Warriors underpowered in PvP in factions...

I wondered if I was the only one getting my warrior owned by Ritualists, Assasins and Mesmers in PvP now. Besides not being able to hit anything, all the new skills cause so much massive degen that my Warriors armor feels useless.

Sugggestions?

Flick

Don't worry it'll be all well after the preview event. The same thing happened last time. Since assassins tend to attack quite fast, spiteful spirit completely destroys them. And since everyone and their dog is testing the new professions, you are bound to run into some remorseless necromancers (like me) who stack on spiteful spirit and degen hexes on the assassins and laugh all the way to the priest of Balthazar.

Well I tend to PvP with two builds, one W/R using Melandru's Res and I will survive, the other W/Mo with Healing Hands. What I've found is the MR and IWS don't give you enough health regen to overcome all the bleeding, poisoning, disease, and mesmer illusions like it once did. It used to at least be close enough to keep you alive long enough to attack, but now the degen is too great to bother with the skill.

Also, now with Healing Hands, no one is wasting time trying to hit you enough with melee attacks in PvP cause they can slap on all the degen in the world. Sort of makes skills like Bonetti's, Gladitor's, HH, etc. worthless.

The assasin attacks are too fast, and with the right skills they will block at least 50% of attacks all the time. Meaning all that axe damage is a waste of time.

Flick

eh I've yet to loose 1on1 (going for amber chunks to repair doors, occassionaly run into one having a go) to an assassin in the preview event.

Assassins start off hitting hard, but a warrior adrenal spike rips em apart.

As a Ranger Beast Master, Warrior is my nightmare unless I run touchy ranger build. Assassin is much easier for me than Warrior so to me, Warriors are NOT underpowered. Degen sucks but degen can easily be countered with a simple Healing Breeze to reduce the effect.

I've come to realize that you can own everything in this game. There is no such thing. Some builds you just can't beat no matter what you do. Spiteful Spirit on a warrior with no hex removal is screaming for death, unless you choose not to do anything. It's how Necros stay alive. Without those hexes, they'll die under your sword/axe/hammer in less than 10s if they don't run.

I'm normally pretty bad at PvP, but during the preview event I took a trip to the random arena with my Necro, and spiteful spirit had the hordes of assassins dropping like flies. I'd just enfeeble and spiteful them, and they were all but useless. Mind you, random arena means you may or may not get a monk, so I may have simply gotten lucky...

Warriors were always underpowered - just try killing any anti-war build or prot monk with war and see.

And assassins = wars with no adrenal skills.
Why? Because they only have enough energy to do 1 combo before they're useless.

Warriors got some of the biggest buffs compared to others. Necros seem to be the favorites at Anet though. Their Soul Reaping elites are beyond what an elite should be. They are down right Game Turning. Also look at the nerfs that necro have gotton compared to other classes.

I think assassins in PvP are going to end up like Mesmers in PvE. A popular secondary profession, but pretty rare as a primary. They're just too fragile.

we shall see, but having just won many an alliance battle with a warrior, i wouldnt say they were underpowered. In fact, the majority of ritualists etc have fallen before my blade.

Wow, this thread is full of .. yeah. Warriors are NOT underpowered by any means. "try killing any anti-war build or prot monk with war and see" I wonder WHY couldn't you kill it. Hey! maybe it's because it's ANTI warrior. Just because there's a counter to something it doesn't mean that it's underpowered.

Not only that, but you're talking 1v1 here. 1v1 has nothing to do with a class being underpowered, try fighting a full on anti warrior 8v8 build vs the average dual warrior build. The dual warrior build will end up winning most games even though they are "underpowered".

You need to start playing the game the way it's meant to be played and stop complaining about a class being underpowered when compared against another character completly dedicated to shut him down One Vs One!! Darn.

I suggest you read the thread, "Why Nuking Sucks" by Ensign. That will clear up a lot of your misconceived notions.

To the OP: I really doubt Warriors are underpowered. Just atm, as more people are using Assassins, and a lot of them are new (through the open Beta), lots of people take advantage.

Personally, I haven't met many competent Ritualist, and if they start to seem halfway decent, I just kill their spirits.

Second, an Assassin chain is nothing like a Warrior axe spike. Just earlier today, I sat through an entire 5 or 6 skill chain just auto attacking and when he was done, I turned on frenzy, used Eviscerate and Executioners and used Shock and he was dead. Healing Signet to recover.

You may need to change your build a bit, but I've seen more successful warriors than assassins or ritualists combined.

Dont bother with a warrior, make a ranger and go in 12v12 purely to edge bomb, most fun you will ever have in that glorified random arena.

I agree with you 100% In fact. Have necromancer's had any real changing nerfs that would effect builds?

Such as the nerfing of crip shot?

I doubt it. Bah. Anyway. I'm choosing an R/A because of expertise. Who cares if I don't have 16 dagger mastery. The assassin primarys can get in one combo then have to retreat.

I can have endless combos as a R/A withe expertise + access to nice stance + tiger's fury + apply poison.

Who needs assassin primaries^^

Dont worry. You just dont know how to properly build a warrior. There wasnt a single assasin who owned me without the help of his ritualist or monk. I slaughtered several dozen of em during this weekend. They are weak, since their strength is their weakness. If you want a hint on how to beat em, look at my avatar.

Ritualists, are another story... But I was able to kill quite a few of them when they were singled out from their team.

PS: and dont forget to use the new warrior's "overpowered" armor! It's a real boon.

I rip off lotsssss of "nooooooobs" warriors very easy with a rit/mes high deg/area heling, but find some lone wolf warriros that still hard to kill... why warriors are to easy to kill in this factions special? lack of monks... is very hard see a monk in pve or pvp... and we all kwon... a warriors without a monk is a sissy guy... armor dont mather in a world of degeneration... without a monk to save the warriror ass...

You mean melee assassins. I think we'll be seeing more interesting uses of assassins in the future, with 4 pips of regen like other casters and being less fragile than them.

I play a R/W in alliance battles and see lots of warriors. They usually lose because they don't carry wild blow to end my stances, thus they can't hit me.

Warriors are not underpowered in any way, but due to the influx of new skills and strategies, old builds will have to change.

R/W also easily overcomes assassins too

Just so you know, I said "were" - as in past tense - as in before factions came out.

Just take a look at all those hammer skills that didn't add dmg and have effects easily replicated/spammed by spells.
I.e. gale/shock = spammable hammer bash.

Did you ever play war?
If not, then you should try before making your claim and dismissing me.

When you do, tell me this:
How can this game be based on skill, if there are certain builds you simply cannot overcome while using a particular job (regardless of tweaks)?

Even if this isn't a 1v1 match, shutting down a war is still the same as shutting down any other job - only easier. So now, your team has 1 less member at the cost of 15 or so energy.

Finally, FYI, all I ever do is play war in random arenas, even though war is the most restricted of all classes (poor energy).

__________________________________________________ _____________
The Problem:
If I want to kill, I have to do dmg.

But to do dmg, I can only do 2 (1 if there's a monk) of the following:
survive, chase, unstance, unhex, uncondition, disenchant, or spike(optional, but required vs monk).

So, at best, I have 2/7 chance of meeting someone killable in a team without a monk,
and 1/6 chance of meeting someone killable in a team with a monk.

compare that with a caster (non-monk) minus 1 pick and the conditions:
chase, unstance, uncondition, spike, survive (if blood necro)

and you get 1/3 to 1/2 chance of meeting someone killable in a team with a monk.

ok im sorry for all of you that believe warriors are underpowered but you are wrong. this is like saying that a caster is underpowered because a mesmer can shut him down completely (ex. migrane+interupts or e-denial). get it through your thick heads warriors are not invicible. There are counters to your favorite class as well as any other class. Can i help it if you want to kill people without any thought being put into your builds?? I mean if you must play a warrior and you refuse to accept the consquences and weaknesses of them go w/mo and use purge sig (i forget if that the correct one) since warriors are not that energy dependent and if you im sorry but im not going waste my time thinking of a build to help you. Use the non energy dependency when playing as part monk to your advantage. For the w/r you guys sacerfice your hex removal to do very powerful spikes. Speaking from both experience and logical thinking warriors are not overpowered!!!!!!!!!!!!

---Sry for typos if they are present didnt bother writing in word (was to amazed by lack of critical thinking and too much complaining.

Because those builds that you can't beat are terribly vulnerable to other builds. They're gambling that no one will play a build that counters theirs. If they seem to be winning that gamble a lot, maybe you should change your build.

Builds change over time, it's called the meta-game. I can make a necro who crushes warriors with ease, but I'll be useless against any kind of caster spike/degen/denial. Likewise, an interrupt mesmer isn't much use against an iway warrior.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. GW was never meant to be played alone, thus it is based on skill, but not the skill of one single person.

You know you can counter degen also by using healing sig and healing yourself back to life since degen doesnt hit you and the armor penalty doesnt matter. I've been playing warrior in the alliance battles, and apart from a few smart necros I have been able to survive nearly everything the Luxons threw at me, including several hammer warriors, trappers, IW mesmers you name it. I must have died in total maybe 25 times max and most of it was in 1 battle, and got 20k faction. I'm sorry but I think actually warriors pwn too hard in here. Warriors can be built to be self-sustaining with a few stances and healing skills, and still do decent dmg with 3/4 dmg skills.

I do however think that assassins are a joke. They're not doing any dmg worth noticing and they die real fast too in 4 or so hits.

Of course it is true that a lot of warriors just don't know what they're doing. For example I killed 3 warriors on my own yesterday because they kept fighting through gladiators defence. That's just silly But I see a lot of people making kinda newbie mistakes like this. Like using healing sig under heavy ele fire. Taking frenzy in here. Stuff that will get you killed.

I'd prefer to think that I was debating/arguing my claim rather than complaining - I hope at least, that I came out with a different tone than yours.

I actually enjoy scheming up ways to beat those guys that think they're so great because they were up against something they built against -
but I don't like the fact that sometimes they can keep gloating because their build simply can't be beat by a specific job.

Doesn't it give you more satisfaction to defeat a stronger enemy than a weaker one?

I'd love to see the day when anti-whatever build users get beaten by their prey.

worriors are not over powered. I think they are too powerful. the class that is broken right now is the elemental class. that is the class that needs work.

Weaponwise, I may agree (only a lil bit) with the OP. Seems like a lot of other proffessions got twinked on offense while Warriors got...hammers. But defense and group defense, Warriors are and continue to be a force to be reckoned with. Prot Stance and let the group stand near when the enemy is full of mellee fighters. You've basically dropped Aegis+Guardian on the entire team for as long as you stand still. Absolute evil for these Assassin group builds we'll be seeing soon.

Attack stances though, seem a little weak compared to their Prophecies counterparts. Skills are nice, but closer examination makes many of them very expensive, especially with all the Block attack/Evade Attack skills running lose now. Hopefully, skill balances will address these issues and make new skills realise the potential I see in them. but htats all the new Warrior skills have atm: a lot of potential.

EDIT: the degen issue. Everyone is making it sound like you die before you even get to the target. take a tip from the Droks runners if Degen has hit the meta-game; Endure Pain is a great short term heal.

I am really confused here I don't understand your math here at the end of your post. A war has a 2/7 chance of killing someone??? I can't figure out what that is based on at all.

I also don't know how you can shut down a warrior for 15 energy? You can annoy a warrior for a few seconds but you cannot shut him down. For example, a blinding flash spamming ele. Plague touch, CoP or a monk are all that are needed to get rid of the blind. Pretty simple. To keep a warrior shut down it requires someone from your team to pretty much sit on their face and continuously recast the spells/skills that are shutting them down. In the end this takes up a member of your party and far more then 15 energy.

Also, warriors are not restricted due to their energy. They have adrenal skills which require 0 energy and a zelous weapon on them gives phenomonal regen.

I don't see warriors being underpowered at all. In fact I believe that they are the most powerful class in the game. They are the only class that is able to sustain such a high damage out put over an entire match. They can also release nice DPS with an adrenal spike.

Random arena doesn't teach you much of anything about pvp, and it definitely does very little to teach anyone about balance.

the game is balanced...quit complaining...and if you only play random arena then its your own fault; form a group in Heroes Ascent..and align yourself with healing and protection monks...if u cant do that then call on some guildmates, if u cant do that, then start making friends..take it to Team Arenas work out a 4 man team balance it out then take it to HA...Warriors have damn near 100 Armor Level compared to 60(base) that a monk-mesmer-necro-ele gets... and sometimes +10 physical but at the cost of energy--and if your warrior doesnt have enough energy wear Gladiator's armor. Warrior is the only class that gets a Superior Absorbtion- Global negative damage rune at no cost of Health Points....hint out facts of the class before saying its overpowered/underpowered-if conditions is your problem run W/Mo with purge conditions, not very sensible but hey complaining and finding new ways to overcome are the task this game gives you..war/necs with plague touch..just some insights i had

My Uber Tank can stand all of those guys. That's the one build I'll never EVER post until the day I die And in doing so it won't get nefed

Ok so I played 2 hours more pvp tonight. I never said it was the assassins doing me in. Instead its a combo of assassins (conditions), and mesmers (hexes), necros (hexes). The mesmers are waaay overpowered now since adding the new skills, particularly illusion skills.

For example, a blood necro gets life transfer as an elite... well, mesmers now have a regular skill in the illusion category that does -8 health regen. On top of that they added some other massive degen skills. I counted up and with 10 in fast casting, a mesmer can throw down -21 health degen in under 5 seconds. Add a little poison or disease and its over, and maybe one or two ele spikes or warrior hits and its over without a great monk.

So what if I take remove hex, I'm so busy taking the crap off of me that I can't really do much damage.

To put it in perspective, I took in my blood necro who can usually stay alive longer than most other professions. With blood ritual, life transfer, and life siphon I'm regenerating out the wazzzo. Stealing +55, +78, and +63 should keep me floating as well. But my degens still out weighed my regens. With the new skill recurring hex or whatever, these hex puppies about never leave. Plus the mesmers have a new skill that does 30+ damage and causes more health degen if 2 or more hexes are on a player--- not an elite.

I have to figure a way to slow down degens or I'm toast. I suppose a good spiker team would take out mesmers quick, but I'm obviously not teaming with the right folks.

Flick

You non-war players and your god damn assumptions - let's just assume all the war's problems come from conditions and say put in mend ailment or some shit and everything's solved.
(you people are really pissing me off with your condescending "quit your complaining cuz its all good for me, the non-war player", tone)
You do realize that you've only adressed conditions - thats only 1 of 7 problems wars (3 for casters) have to overcome in order to begin doing damage.

So if you look at the numbers, there's still 6 other scenarios where the other guy completely shuts you down.
(yes, I know you can't prepare for every possible problem, but casters only have to worry about 3 (compared to 6).
That's half the problems, just by being another job).

100+ AL? So what? you're protected against 2 (wars, eles) out of 6 jobs - only 1/3 chance of meeting people where your armor actually does something for you - maybe (obsidian flame, burning eles = goodbye armor)...

And is there something wrong with playing RA?
I like to be able to just jump right in and get a quick fix.

Making a balanced party is good and all, but it means nothing in RA -
and you have to admit that seeing an all war party isn't reassuring.

I bet you whine/complain about IWAY all the time, but IWAY is nothing in - guess what? RA...

Hell, if you want proof that wars are underpowered, just try seeing how far you get with an all war party compared with how far you get with an all anything else party.

Or better yet, just count how many times you've had your a** handed to you by a war compared to any other job.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
You people really disgust me.

I give examples to show that wars are inferior, but you just tell me to quit complaining (ad hominem), or
give an obvious solution to only a piece of the problem such as conditions (straw man).

I've already done it all (almost all anyways, with various war builds):
killed stance tanks,
spike and paladin type wars,
trappers,
kiters/runners,
blood necros,
knockdown and ward eles,
edenial mesmers,
healer, smite, and prot monks (guardian is a real b*tch, but doable),
and outlasted mass degen.

Many times, even solo - can't count on that other war to hurt that stance tank unless I use wild blow for him.
This really freakin happened, the freakin other war with his obsidian armor and green sword/shield was bragging how he freakin pwned them (the other team) when the last guy standing was a stance tank ranger who only went down after I chipped in the wild blow.

But, I've yet to beat Ineptitude/clumsiness/spirit_of_failure/other_spirit_of_failure mes/necro,
SS/empathy necro/mes,
IW mes (too rare to justify enchant removal over something else),
dark aura blood/death necros,
or poison/crippling shot rangers (just try and plague touch that cripple away, you'll only lose energy giving away poison that gets reapplied for free, and that's assuming you can even limp close enough to touch them).

So don't go assuming that I don't change my build and putting me in some rank below your know-it-all-but-never-played-war selves.

Warriors are not underpowered. I have seen all warrior parties own before. Besides, warriors already have the highest base DPS of any class in the game, and that is before you even add any skills into the mix. Here's an idea:

Make a warrior monk with the highest armor (100 defense), sup absorb, sup vigor, and a weapon with +30 and the +30 shield. Now put no attack skills in except for adrenal skills, and bring remove hex, purge conditions, and healing breeze. You have a pool of 25 mana to do anything you want with and are basically a tank. Want to know why fighting as a warrior is so frustrating? Because they are so powerful that everyone always tries to shut them down with blind, cripple, or put hexes on them to make them spend time removing them or healing themselves. It's the only defense we have against you. If you were even more powerful then THAT would be an imbalance to the game. Accept that your class has weaknesses, as do all other classes, and learn from it. If you don't believe me, try playing as a mesmer or an elementalist for a little bit. You would be surprised how quickly they can be torn up by warriors.

A Pure Assassin Prime will rip open just about ANY class on the battlefeild, so long as said Assassin resigns themselves that it will probably be a one way trip.

Once you realize that your Assassin primary will not survive more then 10-35 seconds in a bad situation, you can kill anyone; and then you will die, but your team will be better for your sacrifice.

Iron Palm + Mantis Touch + Twisting Fangs = Death to 90% of my targets, works best on casters.

Viper's Defense + Caltrops, cripple and poisons a pursuing melee.

Average rate of survival after killing targets with 2 or more enemies nearby: 35-40%

Basically what I'm saying is, if the Warrior can survive that initial combo, the Assassin is dead.

But yes, Warriors are underpowered now, to many attack cancelling skills out there.

Warriors are certainly not overpowered in PvP. They do damage, that's all they're required to do, and they do that extremely well. To generalise broadly, the other classes are there to see that the warrior does their job. Which means keeping them clean, and making sure that protections only present minimal problems.

But firstly,
Yes, there is a problem when you base an argument around one arena that is by its nature unequal and does not represent the whole of PvP. You are right when you say that a warrior can be shut down or compromised easily through conditions, hexes and raw damage on occasion. What you are failing to see is that 90% of the time, in all other forms of PvP, where you have the chance to organise a group, the battle revolves around who can keep the warriors clean.
This is because a warrior skillbar that is optimised to deal damage is scarier than everything else-including assassins. It's a fact that a warrior will deal more damage than any other class, when kept clean. Which is why you bring hex removal, condition removal, enchant removal, healing on your other character slots.

In random arena you have 8 slots. Not much can be done with 8 slots, compared to say, 64. As you said, if you counter those seven situations with a skill and bring a res, you're not going to do much attacking. So, in a 4v4 or 8v8 situation where you have control over a team's worth of skills, you can bring enough to ensure that a warrior can just do the damage required to kill people-which is what the warrior class boils down to.

You miss the fact that warriors aren't supposed to remove conditions and hexes from themselves (if they do, they have to spec in their secondary, which is obviously bad because you're detracting from your primary objective)-and the argument that "they should be because I keep getting owned in random arena because I can't do everything" is silly, because if one could do damage, remove hexes and conditions and heal themselves, it would imbalance the rest of the game. They're specialised characters, and should be treated as such.
Self-sufficiency (which is what I presume you want) is anathema to organised PvP (except perhaps on flaggers, but even then a flag build must be made with consideration to the rest of the team)-which is why I can't stress that criticising a class on its performance in random arenas is silly.

Random Arenas are not meant to be taken seriously, and trying to prove something is underpowered in the context of a 1v1 situation (which is what random arena boils down to, as you have no control over your teammates' skills) is again, silly.

Underpowerd?.. what even with the new sentinal armour ?

Im finding this quite difficult to belive, I've been using my current hammer build, but with sentinal armour in TA and, if anything, im finding it a bit over powered.

Even when our monk dropped I was still able to put up a very good fight against and organised team.

As for 12vs12.. some slight adjustments here namley 'I will Survive'..in place of the res signet, this pretty much nullifies the damage any assasins or ranger conditions.

If you think warriors are underpowerd, then you havnt really looked at the whole picture much, or looked in depth at the skills and situations you find yourself in...

As for the skill in Guildwars, well, you can do as much pre-thought into your builds as much as you like... the skill is being aware of your surroundings, thinking quick and reacting fast, putting all this together at the end of the match and asking yourself

"with my current build, was there anything better I could have done on the battle field?"

Usually there are hundreds of things which you could have done better, rather than blaming the skills available to you....

If you've not put much thought into the warriors skills as they are now then you cant be the type of person who thinks with very much depth on the battle field.. nor are you someone who reflects upon it much..

hang on... your a leaver! arnt you?

Hmm, actually meant 2/7 chance of meeting someone you can kill (but, not neccessarily kill) - given that you brought 2 anti-war-hate skills and guessed right.

Pacifism, cripple + poison combo, slowing hex (imagined burden goes up to 21+ secs with mantra of persistence), wards, a block/evade stance, empathy, SS, sympathetic visage, gale, traps, running, HH, Mark of Protection, just about anything that can delay a war's dmg enough so that it can be healed (not that it needed delaying)...

It's still pretty hard to kill a prot monk even with a consecutive swiftchop -> power attack -> executioner -> evicerate -> power attack -> swiftchop at max axe (sup axe rune in an axe helm), and no blocking.

I'm going to quickly pile on. I never going to win any awards for warrior skills, but my sword warrior with standard prophecy skills didn't have any problems in 12v12. I must admit that I had one of the best monks I know healing and an orders guy supporting so my job was really easy: kill really quickly and make people cry. Again, I'm not a great warrior and I was having zero problems with the proper support.

In random arenas I easily solo warriors with a lame IW build. This says much more about RA then it does about my IW build.

More like it says wars are underpowered, if you ask me.
Have you ever seen a war out-damage or out-heal max IW + flurry with healing sig?
Is a war going to block or evade that IW?
Maybe he'll disenchant it after taking dmg for 3 seconds, or disenchant the enchantment stacked on top of it.

My warrior always loses 1v1 to a Cripshot ranger! Warriors are underpowered!


OMG you hear that guys? There are *counters* to warriors in this game! Stop the presses, this is the biggest news event since that guy discovered autoattacking.


I think we can all agree with that.

Peace,
-CxE