Online Sit-Down Dev Chat - more thoughts

((so sorry, the search function is down again--and I don't know what I'd search for, to be honest. "Chat"? As if I won't get 1,932,492,564.3 entries for that term))

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To Guild Wars,

In the last letter of things no one wants to read about, I got some things off my chest. It was nice to be able to get some of those things out in the open, ya know; being able to share it with you without either of us stooping to insults or shouting. Even though we haven't talked about it directly, I have faith that you read over it.

So. About some of the things we talked about. Look, I know you're working hard to change some things, and that you even share my pain in some instances. It's really encouraging to hear you come out and talk about some of these things, responding to other thoughts and all.

However, I can't say that the lines of communication are fully open yet, though. I mean, you know that people often feel upset and confused and hurt and frustrated and betrayed over a lack of communciation. We come to expect one thing and, when we get another that is suddenly different... well, it's not always pleasant. Don't get me wrong, surprises can be quite pleasant--I really like my little companion. Every time I look at him, I know that you were thinking about me. I take him with me everywhere (despite the room he takes up in my backpack!) and always display him.

At the same time, such things are fine and all... but, I don't know if one positive cancels out one negative, ya know? It'd be like if I spilled wine all over your new dress and then bought you a new set of dishes. New dishes are fine and all, but you're still down one dress. Whenever the topic comes up, I feel like it's avoided or given minimal attention. And, somtimes I feel like your excuses... well, does this appear like the coordinated strategy of squads? Really?

I think letters are fine and all, but... I think it's time we have a talk. And, I don't mean those brief interludes downtown where each we say two-three sentences about something and move on, until the conversation degenerates into dancing. ((I've always loved your conga lines. Nobody moves like you do--or runs smack into walls either! ^_^))

No, I really think we need to sit down and talk sometime. You promised this relationship was going to let us have input and such... well, I think in order for any communication to be effective, it has to be two-way. Otherwise, doesn't this only discourage the more thoughtful from speaking out? At the minimal attention given to some concerns makes me feel like I'm getting the brush off, ya know? Look, I know you're still working on things--a lot of them--but at the same time, we don't have any idea if those Things Being Worked On include some of the most glaring problems. I feel like you're focusing on the proverbial speck in the eye when there's a two-by-four staring us right in the face; an elephant in the room, so to speak. And the only reaction out of you is that you comment absentmindedly that the peanuts are missing.

Let's just sit down and talk about some of these things, eh? We're seperated by distance, but can't we have some sort of online meeting? There are some good programs that could facilitate such a meeting. We could even talk in front of other concerned parties without them actually cutting in. I know I'm really asking you to put yourself out in the open here, to be vulnerable... it's something that can be scary and, if handled poorly, can be disasterous for everyone.

But, I have faith that we can keep it civil... and I really think that it will be productive. If you're worried about how it might go, why not invite a few of our friends to join in, too? Even if your responses are that you honestly don't know about something yet, or that you are actually wrestling and having internal debates about that very issue, it would be satisfying just to know that you're looking at it. Moreover, even if you give the unpleasant answer that you "have no intentions of changing this", at least we'll know to stop worrying about it, ya know?

I'm not entirely sure I expect you to accept this offer... I mean, it's rather novel, and completely against the trend of Western Culture, which is to be as secretive as possible. "Trade Secrets" are fiercely protected against a force so large and powerful it has its own name: Corporate Espionage. But, that's not what this is about, right? This is about you making decisions about what you think will work best. Why not come out and say how you came to that decisions, or if you can be convinced to backtrack or come to a third solution?

Look, I'll understand if you're unwilling to do this now, but... can you imagine the message it would send? Mutual trust and willingness to cooperate at its utmost. I can think of others who would kill to have the level of respect you would achieve.

Just, think about it, ok?

Signed,
Daniel Highwind [MEEP] Mo/Me
~ Redly ~

Wow. Yet another touching concise letter to the devs. Bravo and /signed

I do think Anet is one of the most "in touch" with the gamming community then any other game I've seen. How receptive are other games, I throw out Final Fantasy XI for example.

It boils down to this. Anet dev's have a vision of there game that is Dev. They are the most in touch with there users that I've ever seen. They take public response seriously from what I've seen. At times, the dev will do things for the grand vision of the game that players may not like or they will change a certain aspect in which a players only play that one aspect so for them Anet has "messed" with there entire world.

To be honest too much "openness" can kill them. Gaile tip toes around topics because it's her job, but as a relations manager goes, (and alex), they been far more open then any other game I've seen.

If say we have a open thread of list of questions from the fans, then have the mods compile the list and do the interview. It cuts down the extreme I hate you and the extreme I love you people.
Say they start leaking the not yet done c3, we will have people screaming about OMG this sucks, and blah blah (and there not done or x choice is not even there final choic). I've also noticed that via interview (web , radio) they have given a ton of information that most players don't read. It also shows the mindset of the developers.

I would think if an effort of fan driven here is a list of questions, please respond would be more of a good choice and they do respond).

I am sooo sorry love... I got to that part, nearly fell out of my chair with laughter and missed the whole rest of it! But what I saw before the peanuts was beautiful. I am so glad I married someone as articulate as you -_-

But your idea for mIRC may not be possible... could you imagine the crash for overload >_>
Granted I think many of the fanboys/gals who just want to offer the devs gold and trinkets such as Dr. Pepper could easily be weeded out this way tho, as I doubt many of them would stop their gameplay to boot up mIRC... Hmm ...

and yes Dragons are nice and such and thank you for taking that screen shot like I asked -_- But I wish you had screen shotted local chat of all the leavers as well. *thumbs up* on another MEEPERIFIC post!



/Lady Eviance [MEEP]
Ranger

/signed

I remember back in the betas we actually had feedback. Many of the good suggestions were read over, we knew that, we saw the presense of the devs, both in game and on the forums, and at least a few of those suggestions were implemented. Then Prophesies came out, and it was changed from what we were all expecting, and dev feedback started slowing. still, the effort was made.

what ever happened to that weekly letter that gaile started? the one where each week, questions were collected from one of the popular guild wars forums, answered, and posted on the guild wars site every friday? True, most of the questions were not what the community wanted answered (whether it was actually common knowledge that was being confirmed, or repeat questions from previous weeks), but at least it was an attempt.

That didnt last long, did it? but they are bringing in something new now. state of the game letters, except... they are written by players, and dont answer what we want to know. maybe we'll luck out and the devs will read one that clearly states the problems. doubt they'd post it though, they dont seem to care about the other things.

and dev sightings have dropped dramatically as well, and when they do show, they almost never answer the questions asked, or always even stay on topic

Bring back the communication ANet, theres far more to gain than to lose by it.

A thoughtful idea, and it's up aNet to decide if it goes live.

However, I agree with EternalTempest, too much "openness" can kill them... and us.

Why? Because they are experts on balancing the game, and we are experts on asking the opposite

/signed

I posted something like this, in so many less elegant words, ealier today.

I don't necessarily want a live chat, or whatever, but simply a few answers to some more serious questions we've all been asking.

Maybe we should ask this in all CAPS and STARS at Gaile's next online gathering. >_>

/signed

I love this game, and yes, I think that many of the issues with this game could be completely resolved if we could have a sit-down talk with some of the Devs.

Anet does listen to their customers better than any other company, and they are damn good at communicating back via Gaile or Alex or Frog. Few, if any other company does that at all, let alone as well.

But a handful of "changes" over the past year have caused some genuine discord. Just a piece of advice: If Anet had made an effort to inform the community that a certain major change was coming and asked the community for their thoughts then things would have gone much smoother.

Currently, when major changes occur, they are completely out of the blue with no warning, and no dialog whatsoever, before or after.

#1) Big changes + No communication = Traumatized players, especially with PvE players.

#2) NEVER EVER introduce new content at the same time as a Nerf! You're trying to sell the new content, so don't club us over the head and wonder why were not eating it up.

While my guild was out in Cantha for the Day of the Tengu, I was in Kryta reworking my MM builds. The builds I ran just wouldn't work at all anymore, so before I enjoyed Factions, I had to deal with getting blindsided. I'm sure everyone can agree that that was not the intended result of Factions.

More communication, definately signed.

Interesting idea...

/signed... yet another good post, i would love to see this 1 on 1 conv.

In a way truer words were never spoken - But I have seen some excellent ideas that wouldn't hurt anything - I have seen others that while are good, have their flaws....

In essence we are all kinda upset that we were not told more clearly of the changes that would occur... Change is good but like someone else has said, a club upside the head is bad -_- I feel like I have been clubbed to death ;_;


(Without further spamming of this thread by me - I agree with that koneko, but no communication can do the same thing... We are not going to have all the answers and neither or they, our suggestions range from utter crap to OMG WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT! I know that they listen to some of the ideas but I am also aware that sometimes they miss the bigger picture... That's what bugs me.... I mean in Redly's last thread I was glad that Gaile had been by and read it, and she responded, but not in mention to the OP, but to me for calling her out on the Tengu thing... Maybe like other people who read his post she just didn't get it... And yet more and more often I ponder if someone clued her in to my exact post and she never really read the thread.... I cannot say for sure as she didn't really have a whole lot to say to me as far as the PM went... Maybe we will never know *shrugs*)

"The perils of designing software by community process"

I find it somehow relevant for some reason, especially toward the end: "The wisdom of crowds only works in situations where there are clear right and wrong answers. If you try to apply it to a design problem, where there are many entirely different right answers, then you end up with a wrong answer. Always."

/signed

This is, quite possibly, the most articulate post I have read on this site, or any site for that matter. I agree with you 100% on the mess 12v12 has turned into and their relucatance to change it. I can't help but think they're already aware o the issues and may be stalling/relucatant to make more changes.

Anyway, I'd just like to say that this post (and your others is appears too) is the golden egg in the pile of dolyak dung that comprises most game suggestions/complaints.

I can generally agree with you, ETempest. It is because ANet appears to want to be the best in this way, that I am willing to put this suggestion forward to them. I do so, because I think there is a chance--however miniscule--that they will listen.

You people must frequent crappy sites... oh wait.

I prefer Anets current model. Why? Because, unlike the majority of people on fan sites, they know their asses from their elbows. Stupid toilet paper stuck to my arm...

Besides, its not like the community has any clear idea what the hell it wants. There are as many locked gate lovers as there are locked gate haters.

Also, why should Anet care what a small subset of their customer base has to say? Most of the players out there don't frequent these mind dump threads...

<vitriol spewed>

HE wasn't asking them to become an Open Source group. HE only wants a communication channel that doesn't involve Gaile's PR babble.

According to Gaile, they read the forums all the time. But as for interactions, something or someone either in Anet or NC Soft changed that dramatically.

Not to mention that there is a big ass Index of really good ideas that I bet that they have hardly touched.

What is this? After sifting through the rambling post all I've pulled from it is that you want some kind of personal meeting with the game's developers. So this little meeting will be you and maybe some of your friends, and you justify the benefits by claiming to speak for the entire gw community accurately. Am I getting this right?

Do you really think that Anet doesn't have developers and/or personal contacts with players in the game? You think Gaile Gray coming to Lions Arch is the only contact game developers have with the gaming community? I dont see how this will improve anything whatsoever. In fact, I'd rather see developers actually working on the game than being forced into online meetings with random players.

Beyond a complaint, you included next to nothing on a way to actually implement this. In fact, I'm partially guessing at the suggestion itself hiddin somewhere in the post, making this one step above a rant. I'm assuming you are speaking in terms of yourself when you talk about a meeting with the devs and not suggesting that all players have the same opportunity. This would, of course, be rediculous and a horrible waste of time. Even if its a hand picked group of players, as opposed to you personally, then how are these players picked? Anyway, using complete sentences doesn't justify the lack of actual content in the post.

Not to be a dick, but I really dont see a point to what you suggest, and while your writing style can be entertaining, its not what I come here for.

Did you read the latter part of my post? You missed the point that I was trying (and failed) to make. I wasn't saying anything about going open source - I was responding to ET's comment that it's dangerous to listen to your userbase and to eventually give in to their demands (observer mode, purchasable character slots, +character slots with pre-order access, etc.)

Relevance of the quote: there likely is a design issue (12v12, elite missions). There is a crowd (GWG, GWO, GH, Photics). There have been many suggestions put out as to how to fix the design issues. Backing down from what was originally intended, giving in to demands, whatever - implementing one of the many suggestions will ultimately tick off another segment of your userbase. Wouldn't it be better, then, to keep things the way that the developers intended?

Or something.

koneko I feel like your avatar >_>

>_< I don't see how it's so easy for people to miss the big picture... Well I guess I do - and there was a time when it was obvious that they cared and granted they probably still do care - we just aren't hearing it as loudly as we once did ;_;

This is all fine and nice, but one of the most efective ways to get your points heard is to either get friendly with an alpha tester or two, or become one. They have much more direct lines of communication. And have much greater chance of being listened to over some random posts in fansite forums.

Hock, your character's name is my pet's name. We were destined to meet. MARRY ME.
.... meanwhile, how would one go about becoming an Alpha Tester? Shall I PM my demand to Gaile and see where that gets me? XD


..... *sigh*
Metaphorical writing. Go read Swift's A Modest Proposal and then let's discuss what a monster he is.

If I told you that the "I" was not really supposed to be me personally, but was more a metaphor for the GW Community at large, would it make things better? I'm not so much interested in a direct line of access for myself, though that would be über-cool. I already had someone PM me, in fact, offering to pass along my questions and concerns to a dev who is their personal friend. I rejected it.

I'm not asking for a backstage pass, people. What I was suggesting was much more public. I could offer several suggestions for who should be involved, but I don't think any of them would impress you, since the very idea seems to be such a failure to you. However, EternalTempest's suggestions about a "fan-driven list of questions" is similar to what I'm putting forth. For example, when fantasy author Terry Goodkind gave a chat for his fans, one or two mods drew part of their material from a list of questions the board members had generated during the days leading up to the chat; and I believe I DID suggest a method of implementing this: IRC. It allows for many people to attend a chat, but only a few to speak. I believe it's how Goodkind did his chat, in fact.

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I apologize for not getting my point across clearly enough. The main goal is not to give myself a leg up, or even that I want a chat all that badly. I think Omega got to the heart of the issue when he said "HE only wants a communication channel that doesn't involve Gaile's PR babble." Honestly, does Gaile really offer us that much material information in Lion's Arch or Kaineng City that we can't get from the main webpage? We got five sentences on the 12v12 battles that have been the cause of so much disappointment among fans, and that was a drastic change from the FPE which was, for many people, THE deciding factor in purchasing the game.

Five.

And from those five, I'll bet you that either none of the devs responsible for the change play monk, or else they were depending on every 4/4 team either having one or being able to avoid the need for one. XD

Please forgive my impatience; I know that they're probably well aware of the discontent... but are they even open right now to fixing it, or do they feel like they accomplished their goals? People are quoting statistics left and right about how many satisfied customers will actually communicate their pleasure, versus how many dissatisfied players will rant and rave--but I am the leader of my guild, and I know full well the ratios in my own guild. It may be a bit arrogant of me, but I can not believe that my guild is too different from your average guild. And I know that most of my guildies--whether they will play this version of 12v12 or not--feel that a diservice has been done to them. Whether or not they have a RIGHT to feel this is up for debate. Yes, Guild Wars is so much better on the customer front than other companies... but when you get right down to it, they've got dissatisfied customers. No amount of logical reasoning will alter that.

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Don't misunderstand me, this is not a rant on 12v12. I'm only using it because I feel it is the most obvious example of what I'm talking about, the easiest to hold to scrutiny. I'd like to see the company move beyond it's shield of PR babble, which consists of whatever the devs are giving their PR manager... and I don't want it for myself. I'd like to see the GWTeam continue on this path they've already chosen, to communicate with their fanbase. I don't expect them to open their decisions to public vote--I don't want them to. But we would not elect a President who promised to do "what is right" without first understanding how he would determine what is right, or what she thinks about certain scenarios. Likewise, one can scarce expect people to (continue to) spend money on something which may or may not be what they are led to believe it is, for reasons unknown. Transparency ftw.

I didn't miss the point, I just chose to target a specific part of a comparison that you made. The way that OSSC is also the reason why OSS has grown so much.

The Developers' Intentions in Guild Wars currently are the reasons why there are so many suggestions. The same goes in OSS. When someone like a proprietary software maker fails to listen, a community of fed up users grows and grows. Eventually some of them are programmers who just so happened to take charge and create their own software. That software grows and becomes popular enough to start to topple their proprietary shadows.

Now IF only that company would have listened to users more, they wouldn't lose business. Now look at Guild Wars in that situation execpt there is no one proprietary company, But many of them. And some of them rather than offer a PR guy to smooth the peanut butter when it gets lumpy, actually listens to fans and implement most requested features, options, and fixes. But notice that Designers' hands aren't tied either.

Long story short, there is a line between too much interaction and not enough interaction. But choosing the latter will hurt you whether you intended it to or not. So its best to walk the line.

Wow... dang, Redly. Good leter.

I guess I'm one of the faceless masses. I didn't order the CE, and I'm not yet sure enough of my connection to try anything PvP related. But, there is something that bugs me.

During the FPE, the thing was a free-for-all. That just sounded fun, and I tried it a couple times. I swiftly discovered that I sucked badly at it, and instead decided to focus my efforts on other things during that limited time. I had seen the 12 v 12, and it was interesting. Something I could do just for the heck of it, like I used to do RA.

Now, I've found out that it requires forming a team (or a squad, as they are so called) of 4. I've been playing this game for over a year now. You dont have to explain to me that a party of four in a highly competative environment is going to cause some players to find it a little hard to find a group. Being that I play a Rager (one that has no TS, no Microphone, and can't interrupt because I played with my sword too long), I'm going to have almost no chance at ALL of playing this feature. And, if I do play, my team is more than likely going to be so focused on, not having fun, but WINNING at all costs, I may play it once to see what it's all about, and then never touch it again. I hate that stuff with a passion. It's always more fun to just HAVE fun. With this setup, you'd be more likely to end up tearing your hair out because of the stress and high demends, higher than if you were solo entering.

Basically, the 12 v 12 strikes me as another Hero's Ascent. A place where the inexperienced and the undesireable classes have little to no chance of playing, because the experienced and the desireable classes look down on everyone else. For me, Hero's Ascent is untouchable, mostly because of the high stress environment caused by players that have no goal beyond "Win". That's what this new setup of 12 v 12 reminds me of. That's not fun at all.

And, that's the real tragedy. It's a game that's not fun.

I apologize for this post; but I think it important to point out that I have edited my post (it's two posts up, see it?), and it's a rather large edit. Sorry for sneaking it in there.

heheh you should try doing Halls with us... Yeah we get down if we are on a constant losing streak but if we continue to have fun we usually get further than if we are running a certain strict setup. We play to win but we don't live to win, ya know? It's nice to have a guild that is willing to take you into places like HA and play with ya (even if you have no skills, like some of our guildies). It's a game it's meant to be fun!

I used to do pug Tombs back when it was HoH just to fill the time in the day... I found some great groups (getting a 10% bonus is just the best thing evar!). I also found wierd groups that kicked me for not following the called target when I was the ONLY one other than the caller on that target -_-

Then it REALLY started getting rank obsessed and I stopped doing the PUG thing cause it was just too hard. I am almost a rank 2 ~YIPPIE~ but I will never get any higher without my guildies by my side and I am happy about that!

(If you think his letters are cool you should read his poetry and short stories -_- I don't know where he gets it from >_<)

I believe you people are a lil too full of yourself. You paid 50 bucks for a game, yet you demand like if you paid 500 dollars for it. Really, out of thousands and thousands of players what makes you special just because you had some problems? Is like in real life. I mean if something goes wrong, would you send a letter to the leader of your country and expect him to respond and "talk" to you. No. You know why? Because then they will have to do it for everyone, which honestly is not possible. You all should be grateful and not complain so much Guild Wars is the type of game it is. I know for a fact of games that you pay for them every month after month and sometimes something goes wrong, and puff, no more games for you and honestly there goes hundreds of dollars down the drain. People pay 50 dollars for games that can be beat in 6 hours or less. If the game suck they don't get even a response from a game producer. You pay 50 dollars for a game that you can easily play for 600+ hours without even getting bored. I think you people should just swallow your complaints and be grateful of what you have and what has been given to you. You want a perfect world, and that's not possible, not even in a game.

What a defeatist. I feel sorry for you.

No, I'm grateful.

I'm not referring to whether or not you had any problems with Factions (VERY MANY people have), I'm referring to your attitude that you shouldn't strive to get what you want.

And call me old-fashioned, but I always thought it was the producer that should feel grateful to the consumer for giving them their money.

Quoted for, if not truth, then at least interest.

~~~~~~~

I said it in my first letter, I said it in this one, and I'll say it again here:

I truly think that the GW Team is one of the (if not TeH) best teams out there. To continue making metaphors, Aku... I understand what you're saying. At the same time, it's considered very rude to tell someone in public about how their breath stinks; but you are expected to say something to your best friend about it. You are, in fact, more blatantly critical of people you can trust, than someone who is disconnected from you.

The fact that I can say these things to Guild Wars, and believe that they are read... that's somethin' else, ya know? So, please don't take my voice as purely negative. I paid for a Collector's Edition, as did my wife and her brother, and we are all playing through the PvE.

But, even if you marry an awesome wife who cooks supremely and brings her share of income to the household... would you settle for the relationship as-is for the rest of the decades you have together, or would you both seek to grow?

I reject stagnation; I choose growth.

Well, a sit down chat with the players isn't all that uncommon. Stratics is known for their IRC chats with the devs and while yes they are moderated, submit questions beforehand, etc. they tend to be quite good. But then again, it depends on the willingness of the developers who participate.

What Gaile Gray does as far as the in-game chats is really unheard of in terms of frequency and length. And the devs are listening, while I'm sure there are unknown restraints on what they can say or do, on what information they can divulge (hey I'm sure there's aspects of the game they are unhappy with but are helpless to change at the current time) they just can't voice their full opinion and agree with us all. So it has to go through approval/mouth piece/PR (you get the point).

I'll send off a note to Gaile, I'll see if they would be willing to do this if we coordinate.

I'm new fashioned and I believe if I'm getting something that's worth more than what I paid for I should be happy.

I completely agree with you about seeking "growth", but I wouldn't ask of her to be perfect, seeing as how I felt in love because of what she was. If the good things surpass the bad ones, I would just be reminded that nothing is perfect and that's what makes life interesting.

Reality is even though I believe it has it's problems I think it's one of the best teams and I know you agree with me like you just said. I just consider it a little unfair to be constantly calling out someone's flaws when clearly we have something that makes us really happy.

Thank you, I would really like to see a more official response to the concerns over alliance/elite missions. There isn't much space to develop detailed points in-game, and Gaile didn't seem to understand us in that last chat session.

So because you haven't had any problems with it, you think that everyone should think and feel the same as you; and if they don't, they are completely unjustified?

It's more than I had expected, so it's really quite an honour. Thank you, sir.

I never said I haven't had any problems, and no; everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I meant that many people and keep in mind I'm not pointing at anyone in particular complain about stuff that when it really comes down to it, they get much more in return. People complained about the delay of the CE and they had all the right to, but if you are a real gamer, you know games get delayed all the time and 90% of those times you just get dissapointed when the game finally arrives. Guild Wars gave people a dragon! for waiting (letting my inner noob kid come out) how freakin 1337 is that? Anyways, people complain about the 12v12 arenas change, but they don't see that the meaning of Guild Wars is in fact strategy and getting better, not going in kamikaze style. People complain that they didn't had time for the special event. But I mean, it wouldn't be special if it didn't had a time limit. I don't hear people complaining to shopping malls when the miss the "black friday" specials.

Im not saying people shouldn't complain. Redly really make a smart and worthy letter, but then again I'm just trying to point out that even when bad things happens, we get much more good things in return. But that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to fight or anything, so I'm done

Ok, yeah, there is whining about things that are tough breaks, and there are complaints made in the hopes of getting a change. There may be some things that they are just still working on, but sometimes they won't know there's a problem unless people tell them.

The OP and the people who signed are aiming for constructive criticism and communication, not a flame session.

Indeed but has it occured to you that their wishes may not be my wishes?

Someone mentioned OSS software development earlier and while it has its successes it also 'enjoys' huge fragmentation exactly because everyone has different wishes, wants, needs and expectations.

Personally I think Anet does quite enough listening to the players, we wont always like/love what they will end up offering us but at the end of the day this is Anet's product and not ours.

Yeah someone came into the 12 v 12 ruined thread and posted how we were all idiots for complaining and such cause no one ever listens.

I explained that we know for a fact that they are reading what we write, it's up to them as to whether they take what we say and run with it or not. But sitting back and not saying anything gets you nowhere.

I will agree and openly admit that I myself tend to lose my cool with people like that in threads. Or heck in any thread where I don't feel like a certain aspect is fair to all... If there is an IRC chat I may or may not be involved... I know it will irk Redly but I will probably stand over his shoulder and read and then pace and then probably do some cussing, but so long as I am not at that keyboard I will have a chance to cool down and think with a more level head than I usually do.
It's been told time and again, how if you email GW with a suggestion or comment they tell you to take it to one of the fansites. GWG is one of the most open ones there is! I saw a poster who came over from another board because she wasn't aloud to speak her mind and got in trouble for it. I see that while GWG tries to keep huge uproars from happening they are the best at letting us speak our minds usually.
While this is a good thing, it's also a bad thing sometimes for the Devs who actually have to come and sift through all of it.
It's a new chapter: check
It's going to have some bugs: check
They cannot make everyone happy: check
We all understand this but when majority is not so happy it gets kinda ugly around here and in GW itself. I understand that they are trying their best, but lack of communication with the fans really messed things up this past round and those of us who have faith in the GW team want to see that something like that doesn't happen in the future.

We want to find new and better ways to get things across and be a part of this growing company - if you care about something you try to make the best that you can out of it, but we all understand that perfection will never be achieved. However that doesn't mean we should just give up and be greatful, not when we know that there is more potential to be had there!

I admit it, I don't like Factions (it's not the bugs) - but I am still playing it because I have a guild with Redly that depends on us. They are friends and family to us and if we can somehow make a change here or there for the better of our family and for the better of others, including GW itself - we are gonna try... I am also still playing because I have faith in the GW team. I have faith that they hear us and will in someway do what they can to make things better for all involved! I hold onto that faith as we await the next chapter as I am sure many others do..

There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve and there is always room for improvement in anything! Ya know one thing that would probably set at least half if not 80% of the angry mob to shut up - A simple statement that says: "We know you want some changes but we need to work out the kinks and bugs to what is already there before we can really think about change. This will take some time but we beg you to be patient and understanding that we do care, but we are doing the best we can as fast as we can."


Shoot that would be enough for me - and yes they have said this in other ways but many have missed it. When they have events or big news or changes in the air - post it on their website.

Inde sweetie is there nothing that can be done for the search button on this bugger? >_> I hate it when my subscriptions pretend to go through only to find out 24hrs later that I was wrong... *sighs* searching for my bids is hard work =P

Anyways that is also a lot of the reason that people miss some of the announcements - they are either in Gaile Gray chat logs (which I didn't find till 3wks of being on this board) or somewhere burried on page 4502750275.6 >_> of one of the 10 forums ya got running in here (which for the normal person on here is easy to figure out, but new people are SoL). More accessable information I guess is what I am looking for.

hmmm anywyas that is all for my rambles it's bedtime.

I think the OP pretty much sums things up. Not about communication, but about the GW community. Give them a hand and they want the whole arm.

Anet do a lot more than most developers in terms of communication. What people want now is some type of interactive chat? What next, a place on the design team for evey fan?

When a question is asked about something, there are 3 possible responses.
1. Yes
2. Maybe
3. No.

Currently, we get 2. What many people (note: many, not all, not most, not everyone, just many) want is 1.

People are upset because we get a lot of 2. So they want more communication. If you got that and the communication was simply, 3., would that make you happy? I'm guessing it would simply create a lot more anger.

Maybe, or "soon, just not right now" are the best ANET can do really. If they say no, people will be upset. If they say 1, but later find out it's not possible, could be delayed etc., then people will be upset.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. So they walk the middle line. The best course of action. Because it allows them to say, we know you want it, but we can't promise anything. Then they can take the time to decide and plan. If they said yes to an idea rather than maybe, the next question would be when, because Yes isn't enough, is it?. Once people get yes, next they will want when. And when they say soon, rather than a definate time, people will get upset about lack of communication, again.

As for areas where people feel a lack of response, remember how many suggestions get posted all the time. It takes a lot to read through. And get answers for. That's someone's time. A paid employees time. Gw has no monthly fees, so it's income is based off of added paid-for content. They have to justify every expense they make and unless reading through and responding to thousands upon thousands of posts is going to increase income sufficiently as to justify the work, it's not going to happen.

And for those questions some feel are "top-of-the-list", you might be asking for an answer where an answer currently does not exist.

I think many people expect a lot from Anet who already give a lot.

But that's just my opinion.

I think it's important to keep this in mind. Michael raises some good points; I've just apparently arrived at a different final answer than he has.

So sorry, but we do not "get a lot of 2". Part of my issue is that we aren't hearing much from the team. Obvious examples include 12v12 and the Elite Missions. Gaile gives us 3 lines of real reasons or defenses, and that's it. 12v12 was altered from FPE, she said, to allow for more tactics--and that was all she said, while recognizing the communication issues. But, did they not see the way teams could come together in the FPE? Or, have they not realized that even with a chat channel for teams in those battles, monks are STILL unable to effectively heal beyond their 4/4 party?

We don't know.

If we got a No answer, at least we'd know that this is how it would remain; or that they intend to fix the chat issues but have no intention of restoring the 12-man party bar.

But, we don't know.

And, in reference to your comment about how they have to KNOW that it's in their best interests to communicate with players...
GG.