On Leaving A Guild

I've recently left my guild due to circumstances beyond my control. Although I'm not looking for a guild, I'm looking for a second opinion from a non-biased source. My decision to leave was based on the following in order of importance:

• Shady Dealings by the Leader
  Although an active member in the guild, the guild leader's favorite past time is to set up skirmishes within the guild. Whoever his team is, he alters the players by having them switch to other characters without notice to the other party(which was originally stated as against the rules). This would give him an advantage over the opposing skirmish team.
  
• The Lying tongue
  Anytime I call out a shady dealing by the guild leader, officer, or important member of the guild, it gets suppressed by the leader or staff. Basically, they want to win and be right regardless of the morality behind their case.
  
• The Door Swings 1 way
  After receiving quite a bit of requests from others for help, I barely have time to level or do anything with my lower level characters. The expectation is on me to be there and help out others, but when I require assistance, my friends list is generally of more help.
  
• What are friends?
  Honestly, I don't really know anyone in the guild. I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine.
  

Now, I'm not going to put a name to the guild, but it just strikes me as funny since I left quietly and afterward, my wife starts to ask me if I was making threats against the guild. Apparently the leader started telling others that I was sore and started to threaten the guild, which is not true, since barely anyone realized I was gone.


Meh, I think the transient life may be better for the moment, but I'm always looking for improvement on how a situation could be handled better, so if you have constructive comments, I'd like to hear them.

If you were unhappy with the actions within the guild, then it was best that you left. Move on and leave your wife to continue with that Guild if she wants.

[QUOTE=xenoranger]
[*]What are friends?
Honestly, I don't really know anyone in the guild. I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine.

QUOTE]

That's just enough reason to leave, unless your'e really new to it . If in a reasonable time haven't done them, just go. No biass or regret.

Well, I have friends, but they're spread across other guilds. I just joined this one b/c of my wife. I guess it's better if we just play as we want to and not join certain groups based on the fact that we're married.

make a new guild and take you'r wife whith you

I'm sorry but....


ROFLMAOBBQ

If your guild is treating you badly, you have reason enough to leave.

If on the other hand, you guild is treating you wonderfully, but they don't meet your standards, do you have reason to leave? This is an interesting question. Yes, you have a standard which you want your guild to live up to, but at the same time, unless you can say that they really AREN'T trying to get better towards your standards, don't you have a loyalty commitment to them? Are not YOU responsible to make your invite worth the 100 gp cost to the leader or officer?

I suppose this is really off topic, but I'm going to continue ranting anyway.

Being the leader of a small, primarily PvE guild, I've had a TERRIBLE time retaining members. Often, when I see someone advertising "Looking for a guild," and we chat, and I invite them, they leave within a DAY of joining, without so much as a 'No thanks, it just didn't work out.' Perhaps my guild doesn't satisfy all of their needs, but we TRY HARD TO GET BETTER. All the people out there with five second attention spans need to understand, a guild is HARD WORK. There's a LOT of competition between guilds for members, so of course, if one guild doesn't work for you, you'll quickly find another one.

But doesn't the player who ASKS for an invite, sans any qualifying statement like "Must have TS/ do HoH," have an OBLIGATION to his guild? CAN he leave? Yes. CAN he find another guild, probably a better one, quickly? YES. But the fact remains that he SHOULD not. He should do his best to make the guild better, and if it doesn't BECOME better, then his obligation is void. Until one can see that the guild is not making progress, one should be LOYAL. Loyalty in a game might seem ludicrous, but it's not. A game like GW is based around the principles of loyalty. Think about it. Guilds in themselves are tight knit groups of people who share common interests and goals, and who are loyal to one another. There's even a certain amount of loyalty in PuGs, keeping one player from leaving, simply because they're loyal to the group, and the group finishing its quest or mission.

So, were you justified in leaving your guild? Yes, most emphatically. If a leader is not honourable, or if he betrays a trust, the bonds of loyalty are broken, as in real life. If a general cannot command his soldiers' trust, he cannot command them. But I encourage ALL those people who read this thread and who might be considering to leave their guild: Give it a chance.

Thanks for listening!

Well i started my own guild with my Husband. Its called JK ( Jeepers Kreppers) but it also stands for our first names. Now i recruited a bunch of friends into the guild, but its really small and they are never on lol so really its just us playing and we meet people along the way. Good for you leaving though, its what i would of done. !

... ... ... <<Abbreviated>> ... ... ...


it's not that I have a 5 sec attention span, but it is that when I see shady dealings in the leadership, I tend to shy away from a guild. I've been in 3 guilds so far. (4 if you count the pop in at a friend's request, but I paid him the 100 gp b/c I wasn't going to stick around).

Mostly, PvE guilds interest me most. Primarly b/c I don't play competatively as much as just enjoying the game. My requirements are simple for a guild: I help the members and they help me. It's a trade. If you're in a guild, you need to give back to the guild. That's what makes a guild strong. But when it winds up (like in all 3 guilds) where I'm spending 90% of my time helping others, but the 10% where I request help I get nothing... there's something wrong there.

Please, by all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

On the initial post, you were at odds for some time it seems.
Hope you informed your spouse in advance about you leaving and the reasons, so she didn't catch the news in the papers.

I found this almost never works as an unwritten contract, because other players may have another notion here. Some take the free ride. Many people who get dragged through most hard parts of the game rarely appreciate your effort, as opposed to your ingame friends who fight side on side with you. Then there are people who really think themselves open and helpful - but whenever they're on, they're unavailable as their scheduler is already full with group events... RL friends form subgroups in guilds, mostly sticking together...

Either the guild explicitely declares to prefer guildies over externals when playing, has a certain culture about helping e.o. or there is a timeslot for this. Otherwise I found it never works.

On a side note, I find the guild rooster not very informative when looking for someone who might be able to help me out.

I'm not sure what you mean by an unwritten contract. But in my experience (with my own guild) there are always people who are willing to help. Maybe they can't be there right at that second you get on (I mean really everyone is not waiting for YOU to show up at a specified time). They are probably doing other things. I think it is really up to the officers and leader to make sure that everyone who is looking for people to help get some. But you can't expect someone to be available everytime you get on (of course this depends on the size of your guild, but my experience is in small guilds, so that's where my coments are aimed).

@OP: I agree with you that it is a two-way street, you help others and they help you. If it's only going one way, then I would find a new guild.

Let's see...

1) You spend 90% of your time helping the guild out
(at work all day)
2) The Guild Leader has claimed that you are bad mouthing the guild after you left
(the set up)
3) Your wife is still in the guild....
(she's still seeing him)
4) You aren't competetive just looking for a guild that likes to play the game..
(nice guy)


It all adds up...Your wife is having a sordid affair with the guild leader, and everyone in the guild knows about it and that is why they were avoiding you, just too embarressed to be seen with you.

let's see what is that emote again

/adultury


Options:

-sue ANet.

-Or you could challenge the guild leader to a 1x1 match perhaps in the up comming BBQ torunment and defend your honor publicly (plug).

-Start a new char and hang out in pre-sear till it hits lvl 20 helping n00bs out with missions like getting a rez sig, and achieve hero warship from lvl 1,2,3's...

I recommend you try all 3 on for size...

**simply pathetic

Obviously you can't expect your guild to help you 100% of the time, but when you need help and everytime you do people are like "Im UW Farming" or "Can't, I'm running" or even "I'm working on this character, ask someone else" it's quite disheartenning. It only Exacerbates things when you're almost always dishing out assistance and you ask once in a while (it's usually once a week) for help from others. I mean, if someone was assisting me alot, I'd return the favor (and have in the past).

Plainly put, if you're in a guild and they're mooching off of you, there's really no point in sticking around.

At least, that's how I see it.

Play how YOU want to play, if you enjoy helping people out, do it. If you also enjoy just playing the game do that. If when you need help just because noone is there from your guild Is that enough reason to leave? Up to you. If a guild feels wrong to you leave plain and simple. I spent a lot of time searching for the right home, and eventually found something close. Then I began spending my energies getting it closer to my ideal, we all do, just by being who we are. Like ripples after a stone drops in water :P young grasshopper so also do we affect our surroundings by being there.

Nice way to put it.. but def food for thought

Well... it sounds as though you did the right thing. Feel free to check us out... or just tag along with us when you need some help... we are a low pressure lot.

Good luck mate.

roflmao. I saw that too, but I was just too afraid to say it... lol..

We've actually had quite a few married couples in my guild. It's always a treat when we get adults...

ju

You did the right thing in leaving and best of luck for the future.

Fortunately my wife has no interest in gaming. God, if she was in our guild she’d have everyone tidying out their storage box every 5 minutes and complaining about the dust in the guild hall

I'm so glad I'm outta there now. Not even a day later, the Guild leader decides he's going to take his frustrations out on my wife. It wasn't long before she decided she should leave as well.

Actually, we might start our own PvE guild. We'll see how it works out.

I feel your pain xenoranger, internal politics are often things that kill the guild from the inside.

More often then not, a guild leader should be well aware that his responsiblity to the guild is one of providing the direction, leadership and more importantly placing the enjoyment of the game for its members first and foremost.

Sorry to hear things have taken a bad turn for you and your spouse. I run a international medium sized PvE guild and we been around since august 2005, loyalty and delication to each other has always been how we based our style of play and i understand also what Oberon Shadowking mean when he mentioned players leaving without ever saying a word (reason why i stopped recruiting from PuG/shouts in town) and constantly working to maintain the guild isnt easy at all compared to other MMO games. It is generally hard work. But my personal belief is to find those you can truely call friends to play with either knowing them in RL or over time in game that would share your vision and dreams and would eventually become your officers and the pillars of the guild.

I wish you well in starting your own guild, but if PvE is your thing Do look us up as well

It's like this, Thallandor...

What you really need is organization. I'm not sure how your guild works, but if my wife and I decide to go forward and start our own PvE, we'd set up a page with all guild expectations as well as a chain for problem resolution should internal differences become unreconcilable. This way, people can enjoy the game and don't sponge off of the group.

More over, I have little respect for the guilds that just spam invitations in town. Honestly, you should just invite people you feel would be an asset. And they should be people you have known for longer than a single mission. Basically, tranfer from friends list to guild member.

Meh...
For now, it's all about enjoyment of the game. And to be honest, I kinda like the no-commitment model. Less politics to sap the fun from the game.

In a way i agree with you but more often than not using friend list to guild works well but can often be a slower process. This is not considering the need to ask the friend who is possibly already in another guild to quit to join yours....

In GWP playing as a couple, most of the missions and quest are easily done without having to touch PuGs and you can run each other easily across towns and missions. However, In Factions, unless the Hencie's AI is significantly improved i dont foresee it as a viable option and bad PuGs maybe too frustrating to endure.

Each to his own, good luck with your guild and have fun

Edit for sentance structure

You definitely did the right thing in leaving. Starting your own guild seems like the way to go; and make sure you clearly outline your expectations. Unless you have a decent amount of friends willing to start the guild off, it can be frustrating trying to form and advance a new guild. My advice would be just to start it with you and your wife, and just play through the game, seeing who you run across.

I wish the best of luck to you, and feel free to ask if you need help with anything.

You did the right thing in leaving. Not knowing how you left, you should have posted clear reasons, with examples if possible, of what was wrong. As a guild leader myself, I understand people might want to do their own thing or have disagreements, but I also expect them to have the common curtesy of letting me know why they are leaving.

Well, we did start our own Guild.

Nomadic Bohemians

Rule:
1) Must spend 1 hr a week helping other guildies (Anti-mooch clause)
2) Problems with guildies should be discussed directly with the guildie before involving an officer/guild leader
3) Must have fun (since, it is a game, and quite frankly if you're not having fun, then you wasted $50)


The name was inspired by that guild leader. He called me an "F---ing nomad" b/c I apparently bounce from guild to guild. The funny part is, I've been in 4 guilds. 3/4 were him having guilds, disbanding them, then building a new guild. The 4th guild was a sister guild, so I really didn't leave the circle of friends (or atleast that's what I used to call them).

Winterclaw:
The commom curtesy of letting people know why you're leaving did not apply in this case. The reason is because this guild leader has in the past justified his own actions. He could curse someone out for no reason at all and think he was justified. I didn't see a point in arguing it, so I figured stepping out quietly was the best.

Sometimes youll just find that a leader of a guild lacks any leadership qualitys. I think it was best you left. If people ask for help in a guild I only ever help those I trust and know. To many times new members have joined only so they can get free runs every where.

What is a guiod anyway? I mean I play PvE all the time and now with these new missions I have come across I can do PvE while strolling around Cantha. I'm quite a good player and found when In a guild I tended to be hounded for help constantly or asked for free things. I'm a little pissed about stuff like that as I played the game through twice on my own so I know it's hard but people dont seem to want to help themselves when someone else can do the hard work.
My latest guild is good though and has now smurfed down to 3 guilds. I'm still an officer in the original one but no longer offer help as Im busy with Cantha. Is that a bad thing? But one thing I have noticed though is that when a guild hits a certain figure thet tend to start falling apart at the seams

Well, my thoughts on guilds is that you should help eachother out. But you need to find a way to wield out the moochers. That's why I put the clause in there about helping out. Just kinda a way of saying "Give back or get out". Not really keen. I used to be the one helping everyone int eh guilds as well. But when I needed/wanted help, friends list or PuG.

I wish you all the best with the "Nomadic Bohemians" Xenoranger. Have fun

sounds like the other 5 guilds i was in lol. I would help them out doing missions and stuff and if i ever asked for help i never got a response.. i left those guilds and joined my friends guild back in october and just do a mix between getting help, giving help and generally being the best officer i can.

seems like most guilds, especially big guilds, are like that, they want your help but if you ever need anything, even 100g, theres noone to be found.

glad you and your wife left and are forming a guild. don't forget theres that thing called "real-life" as well.

It's that thing called "REAL LIFE" that I'm trying to preserve by not having my GW time more stressful/unsatisfying than my job. (at times, b/c I have apretty nice job)

He might have been a jerk, but there could also have been others in your ex guild that weren't jerks. Plus it would be a clear reason for everyone why you were gone. Maybe one or two of the others would have ended up agreeing with you. You don't have to argue anything, just leave a short and simple message.


BTW, even if you think it didn't apply to him, you should at least tried to have been better than he.

Yeah, true.

Honestly, I wasn't an officer or nothing, so when I left, I didn't think it a major deal. Besides, I didn't talk to anyone in the guild. I didn't see a point in announcing my departure. Keeping quiet was the best way (IMO) to make him look like an idiot.

How so....
#1) I did nothing that he can prove to the guild or others that would lessen me
#2) I'm not disrupting the guild by exposing his flaws as a leader.
#3) At the moment I left, if I'd started an arguement, I was so pissed that I might've said things that could get me in more trouble.

I forget who to credit for the expression, but ...
Sure, not the most curious way to leave, but IMO, the best way to avoid exacerbating things.

Ya know my husband is the leader of our guild, I am what is called the First Mate =P

Anyways there were times when we would argue over his treatment of the other guild mates... Basically while he was busy with school I was running the guild and there were several who either didn't like him or referred to me as leader... It got so bad that one time I logged on to see that I had been promoted to guild leader... This opened a whole can of wurms, like the big ugly one that has that necro elite >_< Anyways it was stupid stuff that over time was fixed once my fearful leader/husband got time to spend with his guild mates.
It's all ironed out and he spends time with the guildies when he can and now treats them all equal instead of being cowardly cause he doesn't know someone (and thusly coming off as a jerk).
Anyways, if he makes a mistake I fix it... If something goes wrong in the guild or we have to let a member go cause of fights - I do damage control. Unless it has to do with me, then he does damage control or if its something he thinks I would feel to strongly about he deals with it.

Nearly everyone in our guild are friends, we talk and hang out and we all trust each other!




That guild leader was a real .... *bleep* >_>
You didn't have to notify of your departure for his behavior towards his other guildmates made it very clear that he doesn't really care for his guild. It is typical for someone to at least let you know why you are being kicked as well, but most guilds don't adhere to that! If a scammer finds his or her way into my guild I am not about to make any announcement for why they are no longer wanted in our pressense. I had a guy that wanted in our guild just to mooch - from my own pocket I loaded him up with materials he would need and about 5k (within 20mins of being in the guild) and then I booted him, he never asked why he was booted, and before he was booted he never thanked me for the 200 steel ingots and gold..... Those who actually message me asking why they were booted are told. If it's an offense such as saying something that someone doesn't like we hold a meeting and its talked about. We give a warning and help the two parties work out the issue and if for some reason it continues (which it never has yet) then we give a last warning - one last time and they are kicked reguardless.

Anyways I think you and your wife should start your own guild! If not and you don't expect to much there are some really great guilds out there try and get with. Starting from scratch is hard! Easier done if you have a decent friends list that will fall into the guild.

Good Luck hun! Glad that you feel you did the right thing and sorry for how they treated you and your wife ;_;

...Abbreviated...


Whoa... that's alot to take in. But it does sound like you and I are on the same track when it comes to guilds and how they should be handled.

Yeah, my thought is, if you have a problem wiht someone, talk to them first. You don't have to like all your guildies, but you should at least respect them as people. Either way, it really is a matter of structure and good leadership. That's how the best guilds remain. I'm not looking to be the best PvP, GvG or whatever guild on teh severs, but I'm looking to keep our new guild as a group of friends who can come, hangout, and get help from one another as needed. Honestly, if you can't depend on your guild for support, why are you there?

Exactly! (prepare for me to do my usual longwindedness >_>)

Our guild started from a bad guild break with friends who didn't like my brother, when in truth he had nothing to do with the constant bitching that went on between the guild leader and her officer boyfriend. Too much drama for us, and it was sad cause they were friends till they started kicking friends (and my brother) without even so much as a warning. So we formed our own, gathered some friends from a message board and occassionally we pick up the random stray that doesn't have a home. We don't care what lvl or if they are even good...

We picked up a couple of new guys once in Frost Gate I think it was... One wanted to be an elitest and was in awe of us (which while flattering was a bit unnerving, cause we are anything but elitests).
The guy in awe of us was so bent on rushing so he could be as cool as us in the coolest armor and with the coolest weapons. We refused to help him in his rush to fame... Suddenly there were complaints about how he was annoying and wasn't listening and he only cared about being 1337...
He kept wanting to go to FoW but he was unwilling to listen to what we were trying to explain. So finally we got fed up and said: Fine you want to know what it takes to be like us, bring your leet warrior to ToA last district and we will show you!
He couldn't stance tank to save his life! Between me and my brother we burned about 12plat trying to show him why we weren't taking him with us on these 7hr trips to FoW.
Finally we called a meeting and I was made spokes peson since they thought I was best at explaining how everyone felt without being mean. I told him that he let his quest for leetness get in the way of being a good player and that we weren't trying to hold him back or make a fool of him in ToA but trying to prove that you do NOT become the best overnight - it takes time!

He nodded and took it in stride - in less than 2mths he made officer for being helpful and caring - He turned into an excellent guildmate! And in most of the guilds opinion the best warrior we know! I think out of all the guild mates we have had, he was the one we had to knock the hardest but we got the best results from him for it! He comes from a long line of gaming where he was #1 and to be in a guild with just friends that aren't anywhere near #1 must be hard for him - but I think he believes that without us he wouldn't have strove to be the best that he can be.


That other guy that joined up tho... Well he later called me a B*tch >_> We are all still very confused and apearantly he doesn't recall doing it either... o_O;;; He was asked 3times to explain the reason he said that but refused to respond past the "oh, fine .. i'm sorry" we asked him to try a little better than that and explain what his issue was.... He didn't and he logged.... We called an officer meeting and I informed my husband (who was at school) as to what had happened.... We all agreed to a booting, if he couldn't be bothered to explain himself, then neither could we. He later asked why he had been kicked... Said he didn't recall saying it but that he was sorry - he was offered the chance to come back on probation but refused (thankfully - he was unteachable and refused to read guild chat).

Every guild has things this way - I have brought so many lame ones into the guild I can hardly count them, but I have brought in about as many good ones as well. Now we screen more closely. If they haven't dirrectly contacted us and given some background on themselves - or are not decently known by another member they don't get in.

Had a guildie that thought a monk was good so he asked me to give an invite - the FIRST THING SHE ASKS FOR IS YELLOW ARMOR!

We were floored.... We said how about ecto to which she expected us to give her... She was promptly kicked lol... I swear some people act like you were born yesterday.

Our guild has lofty dreams of holding halls and having a decent guild rank but its not worth hurting our guildies to get to - it will happen, eventually ^_^

I sincerely wish you the best of luck with you guild! It sounds like you have the right idea on how to run things, I think you will be fine! ^_^!!!!

If you go with that idea,trust me in the fact that it isn't easy.

If you read further down, he already has with his wife.

Good luck.

@Eviance, your last post details the story of my life in our guild history as well nice to hear that i am not suffering alone lol.

Oops,anyway I wish you good luck Xenoranger.