New type of playable character (Dragon).

Dragons would just not fit the lore. Dragons(serpents) were there before the men, and then most of the dragons with a few exceptions such as Glint and Kuunvang, left the world. And I dont get what you want the dragons to be, seems like a race/class by what I read..

Perhaps Beast races in chapter 4? But then only the professions unique to the chapter, the core professions should stay human(oid) to still be recognizable on the field.

I took one look at the title of the thread and my opinion has not changed: no dragons. If you take the time to read the Lore and not try to push all the DnD/Freelance stuff on it you'll see that dragons (or, more officially: the serpents) were created by the Gods to be the caretakers of Tyria. With the exception of Glint and perhaps a few others, they all left when humans were ripping the continent apart at the seams with their radical magic. Those who remained remained isolated from everyone else, for everyone else is mortal and therefore insignificant.

Glint is probably the only exception, as she created the Flameseeker Prophecies and spread them by means only she is aware of to such people as the monk who Devona sends you to in presearing (who later becomes 'the screamer' in post searing Northern Frontier, professing that the prophecies are at hand)(note: it's either Northern Frontier or the Great Northern Wall mission, I can't recall) so that the words ultimately reach your character.

Even in Cantha the only dragon we see is Kuunavang (and some salt spray dragons), who would never associate more than necessary with more mortals than necessary.

In short: dragons or demidragons would not be a suitable player-race in Guild Wars. So just get over the visions of it and go play Neverwinter Nights to get your DnD fix.

There is a difference between a new humanoid race, which would likely use the same proffessions as humans, and a new character like Dragon.

I have already explained this several times, but since it has been so long, I can recap. These Creature type Characters don't have proffessions, but are a seperate type of their own, they have unique attributes and skills which only they can use, and they can't combine classes. It is basicly a stand-alone class (not solo), they still need to be balanced with other classes, but they have several attributes and skills which cover multiple facets because they cannot draw on secondaries for alternate abilities, since they can't combine classes, and they have some unique abilities (like any class) to make them original.

There is no Dragon/anything else, or anything else/Dragon, there is only Dragon, and the attributes and skills. That is the whole concept of "Creature Characters" rather than "Proffession Characters". It is in the original post, and anyone who claims they read it but didn't realize that obviously didn't read it.

Many of the creatures in the game are some sort of hybrid of common classes and creature skills which only they can use, it would be a pain to make a full set of creature skills, which are basicly the same, for every creature in the game so it is simple to see why Anet doesn't. But Creatures don't abide by the weapon type limitations, same armor constraints, and many other factors, which is what seperates them from humanoid characters. Making a Creature type class playable would simply put those kinds of factors into a playable class. They make a complete set of original skills, attributes which power their skills and some passive effects, and some original abilities. Over all it is just dynamic and creative use of graphics, and abilities, it doesn't actually make the Creature classes do anything that isn't already in the game. For a Dragon to fly, the animation simply places them remotely over the ground, and they gain a "Flying" effect which gives them a defensive advantage and dissadvantage. It isn't an ability to move up and down on the z axis, it is an animation which allows them to move "over" other units, and changes their defensive allignment. It wouldn't actually fly any different than the saltspray dragons on the Jade Sea, it is just an animation with some effects.

I appreciate that someone brang up my long lost and favorite thread, it has pretty much been buried in newb replies which don't even recognize the suggestion I have written, so I would rather redevelope the thread and start a new topic, perhaps I will when I have something grand and new to add to the idea. Thanks for your comments, ever how informed or lacking they are, and thanks for the support and appreciation as well.

Yeah, I thought the serpents where Dragons as well..... they arn't. The serpents in the folklore are the Forgotten, not dragons.

There is no mention of dragons in the folklore except that they exsist, and have exsisted before time recorded, and perhaps wern't even made by the gods, probably like the Seer and the Mursatt.

There arn't alot of normal dragons in the game so far, the bone dragons are obviously dead, and the saltspray dragons are under a madness of the affliction, the only sane dragons are Glint and Kuunavang, who are both allies. Glint has eggs, thus, another generation of Dragons, that's really all the story line you need. There wasn't any storyline for Cantha before it was created, and Elona was originally a wiped out civilization, apparently not all wiped out...

Obviously when you make a new chapter you get new storyline, obviously what dragons do in previous chapters doesn't apply to what they are doing in new chapters because these are under different circumstances, in said future chapter there could (would) be a very significant reason for Dragons to participate. Lack of creativity isn't a barrier it is just your weakness of mind, please stop assuming it can't be done because your mind can't wrap around it.

As usual everyone who denies my idea proves they are simply to lazy or lacking to understand or respect my idea anyway, and can't recognize enough to have any real imput anyways, so I don't have anything to relay except what I have already developed. I apologize if this is way over your head and to complicated for you to understand, but all this petty denial is about as significant as an elementry school childs opinion in a College Philosophy Seminar. I make complete, advanced ideas, and if your not capable of reading them, that is fine, but don't make idiotic comments on something you don't and maybe can't understand, this isn't for kindergarteners. Read the OP or skip this thread.

Since you are covering the two point about Cross classing with dragon and story involvement with a dragon character, somehow I got to feeling this reply is direcly point twoard me, and that in an underline context, you are calling name to me (or to several above posters) names such as uncreative, idotic, kindergartener, who are unable to graps the magnificient of your idea.

I really like you AJ, but the simple truth is your wrong and you proved it, I'm not insulting anything, I am identifying, yal are insulting yourselves.

I wouldn't call you an idiot just because you where wrong, it is those who berate me ignorantly that I call out, if you feel offended than maybe you should learn to read though, it truely does take only an elementry education to do that much, and I called that out as well.

Again, I apologize that you and many others are not perceptive enough to read a OP and respond accordingly.

I really don't like quoting, particularly information which is in the thread I am in, because the only people it realy helps is people who are to lazy to read what the OP and conversation is really about, but since YOU NEED IT. I will entertain you...

Your response.

I overlook your remarks because I like you, though I didn't bother to point out exactly who I was responding to since most of you rang the same BS. But it is your own comments which insult you, so tell me what you think of yourself since your so offended by my "honesty".

those two are subject of concern because its two area that GW stand unique on, and one of the "core" to their game. Won't you say GW pride itself as a game where you can get unlimted combination of proffession and skills? Taking out this ascept of the game for a character seem going back to the stand set-class of other game. (DH)

PvE and its mission-base story is another big focus. It might be alright to have story that invlove dragon as main character, but if you were take such character back to the previous campaign, than it seem strange. Also you didn't address about my comment how strang it is for dragon to do regular human activity (WTB and running in town and stuff)

Now, this is not a new topic, and I have post several replies in it before (in another fourm), and if you read those, you would understand my stand and possible modification to better suit the game (or atleast IMO). I also had few words about being able to play "special characters" (like charr or tengu) in other threads as well. But I guess you never bother to read other's thought, and is rather satisfy with your own.

Now, you also just call me wrong and a idiot, as well as didn't learn to read, which is not true, since if I cann't read, I won't be able to catch your subtle hint of name calling, or that you might be homosexual.
(and if you can also understand read, you would also get that this is a humorous by trying to take appearent cheap shots at you)

(PS. I never claim I read the whole thing, nor is it require to put your own opinions and a topic)
---------------------------------------------------------------

And my stance still stand. I agree on a "Special Character" for a less-humonid/cultral race, but disagree on making them a RP character.

A special character would be one that you play more just for fun, and less for character development/customization. They would be limited to certain zones where they can play, and usually come with a pre-determined level/weapon/armor/skills.

For fore a creature such as dragon, I still would not want to see them as a RP character (which I guess is what you want)

ehh... over-population I also predict.
/notsigned

You don't have to read the whole thing, but bringing up impossible difficulties, ones which don't apply to my idea, of which I have already made preperation for, is ignorant. Honestly, your pointless backtalk is pathetic, I had respect for you since you make some nice comics and stuff, but your immaturity just put that all out the door, think whatever you like, you really are the moron you assumed to be.

Dragons don't have hands, they I've discussed this extensively and you should have remembered. You can't put a sword in a dragons hand, simple things like this make Dragon an impractical character to use with classes like Warrior and Ranger. And because they cannot, using exsisting proffessions as secondaries would not work because of simple but obvious (to me and not you apparently) reasons.

This is the most practical way to make a dragon part of the game, so whether it should or shouldn't be this way really isn't a topic. Making a demihuman class really doesn't pertain to dragons, they can make any sort of demihuman with exsisting professions, but doing that with a dragon is just a pathetic substitution and may as well not exsist at all. It would be nice to play as exsisting or other races with exsisting classes, but making some weak dragon demi is lame IMO and to anyone else who appreciates dragons.

And whether or not they fit is just a personal preferance, I have no problem at all seeing a Dragon run around Ascolon helping humans, Hydras don't attack the Char...., Humans can have alliances with creatures, they have one with drawves, they have one with Tengu, and they have one with powerful dragons, some of which are well known like Kuunavang.

As I have always said, there is only one disapproval that stands, you may not like it. I personally don't care what people like you, like or dislike. People will believe whatever they want to, but the ending statement is that it can be done, and many people would enjoy it. People didn't think they could add new classes, and bitched about how they would leave if anything like an assassin was added into their D&D universe, I told them the same thing im telling you now, So What?, I don't care what you think because it can be done anyways and it will sell games.

Customizable role playing strategy characters arn't totally unique, and if there is anything more cliche than sticking to one kind of playable character than tell me. Most games have either all the same race, different races stapled to certain proffessions, maybe even several races with several of the same professions to choose from. A branch off into an alternate creature class is hardly common, being able to play as a true dragon is extremely rare, and having that sort of thing in a game like this is outstanding.

Making a stand alone class which doesn't combine with proffessions doesn't mean it can't have an assortment of abilities, as I said, since it doesn't have the ability to combine with other classes his skills and attributes would have to cover a wide range of capabilities to provide diversity, but you wouldn't catch that even after I just quoted it to you from the first part of the OP, your dense as a mountain, and what do you come up with?, Immature insults of no relavence.

I appreciate your contributions to the community AJ, but I'm cutting you off now.

You seem to have a double standard yourself.

As a thread post on a public fourm, it is givien that you are asking people to give their feedbacks, and it is their own choice to voice what opinon or suggestion to your idea, be they like it or not, be they read the whole thing or not, be they have anything good to say or not.

My replies start out as a simple comment about what I think should/and shouldn't for a new race/character, which are alos not directly point to whats in the OP, the dragon. It was just an opinion off my head seeing this thread be bump.

However, one thin I can not take is you direct name calling and personal attacks. Answer me this: Was I the one who start calling name? Did I use any negative words that is point out to you? Was Idot, moron, and stupid in my vocabulary? Was there a spiteful tone of thinking everyone but himself is a fool in my post? If so, than I apologies.

I am not certain why you think your ideas are perfect and with out fault, that everyone should see the world in you eye, and that you are too small to listen to other. If so, I would suggest not to post, and keep your though private, since that is what public fourm do.

First of all, I didn't directly call you anything until you attacked me, so that is your fault. Second of all, I have just as much right to spew your ignorance back at you for giving false and misinformed feedback on a topic you didn't even bother to read. And third of all, I simply spelled out your ignorance in proper english, ever how insulting it might be, it is truth and not slander, unlike your remarks.

If you don't like being ignorant than read the thread and understand it before making remakes, if you have a right to post BS without reading the topic than you certainly don't have the right to tell me I can't refute your ignorance. If you don't like harsh conversation than don't include yourself in it expecting someone else to quit. And if you don't like slander than perhaps you shouldn't do it, because your the only one who is.

Answer this, did I directly call you a name before you directly attacked me? No, I made a broad statement against general ignorance. Did you expect an impersonal response when you started attacking me because you felt ashamed of your ignorance? This is the problem with you liberal minds, you think it is alright to spew slander and insults on a peerless idea before even recognizing it than tell me it is wrong to insult in return because it offends you, your a damn moron if you think your falsehoods do not belong to you, or that their reprocusions are my fault.

My idea doesn't have to be perfect, I am not a paid developer. What I did make is an complete and balanced idea far beyond the judgement of idiots like you, and instead you cross me with statements saying the idea is broken because of difficulties which in actuallity I have already remedied from the beginning. You certainly can't help me develope nor correct an idea which you don't even understand, which is why you earn this rebuke, because that is exactly what your doing, trying to correct work you didn't even recognize.

I have every right to defend the success of my ideas and cut down the ignorant more than you do to insult it because of your ignorance, so stop trying tell me to shut up because you can't handle logical and peerless developement, nor bother to take the time to recognize it, your flat out wrong.

There is only one double standard here, you think you can post whatever crap you want without recognizing the thread, yet think it is wrong for me to correct and rebuke you for your ignorance. You call it a public and free thought thread until I freely correct you and put you in your place.

Quite frankly I think all of these ignorant comments are a gross failure of oversight by the moderators. This should never have developed into a flame, the moderators should have removed all these ignorant and off topic denials which don't pertain to the subject at hand, but they didn't, and I have to defend it myself. So I have nothing to be ashamed of but your behavior. Frankly, there wouldn't be but about 5 remarks left if they removed all the off topic responses, because almost all of you said the same BS. It would probably be easier if this thread was just erased and I remade it, I do have the OP copied to my HD, so I wouldn't care.

So? Assassins and Ritualists were also overpopulating the game when Factions first came out...the class spread will be more diverse as time goes on, and it doesn't take more time.

Oops, regarding the z axis i completely overlooked the Saltspray dragon. So animations/special effects work.

Looking at the posts, there really isn't much you can argue against the mechanics or balancing or lore (especially for lore...Anet can add twists however they want anyway). The concept is simple...it's a dragon (though not a powerful ancient one).

Your Phoenix concept strikes me as...random. DoT spreading? Yeah it *works*...just don't see why you decided that :P. I think you should focus more on the protective/resurrection side of the phoenix though if you wish to further develop it.

Turtles and water is easy enough. Shell bash ?

No opinion of the Kirin yet.

The idea itself is a good one, but not for GW. To quote others before me, it is simply not in the "spirit" of GW. The concept of Guild Wars is just that: guilds battling for power and control and bragging rights. Mythical creatures joining in on the petty squabbles of humans just doesn't seem to fit.
And yes, I read the entire opening post. Dragons are not professions, they are an entirely different type of character. They are fairly balanced, but again, they just don't fit in Guild Wars. It's possible that in the coming chapters some turn in the story would make it less of a leap for dragons to come into play, but as of yet it is very unlikely.


I would find it slightly more feasible if Dragons were specialized elementalists as they are portrayed in Shiro'ken Elementalists, Saltspray Dragons, and the Celestial Dragon; Kirins as Monks, Phoenixes as Mesmers, Turtles as Necromancers... and so on.

Well back in Prophecies, who would've thought Assassins were going to be implemented?

But I don't see how dragons can't come into play in certain guild wars (dragons amongst themselves may have their own battles...East vs. West being a cursory example). Remember it all depends on the lore.

To reiterate: It's possible that in the coming chapters some turn in the story would make it less of a leap for dragons to come into play, but as of yet it is very unlikely.

That is true. But all of this would be a lot of work for ArenaNet, and as we see here many people wouldn't like it. Instead of introducing this concept to Guild Wars, I think it would fit better in a separate series or an offshoot of GW that recounts the events before the Forgotten were forced into the desert or even before the gods left.

Debating about this is useless, in my opinion, because all we base our facts on can be changed by ArenaNet at their whim. The fate of Guild Wars is in their hands.

Well, someone already mention it, there is a half-dragon race in DnD, and there is a Prestige class call dragon deciple and when character take this PrC, they advancing towards the dragon and at last, they assumed the Half-Dragon Template, they can fly and they Breath Fire as well as increasing in Str, Con, Cha.

Anyway, i would like to play asa Mursaat or the forgotten or simply Half dragon.

That is exactly my point, people keep trying to tell me it can't work, and it can, it is really up to Anet to decide.

Making customizable Dragon features for players to create with really isn't any more programing than making a new creature NPC or making 5 piecies of armor X 10 sets. It is really just dynamic use of things we already have in the game.

As soon as I would like to see this, I imagine Anet wouldn't implement it soon if at all, but with new chapters every 6 months there is plenty of room for radical additions, and without radical additions, the game will become stail very quickly.

As well, it takes less effort to balance a Character class that cannot be combine with Profession classes. There isn't a /dragon option, and there isn't a dragon/anything else, so the skills and attributes only need to be balanced for the skills Dragon has available, not to with every class combination in the game (which is steadily multiplying), it may very well turn out to be much easier to balance a stand alone class than balance a new proffession with 10, 12 or 20 other exsisting proffessions and all of their skill options.

And lastly, most people love dragons and think their awsome, even the people who think it couldn't be done. It isn't about who would like to play as a dragon, it is about who thinks it can be done or whether it is appropriate. Honestly, it can be made appropriate, they have more than enough chapters to introduce this background, as if they couldn't do it instantly with the chapter it woud be available in.

There is a difference between a half dragon or demi and a total dragon, I never said it hasn't been done, Horizons did it, but never in a good online RPG, and never in a competative RPG, adding dragons to GW is revolutionary. A demi dragon is no different than a demi anything else, a set of dragon shaped armor with a dragon mask is just as good as a demi, just a look. I'm introducing an idea to "be a dragon" not some half baked substitution. What's better? a Dragon, or a Demi-dragon?, why make a lesser imitation? just to make it easier to accept?, it certainly isn't better. I would perfer the actual dragon not an alternative.

I didn't want to repost so soon, so this is just edited for Knight. An example of what people like and think is acceptable in the game.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=10656
As I have said, most people will admit that they like dragons, and whether they admit it or not, would like to play as a dragon given the chance. The people here don't think it can be done, that is the overwhelming yet false concensus, lack of creativity isn't a limitation as I have proven in the past.

I woln't say that a Dragon morphing class couldn't be done, but Dervish can morph into the gods, and they arn't invincible. They can make a morphing class without using dragon to the same effect, but it still doesn't provide the ever elusive ability to actually be a dragon in totality, as restated, it is a substitution. How about instead we have a Dragon who morphs into a human wile in town just to keep things kosher?

i don't think this will be implemented, no matter how hard you try because alot of people don't want to see dragons as a playable species.

i really prefered NWN where you had morphing spells where you could morph into dragons and other creatures, such as trolls, undead etc

i personally prefer shadow dragons to the other dragon groups
i wouldn't mind having the ability to be or to be able to morph into a dragon.

im sure its already posted but when in "flight mode" for example a warrior cant hit the dragon ?

im sure its already posted but when in "flight mode" for example a warrior cant hit the dragon ? so the dragon would be like imba vs assassin and warrior . and, i dont think the dragon is fitting with guild wars at all , maybe a new charr race. but dragons r to big :P but nice idea

cool idea. very nice one

Has anyone considered the simply fact that Dragons wouldnt fit inside towns and cities?

Once playable characters start too get big, it will just be funny and annoying to see them all trying to fit into the countless tiny villages or towns throughout GWs.

Imagine having 5 "moderate" sized dragons trying to move about inside The Warcamp. Imagine those towns which have stairs or bridges or multiple levels. Imagine trying to get access to storage when you have 5 dragons stood around it.

They couldnt use the "traditional" shaped dragon because it simply wouldnt fit and would clog up locations. They might not fit out through portals.

If they introduced a dragon species to play as, they would have to be humanised. But I expect that defeats the idea which the OP had. I expect the OP wants large winged, long creatures. Not humanised Dragons.

Is exactly the same thing as a new class.

You only have playerable characters, non-playerable classes (NPC), henches and Heroes (now).

If your suggesting it be a hench or a hereo, then ok thats a bit more reasonable and sensible.

But then you still have the issue of space and fitting a dragon hench inside a city or a town. Some of which are still too small for a moderate sized hench like a dragon.

You also have the issue of fighting along side a dragon as a hench or Heroe....

...if its too big, then every time it moves in to strike, all your characters will mingle and you wont be able to see anything while the Dragon lays into the bad guy.

You can see evidence of that in Factions when you get attacked by chinese dragons or the weird Dragons after the Temple. If they get too close, they just obstruct the view.

Just to make a point...

...Bone dragons.
...Glint.
...The chinese style friendly Dragon who you meet at the end of Factions (forgot name).
...The chinese style dragons who you fight once you reach the jade sea.
...The weird, evil dragons which Shiro controls after the temple.
...The pet dragons you can capture.

Only two of which are intrigril to the story line, because you have to fight them, they tell you where to go next in the story and you get a monster skill from one to kill Shiro.

Thats the extent of their involvement.

The others are either just creatures to kill or a pet.

So its hardly right to be calling people morons, just because they dont get their thrills from Dragons like yourself. Not everyone pays indepth attention to "Ooo another Dragon".

How nice of you to take the time to make undeveloped responses, out of context, and BTW, there is unlimited edit time, double posting isn't appropriate or sanctioned. Good of you to join the community

I pointed out that persons ignorance because he said there are no dragons beyond the bone dragons in Kryta, and that they were a long dead race. Really, anyone who hasn't bothered to play through or study the game has no place making speculations about what does and doesn't belong, since they don't know enough to comment. The point I defended is that Dragons are in GW already, and there where not only living Dragons in Tyria, but there were future offspring, readily noticable when you meet glint for the first time. A PERFECT set up for future involvement with dragons.

Crowding is a very weak difficulty, truely, there are not enough people to make a decent party in current chapters for most areas, the only place you see alot of people is in bonified cities, and retro chapters get even less action, crowding is an extreme mute point, on top of which preperation can be made in the event of such addition. As you might know, there are multiple storage agents in populated areas to make more room for players to access NPCs in town, furthermore, better access can be invented to avoid this problem altogether, this has next to nothing to do with whether dragons are an enjoyable or acceptable character option, only pointless and easily remedied difficulties.

The size I had in mind is about the size of a Wallow, maybe a slight bit bigger, smaller than something like a Yak. Size and blocking is a useful tactic to add to the game, as even Warriors "tank" possition really only helps them survive, and makes them key units to send in first. A character class which causes extra blocking is in a possition to provide better defense via blocking to his allies. But if I didn't make it clear enough, the option to fly over other characters allows Dragons to remove character blocking from the equation, in their favor of course.

I never said there was no way to "humanize" dragons either, I said that anything short of a Dragon is weak, and going for second and third attractions is a mistake. I already mentioned that a good way to make Dragons more functional in town is to have Human counterparts, or avatars which roam about wile they are in town. Note Glints "projection" in Droknars forge, Dragons could make an astral image to help them navigate peaceful areas.

People brought up the idea that it would be easier to have a human which turned into a dragon when they left town, well that comes second to a dragon who can turn into a human to enter town, working up to dragon is never as good as working down from it, being the dragon is impressive because you actually are a dragon, not a human imitating one. And to update that issue, Dervish can turn into avatars of the Gods, Why would someone practice the art of turning into something less than the most powerful beings in exsistance? Imitating a dragon comes second to imitating a god, but being a dragon is just as good.

And obviously you are another brief skimmer and don't bother to even capture the founding plot of the idea, a Dragon "Character" is different than other Profession based classes because it cannot combine with other Professions for alternate capabilities, the basis of this idea is introducing creatures as playable characters, which arn't just different looking humanoids with the same pool of classes to draw from, but unique Creature classes which have Singular class attributes and functions, without the combination of other profession based classes at their disposal, Dragon was just my primary aim for this idea, good of you to recognize it.

Thank you for restating all of the above with nothing new to add to the conversation except that there are even more lazy, and brief (and likely less capable than I will bother to describe) People out there to prejudge an idea, instead of taking the time to consider the idea or learn what has been developed from the begining and thus far.

P.S. closer inspection will show that many of the people who think the idea doesn't even work still like dragons and think it would be cool, they just don't think it will work, I am not the only person who has an interest in the most impressive creature in fantasy....

Well now that you've actually given an exact comparison for size, it makes more sense.

And yes, by designing large towns and cities, you could avoid that problem of size. But if we have too many towns and cities which are on a grand-scale then it in turn cause other issues.

The larger the towns, the fewer we can have.

I was actually trying to defend your original idea of 100% dragons, and stating that I didnt think humanised Dragons would fit into the idea.

What do you expect? Someone makes one tiny comment and you reply by woffling on for half-an-hour. The stuff you say might be valid, but im not going to sit here and read 5 paragraphs worth of text. It gets boring after the first 2.

I actually looked through all the replies to your entry and found that NO one had considered the very simply fact that LARGE or MEDIUM sized dragons, would have issues fitting into towns and cities as henches or playable characters.

So what exactly was I restating?

Yes I actually like the idea.

Yes I think it could work.

I was simply mentioning issues that have to be fixed before hand.

You have to learn how to speak to people in a nicer manor, or no one is going to take your opinions seriously. If you continue to reply to every comment, in a degrading manor, with the intent of making others look stupid, then who is going to listen to you?

No one is reading your long-winded comments, because their a combination of intelligence and sheer insult.

If you put an idea accross, you have to be open to criticism.




But again... I do think its a good idea! So there really wasnt any need to be rude.

Bahamut, u have to stop insulting people and take your own words seriously, you attacked Freeked accusing him of "Skimming" yet from your replies it seems you didn't even read his replys but went into instant attack mode.

I think that Dragons would have to be humanized or be able to cloack themselves as human in towns like in Forgotten Realms.
therefore we don't need 9 large towns, we can have 2 and 15 medium towns and 20 tiny towns.

Although ur idea seems valuable, and yes everyone likes Dragons,
but regardless about everyone liking dragons the problem is that even ones the size of Yaks would add up because everyone will be Dragons

A more likeable thing would be to be able to choose to be a dwarf, charr, minotaur, Forgotten, and the other intelligent races, hell I'd like to play as a Zombie or Yeti.

Right now i dont think that dragons would fit in as characters. If ur going to have a dragon it should be large so ur like the other dragons in the game and im not into thinking how the dragons got to be human size with hands and feet O.o. Charr is something i would LOVE to play. IMO charr are the coolest ever and would be easy to make into characters(finding unique skills would be hard though) also tengu and avicara would be a much more better choice than dragons because there seen as allies more than dragons and would also be easier to make into characters. What i havent seen anyone mention but i would think would be the coolest of all is dredge. They seem to be the easiest to give there own skills to and are also seen as allies(sometimes). Dragons just doesnt seem easy to work with easpecially since it would be wierd as a human/dragon.

EDIT - U could be a dragon outcast for being incredibly short =P

I guess this is my own fault for removing the link to the original discussion.
http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38674

This has been discussed more elsewhere, I don't remember which forums what was said in. Besides the fact, there are posters on this forum who mentioned size, and it isn't a problem. Players can move through eachother in town, thus it matters very little how big they are anyway.

Now as for the possition of my response, You started your reply with a Supposition, that Dragons "would be to big", "they cannot use traditional dragons", and "they would have to be humanized to fit in town".

When you make false and inaccurate claims you earn a rebuttal, and I feel no pitty for serving it. Your another in a long line of nay sayers who don't bother to consider the possibilities, rather making false claims via a narrow perspective. You can read your first reply again and tell me that isn't what you said........

You come into the thread of perhaps the most developed class writer on this forum, and start making claims against an my idea, and expect vindication, your just crazy. Believe me, I am 100 fold more demanding and scrutinous than any of you want to be, which is why I come up with the most radical and original abilities and functions around the most impressive characters. Your responses are about as valid as a middle schooler entering a medical school and questioning a doctors methods.

Let me correct your post,

"What size should they be?"

"I don't know how large creatures could operate in small towns and cities."

"If they are too big, it might be annoying if these creatures populate small towns."

"Just a few large characters could cause serious blockage, expecailly around certain frequently visited NPCs (Storage Agent)."

"I can't imagine them using traditional dragons, they may be too big."

Do you see the difference? Case and point, these don't exsist, thus the terms, "can't", "will", and "are", do not belong in your response, because it is theoretical. By process of reason and elimination you can come up with some barriers to which would need to be addressed, but assuming that there is no way just because there is an obvious difficulty is the product of a narrow, undeveloped, and often ignorant perspective.

If you don't like the tone of my response, than stop being offensive, I am only returning the tone which you are setting. Just because you realized that I don't like the idea of humans morphing into dragons doesn't mean you paid legitmate respect to the idea or the writer. You actually defended some of the responses on this thread, as if they didn't deserve the response they received.

And since you re-read the "whole post" and misread twice, I will do one of my least favorite tasks, and quote myself so you can recognize.

As you can see, by even the 4th paragraph, your first 2 issues where addressed, even if I didn't get particular about the need for a reasonable size at that time, or even in this forum. So when you tell me "I read the thread" and "You are being critical", what I hear is "I am a lazy liar", and "Your idea is to complicated for me".

Feel free to practice your right to make completely invalid comments, I will feel even more welcome to correct you. Or, if you have even a slight morsel of maturity, you can admit your repeated mistake, and reconsider the idea in a proper light. I for one, will always meet these kinds of responses with searing rebuke, because I feel it is an extremely lacking ingredient in modern discussion, which is why people believe that whatever crosses their mind is a valid and justifiable point, and they can argue it even if they have absolutely no perspective or relavance.

Thank you....again, for your "contribution".

P.S. You got this response because there was a chance you might learn something, not because my idea needed proving, I, as usual, covered 95% of anyones concern in the OP to begin with, and almost never get the opportunity to discuss relavent points because the vast majority of responses go straight into topics I have already mentioned or refined.

Edit. Just had to point out one more supposition.

And than you return saying that even you like dragons, I'm glad you can point out issues which where already mentioned from the start, as if you were contributing. Obviously, the first statement you should make in a response to an idea is whether or not you like it, not in retorspect after being hammered. This is all the correction your going to get, make another mindless claim and I will just ignore you, and find valid topics to discuss with people who can develope logical and relavent opinions. Another?, this was the first Dragon character idea on any GW threads, correct me if I missed one in another language, and it is the only one which discusses Dragon characters rather than some sort of second rate morph.

You really cant handle criticism can you?

Its so blatenly obvious this has nothing to do with whether we agree with your idea about dragons or not.

Your just out to try and belittle people.

Your legitimising your insulting tone towards me and others, because we apparently start our replies in an insulting manor.

"If you don't like the tone of my response, than stop being offensive, I am only returning the tone which you are setting. "

Thats rubbish.

I never once, in any of my posts, said anything insulting. This is compared to you, who resorts to comments such as:

"I can't remember the last time I got a response from someone who could read a developed concept instead of making inaccurate protests"

"protesting my perspective wile proving your ignorance is quite unproductive to your cause"

"Where you get your analogies I wouldn't know, that's probably why I don't come up with broken analogies like you"

"But thank you for the bump, which is the only thing you accomplished"

"we might as well quote the entire thread to save every ignorant player from repeating their falisy"

"just because your mind can't grasp or accept radical suggestion doesn't make it unviable"

"As usual everyone who denies my idea proves they are simply to lazy or lacking to understand or respect my idea anyway, and can't recognize enough to have any real imput anyways"

"Again, I apologize that you and many others are not perceptive enough to read a OP and respond accordingly"

"but your immaturity just put that all out the door, think whatever you like, you really are the moron you assumed to be"

Replies to me which were completely unfounded, as I made no insults to you and I was actually rather polite...

"How nice of you to take the time to make undeveloped responses"

"And obviously you are another brief skimmer and don't bother to even capture the founding plot of the idea"

"Thank you for restating all of the above with nothing new to add to the conversation except that there are even more lazy, and brief (and likely less capable than I will bother to describe) People out there to prejudge an idea, instead of taking the time to consider the idea or learn what has been developed from the begining and thus far."

"Your another in a long line of nay sayers "

"your just crazy"

"Your responses are about as valid as a middle schooler entering a medical school and questioning a doctors methods"

"if you have even a slight morsel of maturity"



You cant even take a compliment, or accept it when someone agrees with you.

"And than you return saying that even you like dragons, I'm glad you can point out issues which where already mentioned from the start"




You dont care about us accepting your idea.

You just want to throw big words around and write page long entries to look better then everyone else.

Why should anyone take your opinions seriously, or even listen when your unable to speak to them with respect? Most people who will have read this entire thread will have lost interest in your idea long ago, because your quite simply wont accept any discussion about it. You wont accept criticism. You wont discuss it.

Why did you bother posting an entry, if you wont let people pick at the idea?

"If a few of you could help rather than flame, we could work together on some more detailed ideas for these creatures, and others if you have a good idea."

"This should never have developed into a flame"

Flaming is all you do. Its all your capable of, other then throwing big words around and spouting off for half-an-hour.



Again. This has nothing to do with your "idea". Its all about you wanting to boost your ego.







I liked your idea. I like the idea of dragons.

But I dont accept your idea and your views, quite simply because your aggressive and unwilling to discuss the actual idea.

I have no respect for your views.

Had you talked to people in here with respect and manors, then I wouldnt take that view.

But I cant stand being spoken to like a child, by a child.

Had I actually spoken to you with insults and assaulted you with words, then you would have been more then welcome to attack me back.

But I didnt. I put an idea down, which you didnt like, and you flamed.

You obviously like feeling superiour. Good for you. But your not going to get any respect handling people the way you do.

Ive no doubt you dont care and you will write a 10 page long attack to "defend yourself" and "back you ideas up" and "legitimise the way you spoke to people".

Go ahead. Ive lost interest. Any reply you do get will probably be me saying

"youve just proven my entire point".

NOTE:

And dont bother trying to use my bad gramma or spelling as fodder for flaming me back.

I don't have to defend anything, as I said before, my idea was sound from the day I conceived it. You obviously don't have the dignity to recognize your flaw, and instead of admitting your insult, which has nothing to do with how you feel about it, you just point out my rebuttal. I'll make this clear one last time, I don't say anything scathing or insulting to anyone who actually addressed the idea respectfully and asked me how it would work if they don't understand, you got exactly what you deserve.

You are too inadiquit to put half the effort of reading the idea rather than responding, and you think it is alright that you spend 10 times longer making inaccurate claims rather than studying the concept to begin with. A product of human liberalism and ignorance, and beyond correction, Ignored.

I think there's some megalomania thrown in with the need for superiority though insulting others.

After all, his idea was sound from the idea from the day he first concieved it.

And Bahamut... you are the most damning responder to charges of flaming that I've seen in a while. Congratulations for running head-on into the brick wall that is irony.

Seto Kaiba's Blue Eyes meets Spyro the Dragon sometime in Guild Wars Lore, sometime around 2000 BE (Before Exodus).


This seems to just be a flame war now (pun intended).



Until I see a dragon NPC in Guild Wars the size of a human/dwarf/tengu, I don't think this idea would.. fly.

All I have to say is I like the fact that there is only humans. It sets it appart from all the others. Instead of making more armor for other races or making armor more generic I rather they have more choices of human armor.

QFT ^_^

Ok so im going to respond. Purely because im high on tea.

At what point have I, or did I, ever use any derogatory words or terms towards you, your person, your intelligence, or your idea?

You'l find the answer is never, but if im wrong, I want a quote.

But not a quote where you consider my "language" as simply negative. I want a quote where I have actually used a derogatory term or word to insult you and/or your idea.

Then you can justify flaming me. Otherwise your agruement is void.

But yes I criticised the idea, and pointed out what I considered to be an issue. But that is the purpose of posting an idea on a forum, to have it picked at and questioned.

The purpose is not to post an idea and then chop down anyone who dares criticise it.

If that is all you intended to do, then why post your idea at all?

Its just more evidence that all you intended to do, was give people an excuse to question you, so you could attack them.

The fact that you excuse flaming others, by saying its because you consider their criticisms stupid, bad, or unjustified, is quite frankly pathetic.

I now have the image of teenagers standing on street corners, shouting abuse at people as they walk by, trying to get a reaction so they can attack them and then say "well they started it".

Is that really the impression you want to give to people about your character?

Do you really want people to think they cant criticise your idea, in fear of being flamed.

Your obviously not stupid, and you obviously like writing huge posts and using big words and all the rest. You seem very literate.

So why attack people and then lower yourself to a point, where people are going to fear trying to to have a discussion with you?

I must have said about 3 or 4 times now. I actually liked the idea.

As I have also already said. Had you not felt the need to flame people and resort to insults and attacking anyone who criticised the idea, then I would have listened to your opinion.

But as another poster said. Youve run yourself into a brig-wall by insulting everyone.

No one is going to listen to you or your ideas, if all you do is knock-them-down when they question it.

If this post has turned into nothing more then a flaming match, its no-ones fault but your own. You cant expect to throw insults around and not have someone eventually snap at you.

Look its not a matter of whos wrong whos right Bahumut, the facts are: Dragons are too big, they won't fit in towns, and they have an unfair blocking advantage. it doesn't matter if they are the size of yaks like u said, they'd still be twice as big as a warrior. and its unfair.

Stop feeding the Troll.

This accomplishes NOTHING.

I run head on into those walls alright, just to prove that they are imaginary. There arn't any legitimate problems. Blocking better isn't broken, it is another gameplay tool, anyone who isn't interested in anything new doesn't have anything to benifit from new chapters, so I'm not concerned about those who think things are bound to the way they currently are, they are the same people who thought new classes couldn't be balanced just because they wern't currently available in prophecies.

Heaven forbid that blocking was so effective that Deaths Charge and Dark Prison actually become valuable skills, counters are already available.

There are alot of creatures already in the game which have greater blocking, Yaks, Turtles, Drakes and Tree creatures of 2 types, I am introducing it in a playable form. There are already dragons in GW lore, making adolecent dragons a playable character isn't adding something new to the folklore, it just makes them playable. Whether this is accepted, or something else, change will happen, and pretending it can't is just ignorance, I have no sympathy for those who can't understand that.

P.S. your the one trolling my idea Cunning, not the other way around. Trolling is when Freekedoutfish comes spams incoherent and ignorant responses on a working idea without bothering to capture the fundimental functionality I have already developed.

Do you have selective reading?

I dont know how many times I must have said this by now. Your idea is good!

Do you get that? I like your idea!

But im still well within my rights, as if everyone else, to point out issues which we believe might be important. Hence a discussion! Not just you posting an idea and flaming anyone who disagrees.

I also tried to defend your original idea of keeping the character Dragon shaped, as apose to humanoid when I was talking about size issues. I mentioned how you probably wouldnt like the idea. I defended your original idea.

I also later mentioned, after you gave a size to compare to, that a Dragon the size of a non-human hench like those you see in Factions, would be more realistic and do-able.

I was willing to go back on my issues about size after that.

Yet you still keep resorting to using words like "incoherent" and "ignorant" despite the "liking your idea" and trying to defend it.

Has anyone in here actually said your idea was bad?
Have they utterly flamed you for suggesting Dragons?

If so, then yes they deserve agro.

If not, and they liked the idea, but simply offered criticism, then they dont deserve agro.

Your loosing your agruement with these constant insults you throw at everyone.

What kind of responces do you want?

Either we completely disagree with you, and flame your idea and point out problems and you give us grief.

Or we say we like the idea, but point out problems and you still give us grief.

The only options we're left with is to either kiss your hiney and say we love your idea and it should be implemented this second.

Or we dont reply at all, because we're all sick of even trying to have a debate with you and your ego.

I cant really see the kissing Hiney one being used.

At the end of the day, its your choice as to how you responce to critcism about your ideas.

If you want to throw big words around, and derogatory terms and write page long essays pointing out peoples ignorance and stupidy....

...then go ahead. Most of the essays youve wrote as just re-itterating points you made ages ago.

But as I also said before.

Your not stupid, so tell me what you honestly think insults achieves as part of a discussion? Does it fuel the debate and incourage ideas to develop and grow? Does it incourage people to maintain a rational mind and stay on track?

Or does it just incourage people to become angry and aggressive and resentfull?

But again, its your choice. I can't see you changing the way you speak to people. Ive tried to give advice, to help, but I doubt you'l take it.

2 hours later....
Now that was an interesting read...
Kind of an old thread, but interesting nonetheless.

Apparently pretty much anyone who ever responded to this thread is unintelligent, narrwominded, and lacks "foresight", at least according to Kaiser. I don't understand how you can legitimately suggest a Dragon as a playable character. I agree that adding races would be great, and who knows, maybe its something Anet will do so someday. But the day a Dragon is added as a playable character, is the day the game(or any game) goes to hell. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for mixing things up but you gotta start small, add the Dwarves and the Tengu, maybe even Centaur. The Charr and the Mursaat wouldn't really work because they are your enemies. Sure you have enemy factions of Dwarves, Centaur, and Tengu, but you also have good factions of them.

Dragons would be fun too play no doubt, they would just ruin Guild Wars. And don't give me that crap of I don't have any foresight. You think you have any foresight? You suggested a DRAGON! You think that adding a Dragon means you have foresight?? You really think your the first person to have this wonderful, fantastic idea to have Dragon as a playable character in a game?? It's been thought of before.(probably for just about every game out there. At one point or another, someone said, "Wouldn't it be cool if you could be a DRAGON in [Insert ANY game name here]?", you were just the first idiot to actually suggest it in an open forum.). It's just that everyone realized something about them: they would, in fact, ruin any game! (Don't worry, you will come around soon enough.)

Dragons are and always will be end-game bosses or NPC's that give you important revelations, it's just what Dragons are meant to do in games. They are considered to be ancient elusive creatures that only appear when provoked or under certain circumstances(planets aligning, princesses locked in towers, you know). They guard hidden treasures and what-not, and are very wise as they have lived through millenia. They are not meant to be playable. That's whats great about Dragons, EVERYONE wants to play them(you'd be lieing if you said no), but they aren't meant to be played. End of Story.

Bump this baby back up to the top...