I have noticed on overwhelming annimosity to the players that seem to have no other purpose or goal in this game other than to joing a group to quit on them.
Start penalizing them for it.
Examples:
4v4 TA, RA, and such if you leave you lose 200 faction
8v8 HA, and others like it to come you lose 300 faction and teammates that remain split the lost faction automatically so theyre not at a complete loss.
12v12 and all alliance battles your guild loses 10 alliance standing(which costs 5000 faction to get) Players that do this get their name posted in Guild/alliance status as a quitters and was the reason for the Standing point loss! guild's with a negative standing will get warned once then will be terminated. to prevent smurf guilds for this purpose
or for each person that leaves in a battle their team get's 20 point's toward the win. No rage quitting FTW because whoever leaves get's no faction. so if plyers quit it's still balanced.
Yet I truly believe the players quitting should be penalized because it is affecting so many other players' enjoyment of the game.
Quitting can be determined by Logging out, mapping out, or any other creative way they will find around it other than an Err-7, code 007 or someting like that.
Yes it's supposed to be a war. yet we can do without the weak resorting to childish tactics to gain control.
Please add or sign if you you agree or dissagree. Maybe we'll get ANET's attention on this matter
Penalizing the (spies) leaver in all PvP areas
Shut Your Mouth
Studio Ghibli
What if a person makes a character specifically designed for quitting--and it has no faction to start off with?
Or, for that matter, anything worthwhile to lose?
Do we start penalizing the account?
And what if--WHAT IF!--someone actually uses an account for this?
Or, for that matter, anything worthwhile to lose?
Do we start penalizing the account?
And what if--WHAT IF!--someone actually uses an account for this?
Mercury Angel
As with the d/c reconnects and previous threads about this, the recurring problem is always that there is NO WAY to tell between a legit d/c and someone pulling the plug on their internet momentarily. They'd simply change tactics no matter what you did;
One common tactic you might have seen in the arenas in the past is the same person entering the arena and going AFK again and again, especially if you were 'lucky' enough to get that same player multiple times in a row. If people couldn't map or d/c, they'd go AFK; The same end result (you don't get a character actually out there to help you), except if you manage to succeed despite their actions (or lack thereof), they reap the rewards too.
And then we'll have the issue of 'bad builds'. What if a person is casting spells like 'Iron Mist' on the opposition to make them invincible to your attacks, and running up to use 'Heal Area' to restore them? There's EoE bombing your own side, building up a minion army and turning them on your allies, and well, not really a whole lot else I suppose.
To people determined to grief, there's not a whole lot you can do.
As a side note, capping d/c's from the PvP areas over a certain period (either your connection is too unstable to really play, or you're doing it to grief; Whichever is the case, you probably shouldn't be in them at the moment.), removing the ability to map out, giving faction for people who disconnect to the other side (for those griefers that quit fights just before you can kill them to prevent you from gaining faction), capping the match length in the arenas to prevent running victories, tying accounts to the kurzick/luxxon side and making the switch doable, but requiring a bit of effort (already planned iirc), and probably a handful of other things.
It'd also be nice if they took the approach other commercial MMORPG's do and counted griefing as a bannable (or at least a temporary suspension) offence.
One common tactic you might have seen in the arenas in the past is the same person entering the arena and going AFK again and again, especially if you were 'lucky' enough to get that same player multiple times in a row. If people couldn't map or d/c, they'd go AFK; The same end result (you don't get a character actually out there to help you), except if you manage to succeed despite their actions (or lack thereof), they reap the rewards too.
And then we'll have the issue of 'bad builds'. What if a person is casting spells like 'Iron Mist' on the opposition to make them invincible to your attacks, and running up to use 'Heal Area' to restore them? There's EoE bombing your own side, building up a minion army and turning them on your allies, and well, not really a whole lot else I suppose.
To people determined to grief, there's not a whole lot you can do.
As a side note, capping d/c's from the PvP areas over a certain period (either your connection is too unstable to really play, or you're doing it to grief; Whichever is the case, you probably shouldn't be in them at the moment.), removing the ability to map out, giving faction for people who disconnect to the other side (for those griefers that quit fights just before you can kill them to prevent you from gaining faction), capping the match length in the arenas to prevent running victories, tying accounts to the kurzick/luxxon side and making the switch doable, but requiring a bit of effort (already planned iirc), and probably a handful of other things.
It'd also be nice if they took the approach other commercial MMORPG's do and counted griefing as a bannable (or at least a temporary suspension) offence.
Vermilion Okeanos
Take down their name and report for abuse.
=HT=Ingram
/not signed...
There are other way sto avoid the "SPY / Espionage" problem in alliance battles... not the least of which is if your alliance is Kurzik, then you only can join Kurzik Side for Alliance battles. period. If you try to join a luxon alliance side it will kick you out of the area saying your not allied with the luxons... Much like the merchants not talking to you if your faction is not in their favor. if your alliance standing is not in favor the alliance area will not let you have access. you must play on the side that your alliance is affilated. This is not to say you can not join the other faction later if your alliance chooses too. I'm just saying... this is a much simpiler solution to the problem then tinkering with punitive actions that can easily be avoided by unplugging your LAN cable and simulating an err=7 disconnect...
There are other way sto avoid the "SPY / Espionage" problem in alliance battles... not the least of which is if your alliance is Kurzik, then you only can join Kurzik Side for Alliance battles. period. If you try to join a luxon alliance side it will kick you out of the area saying your not allied with the luxons... Much like the merchants not talking to you if your faction is not in their favor. if your alliance standing is not in favor the alliance area will not let you have access. you must play on the side that your alliance is affilated. This is not to say you can not join the other faction later if your alliance chooses too. I'm just saying... this is a much simpiler solution to the problem then tinkering with punitive actions that can easily be avoided by unplugging your LAN cable and simulating an err=7 disconnect...
Rey Lentless
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As a side note, capping d/c's from the PvP areas over a certain period (either your connection is too unstable to really play, or you're doing it to grief; Whichever is the case, you probably shouldn't be in them at the moment.), removing the ability to map out, giving faction for people who disconnect to the other side (for those griefers that quit fights just before you can kill them to prevent you from gaining faction), capping the match length in the arenas to prevent running victories, tying accounts to the kurzick/luxxon side and making the switch doable, but requiring a bit of effort (already planned iirc), and probably a handful of other things. It'd also be nice if they took the approach other commercial MMORPG's do and counted griefing as a bannable (or at least a temporary suspension) offence. |
Rebirther
good points i guess, one factor that i would like to see is the enforcement of team structures in team related arenas, such as you cannot start heros ascent in a team of henchies or on your own. something like this should be transfered over to all team creation battles such as TA/ Alliance battles etc.
Random entering is avaliable at the random arenas...
There will be people who will "attempt" to sabotage one faction in favour for another but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will lose + there are many other reasons for leaving and the common one is disconnection or timeout.
Besides if one side tries to sabotage another, you will no doubt get that on both factions and the amount of loses that results from this may cancel it out?
i would like something to be done about such players and would like to see how the developers handle the situation, but as with all these types of games you get your flaws and there will always be one exploiting it and causing grief.
Random entering is avaliable at the random arenas...
There will be people who will "attempt" to sabotage one faction in favour for another but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will lose + there are many other reasons for leaving and the common one is disconnection or timeout.
Besides if one side tries to sabotage another, you will no doubt get that on both factions and the amount of loses that results from this may cancel it out?
i would like something to be done about such players and would like to see how the developers handle the situation, but as with all these types of games you get your flaws and there will always be one exploiting it and causing grief.
frickett
This is a game, If people leave the group, I am in, we always fight on. And if we don't win, we try again. I don't see what the big deal is.
MSecorsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rebirther
good points i guess, one factor that i would like to see is the enforcement of team structures in team related arenas, such as you cannot start heros ascent in a team of henchies or on your own. something like this should be transfered over to all team creation battles such as TA/ Alliance battles etc.
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Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.
nomed
The big deal is that in 99% of the cases your time is wasted. People from Luxon guilds should just not be able to enter the Kurzick mission towns and other way round.
I don't think people will make whole spy guilds, nobody can be that pathetic.
I don't think people will make whole spy guilds, nobody can be that pathetic.
CKaz
Well I'd love that those that 'sac themselves' get warnings/suspensions/account loss 
Big Tony
Seems like this is more oriented towards PvP but the quitters and deserters in PvE piss me off to no end.
Last night, my third night trying to finish the ICoS Mission, i had 10 (literally) different people leave half way thru. One, who shall remain nameless, attacked a bunch of mursaat and then logged out saying "have fun noobs".
A penalty of some sort should be applied.
Or, maybe better, that person should be replaced by a henchie once they leave? Theres been a few occasions where i've had trouble doing a mission early on with real people, only to complete it in half the time with henchmen. I'm not much of a PvP player but would this end up being counter-productive in that realm?
Last night, my third night trying to finish the ICoS Mission, i had 10 (literally) different people leave half way thru. One, who shall remain nameless, attacked a bunch of mursaat and then logged out saying "have fun noobs".
A penalty of some sort should be applied.
Or, maybe better, that person should be replaced by a henchie once they leave? Theres been a few occasions where i've had trouble doing a mission early on with real people, only to complete it in half the time with henchmen. I'm not much of a PvP player but would this end up being counter-productive in that realm?
MSecorsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nomed
The big deal is that in 99% of the cases your time is wasted. People from Luxon guilds should just not be able to enter the Kurzick mission towns and other way round.
I don't think people will make whole spy guilds, nobody can be that pathetic. |
Shut Your Mouth
Well there will always be ways around rules and rule enforcement.
In normal PvP where only personal gain is at stake I guess I can do without penalty.
Yet when Alliance standing, map/mission control is at hand I think that ANET will have to do something about the obvious Allegiance/Faction manipulation done by quitting battles. I'm sry but so many ppl are doing it now because of no penalty/hassle.
Player account for sabotage(not interested in Alliance standing):
If each player had to buy a seperate account of GW in order to sabotage a fight then a whole lot less of it will be happening.
It is truly sad that some players resort to these tactics purely because they are not skilled enough to win a fight.
The problem with quitters and AFK hasalways been there in GW. But not until Faction's has it become a point of Game Balance/Control. In only one weekend of Faction's 12v12 it has become such a major issue that all dislike. Well of course except those that are doing it.
In normal PvP where only personal gain is at stake I guess I can do without penalty.
Yet when Alliance standing, map/mission control is at hand I think that ANET will have to do something about the obvious Allegiance/Faction manipulation done by quitting battles. I'm sry but so many ppl are doing it now because of no penalty/hassle.
Player account for sabotage(not interested in Alliance standing):
If each player had to buy a seperate account of GW in order to sabotage a fight then a whole lot less of it will be happening.
It is truly sad that some players resort to these tactics purely because they are not skilled enough to win a fight.
The problem with quitters and AFK hasalways been there in GW. But not until Faction's has it become a point of Game Balance/Control. In only one weekend of Faction's 12v12 it has become such a major issue that all dislike. Well of course except those that are doing it.
Snowman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shut Your Mouth
Quitting can be determined by Logging out, mapping out, or any other creative way they will find around it other than an Err-7, code 007 or someting like that.
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A) Manually disconnect from the internet would avoid all those penalties.
B) they dont WANT those faction points anyway!..
..if you goto Kurzicks side with the intention of quitting, who cares that your being penalised for Kurzick faction?..they dont! its not a punishment.
Im all up for penalizing such idiots, but I just dont see any kind of punishment being enough for it to work.
also, chances are that there would be people ON BOTH SIDES, doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING..
I just dont see ANET doing anything about this
BellyFlop
I remember in the days of RA2 that if you left/quit the 5 times you would have to sit for an amount of time until you could join again. as well there was a option were you could see how many times this person quit the game and then was up to you to take them or no.
Something like this could be used, but that requires some programming or what ever the name is.
Gaile once said that its hard to have a option to see were people are in a area of the game cos it would mean loads of refreshing, so I cant see them having any of this systems to check if people did honestly drop out or they just quit (leavers).
But I agree something constructive must be done not to penalize the people that unfortunate do drop out and trace the silly quitters.
Something like this could be used, but that requires some programming or what ever the name is.
Gaile once said that its hard to have a option to see were people are in a area of the game cos it would mean loads of refreshing, so I cant see them having any of this systems to check if people did honestly drop out or they just quit (leavers).
But I agree something constructive must be done not to penalize the people that unfortunate do drop out and trace the silly quitters.
Shut Your Mouth
Well it seems that there is no real answer to this problem. The idea of not letting Kurzic/Luxon allied players join the other side to battle may be the only way to lower the sheer number of ppl doing it.
All I'm saying is that there needs to be something done about it. Especially since it seems to be a matter of which side is quitting more, not winning more.
In the long run it will become a matter of groups of 12 quitting and leaving the other side to wait for 500 points to accumulate slowly to win. There will be very few actual 12v12 fights.
I personally love the PvP aspect of this game but all PvP areas except GvG have been overrun with players that do not have the skill to win a fight so they just make the gameplay experience miserable for the majority of others.
I no longer participate in HA due to the Rank and IWAY problems associated with it. RA are just a pure waste of time. TA is still ok at time as long as you build a group. GvG well that explains itself, you know all the players your fighting with and have them all on Vent/TS.
I guess it's just one more reason I'm still undecided on purchasing Faction's.
IMO the players that are doing this need to be penalized in some way. Since Alliance Battles are for control of the map and missions I would think they(ANET) would be jumping all over that exploit.
All I'm saying is that there needs to be something done about it. Especially since it seems to be a matter of which side is quitting more, not winning more.
In the long run it will become a matter of groups of 12 quitting and leaving the other side to wait for 500 points to accumulate slowly to win. There will be very few actual 12v12 fights.
I personally love the PvP aspect of this game but all PvP areas except GvG have been overrun with players that do not have the skill to win a fight so they just make the gameplay experience miserable for the majority of others.
I no longer participate in HA due to the Rank and IWAY problems associated with it. RA are just a pure waste of time. TA is still ok at time as long as you build a group. GvG well that explains itself, you know all the players your fighting with and have them all on Vent/TS.
I guess it's just one more reason I'm still undecided on purchasing Faction's.
IMO the players that are doing this need to be penalized in some way. Since Alliance Battles are for control of the map and missions I would think they(ANET) would be jumping all over that exploit.
Inureface
There was a thread before that had some ideas which were very good, I think one of them was:
If you leave (err=7/ragequit/whatever) in the middle of a battle, you can't go to any PvP mission for 5 minutes OR if you logged back in within 5 minutes of your dc/ragequit, you'd be penalized faction. I see all these posts worrying about people lagging out, but be honest, how often does someone lag out compared to ragequit?? In random arenas, its almost ALWAYS they never load or ragequit, probably the DC-ragequit ratio is 1:48. In 12v12, you'd have more issues with people not loading than lagging out, if you're on 56k, I'd hate to say it but deal with it, lower all your graphics settings etc, don't make anet let quitters and griefers get by just because of you (take one for the community). People who legitimately lag out usually set off a ragequit bomb just as a ragequitter would, so whether its lag or anger, you're still hurting the people you left behind and to discourage people from just leaving because they don't feel like doing anything to help their team win, they'd be penalized. Sure it might be just a game, but in the Japanese Army in WW2, if you wanted to "ragequit", you were shot before you could even say I quit.
If you leave (err=7/ragequit/whatever) in the middle of a battle, you can't go to any PvP mission for 5 minutes OR if you logged back in within 5 minutes of your dc/ragequit, you'd be penalized faction. I see all these posts worrying about people lagging out, but be honest, how often does someone lag out compared to ragequit?? In random arenas, its almost ALWAYS they never load or ragequit, probably the DC-ragequit ratio is 1:48. In 12v12, you'd have more issues with people not loading than lagging out, if you're on 56k, I'd hate to say it but deal with it, lower all your graphics settings etc, don't make anet let quitters and griefers get by just because of you (take one for the community). People who legitimately lag out usually set off a ragequit bomb just as a ragequitter would, so whether its lag or anger, you're still hurting the people you left behind and to discourage people from just leaving because they don't feel like doing anything to help their team win, they'd be penalized. Sure it might be just a game, but in the Japanese Army in WW2, if you wanted to "ragequit", you were shot before you could even say I quit.
Lynn Salo
Ok seriously...if you win or lose you get faction. The closest win I've ever had and the most fun was a 502-496 win, and we were down 3 people. Did we give up? No! Did we bitch? No! We fought and won, and had a hell of a time. Yet again it goes back to this elite BS attitude. Its a game. And when it stops being fun or you take it this damn seriously..its not a game anymore, its a problem.
SilentAssassin
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Originally Posted by frickett
This is a game, If people leave the group, I am in, we always fight on. And if we don't win, we try again. I don't see what the big deal is.
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If all these luxons start going to kurzick just to quit and let the kurzicks lose... then the borders will switch...
I didn't really bother the leavers in 4v4 its easy to start a new one, but leavers in 12v12 is really drastic, if your team was losing with 80-50 some ppl already left, others follow and so on...
THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST THIS !!
if they don't, we will see some very ugly things 28+ april
SilentAssassin
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Originally Posted by Lynn Salo
Ok seriously...if you win or lose you get faction. The closest win I've ever had and the most fun was a 502-496 win, and we were down 3 people. Did we give up? No! Did we bitch? No! We fought and won, and had a hell of a time. Yet again it goes back to this elite BS attitude. Its a game. And when it stops being fun or you take it this damn seriously..its not a game anymore, its a problem.
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BUT for som1 who loves this faction idea and likes to PvP alot, these leavers are a damn pain in the ass...
and sry to say this, but I really think this "this is a game ... blablabla..." its just plain ignorance
eternal pho
ok first of all its just a game and u cannot just report them just b/c they leave.
there could be a possibility that players get disconnected from their internet and its not their fault, so u could be wrong if ur reporting som1.
there could be a possibility that players get disconnected from their internet and its not their fault, so u could be wrong if ur reporting som1.
Lynn Salo
Ok now I dont know about you but if you get faction taken away or get banned for 5 minutes because your ISP drops you. Thats Stupidity at its finest. Just rename this game Idiot Wars cause all I've seen on this site and in game are a bunch of ideas from a bunch of idiots. Its a game...G-A-M-E. I think the creators...the people who made the game thought about this before they created the "boarders", there is bound to be something they will do to keep it from swaying drastically. And if not...guess what...you'll have to live with it, because they will have gotten your money and no amount of bitching or crying will change that. The same thing happened in Chapter 1, people didnt like stuff anet did(i.e. nerfing farming areas, not a damn thing done about bots, etc.), bitchied and moaned but still played. Same thing will happen here, accept it and play already.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mercury Angel
To people determined to grief, there's not a whole lot you can do.
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Most leavers in RA leave because they simply don't like the team build they get, and feel that they can farm faction faster by dropping out and getting a new team. So the solution is to put a timer on them - after dropping out, for whatever reason, you shouldn't be able to enter a new match for, say, 10 minutes.
In faction battles people mainly drop out because they think their team will lose, and so they wont get faction. As faction battles are longer, the timer should be 30 minutes to an hour.
This doesn't fix deliberate griefing or people going AFK, but it does fix the problem with faction farmers dropping out to get on a new team, without penalizing people with bad connections too severely.
Lynn Salo: How dumb are you? Since when is it not allowed to discuss the rules of a game - just because it's a game? And if you knew anything about ANet and how they've treated us gamers in the past, you'd know that they DO listen to reasonable suggestions.
SilentAssassin
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Lynn Salo: How dumb are you? Since when is it not allowed to discuss the rules of a game - just because it's a game? And if you knew anything about ANet and how they've treated us gamers in the past, you'd know that they DO listen to reasonable suggestions.
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Lynn Salo
Well if your logic is so great, why not use that same logic somehow to stop the bots? Or stop farming. You know you got a great idea there. Lets say, if you only farm parts of an area for good drops, you cant go back into said area for an hour after you leave it. OMG! why didnt I think of that...oh yeah...because its f-ing stupid.
and btw It shouldn't be held against people with slow computers or bad connections period.
and btw It shouldn't be held against people with slow computers or bad connections period.
Hanok Odbrook
Let's get one thing understood here - this is a game. We all here like to play games. Why do we like to play games? Because playing games gives us some form of enjoyment. If a game is not fun, what do we do? We stop playing.
Leavers in the arenas were a major problem, no matter the cause. Using updates and nerfs in C1 is not a good analogy when talking about Factions. Even with certain things in C1, you could still enjoy the bulk of the game. With Factions, the arenas ARE the game - 80% of the content of this game will be the PvP arenas and mini-games, therefore the leavers are going to be much more of a problem than in C1. Something needs to be done to solve this problem, otherwise Factions will fall flat on its face.
Right now, I see the problem degenerating into both sides having spies constantly sabo the matches. Limiting access to the other side's arenas will help, but then that penalizes the PvEer who would prefer to explore both territories. Having Faction account based limits the PvEers in what they can do at any particular point in the game - not fun. Unfortunately, I would rather deal with this as a PvEer than deal with what the arenas offered in the preview. There are other issues relating to the Faction and what it will allow PvEers to access that really don't apply to this topic, but need fixing nonetheless. Since Anet has decided to make Factions very PvP centric, then the problem of spies, traitors, leavers, etc. need to be handled prior to the release of the game.
And yes, I believe there should be some kind of penalty for leavers. I have used a dial-up for most of my play time in C1 before being able to get broadband, and rarely had a connection issue, so that's no excuse. And as someone else said, if you are having connection issues, then you absolutely should not be teaming up for PvP or PvE action - either way, your constantly dropped connection hurts the other players on the team - go solo until your problem clears up.
Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace
Leavers in the arenas were a major problem, no matter the cause. Using updates and nerfs in C1 is not a good analogy when talking about Factions. Even with certain things in C1, you could still enjoy the bulk of the game. With Factions, the arenas ARE the game - 80% of the content of this game will be the PvP arenas and mini-games, therefore the leavers are going to be much more of a problem than in C1. Something needs to be done to solve this problem, otherwise Factions will fall flat on its face.
Right now, I see the problem degenerating into both sides having spies constantly sabo the matches. Limiting access to the other side's arenas will help, but then that penalizes the PvEer who would prefer to explore both territories. Having Faction account based limits the PvEers in what they can do at any particular point in the game - not fun. Unfortunately, I would rather deal with this as a PvEer than deal with what the arenas offered in the preview. There are other issues relating to the Faction and what it will allow PvEers to access that really don't apply to this topic, but need fixing nonetheless. Since Anet has decided to make Factions very PvP centric, then the problem of spies, traitors, leavers, etc. need to be handled prior to the release of the game.
And yes, I believe there should be some kind of penalty for leavers. I have used a dial-up for most of my play time in C1 before being able to get broadband, and rarely had a connection issue, so that's no excuse. And as someone else said, if you are having connection issues, then you absolutely should not be teaming up for PvP or PvE action - either way, your constantly dropped connection hurts the other players on the team - go solo until your problem clears up.
Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace
Kool Pajamas
Its simple....time penalty....ban them from arenas for 10 or 15 minutes.
So what if they go afk or make bad build. It affects that one game ONLY. It prevents them from going into multiple battles in a short time span ruining it for hundreds of people.
If you have legit reason for leaving, then the very short time penalty will not affect you in any major way. Just wait out the minor penalty time then join back up.
It's so simple...
So what if they go afk or make bad build. It affects that one game ONLY. It prevents them from going into multiple battles in a short time span ruining it for hundreds of people.
If you have legit reason for leaving, then the very short time penalty will not affect you in any major way. Just wait out the minor penalty time then join back up.
It's so simple...
Dj Tano
Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.
Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission?
I dont think so. I think that you should just leave me as i am, but so that the other people dont get penalized, replace the leaver with a copy of him as a henchmen. Of course it will not be as good as the real player, but its still better then doing a mission without a person, or even worse if the leaver is something important as a healer.
For the factions battle the way to solve the problem is much easyer. You enter a faction battle, and have fun. You leave and you cant join that exact battle again, but only others. This way no people can spy. (btw i think leavers should be replaced by henchmen clones in pvp too)
Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission?
I dont think so. I think that you should just leave me as i am, but so that the other people dont get penalized, replace the leaver with a copy of him as a henchmen. Of course it will not be as good as the real player, but its still better then doing a mission without a person, or even worse if the leaver is something important as a healer.
For the factions battle the way to solve the problem is much easyer. You enter a faction battle, and have fun. You leave and you cant join that exact battle again, but only others. This way no people can spy. (btw i think leavers should be replaced by henchmen clones in pvp too)
Wyldchild777
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Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram
/not signed...
There are other ways to avoid the "SPY / Espionage" problem in alliance battles... not the least of which is if your alliance is Kurzik, then you only can join Kurzik Side for Alliance battles. <snip> |
To me, this sounds like the best idea out there so far. However, to complete the line of thought - if your alliance has no standing with either Faction (guild of one?), then it will be based on your character's total faction gained. This won't eliminate all the grief players running the espionage thing, but it will eliminate a majority of them. It will be extremely difficult to maintain that character at 10k faction (since you probably ARE doing battles for the side you are sabotaging FOR) for both sides AND have your guild (of one?) have no faction with either side. To put it in more of a formula:
Faction Check -
if alliance faction = kurzick/luxon, then character faction = kurzick/luxon.
if alliance faction not = kurzick/luxon (points = 0), then greater character faction point total = character faction
if character faction point total is equal, then character = unaligned.
This would more accurately dictate the character's alliance, which then can be checked to allow or deny participation in the PvP portions of Factions that are allianced based.
Just my humble 2cents worth.
Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777
Sunai
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Originally Posted by Lynn Salo
Well if your logic is so great, why not use that same logic somehow to stop the bots? Or stop farming. You know you got a great idea there. Lets say, if you only farm parts of an area for good drops, you cant go back into said area for an hour after you leave it.
and btw It shouldn't be held against people with slow computers or bad connections period. |
If you're playing competitively with a group (that depends on you, and that you know become irate when members drop) with a "bad connection", then you know you're taking a risk. You'll have to deal with the consequences if you decide to place the success of the group on your droppy connection.
Personally, though, I still think the remaining players should get rewarded instead. Increased faction gains or something. Something like a 5 minute timeout doesn't seem too bad, though.
SilentAssassin
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Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook
Let's get one thing understood here - this is a game. We all here like to play games. Why do we like to play games? Because playing games gives us some form of enjoyment. If a game is not fun, what do we do? We stop playing.
Leavers in the arenas were a major problem, no matter the cause. Using updates and nerfs in C1 is not a good analogy when talking about Factions. Even with certain things in C1, you could still enjoy the bulk of the game. With Factions, the arenas ARE the game - 80% of the content of this game will be the PvP arenas and mini-games, therefore the leavers are going to be much more of a problem than in C1. Something needs to be done to solve this problem, otherwise Factions will fall flat on its face. Right now, I see the problem degenerating into both sides having spies constantly sabo the matches. Limiting access to the other side's arenas will help, but then that penalizes the PvEer who would prefer to explore both territories. Having Faction account based limits the PvEers in what they can do at any particular point in the game - not fun. Unfortunately, I would rather deal with this as a PvEer than deal with what the arenas offered in the preview. There are other issues relating to the Faction and what it will allow PvEers to access that really don't apply to this topic, but need fixing nonetheless. Since Anet has decided to make Factions very PvP centric, then the problem of spies, traitors, leavers, etc. need to be handled prior to the release of the game. And yes, I believe there should be some kind of penalty for leavers. I have used a dial-up for most of my play time in C1 before being able to get broadband, and rarely had a connection issue, so that's no excuse. And as someone else said, if you are having connection issues, then you absolutely should not be teaming up for PvP or PvE action - either way, your constantly dropped connection hurts the other players on the team - go solo until your problem clears up. |
Nice post
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by Dj Tano
Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.
Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission? |
Pandora's box
Its a game. And we play games to have fun! Penalties don't belong in a game. It should be about rewards. So make rewards for those who complete a match, no matter if it was won or lost.
Make it so players who lost a match still win something, e.g. on their record. Make player records SHOW how many matches were played, how many times they dropped, how many were completed, won or lost, etc. Dont start a random match without giving everyone a short amount of time to take a look at the team and decide if its worth playing with this team. Frequent drop outs will penalize themselves this way!
Give players an objective to keep playing. If a match is necessary to access a new map, give the winners a key to that map. And give the ones who stayed in the losing party a 1/3 key. This way its worth to keep playing! Abuse? If you see someone with only losses on his record you are free to leave within 1 or 2 minutes, remember?
Anyway, PLEASE try a differend point of view! Our society already is too much based on penalizing bad behaviour rather than rewarding the good
Make it so players who lost a match still win something, e.g. on their record. Make player records SHOW how many matches were played, how many times they dropped, how many were completed, won or lost, etc. Dont start a random match without giving everyone a short amount of time to take a look at the team and decide if its worth playing with this team. Frequent drop outs will penalize themselves this way!
Give players an objective to keep playing. If a match is necessary to access a new map, give the winners a key to that map. And give the ones who stayed in the losing party a 1/3 key. This way its worth to keep playing! Abuse? If you see someone with only losses on his record you are free to leave within 1 or 2 minutes, remember?
Anyway, PLEASE try a differend point of view! Our society already is too much based on penalizing bad behaviour rather than rewarding the good
MasterDinadan
To discourage people from leaving --
Why not allow the losing team to be rewarded a bit of faction (but not nearly as much as the winning team?) It would encourage people to stay in the game even if they know they will lose (at least it won't be a COMPLETE waste of time if they get SOMETHING)
Battlegrounds in World of WarCraft do this (I hate to compare to WoW but...) and people almost never left a battleground without a legitimate reason, because you could get a mark of honor even if you lose (which equates to about 1/6th of what you get for winning, give or take)
Now, this encourages players to join a battle and just go AFK so they reap even a small reward when their team loses (which is likely). In this case, make it so a player that does nothing for a certain period of time is not entitled to receive any faction from the game. So, players have absolutely NO incentive to join a game in AFK because they will earn nothing from it (it doesn't actually stop them from doing it, but why would they want to?)
Ok, that still leaves on reason for people to do it... Spy/Saboteuge whatever. The circumstances of this can be pretty complicated... but perhaps the game can keep track of how much a player "contributes" to the team. In other words, it looks at how often a player with aggressive skills uses the skills (or attacks) while within range of an enemy, or how often a player with support skills uses these skills when nearby allies are engaged in battle. If the contribution detection system sees that the player is rarely using skills or attacking during battles, it will catch him as a turncloak ^.^. If this happens in a series of several games, they are put on a semi-long term ban from playing a battle WITH THAT FACTION (they can still play with the other faction, since if a player is trying to make Luxon lose by playing poorly on Luxon's team, then they should still be able to play on Kurzick's team, where they SHOULD be if they want Luxon to lose).
The contribution requirements to avoid being banned would not be too much... so players that simply aren't very good shouldn't be caught by it... while players who are OBVIOUSLY not trying to help their team or hurt the other team will be.
Why not allow the losing team to be rewarded a bit of faction (but not nearly as much as the winning team?) It would encourage people to stay in the game even if they know they will lose (at least it won't be a COMPLETE waste of time if they get SOMETHING)
Battlegrounds in World of WarCraft do this (I hate to compare to WoW but...) and people almost never left a battleground without a legitimate reason, because you could get a mark of honor even if you lose (which equates to about 1/6th of what you get for winning, give or take)
Now, this encourages players to join a battle and just go AFK so they reap even a small reward when their team loses (which is likely). In this case, make it so a player that does nothing for a certain period of time is not entitled to receive any faction from the game. So, players have absolutely NO incentive to join a game in AFK because they will earn nothing from it (it doesn't actually stop them from doing it, but why would they want to?)
Ok, that still leaves on reason for people to do it... Spy/Saboteuge whatever. The circumstances of this can be pretty complicated... but perhaps the game can keep track of how much a player "contributes" to the team. In other words, it looks at how often a player with aggressive skills uses the skills (or attacks) while within range of an enemy, or how often a player with support skills uses these skills when nearby allies are engaged in battle. If the contribution detection system sees that the player is rarely using skills or attacking during battles, it will catch him as a turncloak ^.^. If this happens in a series of several games, they are put on a semi-long term ban from playing a battle WITH THAT FACTION (they can still play with the other faction, since if a player is trying to make Luxon lose by playing poorly on Luxon's team, then they should still be able to play on Kurzick's team, where they SHOULD be if they want Luxon to lose).
The contribution requirements to avoid being banned would not be too much... so players that simply aren't very good shouldn't be caught by it... while players who are OBVIOUSLY not trying to help their team or hurt the other team will be.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by MasterDinadan
To discourage people from leaving --
Why not allow the losing team to be rewarded a bit of faction (but not nearly as much as the winning team?) |
The only thing this system does, is encourage people to drop early. I had people start dropping when the team was under by 30 points for 70, ie right at the start of the match.
EDIT: Basically, stick-and-carrot is more effective than just carrot. Or just stick.
Hanok Odbrook
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Originally Posted by Dj Tano
Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.
Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission? |
Now, if your team was fully aware before the mission began that there was a good chance you couldn't see it all the way through, that's a different story. However, if they were operating under the assumption that you were in it until the end, then you should be penalized just as you penalized the team by leaving them a man short.
In reply to Pandora's, I do believe rewards for sticking it out would be a great benefit, but that still does not solve the problem of those griefers who just don't care and the spies who are only out to sabo the team. And I think we can all agree from personal experience that there are a great many of those types of players out there so there needs to be penalities for their actions.
Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace
Kool Pajamas
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Originally Posted by Dj Tano
Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.
Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission? I dont think so. I think that you should just leave me as i am, but so that the other people dont get penalized, replace the leaver with a copy of him as a henchmen. Of course it will not be as good as the real player, but its still better then doing a mission without a person, or even worse if the leaver is something important as a healer. For the factions battle the way to solve the problem is much easyer. You enter a faction battle, and have fun. You leave and you cant join that exact battle again, but only others. This way no people can spy. (btw i think leavers should be replaced by henchmen clones in pvp too) |
Puliver
All suggestion you made here are good intended but they will penalty even those who aren't doing bad thing because it's "fun" but because they must do it right now. I got something that will affect only those who are leaving too often. Let's say we have a special title track to become a Leaver. Each time you leave a PvP battle during fight, you gain a point, when you get 10 poinst or so, you gain an account title "Leaver". The special about this title is that after each 2 hours of gameplaying you lost one point from this title track so if you leave because you must and it's not often, you will be not affected by this, but those who are leaving too often can get this title or they will not be allowed to enter a pvp battle until their points are lower than 10. This way leavers will be "punished". This can be combined with reinforcement option.
Taala
Eh? You posted to one year old thread just to advertise your other thread in Sardelac?