in PvE, the devs want to please the people who play their game. They can pull off PvE/PvP being intertwined, they're doing a damn good job of it right now. It angers the extremists, and those who like both just play the game. I go through PvE, then maybe later in the night do some PvP. And that's the way it should be done.

For those who only bought it for half the game, they can only expect to get half the fun out of it.

Right now, you can advance any way you want. In PvP you can earn faction and unlock items. So you have what you want.

Agreed on the design. I completely disagree on the vendors in the arenas. There are plenty of Vendors in PvE. Just go see them.

So there is a sense of accomplishment for reaching them. Why would I want to play a game for no reward?

I enjoy both PvE and PvP. I believe, but haven't tested, that a PvE character *can* gain faction. As that is now the only reward available for PvP actions. And since a level 20 PvE character can hit the HoH, I would guess that they get faction as well. But again, I haven't tested this. Just a basic theory on my part.

I'm not a "rabid fan" either. The underworld is restricted by the PvP arenas to promote PvP. And to do well so that your country server can utilize the ToA to get the perks that are associated with that area.

It is one game, not two halves. One side affects the other. It seems to have been meant that way. That's just the way the game was created.

I completely disagree with this last part. Without the dependancy there wouldn't really be a game. The dependancy is what makes the game great.

I'm having a blast in PvP without the UAS button. Maybe it's your perception that needs changed, not the game? Guild Wars is PvP and PvE mashed together, and it's great.

Too bad you can't see it.

I would love Gaile Gray to send me a PM to say that they have seen my ideas for PvE and they are implementing them in the expansion.

I would buy her a box of chocolates!!

The problem is...and it's just my opinion, is while they've made PvP available to everyone and sorta separate, many players have made it so the perception is you need all your skills and the best armor.

As a player who wants to play 'through' the game I feel sorta outta place in PvP because I don't have all my skills unlocked or endgame armor. And on the PvP side I can see how someone who just wants to play just PvP would feel the grind or want to jump through the game as quickly as possible to unlock everything.

Instead of thinking what's in it for me, maybe we should consider all points of view. How things affect other people, cause maybe Anet will try to balance things the other way

Would you have any less fun if there was UAS/R?



PS: Your name is from Ren and Stimpy. HA!

Yes. I would.

Is that, by any chance, a result of the advantages you get in PvP just for playing longer? Cause I could quote A.Net saying that that's not what they wanted, but I'm too lazy to do so. Working towards something is fun... It's not fun when that "something" happens to affect the way the game is played.

No, actually. It has to do with the fact that nothing that is given for free is fun for long, especially true in video games. If there isn't some sort of purpose for gathering skills, either by PvE or PvP, then it's not fun. If something is worked for, there is a sense of accomplishment (even if it's a false sense of accomplishment). If it's just given, even if only temporary, there is no accomplishment. To give all PvP players a magical button that unlocks anything they want, removes the reason for PvE.

Hmm. I can understand that. But it seems more like A.Net needs to give PvE a purpose that affects PvE. Like access to the Underworld without favor or something.

oh great idea! i didnt realize that PvP players actually played PvE.

Actually, I do both. To leave out PvE, and only play PvP leaves out half of a game that was meant as a whole PvE/PvP experience is silly to me. The two were meant to compliment each other.

Thank you for a great post Malchiel

I disagree. If this was true, I think my entire perception of video gaming would fall to pieces. Do you have any "proof" (quotes added 'cuz I couldn't think of another word) or is this just your opinion?

If it's your opinion, I disagree completely.



I also feel slighted, as a PvE'er, that you would say giving PvP'ers everything they want would "remove any reason for PvE".

I'm a 100% (well, 99% counting my short spat in arranged and random arenas) PvE'er, and i'm all for giving PvP'ers UAS/UAR.

You are entitled to your opinion. Wrong though it may be.


And I feel that not working for anything, as I have in PvE, cheapens the experience. And lessens the efforts of the PvE player. And removes the reason to bring your PvE character to HoH, or GvG battles, other than to have a different name. All you need to do is show up, and you have everything. No effort needed. I would feel slighted if A-Net ever got the idea that this was a good thing. Thankfully, they haven't.

I play both PvE and PvP. There is a way to unlock things in PvP and never touch PvE now... That's enough for me.

GTA: 100 Packages. Mario Sunshine: x amount of shines. Metroid Prime: All items/history logs. FF7: Creating an ultimate chocobo/getting all the materia. *mind has gone blank from the SNES days* The very early games, there was always something there to obtain, something to collect.

It wont give you world fame but it will give you a sense of real accomplishment. It has been prevelent in many games and it always will be because of human nature. This game was created with that same mentality implemented into it, to change it would completely steer away from the dev's ultimate design they apparently are keeping secret.

At least we know that unlocking skills through gameplay is what they desired otherwise we would have seen everything unlocked from the very beggining.

On top of that, the original thread started is completely correct. This game is not about JUST PvE OR PvP, it is designed with both in mind, for people who enjoy both aspects. Unfortunately we have a PvP crowd and a PvE crowd who just whine because this is not their game. They can go jump. The PvEers can go back to whatever MMORPG they came from and the PvPers can go back to whatever FPS they came from.

The game is not perfect, it is not exactly what the devs invisioned initially about the game, but each update, they are one step closer. And each update, something will go wrong, which is acceptable considering they are only human, so it is up to us to trial and error for them, tell them what works and what fails miserably. Not tell them that the game should be split or completely overhaul the whole concept of it simply because it isn't exactly like the betas. I'd like to see a kick button for instances for griefers to get their ass kicked by the rest of the team and looted of all their armour, gold, weapons and items as well as killing their character permanently because they bloody well deserve it.

I also think realistically and know that will never happen. Does anyone see me whining about this not being implemented? Does it ruin my enjoyment of the game? Possibly, but it's not the devs fault. Besides, I can always try the mission again. Get real people.

I play PvE asmuch as I'm not frustrated with some of the missions, and I play PvP whenver I don't feel like playing PvE. The two complement and balance eachother rather well.

PvP or PvE extremists are NOT trying to "Balance the flaws in the game", they are trying to make their own game. As has been said in the past, let Anet make the game in the way that THEY want it, not the way PvE lovers want it and not the PvP lovers want it; in that way you will see how good the game really is, in the way that it is and not the way it could be.

I for one think that the Faction Point system is a great idea, and they are easy to earn. There is NO WAY that people who have unlocked more will be able to dominate you, for the ONLY bonuses over other, newer or less active players are the Vigor and Obsurption runes. Elites do NOT count, you can only have one at a time, besides, you can make a good build out of almost anything.

Not true, One must still PvE Up to draknors and without guild support its not as fast as some people would lead you to beleave.

I Love the PvP System more than any game I currently have but I Feel its not worth it if I have to spend a large deal of time in PvE with each new expansion pack realeased.

Anyway to say more would just be repeating myself, My Opinion is stated its in Arena Nets court if my views are the same as theres. Other wise I will chalk it up as another Marketing Gimmick and move on to other games.

Why must you do that? All arenas should be open to a PvP character (created PvP that is).

Your reasoning is flawed here. You don't HAVE to buy any new expansions. So, that being the case, you wouldn't HAVE to spend any time in PvE (if you would have to at all).

Hmm, so if their opinion of their game is the same as your you will stay... if not then you will leave even though you really like the PvP system... Hmm... Good riddance I'd say.

This brings back memories.