Economy of pre-Searing

This thread was made as per the suggestion of nova-exarch, in response to my comments on his trade topic.

You can find the link to this topic here (He is searching for pre-Searing runes):
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3019178

First of all, I would like allow the staff of GWG for supplying us such a great medium to express our opinions, and share our knowledge. Second, I would like to apologize for my initial comments being posted the wrong one of such mediums.


nova-exarch, I meant no offense to you in the thread, I was simply stating my basic knowledge of GW (not to say that you needed it) and basic economy.

One last addendum, before we get started. This is a "guide" for those who have characters that are intended to stay in pre-Searing. And I would much appreciate me, or anyone who posts here, to not be bashed for our choice to make a pre-Character. The bottom line is, I play this game for fun, and I think pre-Searing is fun.

Anyway, on with the goods. I have a few retorts to some very valid points made by nova-exarch, and to make those understandable, I will quote the key peices from his thread.

But first of all, let me explain something. There is an entire economy in pre-Searing. Some people are far too aware of this, and others are completely oblivious. If I use the word "ignorant", please do not take it offensively. I use it as it is meant to be used. If someone is ignorant on a matter it simply means that they do not know about it. So yes, so people are very ignorant to the existance of certain things in pre-searing. I am making an attempted to enlighten them. Here are a few of those things, that I know for a fact to be true.

1) There is an economy there, just as there is in the rest of the world
2) It is possible to achieve lvel 20 in pre-Searing. Still.
3) There ARE max weapons, green/gold items, and runus in pre, just to name a few
4) Some people do have characters (myself included) that intend to keep their charcter in pre for the entire duration of it's existance
5) It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to salvage runes/upgrades from normal salvage kits
6) It IS possible to tame a bear as a pet
7) It is possible to have a level 20 pet with a much lower level character
8) Black dye are NOT worth as much as they are in post-Searing

I'm sure I'll add to this list, just as soon as I get yelled at my players for something new.


Okay, I'm sure that was a bore..But It couldn't be avoided.
I had to save the thread from the hundreds of "YOU CANT DO THIS" or "YOU CANT DO THAT" posts..

If you have a question as to how the these cames to be, feel free to ask, but please do not make a blatant deny of the things I've posted without suitable evidence. And believe me, I've spent quite a deal of time in pre, so I know what i'm talking about. Please don't take me as arrogant, I really do enjoy helping out players, and if there is some questions that you need assistance with, do feel free to contact me in-game.

But now, I will give you the basic run down of the economy in pre, AS PER MY EXPERIENCE.

Pre is potenetially more profitable than post, if you have the right items, or know the right people. EX: I often get offered triple the value of my pre black dye/gold for post items/gold

As for normal items, they aren't worth squat. You cant find them everything in pre. Items that are harder to find, BUT YOU'R STILL ABLE TO FIND are worth much more to you in pre.

Now for the good stuff. Let me take a while to explain this, as it seems that most people are unaware of these events.

Last April, there was a "glitch" that allowed a character in pre-Searing gain access to battle spectation (you can still do this). If that character was in a Guild, with a Guild Hall, they could then travel from the battle isles to their Guild Hall. Making sense yet? Gah.. Okay..

Once at the Hall, you could get your guild-mates to open trade with you, and stock you full of items from post (max weapons, sup runes, sup salvage kits, etc). Then you could simply return to pre-Searing.

Since this time, the glitch that allowed this exploit has been patched. As for the items, aNet has made no attempt to recover or delete the ones that came from post. That means that a few players still have these items. As there has been a certain increase of players wanting to gain a high level in pre, the items are selling very fast.

I compiled some forumlae to calculate the amount of profit you could net from an expert/superior salvage kit in pre, which are very valuable equations for those interested in buying one in pre:


I'm sorry for the forumulae are a bit hard to read, but I allowed room for you to calculate in the uses that are left on the kit, the viariable (u), and the current value of the runes, the variable (g) for gold. Also, I flunked out of algebra in high school lol. If those forumulae are incorrect, please someone tell me.



Ans as for your response to that, nova-exarch

Why... Thanks you!





You're right, Nova. And I appreciate the arguement. The thing is, since there is no guild-line set by a Dye Trader, people sell them for whatever they want to. When I buy/sell dye, I usually do it for 6k each. Sell or buy. That's a fair price in pre, it always has been. And trust me, pre is where I spend most of my time in GW, I know the economy. And PLEASE. Do not think that I'm implying in any way that you do not know the economy. People just don't like to give their dye away for much less than 6k, and I REFUSE to buy one at a higher price, in pre. Most people don't mind, and if they want that extra 1 or 2k, they'll take it to post. But the people I deal with while i'm in pre have characters that STAY in pre. Where this is no dye trader. Prices can basically be what you make of it there, unless you plan on going to post.


Once again, nova, I agree. The mend for such high-end items in pre is INCREDIBLY small. Hell, I would imagine that less than 1/4th of the GW population (at the least the pre-Sear population) are unaware of such items in pre. But those are not the people that interest me. I'm interested in the players that will be in pre for a while. The ones that frighten me are the other players in my situation. Someone who wants to master pre-Searing (go ahead. Laugh away. Light the flames. I'm ready).

It's a small, tightknit group, and we all either know each other, or our friends know each other. For the most part, it's a fairly good group of friends. With a few exceptions.

Firsst of all, I made it very clear that I am trding PRE items -for- PRE items. I don't want to take the risk of getting scammed. And as the last part of my forumulae, I was just illustrating how much money someone could make from one of those kits. If he/she was going to sell one, logically, they would sell it cheaper, for the time that they would require to sell all of the runes. I'm just saying, still, you'd have to pay out of the ass for one.

I hope this clears some things up, if you have any questions, or just want to call me a jerk :P

Please just respond

Found that quite an interesting read. I'm one of the ignorami (? )....didn't realise alot of that.

Cool.

I was hoping you wouldn't take anything I said in the wrong fashion. I personally didn't mind the discussion there in the "WTB" thread. I've just seen others fussed at for posting too much in their own threads. (Too many bumps and whatnot)

I guess I shouldn't have said "troubles". The formulas are perfect for what you intended. They show what a kit would be worth to you, a player planning to stay in pre.

Ah, but I was the one offering to buy and I didn't specify. I'll trade either way. There are ways to be safe about trading.

Oh, I was totally tracking you on that count. Just a little 25 shot would be great. I have no intentions of making 1,000,000 gold in pre.

--

By the way... if you haven't taken an economic class yet, you should. If you like to figure this sort of stuff out in a game world then doing the same thing in the really real world should be quite easy.

--

Anyway, from your list:

1) /agree... it's much more tenuous/in a state of flux, but it's there.
2) Sure does take a whole lot of time though
3) True. They're bragging rights only... I mean it's not like you need them
4) True
5) True
6) True and False... (Only with help)
7) True, but code 59 has made it more of a PITA now
8) This is debateable. I wouldn't accept anything less than the 6k you mentioned. I haven't checked post prices lately but I think 6k isn't that far off.

Good stuff!

Vewwy interesting. I'm gratified to know that I'm not the only one who loves playing pre-searing.

One question: can you somehow charm the rabbit as a pet?

That's a very good question, hellboy. I've not seen it done. It may be possible, though.

If you'd like to try it out, get in contact with me in-game


Thank you
I may look into that

Not a big fan of pre myself but im very interested in your achievments. Can u please most some screenshots of ur 20lvl char and dyes, etc.? I think this group of pre-lovers can be called an elite group, there are the 2 extremes: Very rich people with millions of platinum and hundreds ecto across their numerous 'mule' accounts and these more subsistant but at the same time more hard-working people people who grind in pre-searing.
I'd very much like to see those max weapons in pre resulting from the glitch

The two most well equipped pre players I've heard of are in this thread.

I'm still level 12. 25% from level 13 though.

I seriously doubt I will go past 17 but who knows?

Don't bother guys... The Rabbit isn't a valid target for the Charm Animal skill.

I tried it already

So anyone know why it's there? Is this just another half-finished quest thing like Gwen?

It's probably there for the same reason the grass and trees are there. For the "feel" and look of the game.

I've got a question. How do you tame a bear? I thought maybe distracting it with another player would work but the Brea Charm(or whatever it's called) skill doesnt need a target. And I cant think of anyway to tame one.

My request to theRizzler:

I am having a hard time believing your statements but it will help me a lot if you can show me a screen shot of your character in pre-sear together with your inventory.

1. I agree. Although the economy in pre is in a small scale (ie 10g-500g trade, exemption on Black Dye)

2. I don't agree. I don't know any monster that will give you experience point when you reach level 14~

3. I don't agree. Unless someone exploited an old bug which according to you has already been patch. It means there is no longer supply/production of those items from unauthorized source.

4. Agree.

5. Agree.

6. It was. Not anymore.

7. I disagree. Unless if you can show me a level 20 pet owned by a lowe level character.

8. Partially agree coz all dyes cost lower in pre compared to post. Unless one "ignorant" player sells his black dye for 100g.

Those are what I think. Please help me "accept" or "digest" your points by showing pictures. Pictures may change my opinion.

green and gold items in pre????? did i missed something?

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I had a level 20 character in pre-Searing, but I do not. My pre-character is level 16, and I doubt I will go higher than that. But I know for a fact that it is still possible.

As for the screens, I took some of my character, one showing a rune (which many people claim to be impossible to get in pre), one showing the dye you requested to see, and the last showing that my exp is not stuck at 0%.

These are rather large images, so I hosted them from photobucket. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Screens:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...er/sirmyk1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...er/sirmyk2.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...er/sirmyk3.jpg

Also.. While I'm posting screenshots.. Did no one else notice this glitch a few days back? I've not seen it posted anywhere.. Have a look.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...r/gwglitch.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5.../gwglitch1.jpg

[EDIT] I posted another screenshot of this glitch, one taken in town after the mission. It's only supposed to say 1k experience and 1 skill point.. But as you can see, that was not the case.


I understand your skepticism, and I respect your request. I have provided the screens above as evidence of most of the claims, except for the one I cannot entirely prove to you, because I've yet to attain a max sword for my character.

As for reaching level 20 in pre, it is possible.
The highest level monsters in pre are the 4 Charr bosses, located in the Northlands. They are all level 10. By naturally killing them, you can attain a level 16 character (you get exp for killing monsters up to 5 levels under you).
If you want to get to a higher level than that, you need higher level monsters to kill.
The remedy? Level up the monsters. Let them kill you. They gain exp just like a PC would. This is, however, very time consuming. Before the update that decreased the chase distance on monsters, you could simply pull a group of Charr to a resurrection shrine, and let them kill you while you're AFK.

While this is still possible in certain places, it's hardly as efficient.


As for the max/green/gold weapons I mentioned, yes, they came to pre via an exploit. It allowed characters to access their Guild Hall from pre-Searing, so then a guild mate could load them up with post items, and have them simply return to pre. This is how you'll see items such as max weapons, bags, runes, superior salvage kits, etc, in pre. True, the exploit was patched (around Valentine's Day I believe), but the items that made it to pre still exist, and I've heard no concrete evidence that aNet has made any attempt to remove the items.

As for the bear taming.. It is still possible. A friend proved this to me yesterday.


As for the level 20 pets, refer to my previous notes on leveling up monsters.


[edit]I'm having some problems with photobucket wanting to resize my images, I'll try to get it worked out ASAP
[edit]Images are working fine. Sorry about load times for slower connections, the pictures are high resolution.
[edit]Screw photobucket.. I'm hosting them locally now. (locally as in my machine, not GWG's)

there is no pre-searing economy unless you scam dyes off newbs, 'nuff said.

Congratulations. That's the most ignorant statement I've read in a while.

"'nuff said".

Heh..

Next time, please base your posts on actual knowledge.
Also, a little reading goes a long way.

Play the real game, chump, don't cower away in pre-searing trying to be the big daddy-o.

Pre-searing economy...yeah, of black dye scammers! nuff said!

Interesting...I always planned out my characters with a goal in mind, like my ranger - I wanted her to trap in the UW. So I ran her through Pre, getting all the skills then jumping over ASAP. Never really did much questing or exploration, and now all my slots are used up.

hmmmmm..... /ignore

This is such a cool post, I actually wanted a warrior of mine to stay in pre, but then I needed a sword for IW and it wasnt until I got him to deliver it in post that i realised you can still wield weapons even if you dont meet the requirements... so yeah that put me off pre for a while.

I'd like to go back actually, I love the trading that takes place in fort ranik, I made about 10k at one time (which i spent.... took me friggin ages too)

Hint on catching bears:

2 ppl
narrow area
1 body block

If you are able to charm it, it was meant to be charmed.

I've seen a minor rune before, couldnt salvage it tho.

You're a moron... anything in which trading is possible has an economy, I thought that even the most braindead of people would realize that.

Besides, you only posted in order to stir the pot so leave and find another forum to troll. No one wants you here.

hey, ignoring my opinion?

pretty ignorant, really, considering i know easily as much as these people 'bout the game I do have actual knowledge, I do have 2k hours playtime, and i read a lot, gg.

there is no pre-searing economy to speak of, at all (bar all those pathetic dye scammers), the trades for the big items are often conducted OUTSIDE of presearing for a start (like, 5 people wanting to spend all their cash on leaked items in presearing is no economy, it's a niche group of people who think of themselves as "elite" LOL) (go and check WTB forums for relavent posts), thus that's a post-searing/the real economy, if anything, trading for pre-searing items...


yeah, you really just /ignored me after reading that.

such a reducto-ad-absurbum arguement, not gonna 'buy' your reasoning, however. one could jokingly argue it's hardly economical to spend 300K on something worth 30k...

And i am not trolling...just strongly disputing there is a pre-searing economy, when infact it's just a tiny niche group of people! it's utterly a post searing economy superimposed. The items should never be there, they are post searing, the trades are probably in post-searing gold. Anything but pre-searing, get my meaning?

and i'm sure the numerous people who've PM'd me to say thanks pieface after i stopped them getting ripped off/helped them do THK/given a '10K noob pack' would disagree, yeah? This is just my opinion, not a pointless troll.

ok, ok. I take my ignore back... omg.... im ignoring myself^^ lol jk.

*bows*

Fort Ranik, pre-searing armour.... there is money to be made there, for people who cant spend 10 minutes hunting for it themselves.

You're absolutely right though. Pre-searing economy is relatively insignificant when compared to Post, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

omg.... use the edit feature on your first post, you'll get in trouble...

Actually, I also hate the dye scammers in Pre. I do all I can to stop them. They get pissed off, but I've saved a few peoples stress.

500g for blue dye..... and he's saying he's sold one in LA... Thank god I know how to throw passive insults.

I just said there's not one to speak ofcos 95% of people there probably are just trying to escape into ascalon and get ran on their 10th character or something. the people who spend insane amounts on cash on having uber weapons there form like....0.001%, and that is no economy ^_^

also this
got me annoyed, cos that attitude is the arguement i get of pre-sear dye scammers spamming "WTB black dye for 100g pls" when I tell 'em to stop scamming... I suppose it is the fundamental arguement here - in how I and the OP see the pre searing economy - i see them as being worth the same (as do most people) cos you only have to do one mission and boom you've got a 9k pot of black gold.

I see my ignore button is still on me... it doesn't have the same effect on you does it?

I see your post running away from the screen... I don't trade just so that people can go off scanting that they have uber... or whatever you call it... items. That's going into snobbery (noob callers)... which I despise and hate above all.

*tease* there is too an economy. My obvious proof of existing trades in pre outweighs your badly estimated 0.001%. At least give some crudentials.

The ppl who try to buy 100g black dye are most likely new players.... not scammers. They hear about black dye and think "oh, I want black too". Those people, who haven't heard of a dye trader... I kindly remind them about how much black dye is worth. That separates them from scammers.

I'm not as lucky as you seem to be at finding black dye. I've only ever come across... like... 5 in my whole time playing.

Just a few comments..

First, I obviously didn't specify the difference in value of pre/post black dye. I in no way meant that it should be bought/sold cheap there, but cheaper than in post (unless trading for post gold). All of the black dye I have in pre-Searing, I bought it for 6k each, and that's what I price it at as a resell value. I'm not out to scam anyone, and I apologize for not going into further detail on the issue.

Second, I think you're missing the point of this thread, Cottage Pie.
The only reason I posted it is because, like you're saying, the economy in pre-Searing is very insignificant compared to post, and I just wanted more people to be aware of the fact that some people do have characters that remain in pre-Searing, for whatever the reason may be. Helping guildies through pre, recruiting for newbie guilds, or just for fun. And due to this fact, there is a demand (however small it may be) for certain items there. Thus, there is an economy. Again, I stress it is a very small economy, but there are quite a few nice, dedicated players in pre who would like to improve their character to the maximum given the limitations of their choice of the character's location.


Honestly Terra, I've only found two on that character. The way I make most of my money in pre is by power leveling people. eg: Solo'ing Charr for them

Actually, people that buy dye for 100g are most likely scammers. On another fansite (I believe guild hall) there is even a guide to earn quick cash, and the black dye scam is even added to that guide (also not to do it in crowded districts, since then there is less change of another player warning the newbie about the true value of black dye).

Yes, a lot of them are, Gonzo.

I've always thought it would help so much to have a dye trader in pre. Just so the newbies would be able to see the actual value of their dye, instead of having to take someone's word for it.

But that would never happen, it's just a pipe dream.

There is???

good thing I only ever come to this website. I'd fecth my shutdown mes, lol.

Well, even in real life there's a lot of companies who can live very comfortably on a niche, so the relative size compared to the mass market is no valid indicator wether its an economy or not. Most people ignoring the niche economy will just make the niche more profitable.

Sure, the uber items are mostly artefacts of a time long gone, but so are antiques...

The dye prices are actually interesting. The hypothetical pre-sear dye trader must not be linked to the post sear trader. Then I'd agree that prices would be lower for lack of buyers, because few people passing through will spend money on fashion that is outdated as soon as post is reached. But there seem to be some artful dodgers around, dancing, chatting and generally not doing much who'd be interested in fashion, as are some role players, guild recruiters and the regulars.
Some will sell their dyes - they want cash, the inventory space, or don't have a clue. But if prices were too low, it would be best for most to hang on to their dyes until post.

Would the minimum sell price in pre be a lot lower than the minimum buy price of post sear (even when gold is much harder to farm in pre)? I doubt it, because then regulars might farm gold, and any twink on his way through might realise the arbitrage revenue in post.
Still 6k is a lot - my chars usually switched to post with less than 2k. So the real value for black in pre would be like time needed to farm 6k + arbitrage revenue vs time needed to farm 8k or whatever in post.

Inventory slots are scarce, so what to use them for? salvaging materials is a waste unless you save up for post - 4g per salvage + sell price is for most items (including low level "highly salvagable" ones) not more than the sell price of the materials in pre.

Side thought: Flowers are another nice export to post - i've seen people buy the stuff for 10g each in pre, probably storing them away for opportunities like valentine's day.

Braggi, lots of Guilds run scavenger hunts for things such as flowers in pre, that's where I see most people buying them from.

Also, another major export from pre to post is Charr Hides.

And for all practicality, these are the reasons I've seen that make black dye cheaper to buy in pre (technically, but not logically).

1) It drops more often there, given the area of the map and the ammount of players on it, than it does anywhere else in the game (not just black dye, dye in general)
2) The biggest reason: pre gold is harder to come by than post gold. Now, to characters that do not have extended visits to pre, this does not matter. They would be much better off selling their dye in post, or buying it in pre (if they had the cash). But for those of us with characters in pre, we realise that gold is more valuable in pre, due to it's scarcity. Pretty much everything that cannot be purchased from a merchant, in pre, holds more value to a pre-character than the same item in post. This, again, is due to the fact that such items are rare, and cannot simply be bought from a local town merchant.

Charr hides are a nice fallout from farming the charr, agreed. I doubt it is more efficient than fighting in post (i have access to better skills there). I still wonder if the regulars are mostly single, or affiliated to guilds - recruiting and testing new players, rushing twinks through pre?

I didn't see any hard numbers for this, but that's my impression as well. Maybe its due to the fact that there are so few other drops.

Might be. Farming gold in post usually means to multiply your results by selling expensively to other players, which works limited in pre (like selling wall weapons to starters). Still I think my reasoning for normal dyes is true while the regular pre economy is so small - if any passerby can make a quick buck by buying lower than post buy prices, he will. So there's a lower price limit. But black is different; 6k or more is a hurdle the normal passerby doesn't take (because this requires some farming beyond the wall).

When all is said and done, what can you buy with gold as a longtime regular? With the 100k limit per character, black dye obviously has taken the ectos role in pre - to store wealth. The exploit items are an ever dwindling market (antiques), I think if I'd try to buy a sup salvage use, it would take me more than just 2 black dyes. The same goes for weapon artefacts - if someone deletes his pre character I doubt he'd sell/ give to anyone.
And I think some would kill for additional 10 slot bags ^^.

Here it gets interesting. What we omitted until now is how to make a new permanent pre char. If you solo it, the hardest part is around lvl 8-10, because leveling inside is slow and leveling beyond the wall is still hard for someone lacking equipment.
So an interesting area would be the "best drop" drop market there - what are the best weapons available in pre, what prices can be fetched?

Braggi.. In response to the first part of your post, I sell Charr hides for 35g/ea in pre-Searing, to make some spare change on my character there. The players then take them to post and sell them for 50g each (or just swap 4 out for a fur square), so I make money, and they make money. Good business.

Also, the population is very broad. There are many guilds who have players that stay in pre just to recruit, but most of the people I know are there by themselves. Another popular trend I'm seeing, however, are guilds popping up made for pre-Searing characters.

As for the numbers of the dye drops, I don't have any exact figures. What I do have, however, are some very concrete theories.

Most of the monsters that are capable of dropping dye in pre, and those that do so on a regular basis, are very low level. When I farm for dye, I either farm 1 of 3 locations. The undead, in The Catacombs is one location. Dye drops very frequently here. All of the monsters are level 1-3, with the occassional level 5 boss. The 2nd, which may I add, has been nerfed. These are the bandits located just outside of Ashford Abbey (from the quest "Bandit Raid"). They still drop dye, just not nearly as much as they used to. Once again, all low level. 1-3.

The last, and my personal favorite. River Skales and Skale Broodcallers RIGHT outside of Fort Ranik. I use some AoE from that monk smiting skill (can't remember the name right now..), and can usually take them ALL out in 1-2 casts of that (depends on how tightly they group around me). And as most people who have farmed for dye for any amount of time can tell you, it's quantity over quality when it comes to the monsters you're killing.

Killing 20 or so Skale at once gives you a much better chance of a dye dropping than going out and killing 20 of the 2/7 charr here that can drop dye. BTW, these runs usually net me a dye drop every 2-3 runs (sometimes much more frequently, sometimes much less).



As for the last bit of your post, I must say.. Warriors have it easy in the weapons department in pre. You can get a Rinblade from the Crafter for 10 Iron Ingots, and 100g. The weapon is pretty sick compared to the normal drops here. That pretty much reigns over all the other professions, but then again, they don't have to rely as much on their weapons.

Ranger may get a pretty bow from Aidan, too. Still found better bows beyond the wall in a short time (better being relative here, but higher damage than 7-10).

Caster staffs from inside are mostly crap and I can't craft them - I use a 1H staff, and the healing ankh from menhlo atm.
Raising my necro's blood magic or curses gives little return per attribute point after 5, so (especially at lvl 8-10) a good staff that just adds to the damage pressure makes things easier.

Why are you guys discussing this? Presearing was pretty, is a lead in to the main story line, you are MEANT to leave presearing... You not elite by staying in pre, your anything but elite. Presearing is for new, low level characters, not level 13+ people. Stop discussing a pointless area of this game when you look at the bigger picture. It is what... 10% of the game, no more like 6-7%. jeez, this is really ridiculous... Oh well, this is what you people do for fun, argue over noobland, Tyria. GG, congrats on your black dye collection. Try bringing those to post and actually making a profit rather then staying in that pretty, pathetic area of lowbies.. Jeez....

There was a person like you in Pre-Searing yesterday, just flaming any high level characters.

Yes your meant to leave there, but it doesn't mean you have to! Really you whole post was one big flame and really if people want to remain in Pre-Searing then let me.

My Monk/Warrior in pre-searing is happy to be there at the moment, fighting charr, collecting black dyes. I may never move her to Post-Searing.

Now flame off and go cool down somewhere...

So everyone who buys dye at that price is a scammer? That's stupid. I got 4 purple dyes yesterday while I was making Pink Dye for my Pre-searing monk... does that make me a scammer?

No its doesn't.

Like, RL? I might ask my mother then what she thinks about someone spending 2k hours in a game...

I'd appreciate if you don't tell us what or what not to do. Anyone not interested in a thread may always just skip it. Txs.

Gah.. I've said it before, I'll say it again. A little reading goes a long way.
Start about... Right here.

Heh.. Couldn't have said it better myself.




Onto a more serious, and intellectually valuable, cerebral stimulation..

Gonzo, please do not allow me to speak for you, but RTS, awaiting a response from him, I can possibly offer some insight as to his theories, because I do partly agree with his statements.

There are some people who troll around pre, offering to buy all dyes for a set price (usually not higher than 100g). The target of these buyers is quite often silver/black dye, which they hope to get for next to nothing, from newbies. Also, half of the dye in pre is worth more than 100g. So most dye purchased at that price can be sold again, at an inflated price, to yield a higher profit. And to an extent, this is just economy, but after it goes so far, it's a gyp. Especially in the case of them purchasing black/silver dye from newbies who do not know any better. Because I guarantee that if over half of their customers knew the value of their dye beforehand, they would not sell to them.

However, in the case of some dye (purple, yellow, maybe even orange), 100g is more than a fair price in pre. But honestly, I think Gonzo was talking about the people who are intentionally attempting to purchase the highest value dye at prices that are RIDICULOUSLY deflated, just to turn around and sell them at standard market price, or a reasonably inflated variant thereof.

Good points all around.

Yes its true there are people who spam spam spam for dyes at only 100g and then sell them at 3 times the price. Sadly this is a fault on A.nets are.

Maybe they should change it so that when you first pickup a dye, a blue help pop-up box should tell you what they generally are worth, appox only of course. Like this:

"You have picked up a dye. To use it on your armor or weapons simply double click on the dye and then click on the item you wish to apply it to. All dyes have only one use, even if you mix different dyes together. Dyes are worth different amounts in the player market. Check at a Dye trader before selling them"

Sadly it will always be the case where there are people spamming in Pre-searing trying to take advantage of people.

Yes, that would help many new players in their quest to not get ripped off.

So would adding a Dye Trader to pre. It won't happen, and it would sort of mess with the pre-economy.. But it would be worth it, so the newbies wouldn't lose so much gold to the scammers.