Sundering 20/20 - is Sundering finally a good mod?
Cottage Pie
I'd happily put that on my sword...Still probably more useful mods 
at least sundering isn't completely, utterly worthless anymore.
Evilsod
Aslong as all of my customised green items remain at 10/10, Sundering is still as useless as it ever was. I really do like the look of my req 8 Chaos Axe with the shitty 10/10 Sundering on it too, i think that thing just dropped a 0 off the end of its value.
Chris1986
Definitely not a worthless mod anymore, however as far as my primary mods for my Warrior, I'd still choose Furious over Sundering. (Come on ANet, I want 20% Furious )
As far as my Ranger, I wouldn't mind slapping a 20/20 on one of my bows.
As far as my Ranger, I wouldn't mind slapping a 20/20 on one of my bows.
Cottage Pie
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Originally Posted by Chris1986
Definitely not a worthless mod anymore, however as far as my primary mods for my Warrior, I'd still choose Furious over Sundering. (Come on ANet, I want 20% Furious
As far as my Ranger, I wouldn't mind slapping a 20/20 on one of my bows. |
20/20 is gonna be great for a spike...I always used vamp when spiking, that might change if I ever rspike again lol.
Chris1986
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Originally Posted by Cottage Pie
20% furious? *drools*
20/20 is gonna be great for a spike...I always used vamp when spiking, that might change if I ever rspike again lol. |
lolSeriously though, I hope ANet takes a look at Furious and gives it atleast somewhat of a facelift. I'd even be happy with 15%.
makosi
I get the feeling Anet don't like monks. The warriors just got a boost in dmg from anet and now they can penetrate armour twice as much, twice as often. Furthermore Contemplation Of Purity was given a nasty recharge time.
Warrior
Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35.
Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds.
Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7.
Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds
Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5
Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills.
Monk
Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds.
Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies.
Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions.
Warrior
Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35.
Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds.
Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7.
Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds
Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5
Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills.
Monk
Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds.
Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies.
Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions.
Chris1986
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Originally Posted by makosi
I get the feeling Anet don't like monks. The warriors just got a boost in dmg from anet and now they can penetrate armour twice as much, twice as often. Furthermore Contemplation Of Purity was given a nasty recharge time.
Warrior Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35. Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds. Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7. Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5 Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills. Monk Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds. Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies. Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions. |
Also, If Anet didn't like Monks, 55'ing would've been a thing of the past loonng ago.
Lynnrose
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Originally Posted by makosi
I get the feeling Anet don't like monks. The warriors just got a boost in dmg from anet and now they can penetrate armour twice as much, twice as often. Furthermore Contemplation Of Purity was given a nasty recharge time.
Warrior Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35. Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds. Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7. Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5 Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills. Monk Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds. Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds. Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies. Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions. |
For PvP, SoJ (outside of gimmicky SoJ spike) and PaH are trash. Unyielding was perhaps useful when exploiting the (now fixed) bug but was otherwise not worth carrying. The change to Draw Conditions is actually a benefit for monks, who were apparently enduring longer conditions than they should have.
*The vamp-to-sundering converts will have to outweigh those who previously ignored the math and used 10/10 sundering (with the latter group having its poor judgment punished less now).
twicky_kid
Here is a comparesion of sundering and vamp.
1. Sundering only triggers when you use a skill and does not stack with any armor penetration skills like penetrating shot or blow.
2. The armor penetration is only calculated on the weapons base dmg. Attack skills +dmg is considered armor ignoring dmg and is not altered by armor penetration.
3. Taking a sword for example 20% armor penetration on a 60AL target is a 12 armor reduction. That only gives you a 5-12 more dmg. This dmg will only kick in when you use a skill 1/5th of the time. This dmg is also subject to protection skills and reduction.
So the vamps consistant 5 life steal that bypasses all protection and dmg reduction is still a better option.
On a hammer is the only time you will see a significant difference with sundering mods because the weapons base dmg is high.
1. Sundering only triggers when you use a skill and does not stack with any armor penetration skills like penetrating shot or blow.
2. The armor penetration is only calculated on the weapons base dmg. Attack skills +dmg is considered armor ignoring dmg and is not altered by armor penetration.
3. Taking a sword for example 20% armor penetration on a 60AL target is a 12 armor reduction. That only gives you a 5-12 more dmg. This dmg will only kick in when you use a skill 1/5th of the time. This dmg is also subject to protection skills and reduction.
So the vamps consistant 5 life steal that bypasses all protection and dmg reduction is still a better option.
On a hammer is the only time you will see a significant difference with sundering mods because the weapons base dmg is high.
Cottage Pie
ah, cheers twicky, i've not played for a while so my knowledge got pushed out of my pea-brain, points 1 & 2...yeah sundering is useless then, I had it in my head i'd be getting AP on my attack skills/Penetrating blow stackage, etc :P 
oops.
oops.
Rhuobhe
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
1. Sundering only triggers when you use a skill
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twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Rhuobhe
I'm not defending sundering, but I do believe you made a false statement there.
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The biggest benifit of sundering is the chance of criticals. Since the chance of criticals is much higher when you use a skill + the sundering it can do some major dmg.
Falrow
When monks are too powerfull, pvp becomes boring because no one can kill.
It's better that monks are just stop gaps, and have no chance of holding a whole team up themselfs.
It's better that monks are just stop gaps, and have no chance of holding a whole team up themselfs.
Maxiemonster
Monk needs to be easily killed in order to make it fair, and no matter how badly ANet "nerfs" Monks, they're never going to be used less then they are now, Monks are crucial in every team, and it's never going to change.
And about the 55Hp Monk. That's something different. That's PvE, and all updates to Monks of this update barely effect PvE.
And about the 55Hp Monk. That's something different. That's PvE, and all updates to Monks of this update barely effect PvE.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Falrow
When monks are too powerfull, pvp becomes boring because no one can kill.
It's better that monks are just stop gaps, and have no chance of holding a whole team up themselfs. |
I think the they lowered a monks affectiveness to speed up games. Most battles to go to VoD between good guilds.
But anyways back to the sundering topic this thread is suppose to be about.
Corinthian
Who doesn't hate fragile figures in paper armor hanging way out of the battle and continously healing the already-hard-to-kill warrior?
20/20 is a nice buff, but hardly anything that shifts the balance. I would use it on hammers and bows if I wouldn't have any use for the other upgrades. It would be much more useful if it triggered on normal blows as well.
20/20 is a nice buff, but hardly anything that shifts the balance. I would use it on hammers and bows if I wouldn't have any use for the other upgrades. It would be much more useful if it triggered on normal blows as well.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Corinthian
It would be much more useful if it triggered on normal blows as well.
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Katari
Where are you pulling this info from? It has been my understanding that sundering:
1. Sundering can trigger on any hit, and effects only the base damage.
2. Crits effects only base damage, skills do not effect it's chance of triggering.
3. The situations where sundering is a remotly good mod are nearly non-existant.
The AP from Strength only triggers on skill hits, perhaps that is what you are confusing it with. However, the str bonus triggers on every skill hit. A sundering mod that could only trigger on skill hits wouldn't even be worth talking about.
1. Sundering can trigger on any hit, and effects only the base damage.
2. Crits effects only base damage, skills do not effect it's chance of triggering.
3. The situations where sundering is a remotly good mod are nearly non-existant.
The AP from Strength only triggers on skill hits, perhaps that is what you are confusing it with. However, the str bonus triggers on every skill hit. A sundering mod that could only trigger on skill hits wouldn't even be worth talking about.
thrice
It's still really bad to use, but good for selling to people who don't know better.
Cottage Pie
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Originally Posted by Katari
Where are you pulling this info from? It has been my understanding that sundering:
1. Sundering can trigger on any hit, and effects only the base damage. 2. Crits effects only base damage, skills do not effect it's chance of triggering. 3. The situations where sundering is a remotly good mod are nearly non-existant. The AP from Strength only triggers on skill hits, perhaps that is what you are confusing it with. However, the str bonus triggers on every skill hit. A sundering mod that could only trigger on skill hits wouldn't even be worth talking about. |
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Cottage Pie
unlike the +1 skill grips, it doesn't say 'when using a skill', so you may be right...
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Somethings have not worked right since the beginning of the game. Dark fury is just one off the top of my head.
get cha
I keep hearing about this bug for Dark Fury. I tested it out a while ago, and it seemed to work right for me. They did add that failure if < 4 blood a little while ago, if thats what u mean.
Back on to topic. So penetrating blow doesnt stack with sundering mods, I understand that part. But what if you're warrior primary, 10 strength, sundering mod and have judge's insight? Theoretically I see a 20% chance of 50% armor penetration.
Or does sundering and judges not stack too, since it is a skill?
Back on to topic. So penetrating blow doesnt stack with sundering mods, I understand that part. But what if you're warrior primary, 10 strength, sundering mod and have judge's insight? Theoretically I see a 20% chance of 50% armor penetration.
Or does sundering and judges not stack too, since it is a skill?
GranDeWun
As worked out in other threads, a 20/20 sundering weapon is equivalent to about +8% damage (constant). So you can judge for yourself if it is worthwhile.
Greedy Gus
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Originally Posted by Katari
Where are you pulling this info from? It has been my understanding that sundering:
1. Sundering can trigger on any hit, and effects only the base damage. 2. Crits effects only base damage, skills do not effect it's chance of triggering. 3. The situations where sundering is a remotly good mod are nearly non-existant. The AP from Strength only triggers on skill hits, perhaps that is what you are confusing it with. However, the str bonus triggers on every skill hit. A sundering mod that could only trigger on skill hits wouldn't even be worth talking about. |
Chilly Ress
I personally have a 20/20 sundering on my sword because on a sword it adds: 1.2-1.8dmg per hit. yes, that is lower than vamp, and does not heal you as does vamp. BUT, it does not cause health degeneration.
Lynnrose
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Originally Posted by Chilly Ress
I personally have a 20/20 sundering on my sword because on a sword it adds: 1.2-1.8dmg per hit. yes, that is lower than vamp, and does not heal you as does vamp. BUT, it does not cause health degeneration.
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Tobias Funke
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Originally Posted by Lynnrose
I love people who avoid some of the top mods in the game (vamp and zealous) because they fear the degen. Well, I love 'em when they're on the other team in PvP.
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Chilly Ress
Im PvE, go figure. I LOVE zealous, just not vamp, except on my axe.
EagleEye33
I dont care I still like it, i'll throw it on a new bow that I like
Omnidragon42
I like sundering on my longbow, my hornbow is vamp. I'll take zealous on any warrior or assassin weapon any day, thanks
master_ranger_matt
meh... i love the sundering mod, but i'd honestly have to say that they are still crap combat-wise. I have my sundering things as more of a status symbol, just like my armor.
Don Zardeone
Sundering only works with skills?
1 in 5 chance??
Who tested this where and when?
Whoever tested it should also stop using 1/5 chance.
1/5 is not always the same as 20/100
About that "only triggered with skills" thing. Isn't that the Strength attribute armor penetration?
Afaik, the penetration from str only happens when using a skill, the ap from sundering happens with a 20% chance every hit.
Maybe you got those two confused?
Where are those tests?
1 in 5 chance??
Who tested this where and when?
Whoever tested it should also stop using 1/5 chance.
1/5 is not always the same as 20/100
About that "only triggered with skills" thing. Isn't that the Strength attribute armor penetration?
Afaik, the penetration from str only happens when using a skill, the ap from sundering happens with a 20% chance every hit.
Maybe you got those two confused?
Where are those tests?
NatalieD
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Originally Posted by Don Zardeone
1/5 is not always the same as 20/100
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Loomy
Sounds like Sundering is THE switchout mod to use with Vampiric/Zealous, unless you have a specific need for the occasional adrenaline from Furious.
Katari
Since it's a good idea to have some sort of elemental damage weapon on a warrior/ranger/sin, swap it out with that, no need to waste a perfectly good upgrade slot with sundering.
Iskrah
People who defends Sundering now are people who advocated for it already when it was 10/10.
Others who got the math right knew back then and still do.
Others who got the math right knew back then and still do.
Zui
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Originally Posted by Iskrah
People who defends Sundering now are people who advocated for it already when it was 10/10.
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baz777
I also have 2 green bows, (longbow and a 5:1), but just could not resist making this bow for my new Cantha Ranger at the weekend
Hunter Sharparrow
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1 in 5 chance?? Who tested this where and when? Whoever tested it should also stop using 1/5 chance. 1/5 is not always the same as 20/100 |
a 1 in 5 chance is the same as 20 in 100 chance just scaled down. So 20% is the same as saying 1 in 5.
JR
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Originally Posted by Loomy
Sounds like Sundering is THE switchout mod to use with Vampiric/Zealous, unless you have a specific need for the occasional adrenaline from Furious.
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And yes, Vamp is still a lot better than Sundering.