A Simple End to Botting

simply remove the -health from major and superior runes. people will have to adjust their attribute numbers but then again they have to readjust to a skill balance about once a month anyway. nerf 55ing by empowering everyone instead of nerfing the eles...

That would totally destroy the concept of runes, since everyone will then use a superior for every possible attribute.

As fallot said ..... everyone would be using as many superior runes as possible.

There are many solo farming builds besides the 55. Just a matter of switching to something else.

That would totally unbalance the game - AND it would not end bots. 55 is just one build. Basically - the only way to end bots would to be have items bind on aquire and be customized to the character that found them. This of course would be a terrible idea because then you could not pass items to other characters, friends, sell to players etc. It would kill the player based economy.

Thus there is no way to elimate bots. They can sort of be contained , but that is about it.

how would it unbalance the game, it isnt as tho access to superior runes is denied to anyone? as far as everyone wanting superior runes... i thought superior meant that it was, well, superior... why shouldnt everyone want superior runes? i recently sold a SUPERIOR soul reaping to the trader for 25 gold... go superiors! superiors would then become something to save up for, no big deal. majors would have a purpose in this game since they would them become cost efficient stat boosts until you could afford something better. as far as other builds, i'm sure there are. however none of these builds will ever approach the efficiency of the 55s. go to droks international and watch the flow of 55 monk bots out of the gates. trolls can be soloed with warriors, and necros and lord knows what else, but it isnt being done by the bots for the most part. dont most skills have a break point in efficiency? can anyone point out HOW this would cause an imbalance, other that just saying it would?

It would not be unbalanced at all, there would just no longer be a point to runes. Any such changes will apply equally to PvP and PvE, but the argument for cost doesnt apply when creating a PvP character.

Having three different types of runes, each with their own drawbacks and advantages, adds an element of depth to the game. Guild Wars is a game of choices, its what keeps it interesting. With this change, there is no real choice other than to use superiors except the aforementioned cost argument.

Why even have runes at all then if there are no drawbacks to their use ? Just remove them from the game and you have your answer to 55 monks. This is basically what you are advocating and IMO it would take an excellent mechanic away from the game.

Superior runes have a pentaly attached to them. They can give a great bonus, but at a price. You have to trade off health - if that wasn't there everyone would have four - attribute ones - and +3 to every stat - this would be the unbalancign part. It would up the power of everyone with money at no tactical price. While it isn't substancial - at the max level, try thinking of lower levels - suddenly a nuke could have high damage blasts from several element types and greater energy. The whole system is built around a set number of attribute points. Going over that limit is possible but at a cost to a player. Using a superior to move something from 7 to 10 gives you a lot of points to allocate elsewhere - multiply that by four.

I see at the end you get to your real gripe - this isn't about bots is it? Its about that you found a Sup Rune and it didn't sell for much isn't it?

Superior = +3 bonus (with a health penalty), not that it should sell for a lot to the trader. Certain superiors are things to save up for (or find?). There will always be items more in demand than others.

As many have already mentioned, this doesn't stop bots (since they don't have to be monks, neccessarily) and it ruins the... runes. Ruins the runes... Hmm...

Anyway, it is funny however that the -health, which is supposed to be a penalty, ends up being a benefit in certain builds. If you think removing the health penalty really is the solution, I'd say you really have to replace it with another kind of penalty. An energy or armor penalty, say.

But as has been said before, it wouldn't actually stop bots.

That aside, if you think simply because 55 monks would be gone, that there would be no way to bot, you're sorely mistaken.

The only way to destroy botting is to make farming a more challenging task that requires human ingenuity, and reducing the ability for people to do things solo, by giving monsters a wider array of skills and abilities.

For any given solo build, there're numerous skills available in the game to give to monsters in order to counter it.

Example;
55 Monk - Mass enchant removal (Well of the Profane bomb for Spell Breaker monks, Rend/Lingering Curse for Shield of Judgment), Symbiosis/Fertile Season, perfect interrupts (the kind only a monster can pull off on even 1/4th second cast spells ), Life Steals, massive degen to accompany base damage, mass small-packet damage (Ignite/Kindle Arrows + Dual Shot spike from multiple archers), Wild Blow to strip defensive stances, well-timed or chained Blackouts, and a mesmer could always annoy you with Signets I suppose, vs Spell Breaker (Partial sarcasm, partially true; Not many non-spells available to mesmers). Snaring, combined with multiple AoE's like Maelstrom or Meteor Shower for shutdown, Gale pinning, Shock, wards, whatever x_x

Maybe some professions of monsters can't combat a specific build entirely, but there's normally more than 1 monster per group, and ideally, more than 1 profession.

The problem is that monsters usually DON'T have a balanced group, using a variety of skills. Often, they don't even have a source of healing, including from themselves. And part of that problem is that their AI isn't very good.
Hence why Stefan, I think, whichever the hench is with Wild Blow simply spams it, removing all of his adrenaline. And I'd imagine monsters have the same issue with using certain skills tactically.

I digress.

I don't support this change, because the penalties were added to runes for a reason, so that people who take them have a drawback for their power-up, and so that people who don't have them, aren't entirely gimped. And while Major Runes need rebalancing to see any use beyond when people can't afford to get Superior (And being a wasted step in unlocking all runes with faction), that has little to nothing to do with this topic.

What?

Did anyone else notice ..... is this just another "nerf 55" thread? Do we want to go there again?

That last phrase of the OP makes me think they're pissed about the AoE nerf and they had a smite nuker. They most likely cant afford to run a 55 and want to see it killed like everyone else.

You don't have to totaly remove Health penalties you could just Make Major RUNEs -25 and SUP RUNES -50. In this way yor adding 125 health to all 55rs.

and yes please nerf the 55s, Im sick of going to TOA and all I see is 55 looking for SS/SV. It would be nice to see UW clearing teams again. I don't care if we have favor anymore because no one wants to form 8 man parties for UW like in the early days.

/Not signed

Just another 'nerf' 55's!

Too bad you sold your Sup Rune to the Merchant - not the Trader. The Rune Trader will give you a better rate for a Superior Soul Reaping!

How about this: just remove the penalty stack as well as the beifit stack

How about just nerfing you, that sounds good. lol. Those MM necros and SS necros have just got to go too, get rid of them I say! Sick of fighting my way through 30 minions just to get to the MM that created them. And that SS, and corpse bombs? Good grief, too powerful, that's gotta go too, lol. Get rid of those silly rangers too, those spirits and animals are just too confusing. Get rid of those warriors too, stupid cyclone axe owns me everytime they use it. Might as well get rid of everyone, because they all own me when I'm trying to play, or have more gold than me by the way they play. Nerf nerf nerf!

Seriously though, if you wanted to take botting out of the game, you'd probably have to get rid of the henchmen too. 55 builds don't really matter as far as bots are concerned. I wish people would stop crying to nerf 55 builds.

Just remove the monk class from the game, its not like anyone will miss it..

so sick of nerf 55 threads and i dont even have a monk to 55 with!
Everyone wants the bots stopped but doesnt want a balance issue, there is only one way to stop the bots. If you remove the ability to make money from virtual gold and items then you WILL stop the bots. Take away the trade button, yes its that simple. You could still transfere gold and items at storage between your own characters, but not with anyone else. High price economy crumbles, no more 100K +ecto BS prices, only way to buy or sell anything is a merchant. No skill unbalance, no nerfing of areas, simple and easy.

I don't like that at all. What if I want to give somthing to someone, or just have a friend help me transfer stuff between my two accounts?

I suppose that we could leave town and one just drop stuff on the ground while the other picked it up, but then that could be used instead of the same trade button, with more of a chance for scams and rip-offs.

Neither do I. I really have no problem with the way things are now, I am not affected by scammers, farming (humans or bots) doesn't bother me, and I have yet to find any weapon or armor that is being sold for more than 10K that cannot be easily duplicated with a collector item and some mods that can be found instead of bought for outrageous prices.
The idea was just thrown out there for the sake of argument and to be honest, I love the replies that it gets from people that are so worried about their large fortunes and uber leet fellblades.
We could go even farther with the idea. Make it so that nothing can be dropped from inventory, sell it , put it in storage, or put it in the trash can.
And just to add some more fuel here make drops only available to the person it dropped for, not customized, just no 2 minute timer on it, if you dont pick it up noone else can, they cant even see it. That would stop the problem of drop stealing by not rezing people. They still might not res you , but at least they wont get the drop. Got some other ideas too but gotta save some for later!

The 55s would then just change to any other class. Because they would all easily be able to solo any area.

considering no mission in GW can't take more then 3hours (even FOW takes less time).... why not automaticly boot a character out ofthe server game evry 3 hours?....


hahahaha

i'm joking!!!!!!

i think the only way to stop Bots is to throw in a few mesmers and necros here and there... randomly spaming, so a real playerwith a 55hp will know how to avoid them or beatthem, but a stupid bot will get stuk every time because the Botter will not be able to predict where the mesmer or necro will be, so no SB in the world can help... cuz its random. i mea, leavethehydras and ettins and stuff... but throw in a necro that spaws in diffrent locationsevery time

Removing the -hp wouldn't solve anything. Instead of 55hp's going out to kill trolls you'll have w/mo's. Although I believe there does need to be a change when it comes to the runes. -0hp for minors, -50 for majors and -75 for superiors? Shouldn't the -hp be equally segmented since the bonus to the attribute is? So -25 for minors, -50 for majors and -75 for superiors. That way the vigor runes can replace the amount taken away. +25 for minor, +50 for major and +75 for superior. Also if two of the same runes don't have their bonuses stacked why should the penelty?

The bot issue has been discussed before. Best suggestion I've heard someone say is randomization of the enemies in terms of spawn location, classes the groups are made up of and skills they use individually. Bots require advanced knowledge of where they are, what classes they are and the skills they use. Take that advanced knowledge away and the program wouldn't be able to compensate for the constant change.

There isnt going to be a way to stop bots, at least not yet the best thing i can tell you is to just play the game and stop worrying about them its part of many games the economy adjusts and all you need to do is adjust with it so instead of making huge comments on how to stop them why dont you just play the game, really wtf do they ever do to you? Do they sit there and call you a newb all day? No they dont, imo they are cooler then regular people cause they never give you lip : ) but seriously just play the game...

lol Don't get me started. All I will say is do a search and read some threads.

I will say one thing.

http://www.guildwars.com/press/inter...e-friday61.php
Taken from the article.

That's WTF they did to me and many more.

what do you mean by benifit stack because if you have 2 of the same rune it doesnt stack do you mean you can only gain benifit from one rune at a time that hurts other classes that use 1 sup and sum minors bcuz then they dont get the +1 bonuses from the other runes

So, Sharparrow, would you say that the 55 build itself is effecting you, or is it the bots that farm so they can sell large sums of gold for real life money affecting you?

Not the build but rather repetitive farming. Bot or not it doesn't matter. The selling gold on ebay doesn't have this effect since it is only changing the money from one person to another. It would be like me giving you 100k from my charater to yours in game. The problem Anet has with stuff being sold on ebay is that the people doing it are illegally selling anet owned property. It's the repetitive farming that generates the gold in the first place that causes the problem. Bots and sweatshop farmers making up more than 3/4 of all the repetitive farming in the game the randomization would (I believe) not only eliminate the bots but may even make it impossible for the sweatshop farmers since any solo farm build requires advance knowledge of the enemies before entering the combat area.

See, the reason I ask is because I farm quite a bit with my 55 build, and I just don't understand why you think that's driving up prices on traded items. When I farm, I usually tend to get a bunch of useless junk, that all gets sold to the merchant mostly. After I accumulate enough wealth that I want to go buy something, it's usually 15k armor. I don't transfer any funds to anybody in game, it all goes to my storage for later use. Once I do have a use for it, I don't buy really expensive weapons from other players or give it to other players period, it's for my own uses. So, if what I'm doing is driving up the prices on anything, it sure isn't the raven staves or troll tusks I get for example, so what is it really doing? Besides being given to the merchants and traders that are NPC's for exchange of goods or armor.

Ok...so with your idea you may be able to stop 55's from doing the uw solo or fow...but as I have already mentioned in several threads of this nature...you still have another problem..the little diddy known as the death penalty. Unless Anet removes the DP you aren't going to stop 55'ers..see it'll work like this ...I have my superior runes which (lets say the 2 runes that are the same no longer stack..and let's say you take away my cesta..and also that my superiors only have a -50 instead of the current -75) There are countless other -health items out there...so I use one of those..now AGAIN..so long as I AM NOT doing uw or fow..I run to the first mob and leeeeeroy my bad self..as many times as I need to. Yes, this would make it slower..but it doesn't stop me from doing it. I don't know the exact number I could hit with a 60% DP and no negative from superior runes (if that happened to be the case)..but I'm sure my fellow monks and I could figure something out.

You get junk thanks to updates made buy anet on the issue. It was their solution to make it not worth the time to farm but just ruined it for everyone. You say you use your 55hp to farm, well I used mine to do the same when I had it. But the question is when you go on the game do you spend 90% of your time farming or doing quests and missions? I did such little farming when I was on that I got rid of the 55hp build and made it into a normal monk. I even deleted my w/mo that I used sometime to make a more interesting to play w/e that I am currently playing through every mission and quest in the game.
You ask that as if it was me that said it happens. It was anet themselves (who would know the mechanics of the game better than anyone here) who said it. Mind you they said this before the updates that ruined the drop rates and the updates have worked quited a bit. Prices have dropped considerably since the updates but they've ruined for everyone not just the repetitive farmers. I believe the randomization would have been much more effective and the drop rates could be the way they used to.

I'm not complaining that I get junk, in fact, I would like more inventory space to hold more junk to sell. I've completed all the missions and quests across a total of 5 characters, 2 characters I deleted. One after it got ascended, and another at level 12 when I didn't like the playability of it. I have maybe a couple of titan quests or less on each of my current characters left to do. I think it's worth the time to still get junk and sell it to the merchant if I need gold.

Well, the second part of what you said was that it wasn't you that made it up, but earlier you quoted it and said "That's WTF they did to me and many more". So, I took that along with how it was affecting you. Besides, what was quoted from there can be taken several different ways. Are they talking about accumulating wealth ten times as fast by doing a particular thing? Or maybe whipping out their credit cards and purchasing gold in mass quantities? It's a very foggy sort of quote on how wealth is obtained at a rate ten times faster than the average player. So, besides the quote being in the situation, the original question still remains.

I'm not going to read this topic, but I will go outright here and say this: there couldn't be anything less simple than that, barring a few exceptions.

There is no way to stop botting~~~

Botting exists in every MMORPG~~~

*dances about*

Removing the -75 and -50 would remove the tactical nuances of runes altogether.

The best thing that Anet can do is create an environment where pro-bot farmers are NOT profitable. Ie: Not cost efficient and removing the incentive to bot.

When you sign up to certain websites, they tell you to type in an alphanumeric combination that is designed to stop scripts from automatically signing up, because it takes a human eye to figure out the text (hell sometimes you cant even figure out what it says!).

ANYWAYS....they should put that in guild wars. If your player begins to display characteristics of a bot ie: repetitive actions over and over for many hours and not logging off, it brings up a popup asking you to type in the text. It happens very quickly, and isnt on a timed interval, but happens kind of randomly.

If you fail, it disconnects you.

XD

Sounds a little extreme...but tahts the best i can come up with. XD A pro-bot farmer would have to be extremely watchful of the various bots he is running.

That's the best idea I've heard so far. I like it.

Ah yes, I've heard that before. I've done every mission, bonus and quest and all I have left is farming. That's what the repeatalbe areas are for. Tombs, FoW and UW all are repeatable areas. Tombs being the most rewarding since you have a very good chance at getting a green item. Though most aren't worth anything some still are and if 20 or 30k is considered not worth anything to you then you spend way too much time farming.

I've done my fair share of farming and I've done almost every mission, bonus and quest. My avatar is my character that I used to play the game all the way through without being run, did every mission, bonus and quest before advancing furtherin the game and followed the storyline. I got 15k armor and a mursaat rare max hornbow all dyed black. I had all sup runes on but it didn't leave me with many hp so I changed that to two superior and three minor (one superior marksmanship and one superior vigor). All of which was only made possible because of getting lucky in tombs.

I'm doing it again with my W/E and I don't find it boring at all. Yeah sure it's repetitive but using the whole new class makes for a whole different way to play. With 6 classes you can get 30 combinations (only because the primaries offer something unique) which means 30 different ways you can play through the game. That number goes up when you include the different builds within each class combination. As repetitive as it is it's still not as repetitive as killing the same enemies over and over geting the same loot over and over and for rewarding, it all depends on what you consider rewarding.
They did this already. Notice that the drops are not nearly what they used to be.

Yes this would stop the bots although getting booted from the game may be a bit extreme. Put back into town would be better. This won't stop the sweatshop farmers which are just as bad.
Nothing foggy about it. Of course they are talking about repetitive farming. Not buying it online. Only the repetitive farming generates the gold all the ebay gold buying does is send the money from one character to another. Like paying for a run. It doesn't generate new wealth and it doesn't destroy it either. The money simply goes from one person to another. So they are talking about going out into a combat area and bringing in the ten times amount of money which can only be done through repetitive farming of any kind.

20k is actually a lot to me, because I only had about 6k when I ascended my first character. What if one gets bored of the repeatable areas? I don't enjoy green farming because I have to depend on others to give me the 20-30k you're talking about. I don't enjoy Tombs anymore either, I did at first, but it just got old. Any other ideas left for me to do? I would gladly pick up and abandon my goals at getting 15k armor for all my characters if there was something else to do in the meantime.


Ah, ok, that's what I was looking for. So, you support buying gold over the internet, much "like paying for a run". But, when it comes to people who farm that gold in order to sell it to you, that's where you're in disagreement, and anyone who farms to support their wants in the game. And, it is a very unclear quote taken from somewhere, because they are not saying by excessive farming directly. The only person saying that is yourself really. So, what I would say is that the people that are actually driving up the prices, are the ones that repeatitively buy online gold.

Anyway, I'm done talking, you've answered what I needed to know. Plus, I don't want to hijack this thread any further.

I think PvP characters should instantly be able to PvE, and start off with 400 skill points.

Got bored of the repeatable areas? And yet you don't get bored of killing the same enemies over and over. You don't enjoy green farming because you depend on others? Last I checked this is an MMORPG or a CORPG as it seems it's actually called. Either M for multiplayer or C for cooperative it still means more than one person playing together. Tombs has henchies so you don't need to team up in a full group of people. What anet should supply are ascended henchies for the UW and FoW as well.
Nice speculating. Not once have I mentioned that I support buying or selling gold over the internet. The gold that is sold over the internet is done illegally. People without the permission of anet are selling anet property (gold and/or rare items) for real money. The ebay stuff also has an affect on the economy too. Also speak for yourself and only yourself.

I notice that the link isn't working so I'll see about getting working.

Here is a more informative quote.

I really can't get any more clear. They are talking about repetitive farming. They mentioned 3 ways; bots, sweatshop farmers and the first way being any way else.

Ok... Worthless thread but here I go...

1. Bots can not be stopped. The best you can hope to do is make it very hard to code a bot, or code bots to work in teams, maybe 3 instead of 1...

2. Many farming operations don't use bots. They use people from countries like Indonesia, where the wage is extremely low.

3. By suggesting that the health penalty be removed from Major and Superior runes, you will not be stopping any farming. There are ways to solo monk without using 5 -hp superior runes and the -50 hp grim cesta... Warrior/X can solo many many places in the game. Monks can again solo many places without being 55 monks.. Every class has many locations where they can farm, and a person could easily farm there, in most cases even a poorly coded bot.

4. By removing the health penalty on Major and Superior runes, you'll effectively unbalance PvP, and PvE. People could use even more multistatted builds effectively. You'd completely change the entire game, and the builds that are currently effective. To go along with this, the balance of the skills would also be drasticaly altered due to everyone having +3 attribute points for all their primary attribute spells(save warrior and ele, where you'd miss out on superior vigor//superior absorb if you did so). Basicaly you'd totaly alter the entire game, for what? All you would be doing is taking the tactical consideration of what runes to use out of the game, and making it EASIER for other farming builds to be successful.

On a side note, I personaly think this ENTIRE thread was prompted because you didn't know that the "Merchant" and "Rune Trader" pay different prices for runes, and therefore sold your superior rune to the merhcant by mistake, and were upset that you didn't get alot of money for it.