My primary is a Healer Monk- I'm always needed, and usually appreciated... And as I continue to support my fellow Canthans in this Asian wonderland I have found that there is a new, popular, and ever dieing victem for me to heal. The Assassin.
I find that if there are Assassins in the party (Gods forbid if their are more than one) they die quick. Like 2 hits quick. Like here comes the mobs and oops, I got that heal off on you didn't I, guess not your dead, quick. Oh, NO, Mr. Bill quick.
This leads me to believe that there are a lot of people out there that are playing Assassins wrong. Assassins aren't tanks, they don't have tankish armor, they don't have tankish health, and they don't even look like tanks. They look like casters to me- or at most, rangers. And I don't see rangers running out front trying to get the first melee hit on mobs.
So as a Monk, I have started requesting that parties don't carry more than one Assassin. I just can't seem to keep them up! And if I try to keep an Assassin healthy the rest of the party suffers... Maybe we will begin to see Assassins learn to stay healthier on their own, but for now, I see lots of dead...... Assassins.
A Monk's view on Assassins
Fawn Dul
NightOwl
Meh. AL 70, which is higher than caster armor in most circumstances. Playing with half a brain keeps an assassin alive, even with a healer henchie.
Edit: Nice touch with the Mr. Bill reference.
Edit: Nice touch with the Mr. Bill reference.
jummeth
give it some time, people learn to play 'sins soon.
the wammo mentality is hard to shake, and of course there has been a large influx of new players who thought... hmm assassin... ninja.... invincible.... zOMG REZZ ME!
The other problems is an enemy AI upgrade I felt, they are so much more spikey than before. I might actually have to carry infuse health on my PvE healer =O
If only hench AI had a similar upgrade... or heck even upgraded to the old monster intelligence.
the wammo mentality is hard to shake, and of course there has been a large influx of new players who thought... hmm assassin... ninja.... invincible.... zOMG REZZ ME!
The other problems is an enemy AI upgrade I felt, they are so much more spikey than before. I might actually have to carry infuse health on my PvE healer =O
If only hench AI had a similar upgrade... or heck even upgraded to the old monster intelligence.
Nominal_Fee
Oh my, oh my, you are doing it all wrong ! Just send a nice "kick all assassins or I leave" to your leader when joining. Guess who would he rather have on his party...
GentleBreezes
Having played through the game, I think I've mastered how to play an assasin without annoying any monks out there, and doing a fine job of not dieing!
I am NOT a tank, my skill set is such that I go for as much damage from a distance, so the enemy is weakened. Then I get in there with my close contact skills to finish them off. This is working great and no monk has ever complained... even the henchies dont have a problem! I must be doing something right!
Just because there are 'sins that dont know how to play, doesn't mean we all need to be tainted with the same brush!
I am NOT a tank, my skill set is such that I go for as much damage from a distance, so the enemy is weakened. Then I get in there with my close contact skills to finish them off. This is working great and no monk has ever complained... even the henchies dont have a problem! I must be doing something right!
Just because there are 'sins that dont know how to play, doesn't mean we all need to be tainted with the same brush!
Guardian of the Light
Well assassins are great its just that most people don't have a clue how to run one properly.
Just that most assassins are wammos that have tried the new melee class.
So guys what should we call these idiot assassins that are just like wammos?
Just that most assassins are wammos that have tried the new melee class.
So guys what should we call these idiot assassins that are just like wammos?
jummeth
@Nominal Fee: With that kind of attitude, personally I'd kick you from my group.
EDIT: reply to
Although having said that, I think 'Sin is a very in-efficient class. Too much down time meaning that your DPS falls. Whereas a good warrior can draw agro away from casters and still provide decent DPS. However If I have a spare slot, I'd bring them along. If they keep dying, just don't concentrate your healing on them, been doing that for ages not for that kind of Wammo.
EDIT: reply to
Although having said that, I think 'Sin is a very in-efficient class. Too much down time meaning that your DPS falls. Whereas a good warrior can draw agro away from casters and still provide decent DPS. However If I have a spare slot, I'd bring them along. If they keep dying, just don't concentrate your healing on them, been doing that for ages not for that kind of Wammo.
BakedMonkey
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Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Well assassins are great its just that most people don't have a clue how to run one properly.
Just that most assassins are wammos that have tried the new melee class. So guys what should we call these idiot assassins that are just like wammos? |
Metanoia
Don Zardeone
There's nothing wrong with wammos.
The term you're looking for is newb or newcomer. If the guy is stupid, then it's noob or idiot.
Us warriors are getting tired of the constant looking down on the wammos. Wammos, WarEles, WarNecros, etc... We're just people too. So what if I decide that enchantments are useless in this mission and that I'll probably be better off with all warriorskills and a res sig... I'd rather bring rebirth.
Assassins are something else. Assassins are like little kids who run up to a monster and slap it really fast in the hopes that it will get hurt and die.
The monster usually laughs and stomps on the kid while the warrior tries to prevent the poor kid from getting killed.
Assassins take away our aggro because they keep running in and out. Most of the time, they only run in and go berzerk.
I noticed that a lot of these assassins claim to be experienced, pro or ninja.
I'd rather have a hench.
The term you're looking for is newb or newcomer. If the guy is stupid, then it's noob or idiot.
Us warriors are getting tired of the constant looking down on the wammos. Wammos, WarEles, WarNecros, etc... We're just people too. So what if I decide that enchantments are useless in this mission and that I'll probably be better off with all warriorskills and a res sig... I'd rather bring rebirth.
Assassins are something else. Assassins are like little kids who run up to a monster and slap it really fast in the hopes that it will get hurt and die.
The monster usually laughs and stomps on the kid while the warrior tries to prevent the poor kid from getting killed.
Assassins take away our aggro because they keep running in and out. Most of the time, they only run in and go berzerk.
I noticed that a lot of these assassins claim to be experienced, pro or ninja.
I'd rather have a hench.
GloryFox
Yes we monks all feel your pain. There is a thread about this called "Assassins the Love is Brewing!"
Terra Xin
And here I was thinking that this was a thread on how much easier it is to kill a monk with a ssin
zakaria
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Originally Posted by Terra Xin
And here I was thinking that this was a thread on how much easier it is to kill a monk with a ssin
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Red
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Originally Posted by Terra Xin
And here I was thinking that this was a thread on how much easier it is to kill a monk with a ssin
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chessyang
i agree.... wanted my 55hp to get further in the game so i did a few missons as a healing monk and i'm so thankfull I had 1 assassin per misson. every time they ran in w/ the warriors/tanks he was the first to drop below 50% life in what? 2 seconds.... but thing will be better as everyone learns how to play that class better.
jummeth
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Originally Posted by Don Zardeone
There's nothing wrong with wammos.
The term you're looking for is newb or newcomer. If the guy is stupid, then it's noob or idiot. Us warriors are getting tired of the constant looking down on the wammos. Wammos, WarEles, WarNecros, etc... We're just people too. So what if I decide that enchantments are useless in this mission and that I'll probably be better off with all warriorskills and a res sig... I'd rather bring rebirth. Assassins are something else. Assassins are like little kids who run up to a monster and slap it really fast in the hopes that it will get hurt and die. The monster usually laughs and stomps on the kid while the warrior tries to prevent the poor kid from getting killed. Assassins take away our aggro because they keep running in and out. Most of the time, they only run in and go berzerk. I noticed that a lot of these assassins claim to be experienced, pro or ninja. I'd rather have a hench. |
Anyway 'wammo' afaik is a derogotory name. W/mo is great for hex and condition removal, which tends to cripple wars. Its just that many players still think, they have 3 pips of health regen they are invulnerable... less so now with all the enchant strips and descrates out there. Sorry going O/T
Having said that, w/mo's are still more efficient than the current 'sin model.
As for Assassins killing monks... Slap guardian and oh he's missed a combo... DPS goes DOWN. Put it this way, I'd kite away from a warrior, I'd be side-stepping like mad vs Ranger and Eles. Spamming Ctrl-Space on the mesmer. So far 'sins... just tank them, they'll bugger off soon when they run out of energy or they get picked up for targeting the party's monk, and they bugger off soon with DP =D
makosi
Infuse Health and Healing Seed are the Canthan monk's best friend as well as Inspired Hex and Revealed Hex for energy. Most assassins do have the wammo mentality right now - especially the ones who use Mending and Healing Hands. At the same time though, I've come across a few good assassins that make effective use of Shadow Arts to keep themselves safe.
Morgana
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| So guys what should we call these idiot assassins that are just like wammos? |
I can't say much about assassins that hasn't been said before.. I like playing as one, but it's true that there are a ton of them and most suck. However, the other day I was in a pug with one other assassin, 3 rits and a healer henchie. Two of the rits ragequit when things began to look bad, but the third rit and the other assassin stayed with me to the bitter end. We kind of failed the mission, though.
Fawn Dul
I have tried a few Assassin combos but still can't seem to like them... And as a W/Mo "Whammo" player myself at times (I stay vulnerable to enchantment removal with the Mending/Breeze 9 pips of regen going) I was hopeing for something comparable with big dps and high manuerverability. This is what I came up with over the weekend:
A/Mo- again I was hopeful for making something more along the lines of my WMo, with staying power with self healing, but quickly found that if you use your energy for healing you aren't doing the damage you should.
A/Ele, A/R- Mixing distance with the close in Assassin skills seem counter-productive.
A/W- Can't really mix daggers with Hammer/Sword/Axe, so didn't really work, might work better as a W/A- haven't tried that yet.
A/Mes- Might work with Energy stealing to keep the dps up, but really don't want to hang around to pound on one mob to long because they start to pound on you...
But over and over I found myself thinking of this Assassin as a "Paper Tank". A melee warrior that is going to get in and make his hits and try to pop away. The problem with this is you draw aggro away from the Warrior (real tank) and die waaay to quick. And I always found that I was missing my energy replenishment that seemed so easy with my WMo with Balthazar's defense, etc.
We will begin to see some successful Assassins come through the ranks, as they begin to get the whole move in, dps, move out before they get whacked idea. And it will take a while until they master it, and I'm sure once they start to master it we will see some truly awesome Assassins. But as a healer, I have yet to see any... It's like they forget to move away and get stuck in a slug match...
A/Mo- again I was hopeful for making something more along the lines of my WMo, with staying power with self healing, but quickly found that if you use your energy for healing you aren't doing the damage you should.
A/Ele, A/R- Mixing distance with the close in Assassin skills seem counter-productive.
A/W- Can't really mix daggers with Hammer/Sword/Axe, so didn't really work, might work better as a W/A- haven't tried that yet.
A/Mes- Might work with Energy stealing to keep the dps up, but really don't want to hang around to pound on one mob to long because they start to pound on you...
But over and over I found myself thinking of this Assassin as a "Paper Tank". A melee warrior that is going to get in and make his hits and try to pop away. The problem with this is you draw aggro away from the Warrior (real tank) and die waaay to quick. And I always found that I was missing my energy replenishment that seemed so easy with my WMo with Balthazar's defense, etc.
We will begin to see some successful Assassins come through the ranks, as they begin to get the whole move in, dps, move out before they get whacked idea. And it will take a while until they master it, and I'm sure once they start to master it we will see some truly awesome Assassins. But as a healer, I have yet to see any... It's like they forget to move away and get stuck in a slug match...
GloryFox
Assmos does not work real well. Besides I see just as many bad Assme or Assnec's as I do Assmo's. How about Assex?
Viruzzz
assassins can be very nice tanks. they have a lot of usefull evade stances.
my guild leader got the survivor title on his assassin with mostly henchmen in the party, he later died because of an accident with lag, but he did make it to lvl 20
my guild leader got the survivor title on his assassin with mostly henchmen in the party, he later died because of an accident with lag, but he did make it to lvl 20
Astraea Zopyros
I understand the general dislike for Assassins. They can be very difficult to heal at times, and certainly any more than 1-2 per team is very difficult to manage. However, if all the monks completely refuse to allow Assassins on their teams, the Assassins will never get any better. Therefore, I still monk for PuGS with Assassins. However, I will say, my limit is 2. Just as a team full of Warriors, Elementalists, Monks, etc., will probably not work out, neither will a team full of Assassins. That is the biggest issue currently--not that Assassins are bad, and die often (because any class played poorly will die often). The biggest problem is that so many teams are composed of overwhelming numbers of them. Balance in a team is very important. Just like a team of squishies needs their big, strong warriors to help protect them, a team of Assassins really needs some help as well.
If we all hate the Assassins, they'll never get any better. Give them a chance.
~Astraea
If we all hate the Assassins, they'll never get any better. Give them a chance.
~Astraea
MelechRic
I was doing Arborstone yesterday on my necro and I only ran into one assassin who was worth a damn. This guy was awesome and killed every caster (myself included) that he could get close to. Fortunately I was on my blood spiker so I made sure to nail him before he could get up close.
The guy could put mutliple conditions on you so fast it was amazing. Even w/ plague touch I was dead in around 5-7 seconds. Very nice and I sent him a PM telling him so. People like that should be encouraged to keep playing the Assassin class because ultimately they will be its ambassadors after all the hyperactive 12 year olds give up.
The guy could put mutliple conditions on you so fast it was amazing. Even w/ plague touch I was dead in around 5-7 seconds. Very nice and I sent him a PM telling him so. People like that should be encouraged to keep playing the Assassin class because ultimately they will be its ambassadors after all the hyperactive 12 year olds give up.
Sekkira
As a healer/prot (depending on what I feel like playing at the time), I don't really mind if Assassins die a lot, as long as they do a bit of damage before kicking the bucket. They're not a waste of my energy, they tend to die before I even get a heal off on them so I usually just focus on the rest of the team if that Assassin is taking heavy damage.
Sure if they're right next to me because of recall and taking heavy damage, I'd attempt to heal them before kiting away so when they drop I'm not next.
Playing a healer is fun in Cantha.
Sure if they're right next to me because of recall and taking heavy damage, I'd attempt to heal them before kiting away so when they drop I'm not next.
Playing a healer is fun in Cantha.
Winterclaw
Assassins tend to be a little on the fragile side, but not as bad as the casters. Sassies' biggest problem is unlike rangers, they are fighting up close and personal, and unlike warriors, they don't have +20AL versus physical. I can usually keep them alive at first, but once they have any sort of DP, it gets a lot tougher to keep them from getting even more.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Sekkira
As a healer/prot (depending on what I feel like playing at the time), I don't really mind if Assassins die a lot, as long as they do a bit of damage before kicking the bucket. They're not a waste of my energy, they tend to die before I even get a heal off on them so I usually just focus on the rest of the team if that Assassin is taking heavy damage.
Sure if they're right next to me because of recall and taking heavy damage, I'd attempt to heal them before kiting away so when they drop I'm not next. Playing a healer is fun in Cantha. |
Age
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Originally Posted by Metanoia
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Sekkira
No problems with it at all, Monks should be in the back line and it's the best place to retreat to after letting off your combo.
Markaedw
I prefer it, I make my brother use a recall spell any time I monk with his asn. To me an ASN's job is to jump in spike the guy and jump out before the guy has a chance to attack back.
Lord Iowerth
As both a monk, and a recent assassin player, I can understand both sides of the issue ...
But lets concentrate on the problem: it's the playstyle (or should I say, the percieved playstyle) of the assassin that most don't understand. Let me explain:
Assassins are, as you would assume from their name, quite excellent at short bursts of very high DPS and condition stacking ... but lack the energy pool and AL to withstand a sustained battle. Your job as an assassin is not an easy one, but an important one nonetheless: let the tank of the group draw aggro, while you identify the most dangerous mob you're facing (enemy monk, enemy mesmer, etc) whichever is true for your current situation ... shadow step, sprint, or kite around the main aggro and take out your target with chained attacks, then fall back to the caster-line, regen, repeat. Assassins have +4 regen for a reason, you know ... a caster secondary suits the assassin well, as they can use hexes/spells to slow, blind, or otherwise deteriorate a target before moving in for the melee attacks.
I would recommend anyone who wants to play an Assassin well to play through a caster class or two, and maybe even a ranger, before advertising they are "experienced"
Also, Nightstalkers (I believe this is the one) has a +15AL while attacking benefit, and works significantly better at keeping you alive than +health valkyrie's or any of the other armors.
just my 2 cents
But lets concentrate on the problem: it's the playstyle (or should I say, the percieved playstyle) of the assassin that most don't understand. Let me explain:
Assassins are, as you would assume from their name, quite excellent at short bursts of very high DPS and condition stacking ... but lack the energy pool and AL to withstand a sustained battle. Your job as an assassin is not an easy one, but an important one nonetheless: let the tank of the group draw aggro, while you identify the most dangerous mob you're facing (enemy monk, enemy mesmer, etc) whichever is true for your current situation ... shadow step, sprint, or kite around the main aggro and take out your target with chained attacks, then fall back to the caster-line, regen, repeat. Assassins have +4 regen for a reason, you know ... a caster secondary suits the assassin well, as they can use hexes/spells to slow, blind, or otherwise deteriorate a target before moving in for the melee attacks.
I would recommend anyone who wants to play an Assassin well to play through a caster class or two, and maybe even a ranger, before advertising they are "experienced"
Also, Nightstalkers (I believe this is the one) has a +15AL while attacking benefit, and works significantly better at keeping you alive than +health valkyrie's or any of the other armors.
just my 2 cents
hellboy909
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Originally Posted by Markaedw
To me an ASN's job is to jump in spike the guy and jump out before the guy has a chance to attack back.
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Mandy Memory
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Originally Posted by Nominal_Fee
Oh my, oh my, you are doing it all wrong ! Just send a nice "kick all assassins or I leave" to your leader when joining. Guess who would he rather have on his party...
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Lol I like the assassins, but I play a MM...so I get an extra minion AND soul reaping energy. They are the saccers that dont even try.
Guardian of the Light
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
Assmos does not work real well. Besides I see just as many bad Assme or Assnec's as I do Assmo's. How about Assex?
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By the way Wammo was a term to decribe the dumb W/Mo the other kind of W/Mo is know as a W/Mo.
Lepton CFd
I have much the same problem as Fawn Dul--I've played as a healer monk for quite a while in both PvP and PvE. I consider myself quite a good monk, I've never had any complaints against me, except those times when a wammo goes and pulls the entire map and dies and says LIEK WTF OMFG Y DIDNT U HEAL ME U N00B OMFG. However, there does seem to be too many Assassins that don't know to play their class properly. They just click an enemy, start attacking it, use some +dmg skills, and that's all they do. That is NOT how you play an Assassin >_< If you absolutely desire to do that, at least be an A/W and use warrior stances or something so you have more armor (though I'm not sure if that'd be good in terms of energy shortages). Anyways, back to my point, I find myself concentrating way too much on the Assassin(s) in my party, and spending about 60% of my energy on just one Assassin alone. If Word of Healing didn't exist, I'm not sure if it'd be possible to heal some of these less-experienced Assassins.
However, I must admit, I have been in groups with EXPERIENCED Assassin who killed quickly and rarely needed healing. Very pleasing =)
However, I must admit, I have been in groups with EXPERIENCED Assassin who killed quickly and rarely needed healing. Very pleasing =)
Beau Nolan
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Originally Posted by Fawn Dul
...A/Mo- again I was hopeful for making something more along the lines of my WMo, with staying power with self healing, but quickly found that if you use your energy for healing you aren't doing the damage you should.
A/Ele, A/R- Mixing distance with the close in Assassin skills seem counter-productive. A/W- Can't really mix daggers with Hammer/Sword/Axe, so didn't really work, might work better as a W/A- haven't tried that yet. A/Mes- Might work with Energy stealing to keep the dps up, but really don't want to hang around to pound on one mob to long because they start to pound on you... |
UndeadRoadkill
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Originally Posted by Fawn Dul
A/W- Can't really mix daggers with Hammer/Sword/Axe, so didn't really work |
felinette
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Originally Posted by Lepton CFd
I consider myself quite a good monk, I've never had any complaints against me, except those times when a wammo goes and pulls the entire map and dies and says LIEK WTF OMFG Y DIDNT U HEAL ME U N00B OMFG.
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As far as assassins go, I recently created one, and after reading all the posts here, expected to die a lot, but so far I'm more than halfway to the survivor title and have exclusively henched. I doubt I'll get the title because I know there are some tough areas and quests coming up, but she's made it further without dying than my other characters have.
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| However, there does seem to be too many Assassins that don't know to play their class properly. They just click an enemy, start attacking it, use some +dmg skills, and that's all they do. |
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
Assmos does not work real well. Besides I see just as many bad Assme or Assnec's as I do Assmo's. How about Assex?
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The only problem with assassins is that many good players shy away from the class (thinking it requires too many defensive skillslots), so there are no people to create builds for the morons to use. Maybe if the noobier players had a model to go by, they would do better (even though Assassins are not nearly as idiot-proof with ANY skillbuild as a generic warrior build is).
I have literally seen assassins running at the front of the group, and then teleporting across the aggro circle to the enemy, putting themselves into a situation where even a Wammo probably wouldn't make it.
Matsumi
I've played with some assassins as a monk, but I just heal them differently. Some things that come to mind are vigorous spirit, healing seed, healing hands, etc. Since it's a new profession, you sort of have to adapt to their playing style a little bit more. VS works great on warriors too, unless they use a hammer. If you heal any type of player too much, they start to think they can get away with more. But when the healing stops due to energy consumption, that's when they get mad, because you spoiled them before. If you don't spoil them to begin with, they start looking more at what they're doing, hopefully.
UndeadRoadkill
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Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer
The only problem with assassins is that many good players shy away from the class (thinking it requires too many defensive skillslots), so there are no people to create builds for the morons to use. Maybe if the noobier players had a model to go by, they would do better (even though Assassins are not nearly as idiot-proof with ANY skillbuild as a generic warrior build is).
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