An enormous number of smaller guilds want to grow by merging, but are reluctant to give up their name, tag, cape and guild hall. The GW devs should consider creating a method for guilds to unite under an umbrella guild.
For example, let's say that two guilds, Llama Lovers International [LLI] and Royal Llama Tamers [RLT] discover each other and wish to merge. The two leaders agree upon the umbrella guild name Union of Llama Affectionados [ULA]. Both leaders choose the new Merge option from the Guild Window and enter the same name and tag, and the other guild with whom to merge. The Merge option is not available if your guild is already in an umbrella guild. When both have done so, the two leaders become Council Members of the umbrella guild ULA. The only three options for them are to Leave the ULA, Add another guild to ULA, or Boot a guild from ULA. The added guild must be added by all Council Members before they are included in ULA. The leader of the guild to be added must also choose the Merge option and enter the umbrella guild name and tag. For a chapter guild to be booted, all OTHER Council Members must choose to boot the chapter guild. If the last chapter guild leaves ULA then ULA ceases to exist.
Characters in an umbrella guild would be seen as, for example, Joe Llama [ULA][LLI]. He belongs to umbrella guild ULA, chapter guild LLI. All chapter guilds would keep their name and tag as a chapter of the umbrella guild. They would also keep their cape and guild hall. GvG would be done under the umbrella guild, at any of the chapter guild halls. To prevent an umbrella guild from becoming a gargantuan, the total number of accounts in the umbrella guild should be limited just as they are now (100 isn't it?) Also, in keeping with the spirit of this feature, guilds who merge should have some minimum number of members, perhaps 3 or 5. For characters in an umbrella guild, a drop-down list would be added to the guild window to select the chapter guild to display (to see who is on-line in any chapter guild).
Well, is this a sweet idea or what? Please feel free to copy this suggestion and paste it at the GW support site.
John Trickknee
Suggestion for GW: Create way for small guilds to unite under an umbrella guild
John TrickKnee
calendae
Yeah, thats sounds good to me. Although, I'm not sure if I'd want a ton of tags after my name. Calendae Shadowson [wote] [sotgh] <--thats really long. 
Immortal Flame
This is a very good idea. Of course there would be leadership problems with two or more council members. For GvG, would guild rankings maintain for the original guilds or for the umbrella guild? And I don't think the umbrella name should be named after any guild in particular, since you'll end up with Unworldly Exotic Banished Red Blue Legionary Warriors and Mages of Tyria and the Universe as a Whole as your umbrella name 
. But its a really good idea to at least have some organization to the many many small guilds running around.
. But its a really good idea to at least have some organization to the many many small guilds running around.
Ikinsey
Like an alliance, I don't know if any of you played L2, but NCsoft had a good system in that, several guild could ally, and even had an ally chat and an icon that showd they were allied.
MoldyRiceFrenzy
great idea dude i hope a net thinks about it
Willow
I would have the subguilds not have any minimum number of members- but do put a maximum cap on them- eventually it's time to go on your own.
But this still doesn't address a problem that many small guilds have (and don't realize they have): you need more going for you than just an awesome cape/name/hall.
But this still doesn't address a problem that many small guilds have (and don't realize they have): you need more going for you than just an awesome cape/name/hall.
Crowskie
I honestly had a similar idea earlier today, but forgot about it mid-mission. Props for a good idea.
My idea was actually to have 10-20 set factions that the guild leader decided to join upon creation of the guild.
My idea was actually to have 10-20 set factions that the guild leader decided to join upon creation of the guild.
John TrickKnee
calendae: The tag length is 2-4 characters, not 5. It could be formatted like this to save some space: [ULA,LLI] or [ULA-LLI]. If you think the 2 tags are too long, you need not join an umbrella guild.
Immortal Flame: There COULD be leadership problems, but one would hope the leaders would hash out the details before creating an umbrella guild. The chapter guild rankings should be discarded and the unbrella guild should start from scratch. As this feature is intended to help small guilds become large enough for guild battles, it is unlikely either guild will have a ranking. The umbrella guild name would be limited just as guild names are currently. And as I said, chapter guilds would not be able to create an umbrella guild since they are already in one. No umbrella nesting. The problems you mention are tiny compared to the problem a 5 person guild has in competing at the guild level.
Ikinsey: I have not played L2 but I like those features.
MoldyRiceFrenzy: Thank you!
Willow: A minimum guild size to merge seems important to me. A 1 person guild isn't a guild at all. A 2 person guild is you and your bro or roomie. I think 3 person minimum is the lowest you want. The higher the minimum the more likely the unbrella guild will succeed, IMHO. I would add that maintaining the minumum chapter guild size should be enforced too, to prevend Clyde Hoser from public spamming to turn his 1 person guild into a 3 person guild, merging, then booting the randos. As for maximum size, I think if a chapter guild dwarfs the other chapter guilds, they will want to pull out of the umbrella guild. Seems unfair to punish a chapter guild for successful recruiting.
Crowskie: I'm happy to have ppl post alternative systems for achieving the same goal of allowing small guilds to grow through association with other small guilds. You would have to flesh out your system before I could comment on it. I am not sure ppl would know with whom they wanted to associate at the time they create their guild though.
Immortal Flame: There COULD be leadership problems, but one would hope the leaders would hash out the details before creating an umbrella guild. The chapter guild rankings should be discarded and the unbrella guild should start from scratch. As this feature is intended to help small guilds become large enough for guild battles, it is unlikely either guild will have a ranking. The umbrella guild name would be limited just as guild names are currently. And as I said, chapter guilds would not be able to create an umbrella guild since they are already in one. No umbrella nesting. The problems you mention are tiny compared to the problem a 5 person guild has in competing at the guild level.
Ikinsey: I have not played L2 but I like those features.
MoldyRiceFrenzy: Thank you!
Willow: A minimum guild size to merge seems important to me. A 1 person guild isn't a guild at all. A 2 person guild is you and your bro or roomie. I think 3 person minimum is the lowest you want. The higher the minimum the more likely the unbrella guild will succeed, IMHO. I would add that maintaining the minumum chapter guild size should be enforced too, to prevend Clyde Hoser from public spamming to turn his 1 person guild into a 3 person guild, merging, then booting the randos. As for maximum size, I think if a chapter guild dwarfs the other chapter guilds, they will want to pull out of the umbrella guild. Seems unfair to punish a chapter guild for successful recruiting.
Crowskie: I'm happy to have ppl post alternative systems for achieving the same goal of allowing small guilds to grow through association with other small guilds. You would have to flesh out your system before I could comment on it. I am not sure ppl would know with whom they wanted to associate at the time they create their guild though.
Old Dood
I like the form an Alliance Guild idea. I have many good playing friends out there that belong to other Guilds. In most cases they are the leader or at least an officer of thier Guilds. It would be great to have an Alliance add-on. Even an Alliance PvP that is separate fron the original PvP. It could be a whole different scoring system then the original PvP. We could even keep our original capes with a "Badge" or "Patch" added on the capes while in Alliance mode.
Sam Katha
As the leader of a guild with alot in common with the Village Idiots, (hello Trickknee) I'll add my support for this idea.
And hello Crowskie, hope to see you online soon.
And hello Crowskie, hope to see you online soon.
johnnylange
I like this idea, considering two other guilds made a request to merge with mine. There was many things that I and one of my officers didn't agree with, so we just let that deal fell threw. But that's the reality of possilbe merging issues. This idea at least gives you the option to back out of things later on if things don't work out. As far as the name tag goes, for merged guilds maybe they could have (m) after the tag to show it's a merged guild. For example my "merged" guild tag would show: TDDG(m)XLS ...showing who we are merged with. Also in the guild menu there could be an extra tab that would show the guild roster of the guild you're merged with... 
This idea at least gives you the option to back out of things later on if things don't work out. As far as the name tag goes, for merged guilds maybe they could have (m) after the tag to show it's a merged guild. For example my "merged" guild tag would show: TDDG(m)XLS ...showing who we are merged with. Also in the guild menu there could be an extra tab that would show the guild roster of the guild you're merged with...
John TrickKnee
Shameless bump. And I hate ppl that do that too.
Veripare
/Signed
I absolutely am IN LOVE with this idea!
All the power to you!
~Veripare
I absolutely am IN LOVE with this idea!
All the power to you!
~Veripare
Ristaron
I love this idea. When I made my guild I was in contact with two other people who were making their own guild. We wanted to make the guild together, but we couldn't seem to agree on the finer points. Eventually all three of us made seperate guilds. If we were able to make an alliance (or umbrella guild, as it is referred to here), we would have been fine.
I don't think there should be a cap to the amount of people allowed in, as this would make really large guilds, and these really large guilds would be at war with each other - emphasizing guild wars. The countless battles always going on would really suit the name.
As well, intra(umbrella)guild battles could be on an internal ladder as well as the main ladder.
The only things left to discuss are:
-Could the councillors vote to get rid of one of the guilds?
-Who would manage it? If it goes beyond the original 2-3 members how would you add people? Voting can take a long time if it's mandatory that councillors all vote (majority could be needed), but how would you change the name to fit a new guild entering?
I play Utopia, and we have alliances there. I've been in alliances (including commanding the military of one) with dozens of kingdoms (like guilds, but 25 people per kingdom max). It's REALLY fun when we have an alliance war (which is not really supposed to be fun, as alliances are meant for protecting their constituents, not raging war on the world - alliances only war when hostilities between them grow to the point one of them has to beat down the other).
I don't think there should be a cap to the amount of people allowed in, as this would make really large guilds, and these really large guilds would be at war with each other - emphasizing guild wars. The countless battles always going on would really suit the name.
As well, intra(umbrella)guild battles could be on an internal ladder as well as the main ladder.
The only things left to discuss are:
-Could the councillors vote to get rid of one of the guilds?
-Who would manage it? If it goes beyond the original 2-3 members how would you add people? Voting can take a long time if it's mandatory that councillors all vote (majority could be needed), but how would you change the name to fit a new guild entering?
I play Utopia, and we have alliances there. I've been in alliances (including commanding the military of one) with dozens of kingdoms (like guilds, but 25 people per kingdom max). It's REALLY fun when we have an alliance war (which is not really supposed to be fun, as alliances are meant for protecting their constituents, not raging war on the world - alliances only war when hostilities between them grow to the point one of them has to beat down the other).
Sair
Alliances, I love it!
That would be a great addition to the game.
That would be a great addition to the game.
Gerbill
Alliances would be nice yeah.
Though maybe you would need to restrict it under a certain power else you'll get 5 strong guilds for example who form an alliance and they hold the ranking list forever if they're good enough simply because they won't lose to eachother.
another nice thing could be for allied guilds to spar against eachother without affecting the guild ranking list.
Though maybe you would need to restrict it under a certain power else you'll get 5 strong guilds for example who form an alliance and they hold the ranking list forever if they're good enough simply because they won't lose to eachother.
another nice thing could be for allied guilds to spar against eachother without affecting the guild ranking list.
Thomasuwoo
My guild since it is rather small has been allied with a few other guilds (Namely the Sleeping Dragons! We love you guys!) and shall no doubt be merging soon. It certinly not something we're rushing into. It would be nice to allie with other small guilds just to make GvG more assesable, even if it didn't allow us rank.
KelvinC
I Like this.
To solve the ladder problem, guild can either play in behalf of the alliance or the subguild.
For example if they fight for ULI, everyone from ULI including those from LLI and RLT can form a group together and GvG. The result will only affact the umbrella-ULI.
If they fight for LLI, only the members of LLI can join. The result will affect the ranking of LLI.
members can always choose to fight for the alliance or their own subguild.
To solve the ladder problem, guild can either play in behalf of the alliance or the subguild.
For example if they fight for ULI, everyone from ULI including those from LLI and RLT can form a group together and GvG. The result will only affact the umbrella-ULI.
If they fight for LLI, only the members of LLI can join. The result will affect the ranking of LLI.
members can always choose to fight for the alliance or their own subguild.
KelvinC
Another good use of alliance is for split.
For example Guild ABC can split to ABC-PvP and ABC-PvE etc..
For example Guild ABC can split to ABC-PvP and ABC-PvE etc..
emil knight
I think this would be a great idea, but I'd like to see one change...
When this merge happens, both guilds original entries into the guild ladder disappear and the new umbrella guild is re-entered at 1000. If a third guild enters their entry is likewise deleted, but the umbrella guild would stay at whatever rating they hold at that time.
If a guild decided to leave this umbrella, thier previous rating would be restored, and that guild would re-enter the ladder at thier previous solo rating.
This would make the ladder a bit more dynamic, and force this new "super guild" to fight for their position on the ladder again.
When this merge happens, both guilds original entries into the guild ladder disappear and the new umbrella guild is re-entered at 1000. If a third guild enters their entry is likewise deleted, but the umbrella guild would stay at whatever rating they hold at that time.
If a guild decided to leave this umbrella, thier previous rating would be restored, and that guild would re-enter the ladder at thier previous solo rating.
This would make the ladder a bit more dynamic, and force this new "super guild" to fight for their position on the ladder again.
zwitterion
Wow that's such a great idea. Adds in a whole feudal aspect of command hierarchies and coordinating seperate groups in battle too which could be interesting. I wonder if you'd get mercenary guilds..
KelvinC
Also servals small inactive guild that lacks people to PvP can join together to have more people to PvP.
Sereng Amaranth
Our guild needs this since we have recently started a training guild. Our original is I Slay People (ISP) and our new one is ISP Academy (ISPa). We recruit into the Academy and when the leader decides a member is ready, we promote them into ISP. Also, instead of being kicked from ISP for being offline for over 2 weeks, we would kick them and then immediately invite them into ISPa.
The problem with it right now is we can't collectively chat unless we party together. We have to whisper to the ISPa leader and coordinate our promotions through a 1 on 1 basis.
The problem with it right now is we can't collectively chat unless we party together. We have to whisper to the ISPa leader and coordinate our promotions through a 1 on 1 basis.
yaos
I like this idea a lot but here is a suggestion. Instead of GVG being part of the umbrella guild(or alliance)it would still be part of the normal 100 person guild. The alliance shares an alliance guild hall that only alliances can get, a chat room, the ability to switch between the guilds or alliance cape, and possibly some other perks that I can't think of right now.
This would allow an alliance to have an unlimited number of spots, while preventing a giant rated guild from being created.
Another idea I just had are rated alliances, an alliance picks the best fighters to represent the alliance in PVP(don't know what the max should be, or how often it can be changed). This would be similar to GVG but would be Alliance V Alliance.
This would allow an alliance to have an unlimited number of spots, while preventing a giant rated guild from being created.
Another idea I just had are rated alliances, an alliance picks the best fighters to represent the alliance in PVP(don't know what the max should be, or how often it can be changed). This would be similar to GVG but would be Alliance V Alliance.
Thanas
I think this is a fantastic idea, especially for me. My guild has been set up with RL friends. However they do not feel the need to play competively and play a lot less than me. I can't leave this guild because this would upset my friends, however I really would like to play with other more organised guilds. It is very frustrating having to wait around for random PUGs, especially when they cannot be bothered to co-ordinate themselves properly. If this idea were implemented it would allow me access to many areas of the game which I do not have at the moment because of my guild ties.
aron searle
idea of the day
/signed
/signed
burai
What a fantastic idea. I am reluctant to disband our rather pathetic 4-man guild (including 1 that ain't been on for +1 month), mainly because we're a bunch of sad muppets. I would love to be able join with other sad muppets for a little GvG but still maintain our own guild.
i'm moist with excitement
i'm moist with excitement
Pyxis
Too bad ideas like this don't get more attention. They basically have a skeleton structure in place for Guilds, but people are more concerned with buffs and nerfs all the time. Would love to see some tools made available to Guild Leaders. Any type of alliance system would be appreciated, it is just a big piece of the game that is missing right now. I hope they show some love to the Guild Halls before the start introducing any new skills or classes which would in turn require tons of rebalancing. Just always requires tons of rebalancing when you do stuff like that, no way to avoid it.
Age
Gaile posted something like this over on GWonline.It would be nice if she shared it with everyone else.
Lagg
Membership of up to 5 guilds.
Leadership/Officership of up to 1 guild.
Selectable tag and cape + off toggle for both.
Leadership/Officership of up to 1 guild.
Selectable tag and cape + off toggle for both.
Andovar
This is, without a doubt, one of the best ideas I've seen in a while.
I'm guessing you already sent this to Anet?
Anyway, the petition to get this added gets my sig.
This would do wonders for the PvP community.
To help get the word out, I'm copying your post and posting it on the VN boards. I didn't see any mention on it there and Gaile seems to be there on a regular basis.
I'm guessing you already sent this to Anet?
Anyway, the petition to get this added gets my sig.
This would do wonders for the PvP community.
To help get the word out, I'm copying your post and posting it on the VN boards. I didn't see any mention on it there and Gaile seems to be there on a regular basis.
Yamat
/signed.
We have a guild of friends containing 12 people, half in Europe, half in the US. Try getting a GvG together there..!
Great idea.
We have a guild of friends containing 12 people, half in Europe, half in the US. Try getting a GvG together there..!
Great idea.
Ristaron
I'd just like to post my support again, as I don't feel that once is enough.
/signed
/signed
/signed
My guild is growing slowly, we have 11 members now (one who hasn't been on for 3 months but I can't kick him because he's out at his cabin and I know him in RL)... we're mainly tight-nit... almost all of us knew each other beforehand... and no one member didn't know anyone from the guild before joining. We have a sigil but are waiting for the main players to all be online to buy it (we all love being there for the big moment)... which won't take long. We're getting the warrior hall.
If we could form an umbrella guild with one guild I have friends in but don't have to simply merge into them (they have 40 members to our 11)(I'm reluctant to let go of the tight-nit friendship we have... and a little of the leadership I have... I came up with 90% of what the guild is myself)...
/signed once again
/signed
/signed
/signed
My guild is growing slowly, we have 11 members now (one who hasn't been on for 3 months but I can't kick him because he's out at his cabin and I know him in RL)... we're mainly tight-nit... almost all of us knew each other beforehand... and no one member didn't know anyone from the guild before joining. We have a sigil but are waiting for the main players to all be online to buy it (we all love being there for the big moment)... which won't take long. We're getting the warrior hall.
If we could form an umbrella guild with one guild I have friends in but don't have to simply merge into them (they have 40 members to our 11)(I'm reluctant to let go of the tight-nit friendship we have... and a little of the leadership I have... I came up with 90% of what the guild is myself)...
/signed once again
varyag
This is a great idea and a sound implementation suggestion. The leaders of each guild will be responsible for organizing their guild just like before the merger, so the council is only organizational and even if power struggles develop they wont bring direct harm to any guild.
The umbrella's main goal is to allow guilds to merge without losing their name and other important things (perhaps except some gold to balance things).
The umbrella's main goal is to allow guilds to merge without losing their name and other important things (perhaps except some gold to balance things).
Chev of Hardass
I left my PvE guild a while ago looking for a PvP guild. I would love to form an alliance between the two. Having resources for PvE and PvP friends would be great.
I have thought of writing up a proposal to the leaders of both guilds to allow people to swap back and forth, but I think this would solve a lot of problems with that. Number one? Chat. Chat. Chat. If there were only an alliance chat......
/signed
I have thought of writing up a proposal to the leaders of both guilds to allow people to swap back and forth, but I think this would solve a lot of problems with that. Number one? Chat. Chat. Chat. If there were only an alliance chat......
/signed
KelvinC
I hope arena.net do not miss this post.
Guillaume De Sonoma
[QUOTE=John TrickKnee]
MoldyRiceFrenzy: Thank you!
[QUOTE]
Hey thats my guild leader just noticed
but nice idea
MoldyRiceFrenzy: Thank you!
[QUOTE]
Hey thats my guild leader just noticed
but nice idea
Eltargrim
As with Ristaron,
/signed
/signed
/signed
This would be great for GW. Honestly. If a good system for management could be worked out, I can't see how anybody could complain.
/signed
/signed
/signed
This would be great for GW. Honestly. If a good system for management could be worked out, I can't see how anybody could complain.
Snowman
Im probably the only one who disagree's with this.
I've had two successfull mergers.. if a smaller guild wants to join a larger guild because they are struggling, then they have to accept that their guild has failed.. if you dont merge.. because you want to keep your cape or whatever.. then the chances are your members will leave for another guild anyway, and your guild will soon be dead and long forgotton.
However when I have merged with other guilds their leader becomes my officer, and then we try agree a new cape design which merges the two...
this is very succesfull.. new members feel they have a say in the guild because their old leader still has authority.. the cape has changed to reflect the merger.. more members, more battles.. more people online.. MORE FUN..
ok, so what if two equally sized guilds want to merge?.. well then a merger isnt what they need.. a coalition is what they need!.. an alliance!.. so that you are two seperate guilds.. but you can monitor the activity of the other guild.. like see which of their members are on etc.
I maybe wrong, but I think 'coalition' is something that Arenanet are going to introduce.
I've had two successfull mergers.. if a smaller guild wants to join a larger guild because they are struggling, then they have to accept that their guild has failed.. if you dont merge.. because you want to keep your cape or whatever.. then the chances are your members will leave for another guild anyway, and your guild will soon be dead and long forgotton.
However when I have merged with other guilds their leader becomes my officer, and then we try agree a new cape design which merges the two...
this is very succesfull.. new members feel they have a say in the guild because their old leader still has authority.. the cape has changed to reflect the merger.. more members, more battles.. more people online.. MORE FUN..
ok, so what if two equally sized guilds want to merge?.. well then a merger isnt what they need.. a coalition is what they need!.. an alliance!.. so that you are two seperate guilds.. but you can monitor the activity of the other guild.. like see which of their members are on etc.
I maybe wrong, but I think 'coalition' is something that Arenanet are going to introduce.
MoldyRiceFrenzy
i think this has been said b4 i definitely agree on it though