Time to fix the ele problem

If your half decent, you wont be getting hit when kiting, and obviously you dont move until you have laid down your 4-6 seconds snare.

They truly are a defensive character, which explains why I transitioned to an elementalist so easily in PvP given that 75+% of my PvP time is spent playing monk. Even though I had never played an elementalist in PvE and had spent quite a bit of time playing warrior, ranger, and mesmer in PvE, my transition to playing an elementalist in GvG/TA went so much smoother than any other class (including monk).

Everytime I see an elementalist in PvP that thinks they are a spiker, I die a little bit. It is just like everytime I see a beastmaster or thumper in PvP that has chosen to bring a bear as their pet.

It doesn't seem like it.

I am curious with all the DPS comparisons how the Ele and Warrior compare against classes whose skills have no impediments. Mesmer chaos damage cannot be blocked with armor. Dark damage dealt by ritualists and necromancers also cannot be blocked with armor. Lightening only has armor penetration benefits. Shadow damage (many nec spells) ignores armor and directly affects target. Life draining skills directily affect target. A new Mesmer non-elite skill does 8 degen, add that to migraine, and the new burden spell with energy regain, and I strongly suspect they become one of the most fearsome classes on the board. (Not that they were inconsequential before - just to Interrupt myself.)

The fact remains that an Ele whose damage is 50-75% evadable in AoE, whose casting time makes them easily interupted on virtually every skill that has any damage dealing potential, whose energy is just a health regen for the enemy or equally eliminated by other skills, and whose casting time makes them little more than damage dealers to the corpses, needs some work.

Fitz

I think the strongest argument that the Elementalists are "underpowered" is that ANet had to TRIPPLE the damage dealt from Elementalist bosses, for them to be a challenge, If the bosses would have done as little damage as normal player elementalist -they would be total pushovers.

Blinding flash is also easily removed with various condition removal, that is both cheap & fast

I also find my Ele(1st char) underpowered. I must also mention in complete fairness that I am playing a pyromancer and that I have little to no experience in the other elements.

The idea I got of an Ele when I first bought the game and read through the manual is that he will be the best damage dealer over range, with low armor, and a warrior will deal slightly less melee damage, with high armor. Sadly this was not true for the Ele.

I really and truelly believe that the Ele is an broken class. So what should I recommend to fix this?

1) I like the idea of extra energy regen pips, for more points in Energy Storage.

2) Another nice idea, add conditions to all spells. Say for instance all fire spells cause burning, lightning spells cause blinding/knockdown(?), earth weakness/knockdown(?) and water slowdown/heal(?). And leave the damage as is. This option might be overpowered but atleast it is an constructive idea.

3) As for the AoE spells, MS and FS AoE should definitely be increased to hit enemies atleast 2-3 times while running away. MS should knockdown as soon as the first meteor animation hits the ground. I feel that to comment on the other elemental branchess' (sp?) AoE spells would be unfair since I have no experience using them.

I would also like to mention that exhaustion is unique to an Ele and I really like it, it adds a kind of authenticity to the Ele. Lastly, I am glad that I am not a ANET Guild Wars skill balancer.

My elementalist build solod the guild hall yesterday, I took out the body guards in less than 5 seconds, its not hard. You have to incorperate the armor bonuses from the other spells like armor of earth and kinetic armor. Keep those spells on and your good for armor, with aura of restoration it even makes your health balance out. I don't go anywhere without aura of restoration. If you don't think then damage output is good, you have to keep the enemies inside the aoe "long casting" spells using something to slow them down.

I think meteor shower needs to be fixed as well - it says for 10 seconds foes are struck for x damage each second, but it certainly does not seem as though they get hit 10 times, unless im misreading something.

also, burning needs to occur on more spells, and it needs to either last longer or have more of an effect

Meteor shower lasts for 9 seconds and knocks foes in the AoE down every three seconds.

thank you for being honest, i actually read your post

For 25 energy... 10 energy immolate does the same thing for a little less time (3 secs) but 41 dmg to start with. But i dont use fire and know their exact damage do i?

ps. Anyone who says ele hexes can be removed easily, why arnt they removed??? Why not just make everything either a domination mesmer, war, monk or channeling rit? Would it be a better game?

Meteor shower doesnt need to be fixed, it needs to be put in that cabinet with aura of restoration and ether renewal. The dead after ascalon cabinet.

Glyph of renewal + meteor does much more effective damage IMO.

Burning does not need to occur in more spells, it just needs to... no you need to see some other ele spells than fire. Fire only helps assassins and wars in close range with inferno and others.

No, you see, that's not what I said. Nice job not directly quoting me on that, btw. A warrior with no skills deals ~2600 damage per minute, depending on his weapon of choice. An elementalist, with a purely offensive skillbar, approaches that number when he has 8-9 pips of energy regeneration.

So... They do have a problem? Did you not just say they didn't?

I've played over 300 hours on my elementalist; it's not a huge number and you probably have more, if you've played one for a year. But I have a decent maths background. A warrior will outdamage an elementalist on a single target. Period. That's what we call a fact.

ok, there is a problem with fire magic. its not a good offensive line compared to just about any other class. Im not sticking up for fire, but for the supporting ele.

ELES are not supposed to be that person doing 500 damage in a hit. Wars do their eviscerate for roughly 200 some for the deep wound. Im not arguing that. Im not arguing fire magic is good and does massive amounts. IMHO fire magic is not worth anything. If everyone thinks MS is amazing, they haven tried some good ele builds before. If they are trying to fix MS, good luck, youll need it.

Eles were created to outdamage anything. They obviously didnt hold this promise to us. The warrior can easily outdamage an ele, and usually quickly. The ele really is an advancing monk and utility, but very valuable none the less. Try playing with a warding spike ele, they can get 100+ AL easily and for a very little cost. Im really serious, just go try and play a warding ele, you migh find it really is a big help to your team, especially if you know what youre doing.

A Gust {E} air/water ele IS the best snare in the game. Try being a war or sin and live through being slowed by 33% half the time and sitting on your butt the other half. Its not fun, especially if the ele coorinates with a monk to stop opposing wars/rangers/sins. If im an ele, i really dont care about other eles on the other team, most of the time they ARE pyros or air eles with MS or no KDs. It doesnt work, btw. They kinda suck.

ps ~ the quote thing isnt working anymore, ive been trying to get it to but it never seems to quote the person anymore?

That's not the issue. We all realize that elementalists can make a decent support class. Not outstanding, but pretty good. There's a dozen or so good team-oriented skills, and if you throw in some other professions' skills *cough*heal party*cough* you can fit together a decent support build.

The problem is that all of the game-universe material says that elementalists are for damage. The manual says it; the trainers say it; common sense says it. You don't learn mastery over the elements in order to conjure up a soft breeze and a gentle spring rain. It's freaking firebombs and earthquakes you're after. If you want to be in a supporting role, you pick a Monk, or to a lesser extent, a Mesmer, Necromancer, or Ritualist.

That's just it... What exactly are they supposed to do? Stand around looking pretty? They already do that. Pop some blinds off? Ward? Yeah, options, but they shouldn't be the only ones. ANet can do two things with elementalists: They can either stop calling them damage dealers in the first place, or they can actually allow them to live up to that reputation.

Even you can see the problem. You said, "fire magic is not worth anything." Direct quote. Surely you can see that, in a game like Guild Wars, there should not be inviable attribute lines. Fire magic ought to have it's place, along with anything else. Or should Hammer Mastery be useless, too? How about Channeling? Or Domination Magic?

I didn't seem to have any problems with it...

One of the consistant problems I observe is the question of ''ought to.'' Some here quote the box/book saying the Ele ought to be highest damage dealer because this is what they wrote. Nice legalism, I would even buy it as valid. Some say the Ele is only a support class and imply it should have no other function. Some are quoting mathematics to prove their point, which again I buy. However, what is completely overlooked is the entertainment value of the game is conceptual, not factual.

Elementalists are refered to as mages, wizards, and nukers. If what they do does not meat the expectation then they are a broken class. If, as someone said (and I have no link to verify this with) ANet did have to triple the damage of Ele bosses for them to be a challenge, then they should have done the same for players, or at least raised it 150% to 200%. If the class is not capable of being a mage, wizard, and/or nuker for the casual player - then it breaks the expectation and is broke. Thus it needs fixing.

Fitz

Thanks for that, it made me feel all good inside.

Yes, Anet needs to just up the damage A LOT on fire skills if they would even be considered by me, but then everyone would complain about air magic skills and how they should do more damage since they are the original spike. But air already does enough with KDs and (Blinding Flash, Lightning Javelin) etc.

I like hammer mastery, btw. Same with Beast Mastery. I guess i just got the short end.

I think the opinion that the elementalist could at least "play" a tank and get heavy armor bonus, ad focu on assisting the rest with some stationary wards is kinda weak.

First of all movement is key to victory read "Kiting and Damage Mitigation Through Movement",
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3041944

thus suggestions that the Elementalist should put up wards that isnt moving, or use armor spells that hinders the Elementalists own movement is IMO null.

Second, Even if the armor is great, since The Elementalist has low hitpoints, degens penetrating it, will quickly kill the Elementalist

Third, In a Random team, Honestly Dont you desire a Monk or Warrior in the team instead, of an Elementalist?

Their usefullness would be much more appreciated as warders if the wards that Elementalist put up had a much larger area, similar to that of spirits,
As it stands now they have to rely on their secondary proffesion (often monk), and (or) do damage for weakening( not killing )foes for others to kill.

Every class has base 480 health. Misconceptions...

You have a good point about Kiting and moving hindering, Try frost armor and fire resistant ele armor?

ps ~ that thread you posted should be crammed in any kiters head by... the time they start. its basic info.

Either that was sarcastic, in which case I apologize, or it wasn't, in which case I don't give a sh*t.

Blinding flash is great, when there's no condition removal around. Lightning Javelin? So-so. It misses a lot (though it's not as bad as Lightning Orb), it does pretty crummy damage, and it almost never triggers the "if target foe is attacking" clause (in my experience). Stuff like Gale or Shock is pretty decent for knockdowns. But it all comes back to damage. Powerful mages don't mess around with pretty lights and tripwires. A tad cliched, perhaps, but true.

Wait, you thought... ? I wasn't dissing those attributes at all. I was just pointing out that every other class can throw together a successful build that revolves around a single attribute line. Elementalists have more trouble doing that - especially if they try to deal damage. Hammers are wonderful things. Beat Mastery is quite well conceptualized, although the implementation could use a little work - it is a pain to have to count on unreliable triggers for pet attacks. Especially ones like Bestial Pounce or Disrupting Lunge.

Ok, so I read your Nuking Holy Bible and found pretty much exactly what I figured I would find (people agreeing that Warriors do more damage but split on whether or not Elementalists are "broken"...sound familiar?) and exactly what I've heard time and time again from Elementalists who want to be ranged Warriors on crystal meth.

I said it above and I'll say it again, a Warrior can do one thing. Damage. They have little to no energy or regen so other support style builds are impractical. They have no ranged attacks that they can perform consistantly aside from Gale and that is mainly used to get them close enough to start doing damage or to interrupt the anti-damage of their target. In the end, all they are is a point blank monster that has only 1 purpose in this game....pressure the enemy and make them use up their energy by preventing them from doing what they do better than any other class. Damage.

What would the purpose of a Warrior be if someone else could do damage just as well from a distance while simultaneously able to do a whole mess of other things? Reference Ether Renewal Smiter, Air Spiker, Heal Party Spammer, etc. vs. the single Warrior build in multiple forms: Damage Dealer.

Why should Elementalists, in addition to the utilitarian aspect of their class, be able to outdamage every other class? It makes no sense to say they should. Would you prefer they remove all the hexes, all the wards, all the utility and just buff their damage so they are ranged Warriors? Ridiculous! Come on, I could just as easily start a Mesmer thread that says "Rangers can interrupt more consistantly and cheaply with Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, and Punishing Shot than we can with our 15 energy interrupts...so fix our class!" but it would be just as closed-minded and unilateral a view as saying that the Elementalist class is "broken" just because it can't do more damage than every other class in the game.

I won't say reading that thread was a waste of time. It was actually quite interesting, but to assume that every other point of view is moot and unenlightened (as you were doing) just because they aren't making the same comparison you obviously are (straight up damage vs. damage) is idiotic.

I maintain my opinion that Elementalists are NOT broken just because they cannot outdamage a Warrior without running out of energy.
I maintain my opinion that they are useful in ways other classes could never be and are, therefore, a very viable class to play.
I maintain my opinion that people who focus entirely on nuking and expect/demand that they be the best damage dealers on the planet are missing what it really is to be an Elementalist.

Prove to me that Elementalists are not up to par with other classes in ways other than JUST DAMAGE and I will reconsider those opinions. As it is, when I PvP with one, I sure as hell don't feel like a 5th wheel or a liability better replaced by another class.

If elementalists are going to be the damage dealers that their skills are set up for them to be, then they had better be able to do more damage than a warrior given their inferior survivability.

Well, the point would be that the warrior is still harder to kill, and harder to shut down than that other class. I guess if you wanted to give elementalists 80+20 vs physical armour, then their current lack of damage capability would make more sense.

Maybe the fact that all but a doezn or so elementalist skills are supposed to cause damage should be enough of a reason? Maybe the fact that the best use you can find for an E/? is ether renewal powered heal party spam should be enough of a clue that something is wrong?

I would think that most people would prefer that the damage be buffed so that the damage is at least competitive, and hopefully matches the advertised state of being greater than every other class. Otherwise there's absolutely no point in the vast majority of elementalist skills. I'd think that many elementalist players would also be far happier if the the half dozen useful utility spells weren't used as a justification for nerfing their damage.

Would you care to point out some official documentation that states that elementalists are supposed to be utility and support classes?

That's a nice opinion. Everybody has an opinion, guess what else everybody has.

How are elementalists useful in ways that other classes could never be? Why would you play an E/? instead of a M/E, N/E, or Mo/E if all you wanted was the utility spells?

Why should I bother to deal with you moving the goalposts? Why don't you give a real reason to play an elementalist as a primary profession, since apparently you are happy with actually being a monk, rather than a damage dealer.

Simple -- Ether Prodigy. It is the single best energy management skill in the game and is entirely useless to ele secondaries. If this skill was removed from the game or significantly weakened, then you honestly would never see elementalist primaries in PvP. This would be the final blow to the class.

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/pr.../elementalist/

Only one false statement on that page and it's only false if you count a Deep Wound as damage and not a condition. Nowhere in there does it say "Elementalists are the best damage dealers in the game". The description A.Net provides sounds like a combination of utility and damage to me.

As for the rest, it will have to wait 'till Tuesday since I'm off work Have a good 3-day weekend

ps - Mo/N was only my first (of 7 total) character. Guru doesn't allow you to list more than one...

Elementalist isn't the only class that plays very differently in PvP than PvE. In PvE, necros are mainly about MMing and SS, neither of which is nearly as powerful in PvP. Tactics rocks in PvE and Hammer sux; in PvP it evidently is the other way around. Barrage dominates PvE for rangers; I'm not aware that it's a big factor in PvP.

In most of the cases I cited, a principal reason for the difference is the same -- number of enemies on the field. In PvE you typically are outnumbered by inferior enemies (even if they are higher level). Thus AoE such as SS or nukes is more useful in PvE than in PvP, and their are more corpses for MMs. And warriors need more defense, while hammer shutdown isn't as useful as it is in PvP.

And that's generic PvE; solo farming is of course a third matter. I routinely farm with AL 222, a -2 damage when enchanted shield, 230+ energy per minute (all but 50-90 of which is available for offense), and 1700+ points of self-healing per minute. I don't see any need to fix or buff that at all.

But I will confess that SS and Barrage make elementalists' generic PvE AoE pale by comparison, and I'd like to see that evened up.

"Elementalists can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession."

If your opening paragraph contains this information, it would only dillude people into thinking the class is designed to deal damage well. Instead it has a vast array of methods to deal damage poorly. Also, the fact remains that deep wound does deal virtual damage when applied and this kills people. You can not dismiss this aspect. You can not also dismiss how ranger damage, while bufffed, will outspike an elementalist before the elementalist can finish casting 1 lightning orb. Furthermore you must also aknowledge that elementalist damage is "what you see is what you get". There are no hidden tricks or combinations to make a fireball, lightning orb, obsidian flame, etc do more than its listed damage reliably ever. In fact, when it comes to the dot aoe spells, you have to engineer situations to cause them to do reliable damage at any given moment. Then there are other frustrations, such as any skill that applies a hex as a side effect, can not target a spirit. This causes a very large portion of ice skills that could be used to help thin out spirit groups to become relegated to only player targets.

The earth adding strength to allies bit made me laugh. Im still looking for any damage augmentation for any ally in any of the elementalist lines. The lightning line talks about specific "high powered" damage attacks. This sadly puts elementalists into direct competition with the real damage dealing classes. Fire talks about, wow more damage. Ill just move on to water which is the only line that begins to sound like a team support addition, but it loses credibility with the "and even protects allies from other forms of magical attack" bit. You get one skill, that is eliete, that protects the caster of the skill only against "other forms of magical attack" opposed to allies. Its like the writer started to write about elementalists, then finished the sentance while talking about ritualists, monks, or mesmers. It continues with this bit of false info "The primary Elementalist attribute, Energy Storage, gives the Elementalist the highest maximum Energy in the game. This makes other professions that use a lot of Energy, like the Monk or the Mesmer, natural choices for an Elementalist's secondary class." Now, considering the skill prices, the individual in question has some issues. The monk is the cheapest energy cost to effect character outside of spirit use or adrenaline use (this is assuming it excludes expertise reductions as well), while mesmer has the nifty inspiration line that does nice things like remove enchantments or hexes while giving the caster energy.

To be honest, the entire description was innacurate except for fire having lots of aoe damage and energy storage giving a higher base energy pool. Yet, you somehow pulled utility out of the following: "Elementalists can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession", "triggers quakes and volcanoes", "targeting specific foes with a focused, high-damage attack", "Fire magic is often considered the most purely destructive form, inflicting searing pain and damage on multiple enemies", and "inflicts freezing cold damage".

Do not try to kid anyone, even the existing skill ratios that dictate otherwise. It is the players that use it as a support class by manipulating the very few support skills that are somewhat unique to the profession with monk skills to create this situation. If ether prodigy didnt exist, people would not play the profession as a primary profession competitivly.

If you were to compare this to the warrior listing, you would find that the warrior isnt nearly as misleading, but it should have the following statements within it as well: ,"can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession.", "targeting specific foes with a focused, high-damage attack", "granting allies greater speed", and "even protects allies from other forms of attack".

To the other individual who was attempting to split hairs about energy and warriors, they do happen to get IAS skills along with the zealous mod, which is far better than the 1 pip of regeneration it is exchanged for. Combined with the option to change weapons as needed and adrenalin, you have a very flexable means of approaching a situation assuming you arent trying to stop and cast spells instead of melee.

Ether Prodigy.

I would say Blinding Flash but I would stick that on a mesmer with attunements if Ether Prodigy didn't exist. You can put Wards on lots of different guys, and Deep Freeze works fine at 0 spec.

So really, the answer is Ether Prodigy.


This was a recent change actually. A month or so ago you could cast hexes or enchantments on spirits all you wanted, the spirit would simply never recieve the effect. Now you can't even target the things. I don't think it was intentional, but this was a non-trivial nerf to the water line.

Peace,
-CxE

The ele was made not for damage over a minutes time. A war cannot outdamage an ele within the first 10 secs of battle, and that is all it takes for a good ele to kill an opponent. You might be able to get a pentrating attack in or sever artery in 10 secs, but that doesnt stack to a good highdealing SMART ele who knows who the other teammates are attacking. An ele and war work very well together by applying pressure to a monk with the war, then having a spike on an enemy caster, and he should be dead before an average monk would have their energy back. Its about teamwork.

You have to forgive me, i missed out on the last "month" due to hardware complications.

Still, i find it rather stupid that the spirits will get affected by the damage component if they are in the radius of the effect, but you cant target them directly.

The only ele build I know of that can kill a single target in 10 seconds or less is a Mind Shocker with extra, non-standard attack skills - and even then, only if you don't start counting until the first Orb *finishes* casting.

A warrior has no problems killing a single target in less than 10 seconds using only skills commonly used in GvG. You can charge and unload an Eviscerate in 10 seconds if you want to play the theory game.

The windup time of the first Orb, and the time it takes a warrior to run to a target are roughly equivilent.

Peace,
-CxE

EDIT - a Mind Burner with PBAoE attacks could potentially kill a soft target in under 10 seconds.

Keep your AS around 1 second and you can unload a eviscerate, and maybe follow it up with an executioners if you have an adrenal booster all within 10 seconds.

A Warrior under no negative effects would hit more during 10 seconds. Cant forget the normal attacks in bulding up adrenaline. Most good warriors have some attack speed buff, so as stated above you should be able to get evicerate and possibly executioners off, plus the damage from the normal attacks.

You don't need an adrenal booster. Axes get 11 hits in 10 seconds under Frenzy, which is enough to charge Evisc + Executioner's, unload them, and have another hit to spare. That's 515 with a Deep Wound, assuming you don't work in another adrenal skill hit (you can spare it), or any non-adrenal skills. If you time from the moment the first attack hits, you get 12 hits in the timeframe, making it around 554 plus Deep Wound, plus any additional skills.

Hammer is a bit more weird, as you get eight hits (nine if you start counting from first damage). You can't fit a good adrenal chain into the eight hit combo, but on the nine it works out nicely - Irresistible, four hits, Irresistible, Forceful, Heavy, Crushing. That comes out to 694 plus a Deep Wound just inside of a 10 second window - albeit with a second warmup.

For comparison, air guy is going to get in two Orbs (the first one at 0 cast time since you start counting once it casts), a Mind Shock, and three Strike equivilents into a 10 second window - slipping in a fourth strike if you get a ton of fast casts in the process, call it half a strike on average to be generous. That's 665 on average, no Deep Wound, double fast cast gear.

Note to get this result you need Orb, Strike, Mind Shock, and a supplemental attack - Javelin, or Arc Lightning + Enervating Charge. This flurry costs you roughly 65-70 energy depending on what you use.

As I said, a purely 10-second damage window Air guy is comparable to what an Eviscerate + Executioner's axe guy can put out, and is not in the same league as a hammer.

Peace,
-CxE

I am consistently baffled by the general "OMFG Ele's suxorz after teh AOE nerf" attitude.

I run a Pyromancer (with Monk secondary) and never have any problems getting into groups, as well as feeling I consistently out-damage most of my team mates (save perhaps a Minion Masters with a big collection of freaks). With 'Elemental Attunement' I rarely ever find I'm running low on energy, the combined damage of Incendary Bonds followed by Fireball is simply devestating a lot of the time (Incendary Bonds tends to go off exactly the time Fireball hits, giving a big AOE spike and also inflicting burning... OW!). With Elemental Attunement that effectively only costs 17 energy.

Also, everyone still loves Meteor Shower, and for real nasty death you can follow it up with the I.Bonds/Fireball spike.

Perhaps one of the reasons my Ele does so well is I carry a 20/20 staff, giving 20% chance that spells are cast twice as fast and that they recharge twice as fast. Having 1 in 5 Meteor Showers cast in 2.5 seconds is pretty nice and a 1 second fireball likewise hurts and comes out of nowhere.

I'm increasingly thinking that this "Ele's suck" attitude must be an America only thing. Everyone in Europe seemingly still likes and respects Elementalists (though there is still a prejudice towards anyone who isn't using fire magic).

Heck, myself and many others will still take Cynn/Orion/Argo along in their hench team. The many high-damage AOE spells Ele's have are just great for missions like Vizunah Square...



SPOILERS: Also, the Ele spell on the last two missions is just fantastic and one of the key abilities to defeating Shiro.

That's quite an assumption. There are a myriad of ways to stop a warrior and every class has something that can do it. In fact, shutting down a warrior is very easy. One can interrupt an ele, but he does have some faster casting spells and most of them are part mesmer... they can use Mantra of Concentration or Resolve.

In fact, everyone who throws out numbers on the warrior's damage need a caeteris paribus clause. The warrior can potentially do that damage under sterile conditions on a target that isn't moving or doing anything to avoid it or having any of his friends do anything to protect him. When you factor in all the ways people try to survive, a proper ele does the damage. The whole point of spike, after all, is that you don't see it coming and it happens very suddenly. I can see a warrior spike coming a mile away.

For those who say that all the other classes are there to facilitate the warrior's damage, that is a very warrior-centric view of combat. Really, you can have the ele be the main damage dealer and your group can keep his energy high, his body clean of conditions, and his mind un-hexed. You can make most any class the central character.

If you want to place the test in subject into the heat of battle, eleys really are a glass cannon. Except, they are no more cannon than a warrior... which makes them just glass.

granted they have a range advantage. But shutting them down compared to the amount of effort and energy it takes to shutdown a warrior is more in favor to the warrior in my experance.

So they are both cannons, one has armor and one has range.
Monks typically lose more energy healing a warrior threat over an elementalist. Its also more expensive to keep a eley alive and properly casting than a warrior. Counterers typically lose more energy debilitaing a warrior than an elementalist. ...the only thing a eley has going for them is the fact that they are underdogs. People prep for the warrior threat because its real. The elementalst is a "trick" that subverts the normal defences. Id put money on it, if elementalist were to ever become popular again, it wouldnt last long. Once the idea is to build a defence counter to an eley, that build is doomed completely. No player skill, just paper beats rocks doomed.
Example: look at the longivity of lighting spike (or any eley strong build) vs. iway.


(im talking pvp, in pve dealing damage in large numbers with eleys still rock)

With 2s to upwards of 15s cast times, factoring in the same style of debuffs parrellel to what a warrior would face, you can see an elementalist comming from the next state. Kiting works for both, however you get the luxury of total mitigation from some ele skills through dodging opposed to some mitigation through warrior kiting. Stop trying to examine one under sterile conditions without doing the same to the other.

As for the 1s cast time skills available to an ele, the majority of them are outpaced by a warrior without using any skills what so ever.

Except under the same conditions the warrior outperforms the ele, so what is the point? I havent seen a "ele spike" group in pvp in ages, not since chain lightning was nerfed. This alone should speak volumes as to what is actually effective to use. If you dont believe me, use obs mode yourself and count the number of teams that use more than 2 elementalists. I bet you wont even need 1 finger.

Guys, I've been reading your suggestions about how to improve this wonderful profession, and frankly speaking I find most of them rather imbalanced. To be honest, elementalists are quite useful but on the other hand, they are kinda useful mostly in PvE. ANet are trying to nerf things that are imba, but I believe they should take into consideration boosting some skills as well.

To begin with, the elementals are four and I've seen sever skills that people use in pvp. There are some, that are going to be used... never, because of their inefficiency. The casting time is really a problem, any migrane mesmer can shut down completely any ele. The fact that eles don't do that much dmg as they are said to be doing is a good reason to boost the casting time. If you are lucky enough to cast a spell without getting interrupted you can probably kill lots of npc's, but how about real people that can actually MOVE and avoid the meteors? ... Boosting is gona help, and do you people think that we are gona see any of it soon?

Energy storage - there is nothing special to be mentioned here, I agree that there must be a convenient energy management skill, that does not cause exaustion or kills you when it ends, or at least not an elite one. And a simple improvement with the amout of energy you can "carry" with you would be helpful. For example 120 energy with 4 pips.

The danger zone of skills. The range they have - this is a great minus to the destructive power of elementalists - low range. Anyone can run away from an incoming meteor shower, but what if they couldn't run away without at least getting hit once... ? Just some ideas, nothing else but a "nearby" range to all spells would be appreciated. And I think it still would be imbalanced tho.

I can't say I am not satisfied with the defensive part of the elemental skills, but a few additions would be nice to have.

On a second thought, imagine all the things you want to see improved... get improved. Anyone would want to play elementalists. It would be imbalanced. A slight touch of boost will be nice.

You could fix the elementalist problem in PvE by reversing the "AI update" that made most AoE fire skills impotent.

The biggest problem is: Eles don't do shit damage with elemental spells to lvl 20-28 enemys.

AND in gw factions you don't fight against lvl 3 enemys (whee my fireball did 300 dmg), you fight lvl 20-28 mobs (omg my 100 dmg fireball didn't do 30 dmg)

Necros have shadow damage, its great, 40 shadow damage deals usually 40 shadow damage or more to lvl 3 and 40 shadow damage or more to lvl 28 mobs.

Eles don't have this. E/N anyone ?

Shadow damage ignores armor. And lv 20-28 enemies have elemental defence. Oh and, fire skills are not impotent, meteor shower still helps nuking. The greates use of eles in GvG is defence now. Their capacity makes them great monk supporters. But I don't think fixing the "AI update" is going to make eles better in pvp...

It won't fix them in PvP--for that, the air and water lines must be examined.

But it would be a great step forwards. Currently a good trapper will deal more damage to massed PvE enemies than a good elementalist. Doesn't that strike you as a bit silly?