Since we had a taste of some new skills of factions, and reading some post about skills being to over powerful, different skills names but effects are the same allowing DoT to be stacked. I got curious on what other people think.
What Factions Only skills do you think people will want nerfed? And why?
I think a lot will want Animate Flesh Golem to be nerfed for several reasons, one 16AP makes a level 26 golem. I would hate to see this get nerfd.
Just For Curiosity New Skills Nerfs?
Zehnchu
Eclair
Personally, I want to see some buffs to elementalist skills, most of the air and water variety.
Although, Aura of Displacement almost seems TOO good to be a non-linked skill. I mean, it pretty much makes Ride the Lightning a lot worse in comparison.
Although, Aura of Displacement almost seems TOO good to be a non-linked skill. I mean, it pretty much makes Ride the Lightning a lot worse in comparison.
Vermilion Okeanos
I agree ride the lightning need a little buff too.
but if ride the lightning do get buff... watch those PvE dragons slaughter your party in 1-2-3.
but if ride the lightning do get buff... watch those PvE dragons slaughter your party in 1-2-3.
Eclair
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Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos
I agree ride the lightning need a little buff too.
but if ride the lightning do get buff... watch those PvE dragons slaughter your party in 1-2-3. |
Hella Good
Given that people barely got a chance to try out some of the new elites (faction isn't so easy to come across) and that most of the non-elite skills seem balanced, it is kind of hard to predict, which might get a nerf.
For myself, I tried Boon Sig, Cultist's Fervor, Order of Apostasy, and Soul Bind. I found them balanced. However, I know that OoA has made IWAY viable again. I really think that problem isn't OoA, it's IWAY and it's tendancy to need just a bit to tip it over the top. So... I hope OoA doesn't suffer from this whole thing. I also noticed that Soul Bind needs to be buffed... something about it's trigger seems to not be working... I even tried to use it in combo with Faintheartedness but still didn't see the desired result.
Other than these few elites... the other non-elite skills I tried were wonderful and seemingly balanced.
On a side note, Temple Strike needs to get nerfed... I mean really... covering up Daze with 2 more conditions... what were you guys thinking? Nevermind it's an elite... no elite is the end-of-all for anyone... no other elite that is... Might as well rename Temple Strike into Kill Monk Strike.
For myself, I tried Boon Sig, Cultist's Fervor, Order of Apostasy, and Soul Bind. I found them balanced. However, I know that OoA has made IWAY viable again. I really think that problem isn't OoA, it's IWAY and it's tendancy to need just a bit to tip it over the top. So... I hope OoA doesn't suffer from this whole thing. I also noticed that Soul Bind needs to be buffed... something about it's trigger seems to not be working... I even tried to use it in combo with Faintheartedness but still didn't see the desired result.
Other than these few elites... the other non-elite skills I tried were wonderful and seemingly balanced.
On a side note, Temple Strike needs to get nerfed... I mean really... covering up Daze with 2 more conditions... what were you guys thinking? Nevermind it's an elite... no elite is the end-of-all for anyone... no other elite that is... Might as well rename Temple Strike into Kill Monk Strike.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
On a side note, Temple Strike needs to get nerfed... I mean really... covering up Daze with 2 more conditions... what were you guys thinking? Nevermind it's an elite... no elite is the end-of-all for anyone... no other elite that is... Might as well rename Temple Strike into Kill Monk Strike.
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Its balanced because of the limitations of the zin. Its more of a kamakzi profession. They can kill but usually die themselves.
I'm more conserned about Pysicic Distraction.
Zehnchu
Have you looked at the Mesmer skills? Talk about being over powering,
You have the normal Skill
Conjure Nightmare For 2...12 seconds, target foe experiences -5 Health degeneration.
Then it’s counter part.
Conjure Phantasm For 2...12 seconds, target foe suffers -8 Health degeneration.
Those two alone that’s -13 for 12 seconds I was hit with this in the 12v12 and I died quickly, but I was reading more.
Images of Remorse Hex Spell. For 5..9 seconds, target foe suffers -1..4 Health degeneration. If that foe was attacking, that foe takes 10..44 damage. (Attrib: Illusion Magic)
Recurring Insecurity (Elite) Elite Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe suffers from -1..3 Health degeneration. If that foe is Hexed again, Recurring Insecurity is renewed for 10 seconds. (Attrib: Illusion Magic)
Illusion of Pain For 10 seconds, target foe has -3...9 Health degeneration. When Illusion of Pain ends, that foe is healed for 20 Health for each point of Health degeneration caused from this Spell.
Combined that -29 Health degeneration.
You have the normal Skill
Conjure Nightmare For 2...12 seconds, target foe experiences -5 Health degeneration.
Then it’s counter part.
Conjure Phantasm For 2...12 seconds, target foe suffers -8 Health degeneration.
Those two alone that’s -13 for 12 seconds I was hit with this in the 12v12 and I died quickly, but I was reading more.
Images of Remorse Hex Spell. For 5..9 seconds, target foe suffers -1..4 Health degeneration. If that foe was attacking, that foe takes 10..44 damage. (Attrib: Illusion Magic)
Recurring Insecurity (Elite) Elite Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe suffers from -1..3 Health degeneration. If that foe is Hexed again, Recurring Insecurity is renewed for 10 seconds. (Attrib: Illusion Magic)
Illusion of Pain For 10 seconds, target foe has -3...9 Health degeneration. When Illusion of Pain ends, that foe is healed for 20 Health for each point of Health degeneration caused from this Spell.
Combined that -29 Health degeneration.
torquemada
If DoT really stacks thats some badarse degen...
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Zehnchu
Conjure Nightmare For 2...12 seconds, target foe experiences -5 Health degeneration.
Then it’s counter part. Conjure Phantasm For 2...12 seconds, target foe suffers -8 Health degeneration. |
No, degen does NOT stack beyond -10. Or +10, for that matter.
Alonsiddog
Unfortunately, the max health degen that is actually applied to a character is -10. Any extra goes into negating health regen, AFAIK.
JR
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Originally Posted by torquemada
If DoT really stacks thats some badarse degen...
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(Gah, beaten to it twice...)
Ensign
Just add 8 copies of Life Transfer and your opponent will degen out in two seconds. ZOMG UBER HAX.
In all seriousness I don't think people have nearly enough experience with these skills to pass judgement on what's good and what's bad, outside of a few really obvious cases (Seeping Wound is terrible, while Twisting Fangs is pretty hot). We don't have any real idea what the environment is going to look like and how things are going to fit in. Of course on top of that a lot of people really have no idea which way is up in the first place so that just compounds everything.
That said, I'd argue that Gaze from Beyond and Spirit Transfer are far too powerful right now and need to be toned down. The latter is particularly galling, as a 212 point heal for 5 energy and a quarter second cast. With no recharge.
Other stuff might be strong or weak but I'm uncomfortable saying what should be nerfed or buffed, and more particularly how, until I have quite a bit more experience playing with these skills.
Peace,
-CxE
In all seriousness I don't think people have nearly enough experience with these skills to pass judgement on what's good and what's bad, outside of a few really obvious cases (Seeping Wound is terrible, while Twisting Fangs is pretty hot). We don't have any real idea what the environment is going to look like and how things are going to fit in. Of course on top of that a lot of people really have no idea which way is up in the first place so that just compounds everything.
That said, I'd argue that Gaze from Beyond and Spirit Transfer are far too powerful right now and need to be toned down. The latter is particularly galling, as a 212 point heal for 5 energy and a quarter second cast. With no recharge.
Other stuff might be strong or weak but I'm uncomfortable saying what should be nerfed or buffed, and more particularly how, until I have quite a bit more experience playing with these skills.
Peace,
-CxE
VGJustice
I remember getting hit with just Illusion of Pain once, from a not-so-friendly mob. And... it healed me for almost the same amount of damage it did. At nearly 8 degen. Granted, I was not a happy camper when it started, but after I was just "wha?"
Conjure Phantasm, on the other hand, HURTS.
Conjure Phantasm, on the other hand, HURTS.
Omnidragon42
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
I remember getting hit with just Illusion of Pain once, from a not-so-friendly mob. And... it healed me for almost the same amount of damage it did. At nearly 8 degen. Granted, I was not a happy camper when it started, but after I was just "wha?"
Conjure Phantasm, on the other hand, HURTS. |
torquemada
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Originally Posted by JR-
Degen is capped at -10.
(Gah, beaten to it twice...) |
I wonder...any comment on that new spirit-killer sigil PvP-wise (cant remember the name)?
"Deals 55 damage to target foe. If that foe is a spirit xxx sigil recharges instantly."
Snowman
Will there actually be anothe complete skill balancing for when Factions is released?
I did read somewhere that they would be balancing the skills again to take into consideration the new faction skills.
but this was a while ago, and I wonder if that was the purpose of the skill balance of March 2'nd.
I did read somewhere that they would be balancing the skills again to take into consideration the new faction skills.
but this was a while ago, and I wonder if that was the purpose of the skill balance of March 2'nd.
Zehnchu
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Originally Posted by LightningHell, Alonsiddog, JR-
No, degen does NOT stack beyond -10.
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Originally Posted by torquemada
Pheew...got me worried there for a sec!
I wonder...any comment on that new spirit-killer sigil PvP-wise (cant remember the name)? "Deals 55 damage to target foe. If that foe is a spirit xxx sigil recharges instantly." |
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Originally Posted by Snowman
Will there actually be anothe complete skill balancing for when Factions is released?
I did read somewhere that they would be balancing the skills again to take into consideration the new faction skills. but this was a while ago, and I wonder if that was the purpose of the skill balance of March 2'nd. |
I know there used to be a Rit spirit that knocked down all foe’s in it’s area. Used it for the Free PvP weekend but couldn’t find it for the FPE I believe it was Earthbind.
TurinPT
Flesh of my Flesh was pretty powerful, combined with those ashes that give +300 health. thats non-stop 5 second cast rez with half health.
qwe4rty
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
I know that OoA has made IWAY viable again. I really think that problem isn't OoA, it's IWAY and it's tendancy to need just a bit to tip it over the top.
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
On a side note, Temple Strike needs to get nerfed... I mean really... covering up Daze with 2 more conditions... what were you guys thinking? Nevermind it's an elite... no elite is the end-of-all for anyone... no other elite that is... Might as well rename Temple Strike into Kill Monk Strike.
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SirJackassIII
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Originally Posted by Zehnchu
Ranger or Rit?
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And degen can stack higher than 10, if someone uses Healing breeze, they can still have -10 degen if the degen was -20+. The "damage" doesn't go higher than -10 degen though. (So max is -20HP/second).
EDIT: there's another "fun" skill for IWAY. "Retreat": If there are any dead allies in the area, your party moves 33% faster for 5...10 seconds.
Luckily, it's linked to Tactics, so IWAY users won't be smart enough to touch it
Although it could get nasty @ 8 TActics with "Fear Me" as well...
Arcanis the Omnipotent
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Originally Posted by Zehnchu
Have you looked at the Mesmer skills? Talk about being over powering,
You have the normal Skill Conjure Nightmare For 2...12 seconds, target foe experiences -5 Health degeneration. Then it’s counter part. Conjure Phantasm For 2...12 seconds, target foe suffers -8 Health degeneration. Those two alone that’s -13 for 12 seconds I was hit with this in the 12v12 and I died quickly, but I was reading more. Images of Remorse Hex Spell. For 5..9 seconds, target foe suffers -1..4 Health degeneration. If that foe was attacking, that foe takes 10..44 damage. (Attrib: Illusion Magic) Recurring Insecurity (Elite) Elite Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe suffers from -1..3 Health degeneration. If that foe is Hexed again, Recurring Insecurity is renewed for 10 seconds. (Attrib: Illusion Magic) Illusion of Pain For 10 seconds, target foe has -3...9 Health degeneration. When Illusion of Pain ends, that foe is healed for 20 Health for each point of Health degeneration caused from this Spell. Combined that -29 Health degeneration. |
Lets go through your list:
Conjure Nightmare: -8 Degen. Costs 25 energy, lasts 10 seconds. Yeah, this one needs a buff if anything. I dont see how adding 3 degen to Conjure Phantasm costs an extra 15 energy. I mean, I could add Phantom Pain for that and get the added bonus of a Deep Wound.
Images of Remorse: Yeah, the person actually has to be attacking for this one to hit. Which means you need to fire it off when they're already attacking you. Its not like Empathy, Clumsiness or Ineptitude which fire off upon the first attack.
Recurring Insecurity: An Elite Degen that's actually good? Not only that, its only -3. That's like causing bleeding over and over. The down side to this spell is you need to keep renewing a hex every 10 seconds. And Wastrels is about the only Mesmer hex that can be spammed like that and not have you worrying about your energy. And if your spending all your time spamming wastrels worrying about -3 degen, you arent getting alot done. This hex is far from infinite, and is actually better used when its not tried to be made infinite.
Illusion of Pain: Your complaining about a spell that heals you if you survive it?
Zehnchu
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Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
You have no idea how Degen works do you?
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If you bothered read further you would have seen me say “thanks for the information” meaning I understand how it works.
Mandy Memory
I thought Splinter Defence was nasty...but it was fairly balanced...
Its just that henchmen enjoy spiking my targets...so I get hit for 19, ~10 times per time I attack (not even hit most of the time)
Its just that henchmen enjoy spiking my targets...so I get hit for 19, ~10 times per time I attack (not even hit most of the time)
Align
I love Expel Hexes!
Hella Good
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Originally Posted by torquemada
Pheew...got me worried there for a sec!
I wonder...any comment on that new spirit-killer sigil PvP-wise (cant remember the name)? "Deals 55 damage to target foe. If that foe is a spirit xxx sigil recharges instantly." |
Conjure NM = junk... 8 degen for 25nrg is nothx, nevermind the 1 cast and the 5 recharge. PLUS you got the amazing new hex IoR which is hands down the best non-elite illusion hex.
Recurring Insec. and Arcane Languor are the two most ridiculous elites mesmers got. Welcome to the Fevered Dreams, never-to-be-used club.
Xpl0iter
Degen has always been a bad ass way to dish damage out, i love mesmers, but sometimes, too much degen is hard to deal even if its capped at -10 max. Issue is simple, if a person has 4 degen hexhes on them, and they try to kill degen hexes off them, will they be able to coop with the remaining hexes continue to degen their health?
just wondering.
just wondering.
Arcanis the Omnipotent
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Originally Posted by Zehnchu
At first I didn’t, didn’t play mesmer long enough. LightingHell and a few others where kind enough to simply answer, which I understood at once.
If you bothered read further you would have seen me say “thanks for the information” meaning I understand how it works. |
SisterMercy
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Originally Posted by Zehnchu
Have you looked at the Mesmer skills? Talk about being over powering, ... Conjure Nightmare ... Conjure Phantasm ...
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Originally Posted by Zehnchu
Images of Remorse ...
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
Conjure Phantasm, on the other hand, HURTS.
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torquemada
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
Unnatural Sig is no doubt one of the best mesmer skills I have had on my skill bar in a looong looong time. At 16 domi it deals 79 damage. It kills spirits, yes... but that's a very limiting way to look at it. It's a nice finishing move is how I look at it. Mesmers have always needed that extra spike, that extra zing to get the job done. Well, this is it. It allows mesmers to deal that last hit after unloading their hexmes powers (or whatever the case might be). Which brings me to the other skill given for that same last hit purpose- Illusion of Pain. Both the sig and this hex are finishing moves. When you play mesmer, you learn all about layering effects and hexes and whatnot.
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I mostly used it in factions preview since there were a lot of ritualists in the mobs. I am ele primary with domination at cca 10 but I was able to kill very quickly nevertheless and use sigil as a finishing move. God knows they gave us crappy skills to begin with...
exiled mat
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Originally Posted by qwe4rty
I think it is perfectly fine as is, to be honest. Daze needed to see the light, and I think that Skull Crack should actually become unconditional daze as well.
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Weezer_Blue
I don't see many, if any, skills that really need a nerf. I do, however, see many skills that need a buff.
Hella Good
I would guess that Order of Apostasy will get a nerf. Either increased health sac, or longer cast, or a combination of the two. It seems like a balanced skill but I think it will get nerfed nevertheless. IWAY was winning HoH easily with OoA during the FPE. I guess 8% health loss per chant is ignorable... and then with so many things dying, you barely ever have a problem with the nrg cost. I mean think about it: with absolutely no heals you have the capacity to remove 13 (!!!) chants before dying... now toss in Heal Area... I bet they will make it 15%-ish min, and/or maybe 3 cast. Probably like OoV it won't work with other necro chants too.
Former Ruling
OoA will probably get the IWAY nerf, yes. My guess is more Health Sac.
Shame too. It was a good idea.
Shame too. It was a good idea.
Nazzarus Stormfall
Lightning Hammer.. same damage as Lightning Orb, doesn't miss, and costs an extra 10 energy..
maybe an extra 5 energy, or 5 seconds extra recharge, or a little more damage, or a secondary ability..
SOMETHING besides a higher cost non-missing lightning orb plz
maybe an extra 5 energy, or 5 seconds extra recharge, or a little more damage, or a secondary ability..
SOMETHING besides a higher cost non-missing lightning orb plz
Ken Dei
About Temple Strike if it hasn't been mentioned before...
It MUST follow a dual attack, unless that changed that.
So you can't do Lead +Temple Strike.
You have to do:
Lead + Offhand + Dual + Temple Strike
Which takes most your energy, and a lot of chances to screw up the combo.
It MUST follow a dual attack, unless that changed that.
So you can't do Lead +Temple Strike.
You have to do:
Lead + Offhand + Dual + Temple Strike
Which takes most your energy, and a lot of chances to screw up the combo.
Theos
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
Unnatural Sig is no doubt one of the best mesmer skills I have had on my skill bar in a looong looong time. At 16 domi it deals 79 damage. It kills spirits, yes... but that's a very limiting way to look at it. It's a nice finishing move is how I look at it. Mesmers have always needed that extra spike, that extra zing to get the job done. Well, this is it. It allows mesmers to deal that last hit after unloading their hexmes powers (or whatever the case might be). Which brings me to the other skill given for that same last hit purpose- Illusion of Pain. Both the sig and this hex are finishing moves. When you play mesmer, you learn all about layering effects and hexes and whatnot.
Conjure NM = junk... 8 degen for 25nrg is nothx, nevermind the 1 cast and the 5 recharge. PLUS you got the amazing new hex IoR which is hands down the best non-elite illusion hex. Recurring Insec. and Arcane Languor are the two most ridiculous elites mesmers got. Welcome to the Fevered Dreams, never-to-be-used club. |
I am wondering how Unnatural Signet will find its way into the metagame, as it is a great finisher, but its outdone by the surges which currently reside in the only place I could ever see it go. Sure its free and kills spirits, but then Surge destroys 10 energy and deals more damage.
It will be interesting to see this work its way in, which I don't dount will happen.
With the duplication to Ethrea Burden illusion mesmers won't even need Inspiration for E-management. Just chuck it around and slow two targets, spam, get energy, spam. Ought to be fun.
zoozoc
well it really depends on how the metagame is gonna go, but spirit walk is definently an odd skill, and with a bunch of spirits, it has a lot of potential to be a real pain in the arse.
Weezer_Blue
There are, as always, a lot of skills everyone's complaining about because they couldn't find a counter if it came up flashing on their screens. Temple Strike is a good elite, but it's not overpowered. If you can't counter Temple Strike, you can't counter an Assassin, and you're simply going to get owned by them in general. And yet, it's so easy. Blindness, interuption of all sorts, enchantments, stances, and shouts, wards... All are counters to an easily dodged skill. Basically, if you get hit with it every once in a while: Fine. If you get hit with it when you know it's coming, you're terrible.
xenoranger
I'll have to see them in action, but a lot of the teleportation skills by Assassins will probably require a bit of tweaking, otherwise you can simply teleport all over and use that as an easy escape.
Ken Dei
Assassin teleport skills actually need a distance buff, minus AoD (Aura of Displacement).
Most of the teleportations are random too, so you could actually teleport somewhere even worse then you were at. Not very good for escaping at all.
Most of the teleportations are random too, so you could actually teleport somewhere even worse then you were at. Not very good for escaping at all.