hello
recently i was helping a Guildie to go through mission and first came as ranger trapper. finally i had no choise then swiching to my monk, changing my build etc.
my point is: Why is it that spot in the game when it is almost impossible to find a monk? first run we went we had 2 monks (they were both in same guild, not ours) and as soon as we got to the Keep, they both said that if each 1 of us (other 6 people) will not pay them 1k each, to each they will leave, and that mission is impossible to do without a monk. 2 players didnt agree to pay so they LEFT!!! when we all died our team spent 30 min to find 1 monk. we didnt find second monk cuz i got fed up of wating so i swaped to monk.... and we left. oviously during the mission there were a couple of morans spamming HEAL HEAL HEAL, but evry mission has a few of those.....
why is that the only mission where it is so hard find 2 monks? (*which are not guildies, will not pull the s---t described above or will not just leave in the middle? theres as many monks as other characters (in game in general) why do they not play in Thunder head keep? is it the mission itself or general peoples attitude?
Thunder head mission
Maria The Princess
Former Ruling
Because Thunderhead is an undesirable mission to complete.
FACTS (percentages are sort of my opinion, based on facts):
- 90% of people put off doing THK on characters after their first. Because the further characters were 90% of the time just for Skill Unlocks/Farming/etc, so theres no real reason to do THK and the Fire Islands with them straight off.
- To make the problem worse only like 5% or less of people actually stick with Monk as their first character, mainly because Wa/Ra/Ele are all three Classes people know and can Identify with, so they choice them. That, and monks take alot of abuse in certain chokepoints in the game so they are pressured into rolling a better suited character as their first to leanr the game with.
- THK, though being on the same level difficulty wise as any of the other missions, has gained a name that makes it sound like HELL on earth. This is mainly due to it being the chokepoint to get on the Fire Islands, so you meet alot of Retards. 90% of problems with the mission are people aggroing too much (noob leeroys), not being infused (just noob), or forgeting the king cant die (forgetful). So mission-repeaters really dont even touch THK.
All in All, this does make for a lack of monkage (or even decent player-age) in THK.
But That can be taken as a good thing too, since if your in THK, you are at a point where you should start looking for a good guild anyway, so its an oppertunity to meet and get with a guild, that can then help.
FACTS (percentages are sort of my opinion, based on facts):
- 90% of people put off doing THK on characters after their first. Because the further characters were 90% of the time just for Skill Unlocks/Farming/etc, so theres no real reason to do THK and the Fire Islands with them straight off.
- To make the problem worse only like 5% or less of people actually stick with Monk as their first character, mainly because Wa/Ra/Ele are all three Classes people know and can Identify with, so they choice them. That, and monks take alot of abuse in certain chokepoints in the game so they are pressured into rolling a better suited character as their first to leanr the game with.
- THK, though being on the same level difficulty wise as any of the other missions, has gained a name that makes it sound like HELL on earth. This is mainly due to it being the chokepoint to get on the Fire Islands, so you meet alot of Retards. 90% of problems with the mission are people aggroing too much (noob leeroys), not being infused (just noob), or forgeting the king cant die (forgetful). So mission-repeaters really dont even touch THK.
All in All, this does make for a lack of monkage (or even decent player-age) in THK.
But That can be taken as a good thing too, since if your in THK, you are at a point where you should start looking for a good guild anyway, so its an oppertunity to meet and get with a guild, that can then help.
Rathcail
I see two monks in Thunderhead all the time. Standing there with the rest of the henchies.
Maria The Princess
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Originally Posted by Rathcail
I see two monks in Thunderhead all the time. Standing there with the rest of the henchies.
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i got about 100k in my storage, so i cant cair less to pay 2k, but just the fact of doin what they did!!!!
Former Ruling
Henching the mission is completely possible. But not the best choice here.
Try with your first character through to get the feel of PUGS and doing things with them. Also a first timer wont really know all they need too to use henchies in this way.
And Henching is the easiest in this mission with a healing class (an E/Mo or Monk), which defeats the propose of even using henchies, since you ARE the class that everyone is looking for lol.
Try with your first character through to get the feel of PUGS and doing things with them. Also a first timer wont really know all they need too to use henchies in this way.
And Henching is the easiest in this mission with a healing class (an E/Mo or Monk), which defeats the propose of even using henchies, since you ARE the class that everyone is looking for lol.
Maria The Princess
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Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Henching the mission is completely possible. But not the best choice here.
Try with your first character through to get the feel of PUGS and doing things with them. Also a first timer wont really know all they need too to use henchies in this way. And Henching is the easiest in this mission with a healing class (an E/Mo or Monk), which defeats the propose of even using henchies, since you ARE the class that everyone is looking for lol. |
lol
SnoopJeDi
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
the only problem with henching mission, is that at a certain point the team has to split in 2 to patrol both exits.... and henchies dont really understand it
lol |
My tactic is always to camp around Jalis and let the mobs come to us.
Murder In China
The best possible way to beat Thunderhead Keep with only henchies is camping the king. Plain and simple.
Jenosavel
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Originally Posted by SnoopJeDi
Uh, it's really unnecessary to do that. In fact, if you're in a PUG, I say doing that halves your chances of completing the mission sucessfully (from experience. I regularly log on my monk and help groups with that mish).
My tactic is always to camp around Jalis and let the mobs come to us. |
Maria The Princess
as Former Ruling posted (and its right) most people in there are doin it for first time... so getting a PUG is 80% chance... unless its a guild group. band you know how it is.... evry1 doin whatever they want and dont isten.
we end up finishing it, finally with guildies, after about 10 tries with PUGs who either let me alone with the king against Mursaat or just leave half way
we end up finishing it, finally with guildies, after about 10 tries with PUGs who either let me alone with the king against Mursaat or just leave half way
Xpl0iter
THK mission is really not hard, 3 warriors, and rest henchman can do good job too.
having a tank ele at times helps, done it that way my self.
I usualy take my self, 5 other regular people, and 2 henchman, and it works without an y issue, like someone sid before, just camp the king and ur all set to win. but make sure to have 3 warriors with u, or any 3 tanks who can take the abuse while dishing some damage out, 2 of them need to move back and forth between cats and back to jalis to keep a lower number of mobs from entering.
Regards
An Elementalist.
having a tank ele at times helps, done it that way my self.
I usualy take my self, 5 other regular people, and 2 henchman, and it works without an y issue, like someone sid before, just camp the king and ur all set to win. but make sure to have 3 warriors with u, or any 3 tanks who can take the abuse while dishing some damage out, 2 of them need to move back and forth between cats and back to jalis to keep a lower number of mobs from entering.
Regards
An Elementalist.
Ole Man Bourbon
I like the split into two groups and blast-them-as-they-come-in method. Everyone needs to be ready to go to the other side to help in a pinch, but also to return to their posts quickly, and it's a cinch.
noice1
Back on my first character an Elementalist, this was a minor annoyance to complete. I eventually found my way into a decent group that had members who could take orders (and someone who would give them). Last week though on my Warrior, it was Hell. I spent the entire DAY trying to get the mission done. Whether it was a horribly formed group which didn't work together, a bold group with no Monks (basically one necro to do some healing and the rest Warriors, etc), or just groups that fell apart at the end..nothing worked.
So finally, FINALLY I get into a group (already past midnight at this point) and we get to the end and CAMP (never been in a group that did it before) and it worked beautifully (had a MM with us too). Never will I do that mission again! People dropped like crazy on PUGs.
So finally, FINALLY I get into a group (already past midnight at this point) and we get to the end and CAMP (never been in a group that did it before) and it worked beautifully (had a MM with us too). Never will I do that mission again! People dropped like crazy on PUGs.
Maria The Princess
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Originally Posted by noice1
Back on my first character an Elementalist, this was a minor annoyance to complete. I eventually found my way into a decent group that had members who could take orders (and someone who would give them). Last week though on my Warrior, it was Hell. I spent the entire DAY trying to get the mission done. Whether it was a horribly formed group which didn't work together, a bold group with no Monks (basically one necro to do some healing and the rest Warriors, etc), or just groups that fell apart at the end..nothing worked.
So finally, FINALLY I get into a group (already past midnight at this point) and we get to the end and CAMP (never been in a group that did it before) and it worked beautifully (had a MM with us too). Never will I do that mission again! People dropped like crazy on PUGs. |
Kook~NBK~
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the only thing hard about that mission is getting in a good group. The monk shortage is easily overcome by using Alesia & Lena. Sorry to say it, but they often do a better job of it than real people.
And I'll echo the sentiments of most here - it's easiest to do when camping the King. Throw in the "buglight" trick with a stance tank holding the torch, at the beacon platform by the King and it's a snap.
And I'll echo the sentiments of most here - it's easiest to do when camping the King. Throw in the "buglight" trick with a stance tank holding the torch, at the beacon platform by the King and it's a snap.
Maria The Princess
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Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the only thing hard about that mission is getting in a good group. The monk shortage is easily overcome by using Alesia & Lena. Sorry to say it, but they often do a better job of it than real people.
And I'll echo the sentiments of most here - it's easiest to do when camping the King. Throw in the "buglight" trick with a stance tank holding the torch, at the beacon platform by the King and it's a snap. |
Edge Martinez
I think camping the king is a good fallback point, but everyone knows you can trap the top of the bridges. We had problems getting a monk, so we went 4 trapper rangers, 3 Mesmers and a Necro. You never have to leave the tops of the bridges. A ranger and a mesmer man the cats on the weak side and everyone else camps the busy gate. Pets are wonderful because they keep dieing downstairs and create a minion factory. As long as one ranger has predatory season, that's all the healing you need, but it never hurts to have one of the mesmers or necros run a healer secondary with 2 or 3 spot heals. The hardest part is actually getting to the courtyard. There are alot of different ways to do this mission, some listed here, some not, but they've all worked. I think this whole game is playable without monk primaries.
Cherno
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Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon
I like the split into two groups and blast-them-as-they-come-in method. Everyone needs to be ready to go to the other side to help in a pinch, but also to return to their posts quickly, and it's a cinch.
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Having your group split over two areas makes more work for the monk(s) to have to run back and forth. There are a lot of times when both sides get hit at the same time, often times one with a boss. All the while the king is up at the top. One group fails, where are you going to go? Straight up to the king. Keep your group centralized at the top keeps all party members within easy heal range of the monks, as well as keeping the king within range.
Being in the center sets up choke points for your enemy, rather than spreading yourself out thin. If they are bunched up, eles and necros will love you for making a nice bunching for more effective kills.
Works even better if you tank with the torch, but some people don't like that, they feel it is cheating, so whatever.
With or without henchies, this is the best way I have found. The problem is always getting the groups to listen. Most of the time, people who haven't been to challenge areas (SF, UW, FoW, Tombs, etc) don't understand the concept of clean agro control or taking advantage of held items. Because the previous missions never really called for it. It is a good place to teach them.
A lot of times you can find people in other missions doing things again, but this is one that so many people have bad memories of, they don't want to do it again unless necessary. So you don't see a lot of monks. Also, by this time, there aren't any elites that they can't have already gotten without having to go on to the fire islands. Many want to just go on to FoW, UW, SF, etc and they can do that since ascention is done. Fewer and fewer monks are seen from Dragon's Lair on.
Maria The Princess
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Originally Posted by Cherno
A lot of times you can find people in other missions doing things again, but this is one that so many people have bad memories of, they don't want to do it again unless necessary. So you don't see a lot of monks. Also, by this time, there aren't any elites that they can't have already gotten without having to go on to the fire islands. Many want to just go on to FoW, UW, SF, etc and they can do that since ascention is done. Fewer and fewer monks are seen from Dragon's Lair on.
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and one more thing, im sorry for those who dont have a helpful and active guild...
Ranger Rog
There are quite a few missions I will go back and replay with my Monk just for fun, but THK isnt one of them. By the time I got my monk to THK I was pretty much just playing with henchies and guildies due to the frustration of playing in pugs on earlier missions. As it was my second character through the game, I knew what to expect so I just henched it and completed it first time rather than face the pain of pugs. It has been said before that THK is a noob filter (hate that word) for the fire island missions, I'm guessing that most monks just dont want to share in the pain and frustration of all those noobs being filtered when they can just do it easily on thier own.
I do go back and help guildies through it, just me and 1 other plus henchies works well with a near 100% success rate.
I do go back and help guildies through it, just me and 1 other plus henchies works well with a near 100% success rate.
Murder In China
There are the few noobs that trickle into the Fire Islands though.
Amadei
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
or being a monk there, you gety spams at you: HEAL HEAL HEAL or HEAL KING
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Wow. That felt good to get out.
(And when I'm on my necro and I tell the monks to leave combat ressing to me because I can Rebirth and get my energy back up fast with SR and OoB, DON'T FRICKING REBIRTH IN THE MIDDLE OF BATTLE.)
Havelock
This sounds too familiar 
. I just tried to get a group together yesterday and thought I'd help some real people. But whenever I mentioned camping at King Jalis or taking Mhenlo and Lina someone left the group.
I finally henched that mission alone again as I did with most of my other chars. That way you know what you get: beat the mission first try.
The only thing that really bothers me about this mission is the time it takes in the end with Mursaat and White Mantle pouring in slowly over quite some time.
. I just tried to get a group together yesterday and thought I'd help some real people. But whenever I mentioned camping at King Jalis or taking Mhenlo and Lina someone left the group. I finally henched that mission alone again as I did with most of my other chars. That way you know what you get: beat the mission first try.
The only thing that really bothers me about this mission is the time it takes in the end with Mursaat and White Mantle pouring in slowly over quite some time.
Silent Kitty
My first Character is a Monk, and I'm still playing that one, because It's my favourite.
Many monks get fed up because they always get the blame when everybody dies. Nobody blames the party leader who invited those low lvl players who took 90% of my healing energy. I know, I know, you probably have a lvl 10 who has played this game already twice, but I am talking from experience, not prejudice.
I mostly ignore those parties who desperately ask for a monk. I know from experience that they are probably not the best players in the game, and a healer is a good scapegoat when things get sour.
Many monks get fed up because they always get the blame when everybody dies. Nobody blames the party leader who invited those low lvl players who took 90% of my healing energy. I know, I know, you probably have a lvl 10 who has played this game already twice, but I am talking from experience, not prejudice.
I mostly ignore those parties who desperately ask for a monk. I know from experience that they are probably not the best players in the game, and a healer is a good scapegoat when things get sour.
Zui
Could be that most people who roll a monk and stick with it are on their 2 or higher charactar, and realise that henchmen > PUGs for thunderhead.
Cherno
The only reason I like to have at least one human monk in the party is to be able to target the king. Henchmen have a tendency to never heal allies, only party members. Sometimes Jalis can go off on his own and leeroy the mursaat and it really helps to have at least one human monk. That's why a lot of people think that you MUST have a monk in order to do the mission.
maffa
I can see peoples frustration with this mission but personnally I love it.
I Completed it at the first attempt with my second charater E/R and it was a breeze, oh, by the way we had henchy monks. All you need is a trapper at each gate just spamming traps galore and a fighter to hold them there, then use a meteor storm type skill to send anything that did get through back through the gate (they turn and run).
I was amazed at how easily and quickly we did it. Nobody died, everybody stood thier ground and the henchies did thier job with no probs. One bloke left at the start cos we wouldnt camp at the king, and we still did it easily - his loss.
Its the same old, same old - People listen to instructions and you have a much greater chance of success.
I Completed it at the first attempt with my second charater E/R and it was a breeze, oh, by the way we had henchy monks. All you need is a trapper at each gate just spamming traps galore and a fighter to hold them there, then use a meteor storm type skill to send anything that did get through back through the gate (they turn and run).
I was amazed at how easily and quickly we did it. Nobody died, everybody stood thier ground and the henchies did thier job with no probs. One bloke left at the start cos we wouldnt camp at the king, and we still did it easily - his loss.
Its the same old, same old - People listen to instructions and you have a much greater chance of success.
nomed
The best way is to have 2 groups. 1 Tank, 1 Ele, 1 Monk each and 1 ranged attacker of your choice to fire the catapults and shoot down on the enemies when they try to enter the fort.
Did this with my clan yesterday and it almost gets boring. The problem for PUGs is that this needs some kind of tactical thinking and intelligence and that's what many people lack - in this mission it shows.
I like this mission too, because it's different than all the other missions with one attacking and one defending part.
Did this with my clan yesterday and it almost gets boring. The problem for PUGs is that this needs some kind of tactical thinking and intelligence and that's what many people lack - in this mission it shows.
I like this mission too, because it's different than all the other missions with one attacking and one defending part.
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
PUGs are not worth my time
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Maria The Princess
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
My first Character is a Monk, and I'm still playing that one, because It's my favourite.
Many monks get fed up because they always get the blame when everybody dies. Nobody blames the party leader who invited those low lvl players who took 90% of my healing energy. I know, I know, you probably have a lvl 10 who has played this game already twice, but I am talking from experience, not prejudice. I mostly ignore those parties who desperately ask for a monk. I know from experience that they are probably not the best players in the game, and a healer is a good scapegoat when things get sour. |
i play this game for fun and not to get my mood down or getting pissed off, PUGs are not worth my time
Xenophon Ualtar
Now I am not sure why people insist on having 2 monks. I have done THK before when I was the only monk. I have also done it with a friend who was monking and we about half henchies.
The only time that THK is hard is if you are doing it with a PUG. That is why it is imperative to get into a guild or find some people to put in your friends list that will help you out.
The only time that THK is hard is if you are doing it with a PUG. That is why it is imperative to get into a guild or find some people to put in your friends list that will help you out.
quickmonty
Dunderhead Keep ....otherwise know as the noob filter.
I have done this mission so many times in so many configurations helping guildies. One time our primary healer (monk) got disconnected after we got to the keep. We finished without a primary healer.
As has been stated, the reason this mission is hard with pugs is that a lot of people have no idea how to work as a team, and this is one mission that requires teamwork.
I have done this mission so many times in so many configurations helping guildies. One time our primary healer (monk) got disconnected after we got to the keep. We finished without a primary healer.
As has been stated, the reason this mission is hard with pugs is that a lot of people have no idea how to work as a team, and this is one mission that requires teamwork.
felinette
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Originally Posted by Xenophon Ualtar
The only time that THK is hard is if you are doing it with a PUG.
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felinette
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
Many monks get fed up because they always get the blame when everybody dies. Nobody blames the party leader who invited those low lvl players who took 90% of my healing energy. I know, I know, you probably have a lvl 10 who has played this game already twice, but I am talking from experience, not prejudice.
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lennymon
bingbingbing winner 
I had made and deleted about 4 monks and my first one that I kept was my 3rd toon to finish the game. Now I absolutely love it (when I'm not too tired) for the challenge. I also love to do THK, but with lots of good strats posted already I'll forgo that.
I had made and deleted about 4 monks and my first one that I kept was my 3rd toon to finish the game. Now I absolutely love it (when I'm not too tired) for the challenge. I also love to do THK, but with lots of good strats posted already I'll forgo that.
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Originally Posted by Zui
Could be that most people who roll a monk and stick with it are on their 2 or higher charactar, and realise that henchmen > PUGs for thunderhead.
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Xenophon Ualtar
I absolutly will not PUG with my monk. I have tried before in the early SHiverpeak quests and the rewards are not worth the stress and hassle. In any difficult mission people will die. Yelling at the monk doesn't help the situation. I think that there are many people who feel the way that I do. That is why Monks are hard to find in THK and other advance areas.
Dalnor Ironhelm
My first character is a warrior, did THK numerous times successfully and unsuccessfully with him. My third character is a monk and is not to THK yet but have done all missions with pugs as my guild only has two members. I have found that many people do blame the monk for deaths and failures but many also appreciate the monk and treat him as another valuable player, thanking for heals, etc. I have enjoyed all my characters as they all offer different rewards and challenges. If I run across a Noob who is unfair or mean or uncouth I just leave the computer after finishing the mission and go mow the lawn or something. Playing GW is supposed to be fun anyway right, that's why it is a GAME..........
noice1
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Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon
I like the split into two groups and blast-them-as-they-come-in method. Everyone needs to be ready to go to the other side to help in a pinch, but also to return to their posts quickly, and it's a cinch.
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pin
I’m quite surprised at a lot of the posts here. I play heal monk at THK for fun quite a bit and have had my share of bad groups. But the majority of PUGs I have been with were very good. I rarely have been yelled at if someone dies and if that happens I just blow it off and continue with the mission.
The split group strategy is a little harder to do because there is no monk back up. It really depends more on the fighters killing targets quickly and getting help from people covering the east gate when the jade or mursaat boss shows up. The only problem with staying with the king is that he has a tendency to run off his platform and start fighting mursaat. If you don’t watch him the little guy dies easily.
The split group strategy is a little harder to do because there is no monk back up. It really depends more on the fighters killing targets quickly and getting help from people covering the east gate when the jade or mursaat boss shows up. The only problem with staying with the king is that he has a tendency to run off his platform and start fighting mursaat. If you don’t watch him the little guy dies easily.
lennymon
I'll monk there for fun too. but by thk most folks wont be yelling at the monk when they die... they know whats good for em 
thk I actually bring restore life or plain Res on my monk too.
thk I actually bring restore life or plain Res on my monk too.
Str0b0
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
the only problem with henching mission, is that at a certain point the team has to split in 2 to patrol both exits.... and henchies dont really understand it
lol |