Warrior backhand sword style
Dahnel
Ok eversince i saw the tengu warriors for the first time i'v wanted to use my sword backhand style too. Maybe Anet could implement some different styles that you could earn (much like titles but more practical) through doing quests or perhaps have certain swords that can only be used backhanded ... well just an idea wondered if anyone else would be interested in this kind of thing
Aera
Yeah it looks pretty cool, but the tengu's have like small knifes, I don't see my character swinging my fellblade backhanded :P
HawkofStorms
Brute swords and Katanas are small?
I agree. It looks really cool.
I agree. It looks really cool.
BahamutKaiser
They could just make it were certain swords are used backhanded, or can be used backhand with the use of a simple equiptment selection addition.
I think it would be better if they just let us use tengu, backhanded slash, feathers and all :P
I think it would be better if they just let us use tengu, backhanded slash, feathers and all :P
Dahnel
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Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser
I think it would be better if they just let us use tengu, backhanded slash, feathers and all :P
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lyra_song
When I was helping my guildie cap in mineral, the Avicara warrior boss was holding a Fellblade :P
Holding a sword the way the tengus do looks cool, but its not very practical for cutting. Only for knives or really short swords.
But like i said, it looks cool ^^ i actually photoshopped my warrior to doing it. I think it would be pretty easy for Anet to implement. Just create a few weapons that are inverted. Maybe some unique green short swords.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=13
Holding a sword the way the tengus do looks cool, but its not very practical for cutting. Only for knives or really short swords.
But like i said, it looks cool ^^ i actually photoshopped my warrior to doing it. I think it would be pretty easy for Anet to implement. Just create a few weapons that are inverted. Maybe some unique green short swords.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=13
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Aera
Yeah it looks pretty cool, but the tengu's have like small knifes, I don't see my character swinging my fellblade backhanded :P
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Leon_Ux-ixen
Heres a little weapon tip backhanding a weapon is very practical for heavy weapons. In some cases you'll find it eaiser to swing, far as cutting power theres no real difference there. Many samurai back in 1400-1700 Japan backhand katans not just for deflecting multiple blades but also to cut down enemies when surronded.
Heres why heavy weapon backhanding makes more sence when you hold a sword of heavy weight. (RL: claymore, bastard sword, igame: fellblade and wicked) Up or hold at an angel you put alot of pressure on your upper arms and shoulders. Thus tiring thoseimprtant areas much quicker and it takes more time to swing and recover from a heavy swing then it does to backhanding. When you backhand turning and swerving while the blade is mid high is very effective if one spins in a circle it will allow you to pick up enough force to lift the blade higher making the threat range much deadler.
So i'd say if this tech was to be added it would have minor effects on the blades you weild and backhand. For example
Katanas/shorts/longs/: Increase your chance to block attacks.
Wicked/Fellblade/Longsword/Scimitar: Increases the speed but lowers the damage slighty considering fell and long have no curve for sup cutting or air resist unlike the wicked and scimitar that would gain a damage+.
Heres why heavy weapon backhanding makes more sence when you hold a sword of heavy weight. (RL: claymore, bastard sword, igame: fellblade and wicked) Up or hold at an angel you put alot of pressure on your upper arms and shoulders. Thus tiring thoseimprtant areas much quicker and it takes more time to swing and recover from a heavy swing then it does to backhanding. When you backhand turning and swerving while the blade is mid high is very effective if one spins in a circle it will allow you to pick up enough force to lift the blade higher making the threat range much deadler.
So i'd say if this tech was to be added it would have minor effects on the blades you weild and backhand. For example
Katanas/shorts/longs/: Increase your chance to block attacks.
Wicked/Fellblade/Longsword/Scimitar: Increases the speed but lowers the damage slighty considering fell and long have no curve for sup cutting or air resist unlike the wicked and scimitar that would gain a damage+.
Dahnel
also i believe the point of backhanded style is that you dont need alot of room to swing your blade from the draw at close quarters like you would with forearm style.
plz anet add this !
plz anet add this !
Buoyancy
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Originally Posted by Leon_Ux-ixen
Heres why heavy weapon backhanding makes more sence when you hold a sword of heavy weight. (RL: claymore, bastard sword, igame: fellblade and wicked) Up or hold at an angel you put alot of pressure on your upper arms and shoulders.
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mega_jamie
Assassins should be backhanding alot
and warriors would look cool with some swords backhanded.
but think of balance issues!! we need backhand bows and wands too :S
and warriors would look cool with some swords backhanded.
but think of balance issues!! we need backhand bows and wands too :S
Lexar
They would probably have to remake animations for it, and that is very time consuming. I think the best way to put this in the game would be to make this only an aestetic thing. Only certain swords are held backhand style, like a gothic sword would look silly backhanded, but a katana could work. If they're going for a north african maybe bordering to an arab influence for chapter 3 they could make swords for it, like in prince of persia warrior within.
Stockholm
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Originally Posted by Buoyancy
Why on earth would any non-suicidal person hold their sword so that you can't use it to parry? Do you have any sources to back up this claim? There are virtually no real swords that weigh more than 5 pounds, and most two-handed swords weighed between three and four pounds or less. I see no reason why any reasonably fit person would want to make it completely impossible to parry any attack from the front.
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a Saber at about 8lbs, Katana 6-10lbs + depending on lenght.
3-4 lbs is what a hilt and pommel on a broadsword weighs.
And as far as parrying an attack from the front, you get a treamedous speed in a backhand side slash + plus the sword is allready to the side ready to swing, saving time.
Symbol
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A Claymoor or a Broadsword weighs in at 20lbs +, a Saber at about 8lbs, Katana 6-10lbs + depending on lenght. 3-4 lbs is what a hilt and pommel on a broadsword weighs. |
Buoyancy
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Originally Posted by Stockholm
A Claymoor or a Broadsword weighs in at 20lbs +,
a Saber at about 8lbs, Katana 6-10lbs + depending on lenght. 3-4 lbs is what a hilt and pommel on a broadsword weighs. |
http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm
http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html
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| And as far as parrying an attack from the front, you get a treamedous speed in a backhand side slash + plus the sword is allready to the side ready to swing, saving time. |
Stockholm
Sorry. What is baseall?
Dark Suoon
u kno i like it for tengus mostly for a odd reason 
and they should add tengu as a new class, it would be very cool
and they should add tengu as a new class, it would be very cool
Nightwish
Backhanded baseball swing, heh..i would like to see that
lyra_song
I love how people who have dont have practical weapon experience jump into these kind of threads and throw all kinds of silliness around .-.
Theres no martial art or fighting technique that holds a Sword upsidedown. Holding the blade upsidedown is only practical in knife fighting, specifically stabbing techniques. Large weapons cannot benefit and only hinder in this position.
Theres no martial art or fighting technique that holds a Sword upsidedown. Holding the blade upsidedown is only practical in knife fighting, specifically stabbing techniques. Large weapons cannot benefit and only hinder in this position.
Rancour
Does anyone happen to know what an average hand-and-a-half sword weighs?
Not that I can imagine anyone using one of those backhanded...
Not that I can imagine anyone using one of those backhanded...
Stockholm
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
I love how people who have dont have practical weapon experience jump into these kind of threads and throw all kinds of silliness around .-.
Theres no martial art or fighting technique that holds a Sword upsidedown. Holding the blade upsidedown is only practical in knife fighting, specifically stabbing techniques. Large weapons cannot benefit and only hinder in this position. |
Buoyancy
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Originally Posted by Rancour
Does anyone happen to know what an average hand-and-a-half sword weighs?
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Buoyancy
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Originally Posted by Stockholm
First of all I do have some practical weapons experiance, 5 years fencing with Rapier or as we call it Florett. Second was not talking about upside down was talking about holding a sword backwards.
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Mosch
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Originally Posted by Stockholm
First of all I do have some practical weapons experiance, 5 years fencing with Rapier or as we call it Florett. Second was not talking about upside down was talking about holding a sword backwards.
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Dahnel
i love how a simple suggestion for a fantasy game turns into a debate about realism
Mosch
That's not a debate about realism. I would not mind seeing this in the game, in fact I would enjoy some more chances to customize the characters. It's just that some people here make up some crazy figures and theories that they try to sell as truth. I won't bother quoting anyone as it should be obvious....
Man, we are OT. To sum up what I think: Would be nice to implement this ingame, but I don't really see this as a big priority. In fact I don't really think we'll ever see it.
Man, we are OT. To sum up what I think: Would be nice to implement this ingame, but I don't really see this as a big priority. In fact I don't really think we'll ever see it.
Stockholm
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Originally Posted by Mosch
And how many of those years have you been fencing backhanded?
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Mosch
One last statement from someone who actually does sword fighting - Kendo.
I can not imagine why you would, in a real fight, let's say on a tournament, fight holding the sword upside down. Let's make a list of positive aspects you lose:
1)Range. There is no sword between you and your enemy so he will be able to just get in and whack away.
2)Strength. You usually attack in a whip-like motion originating from the hip. Of course that's impossible now.
3)Parry. How will you ever parry anything holding the sword the wrong way? If you're very lucky you might be able to block an attack to your torso (badly, I might add), but how are you going to defend yourself against an attack to the head?
4)Speed. You will first need to bring your sword towards your enemy by doing some kind of ballerina spin and then do a predictable strike.
5)Agility. Have you ever actually tried using your sword that way? I did. You may be the most nimble person in the land, you will really suffer a loss of agility because you shift your "attack zone" to your side.
6)Thrusts. As you have already said.
Holding your sword backwards introduces an interesting problem too. Imagine holding a double edges dword backwards. Did it? Are you in your ninja pose and everything? Now imagine someone whacking at the edge. Where does the other edge move and where does the sudden and intense pain come from?
There is one and only one positive aspect about fighting like this and that aspect is style. And as style is the only aspect that matters in a game, I welcome such a change into a game but I reserve the right to laugh at anybody who "proves" that fighting backhand in real life is a great idea.
I can not imagine why you would, in a real fight, let's say on a tournament, fight holding the sword upside down. Let's make a list of positive aspects you lose:
1)Range. There is no sword between you and your enemy so he will be able to just get in and whack away.
2)Strength. You usually attack in a whip-like motion originating from the hip. Of course that's impossible now.
3)Parry. How will you ever parry anything holding the sword the wrong way? If you're very lucky you might be able to block an attack to your torso (badly, I might add), but how are you going to defend yourself against an attack to the head?
4)Speed. You will first need to bring your sword towards your enemy by doing some kind of ballerina spin and then do a predictable strike.
5)Agility. Have you ever actually tried using your sword that way? I did. You may be the most nimble person in the land, you will really suffer a loss of agility because you shift your "attack zone" to your side.
6)Thrusts. As you have already said.
Holding your sword backwards introduces an interesting problem too. Imagine holding a double edges dword backwards. Did it? Are you in your ninja pose and everything? Now imagine someone whacking at the edge. Where does the other edge move and where does the sudden and intense pain come from?
There is one and only one positive aspect about fighting like this and that aspect is style. And as style is the only aspect that matters in a game, I welcome such a change into a game but I reserve the right to laugh at anybody who "proves" that fighting backhand in real life is a great idea.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Stockholm
First of all I do have some practical weapons experiance, 5 years fencing with Rapier or as we call it Florett. Second was not talking about upside down was talking about holding a sword backwards.
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The tengu hold their swords with the guard under the hand, with the blade pointing downwards. I refer you to my previous post where i photoshopped my warrior holding it Tengu style.
I dont have any problems with it since it is in a fictional setting.
However, since you have fencing experience, you should know that holding your weapon like this is completely ineffective in any combat situation.
Phades
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Originally Posted by Mosch
One last statement from someone who actually does sword fighting - Kendo.
I can not imagine why you would, in a real fight, let's say on a tournament, fight holding the sword upside down. Let's make a list of positive aspects you lose: 1)Range. There is no sword between you and your enemy so he will be able to just get in and whack away. 2)Strength. You usually attack in a whip-like motion originating from the hip. Of course that's impossible now. 3)Parry. How will you ever parry anything holding the sword the wrong way? If you're very lucky you might be able to block an attack to your torso (badly, I might add), but how are you going to defend yourself against an attack to the head? 4)Speed. You will first need to bring your sword towards your enemy by doing some kind of ballerina spin and then do a predictable strike. 5)Agility. Have you ever actually tried using your sword that way? I did. You may be the most nimble person in the land, you will really suffer a loss of agility because you shift your "attack zone" to your side. 6)Thrusts. As you have already said. Holding your sword backwards introduces an interesting problem too. Imagine holding a double edges dword backwards. Did it? Are you in your ninja pose and everything? Now imagine someone whacking at the edge. Where does the other edge move and where does the sudden and intense pain come from? There is one and only one positive aspect about fighting like this and that aspect is style. And as style is the only aspect that matters in a game, I welcome such a change into a game but I reserve the right to laugh at anybody who "proves" that fighting backhand in real life is a great idea. |
Like you said, range is shot to garbage (essentailly grappling distance) and guarding is difficult. Thrusting is possible, but slower/more predictable. I cant really think of a good "neutral" position for it as it seems more like something that is more ideal for a strike that originated from a sheath, but even then it could be easily done with a normal grip.
Still, someone in a more neutral position could just strike the arm along the wrist or the forearm before the blade came around with a reverse grip. I am not sure if there was a style that used the reverse grip primarially, but i highly doubt that it was a full length blade being imployed when doing so. Ive known references to the blade/weapon positioning as gyaku-mochi in a couple different places, but it always seems to be more of a transitional thing opposed to something done all the time.
Nakamura Ryu has some interesting reading within it, but it does reference towards brush strokes likening to sword technique.http://www.webdiva4hire.com/kenshinkan/hapogir.html
Dahnel
well ...it works just fine for the tengu ^^
VGJustice
I have some practical knowledge in this field as well, and while it is true that only an idiot would wield a sword of any kind upsidedown like that in real life, I'd like to point out that this is a fantasy game here. Looks > Realism, in this case.
Which is almost exactly what lyra_song said.
But, uh, why not just let us make a playable Tengu race that holds the sword that way? That'd fix a lot of problems here.
Which is almost exactly what lyra_song said.
But, uh, why not just let us make a playable Tengu race that holds the sword that way? That'd fix a lot of problems here.
Dahnel
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
But, uh, why not just let us make a playable Tengu race that holds the sword that way? That'd fix a lot of problems here.
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Leon_Ux-ixen
Ok Kendo dude if you really have pratice this sword tech then you would know that backhanding isn't that inpratical. I myself have a katana which I pratice backhanding. Kendo is straight forward slashing and counter attack that was taken from one the Samurai Kenjutsu styles.
If you would have care to taken notice I did metion that a curved bladed sword(katana, scimitar, falcion,) is more effective. Why? They are usually light and the curve allows for supuier cutting power and wind resitstance which makes it pretty deadly at CLOSE range. I woun't lie and say it is risking at a distance but it does allow for a very nice deflecting. Oh in china they are rather found of backhanding thier version of a broadsword. Don't belive me look it up.
If you would have care to taken notice I did metion that a curved bladed sword(katana, scimitar, falcion,) is more effective. Why? They are usually light and the curve allows for supuier cutting power and wind resitstance which makes it pretty deadly at CLOSE range. I woun't lie and say it is risking at a distance but it does allow for a very nice deflecting. Oh in china they are rather found of backhanding thier version of a broadsword. Don't belive me look it up.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Leon_Ux-ixen
Ok Kendo dude if you really have pratice this sword tech then you would know that backhanding isn't that inpratical. I myself have a katana which I pratice backhanding. Kendo is straight forward slashing and counter attack that was taken from one the Samurai Kenjutsu styles.
If you would have care to taken notice I did metion that a curved bladed sword(katana, scimitar, falcion,) is more effective. Why? They are usually light and the curve allows for supuier cutting power and wind resitstance which makes it pretty deadly at CLOSE range. I woun't lie and say it is risking at a distance but it does allow for a very nice deflecting. Oh in china they are rather found of backhanding thier version of a broadsword. Don't belive me look it up. |
Lets use the basic high to low cut from a katana. The power comes from the follow through. The right hand is used to aim the sword, while the left hand pulls away at the point of contact. The weight of the body is added into the cut, and the hips and legs help stabilize the upper body and add power to turn into the cut. The whole body is used for a single attack. This is what makes it so powerful.
The Tengu's reverse sword grip stance is completely fictional as a full fledged style. There is little to zero power in it. There is no follow through. There is no room for manipulation. The most you can do is a forward stab, a downstab or a self stab.
It's flashy and stylish and very cool (See the swordfight scenes from the movie Equilibrium) but ultimately, it doesnt work. But i still want it in game
Cause its so cool.
Mosch
Alright, "can't type a name" dude, thanks for telling me what I practice. I appreciate it. If you want to backhand your katana, have fun. I suppose your teacher is a really talented guy to master such a complicated and dangerous technique - give him my kudos! (This is in no way intended to mock you or your sensei, by the way.)
But returning to our scheduled flame war It's all nice and well that you know so much about it all, however you fail to mention details. Even such significant ones as, say, the name of the backhand technique they are so fond of in china. I will gladly look it up then as unfortunately searching for "china backhand technique" comes up with table tennis and so does "china backhand fighting".
In fact, I can not find any evidence on the net about a chinese fighting style that hold the sword upside down. If you could provide me with a source I will gladly continue this discussion with you.
But returning to our scheduled flame war
It's all nice and well that you know so much about it all, however you fail to mention details. Even such significant ones as, say, the name of the backhand technique they are so fond of in china. I will gladly look it up then as unfortunately searching for "china backhand technique" comes up with table tennis and so does "china backhand fighting".In fact, I can not find any evidence on the net about a chinese fighting style that hold the sword upside down. If you could provide me with a source I will gladly continue this discussion with you.
Dahnel
alright, i dont think it really matters about realism when you have people raising the dead and throwing fireballs around , lets just get past that. For all the people that want to see this added to this GAME ... please sign below :P
RBK
/Signed
why? Because it looks kool.
why? Because it looks kool.
Mosch
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Originally Posted by Dahnel
alright, i dont think it really matters about realism when you have people raising the dead and throwing fireballs around , lets just get past that. For all the people that want to see this added to this GAME ... please sign below :P
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Therefore an official /sign for you
Leon_Ux-ixen
I Leon Ux-ixen fully support this idea.
IGN: Leon Ux-ixen, Odin Death, Suller Flaire
Email: [email protected]
IGN: Leon Ux-ixen, Odin Death, Suller Flaire
Email: [email protected]