well, here's something to think about, AN is using other countries in their expantions, some contries are technologically advanced farther then others[please don't kill me for saying that], so maybe that can effect a expantion.
also, if you've played TCF, think about the engineer turret size, who said they had to be big to do what they had to?
New Class Concept: Engineer
Plushie Penguin
unholy guardian
i like the class, it should just as functional and diverse as the ritualist was. The bombs sound awesome in aspwenwood kurzick side lol
Nevin
I like the material pool idea, A lot.
unholy guardian
be kinda creepy if they added this class and had a mesmer illusion skill... or a domination to destroy materials 
Lordhelmos
With the upcoming conceptual class contest going on I would like to thank everyone that has offered their insight my idea of the engineer... good crits and bad crits as well. I put alot of deep thinking on the mechanisms of the class and its interaction with the other classes of the Gwars universe. Thanks to everyone's input the concept of the engineer has reached a very balanced state and has become a very realistic class in design and balance. 
I'm looking forward to see how this class does in the grand scheme of things. Ty all for support.
Engineer spike ftw!
I'm looking forward to see how this class does in the grand scheme of things. Ty all for support.
Engineer spike ftw!
Nightwish
Good job on the whole idea and the details. I like it alot. As for the critics:
Overpowered?
-This is just a draft. Skills can be balanced.
Does not suit Guild Wars theme?
-Engineers already exist. Explosives are present. It is not like OP is suggesting UFOs, robots, laser beams etc.
Just does not fit your taste and perception of Guild Wars world?
-That is just your personal preference and will not apply to other players.
Sorry if I sounded a bit blunt, but I feel that alot of good ideas in this forum section were shot down because many are jumping to conclusions on first impression of the unbalanced ideas (can be adjusted) and personal tastes (e.g. This idea is bad because I simply do not like the playstyle).
P.S. I notice quite a number of players suggested skill rebalancing ideas, which is a much better response than ---> just plain "No, just no" or "Nah, this class doesnt suit GW".
Overpowered?
-This is just a draft. Skills can be balanced.
Does not suit Guild Wars theme?
-Engineers already exist. Explosives are present. It is not like OP is suggesting UFOs, robots, laser beams etc.
Just does not fit your taste and perception of Guild Wars world?
-That is just your personal preference and will not apply to other players.
Sorry if I sounded a bit blunt, but I feel that alot of good ideas in this forum section were shot down because many are jumping to conclusions on first impression of the unbalanced ideas (can be adjusted) and personal tastes (e.g. This idea is bad because I simply do not like the playstyle).
P.S. I notice quite a number of players suggested skill rebalancing ideas, which is a much better response than ---> just plain "No, just no" or "Nah, this class doesnt suit GW".
Terra Xin
I agree with nightwish. When I first saw this thread, it reminded me alot about the ascalon missions where you get to blow the charr up with trebuchet's
Also, well done on the updates, your profession is coming along very very nicely^^
Also, well done on the updates, your profession is coming along very very nicely^^
Lordhelmos
ty for the comment terra, I'm working on adding new skills as they come to mind.
Lordhelmos
Big skill update and change the kinds of weapons an engineer uses to better match the class. The hand cannon weapons have half the range of a shortbow, making them untrue "guns" and the crossbows have about shortbow range. I tried to design the crossbow skills to be used in manipulating things like bomb fuses and stances since ranger arrows pretty much cover everything else.
unholy guardian
i think the signet thats in the other skills needs a buff, sorter recharge time, maybe down to 40 seconds at least?
Lordhelmos
Good call on the buff (:
I think the weapon changes are for the better.
I think the weapon changes are for the better.
Carth`
I think this is a very well designed class, and I like it.
The main complaint from people seems to be that it doesn't fit into the Guild Wars world. In Medieval times they certainly had siege engines. Trebuchets, catapults, ballistas, that kind of thing. Any explosives would have been primitive, they would have been more likely to launch barrels of burning oil that explode into a wall of enemies - not much use against only a few people, because the accuracy was crap.
But I don't like the idea of cannons and muskets etc. They don't belong in this kind of game, it would have just been unfeasible in Medieval times.
Tbh I always wished rangers could wield crossbows, after all warriors have three types of weapons. A crossbow would have the shortest flight time, but probably longest time between shots.
The main complaint from people seems to be that it doesn't fit into the Guild Wars world. In Medieval times they certainly had siege engines. Trebuchets, catapults, ballistas, that kind of thing. Any explosives would have been primitive, they would have been more likely to launch barrels of burning oil that explode into a wall of enemies - not much use against only a few people, because the accuracy was crap.
But I don't like the idea of cannons and muskets etc. They don't belong in this kind of game, it would have just been unfeasible in Medieval times.
Tbh I always wished rangers could wield crossbows, after all warriors have three types of weapons. A crossbow would have the shortest flight time, but probably longest time between shots.
Lordhelmos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Carth`
I think this is a very well designed class, and I like it.
The main complaint from people seems to be that it doesn't fit into the Guild Wars world. In Medieval times they certainly had siege engines. Trebuchets, catapults, ballistas, that kind of thing. Any explosives would have been primitive, they would have been more likely to launch barrels of burning oil that explode into a wall of enemies - not much use against only a few people, because the accuracy was crap. But I don't like the idea of cannons and muskets etc. They don't belong in this kind of game, it would have just been unfeasible in Medieval times. Tbh I always wished rangers could wield crossbows, after all warriors have three types of weapons. A crossbow would have the shortest flight time, but probably longest time between shots. |
Dana Hawkeye
Great idea and concept. GW needs an 'Assault Engineer' or 'Pioneer'.
The Romans and Greeks had engineers as did most major Empire builders. The Chinese invented gunpowder hundreds of years before the West knew about it - so it can easily fit in with the Guild Wars realm.
This engineer could also be developed along the 'Sapper' line, with laying mines (mines already exist in GW), they could have an anti-trap skill (mine/trap clearance), for defence work a trench or berm making skill or dragon's teeth type defence - these are just some ideas, maybe workable, maybe not.
The Romans and Greeks had engineers as did most major Empire builders. The Chinese invented gunpowder hundreds of years before the West knew about it - so it can easily fit in with the Guild Wars realm.
This engineer could also be developed along the 'Sapper' line, with laying mines (mines already exist in GW), they could have an anti-trap skill (mine/trap clearance), for defence work a trench or berm making skill or dragon's teeth type defence - these are just some ideas, maybe workable, maybe not.
majoho
I don't like the use of guns and stuff in medieval fantasy setting, it just seems so wrong.
Yanman.be
/signed
Majoho, there are no guns.
Majoho, there are no guns.
Lordhelmos
nope just old 10th century powder weapons 
Lordhelmos
I updated some of the skills and added new "wire" based skills to the crossbow line to add some unique attributes to the weapon and further separate it from ranger bows.
<Edit>
Wow, just looking over the progression of skills I realized this idea has come a long way in evolution from when I first posted it! Ty all for community support and feedback.
<Edit>
Wow, just looking over the progression of skills I realized this idea has come a long way in evolution from when I first posted it! Ty all for community support and feedback.
actionjack
I will make some comment on the weapons (which was later added in if I remember)
I like hand cannon better than cross bow, just because they are more stylize and with bigger boom. But the devs can decide the level of technology in the world, and one can easily replace another. The thing is, they need to be differnt from that of bow.
I would want to see an inherient stat difference of crossbow. Following the "general sterotype" of a game crossbow, it would be slower in reloading time, greater damage, and possibliy a bit shorter in range than that of bow.
The skills also need to be differnt, in that I don't want to see too many condition applying or interuption skills, but more of raw damage for crossbow. And surprising you didn't use this, but why not use the Materials as the bases of your crossbow skills? This seperates it from yet another energy base shooter, and ties better with the overall class.
Aiming Scope (Crossbow Skill):
For the next 12...24 seconds, your crossbow shots can not be evaded. It also allow you to shoot a further distance.
<Preperation, Cast time: 2, Material Cost: 2, Cost: 5, Recharge: 25>
Armor Piercing Tip (Crossbow Skill):
For the next 12...24 seconds, your crossbow shots have 50% armor piercing.
<Preperation, Cast time: 2, Material Cost: 3, Cost: 5, Recharge: 25>
Also more skills, in the Demolitions and Craftsmanship, need to use Material as cost for their skill (but will reduce the enrgy cost needed) Think of it as Adr for warrior. Its what you need to make it not another Elm clone.
I like hand cannon better than cross bow, just because they are more stylize and with bigger boom. But the devs can decide the level of technology in the world, and one can easily replace another. The thing is, they need to be differnt from that of bow.
I would want to see an inherient stat difference of crossbow. Following the "general sterotype" of a game crossbow, it would be slower in reloading time, greater damage, and possibliy a bit shorter in range than that of bow.
The skills also need to be differnt, in that I don't want to see too many condition applying or interuption skills, but more of raw damage for crossbow. And surprising you didn't use this, but why not use the Materials as the bases of your crossbow skills? This seperates it from yet another energy base shooter, and ties better with the overall class.
Aiming Scope (Crossbow Skill):
For the next 12...24 seconds, your crossbow shots can not be evaded. It also allow you to shoot a further distance.
<Preperation, Cast time: 2, Material Cost: 2, Cost: 5, Recharge: 25>
Armor Piercing Tip (Crossbow Skill):
For the next 12...24 seconds, your crossbow shots have 50% armor piercing.
<Preperation, Cast time: 2, Material Cost: 3, Cost: 5, Recharge: 25>
Also more skills, in the Demolitions and Craftsmanship, need to use Material as cost for their skill (but will reduce the enrgy cost needed) Think of it as Adr for warrior. Its what you need to make it not another Elm clone.
Lordhelmos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by actionjack
I will make some comment on the weapons (which was later added in if I remember)
I like hand cannon better than cross bow, just because they are more stylize and with bigger boom. But the devs can decide the level of technology in the world, and one can easily replace another. The thing is, they need to be differnt from that of bow. I would want to see an inherient stat difference of crossbow. Following the "general sterotype" of a game crossbow, it would be slower in reloading time, greater damage, and possibliy a bit shorter in range than that of bow. The skills also need to be differnt, in that I don't want to see too many condition applying or interuption skills, but more of raw damage for crossbow. And surprising you didn't use this, but why not use the Materials as the bases of your crossbow skills? This seperates it from yet another energy base shooter, and ties better with the overall class. Aiming Scope (Crossbow Skill): For the next 12...24 seconds, your crossbow shots can not be evaded. It also allow you to shoot a further distance. <Preperation, Cast time: 2, Material Cost: 2, Cost: 5, Recharge: 25> Armor Piercing Tip (Crossbow Skill): For the next 12...24 seconds, your crossbow shots have 50% armor piercing. <Preperation, Cast time: 2, Material Cost: 3, Cost: 5, Recharge: 25> Also more skills, in the Demolitions and Craftsmanship, need to use Material as cost for their skill (but will reduce the enrgy cost needed) Think of it as Adr for warrior. Its what you need to make it not another Elm clone. |
411pure
jesus guys... so many critisicm about the build it sounds completely awsome 2 me!! I had 28 celestial long bows in my backpack 2dai... im pretty sure u dont hav 2 worry about material space lol. yeh i like the sounds of the idea that the parts juts wizz around in the air and magicly come together. If the idea of having gun or a crossbow is out of teh question for some players howbout we just have items which you can store in your inventory and put them together on the battlefield. i was watching my little cousin playing a MMORPG called runescape and there is a cannon which has the parts puld appart in your inventory which you can setup next to monsters 2 kil them. This could certainly be done in a smal scale. Such as putting together a small rotating arrow launcher which shoots arrows. But it would break after say 1000 arrows shot and would cost maybe 25 platinum to repair as it is such a powerful weapon. Btw i realli like the idea of a engineer clas.. But then again i love playing rpgs were there is sub classes such as mining, enginering and stuf like in WoW.
achilles ankle
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
I doubt ANet would create a skill that allows people to move 33% faster when skills like sprint only allow the user to run 25% faster. Most of your spells are too low cost and short recharge time. And the damage numbers are very high for the skills.
|
What i cant understand is that if alot of ppl agree with this why do ppl jump all over the topic of guns in gw(not machine guns muskets and such).
Migh work ok but the seige machines would have to be scaled to the amout of dmg the actual players can do.
Rikimaru
This is a great class, if I didn't vote for it I really should have.
Here are some ideas for skills (I won't give a lot of details, just ideas):
Blade Mine: Place a mine at your location. While it lasts, any enemies that get too close will take X amount of slashing damage each second, and become crippled.
Reload: spend X amount of materials, and reload target turret. The materials spent to reload the turret will count towards the total amount of materials that the turret holds.
Here are some ideas for skills (I won't give a lot of details, just ideas):
Blade Mine: Place a mine at your location. While it lasts, any enemies that get too close will take X amount of slashing damage each second, and become crippled.
Reload: spend X amount of materials, and reload target turret. The materials spent to reload the turret will count towards the total amount of materials that the turret holds.
Cid
I love this idea!
Kinda reminds me of a trapper-elementalist mix though...
And you avatar Rikimaru. Vincent Valentine = Second best FF char ever
Kinda reminds me of a trapper-elementalist mix though...
And you avatar Rikimaru. Vincent Valentine = Second best FF char ever
Lordhelmos
Added a whole slew of updates in regards to the mystery surrounding nightfall and the new classes. A couple of neat new skills have been added, including Rikimaru's reload idea. Also I changed the physics of the crossbow to a more armor piercing weapon and updated the machine knowledge attribute at add a % of armor piercing bonuses to crossbow weapons. Garrote and hand cannon skills were also changed to make it a devastating but costly weapon to use, since many of the skills deal self damage or conditions. The skills Fake and Decoy were also added and are quite nice... hehehehe.
I did some thinking on linking hand cannon skills and crossbow skills to materials, but looking at it having an engineer as a secondary would be an easy way to abuse those skills by just using the material pool to spam cannon and crossbow attacks at nearly no cost at all; since materials recycle back to the pool once and contraption or bomb has been used or destroyed (For example: A crossbow skill with a material cost of 2 could always be used over and over, since the 2 materials used by the skill continually recycle. Putting a recharge time on materials to manage this would just complicate things.). Also keeping these with an energy cost will help to intergrate the engineer with other classes. Materials at this point would be best to still stand unique to building skills.
~Crits and ideas always welcome~
And vote!
Engineer spike Ftw!
Man all this thinking on game physics... I feel like a developer (:
I did some thinking on linking hand cannon skills and crossbow skills to materials, but looking at it having an engineer as a secondary would be an easy way to abuse those skills by just using the material pool to spam cannon and crossbow attacks at nearly no cost at all; since materials recycle back to the pool once and contraption or bomb has been used or destroyed (For example: A crossbow skill with a material cost of 2 could always be used over and over, since the 2 materials used by the skill continually recycle. Putting a recharge time on materials to manage this would just complicate things.). Also keeping these with an energy cost will help to intergrate the engineer with other classes. Materials at this point would be best to still stand unique to building skills.
~Crits and ideas always welcome~
And vote!
Engineer spike Ftw!
Man all this thinking on game physics... I feel like a developer (:
Cataclysm
This is one of the best ideas for a firearms based profession Ive seen. I'd like to make a few suggestions tho.
The firearms should be in there but with different types
1) Long Rifle (2 handed)
Piercing DMG (Why piercing? To keep skills like Shields Up useful) 20-40
Range: 1.25 Aggro circles
Reload time: 2.5 seconds
Chance ot hit: 75%
2) Musket (2 handed)
Piercing DMG 20-40
Range: 1 Aggro circle
Reload time: 2 seconds
Chance to hit: 60%
3) Handcannon (Pistol seems too... Modern. One handed)
Piercing Damage 20-40
Range: .75 Aggro circles
Reoload time: 1.5 seconds
Chance to hit: 50%
Hand Cannons can be dual wielded with a 50% increase of attack speed but additional 50% chance to miss. This would be done my simpley dragging your 2nd Hand Cannon onto your offhand. To keep things balanced with other firearms, when you dual wield handcannons you only gain bonuses from the one on your... Not off-hand...
Firearms fall under demolitions but for each point in Craftsmanship you get an extra 2% chance to hit using a firearm
I also think that when a bomb explodes you should only get half oyur materials back, making skills that salvage them more valuble.
The firearms should be in there but with different types
1) Long Rifle (2 handed)
Piercing DMG (Why piercing? To keep skills like Shields Up useful) 20-40
Range: 1.25 Aggro circles
Reload time: 2.5 seconds
Chance ot hit: 75%
2) Musket (2 handed)
Piercing DMG 20-40
Range: 1 Aggro circle
Reload time: 2 seconds
Chance to hit: 60%
3) Handcannon (Pistol seems too... Modern. One handed)
Piercing Damage 20-40
Range: .75 Aggro circles
Reoload time: 1.5 seconds
Chance to hit: 50%
Hand Cannons can be dual wielded with a 50% increase of attack speed but additional 50% chance to miss. This would be done my simpley dragging your 2nd Hand Cannon onto your offhand. To keep things balanced with other firearms, when you dual wield handcannons you only gain bonuses from the one on your... Not off-hand...
Firearms fall under demolitions but for each point in Craftsmanship you get an extra 2% chance to hit using a firearm
I also think that when a bomb explodes you should only get half oyur materials back, making skills that salvage them more valuble.
fleshvirus
Take your Stupid Team fortress Elsewhere...
Cataclysm
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by fleshvirus
Take your Stupid Team fortress Elsewhere...
|
Upgrades for guns would be
~~Ammunition~~
Silencing
Sundering
Vampiric (It would have to break the 5:1 barrier to be useful, maybe 7:1)
Icy
Firey
Ebon
Shocking
Barbed
Piosionous
Cruel
Zealous (Maybe +2 energy considering the hella reload)
~~Barrels~~
Of Defence
Of Warding
Of Shelter
Of Monsterslaying
Of Fortitude
Of Demolitions
Of Enchanting
So for instance you get a gold Draconic Long Rifle and salvage it and get Sundering Ammunition or whatever.
~~Crossbows~~
Only 1 type of Crossbow
Piercing Damage 20-30
Range 1 Aggro circle
Reload Time 1.75 Seconds
2 handed
Upgrades:
~~Bolts~~
Silencing
Sundering
Vampiric (7:1?)
Icy
Firey
Ebon
Shocking
Barbed
Piosionous
Cruel
Zealous
~~Stocks~~
Of Defence
Of Warding
Of Shelter
Of Monsterslaying
Of Fortitude
Of Demolitions
Of Enchanting
Lordhelmos
I like the idea of multiple types of firearms for the engineer, but I am also leaning towards the engineer being a class that revolves around building skills, turrets, and bombs over firearms. I don't want to make the engineer class too firearm inclined. Hand cannons and crossbows are really just support weapons and skills for the engineer. Maybe a gunslinger or marksman class would be more inclined to have rifle specialties, since the single target shooting and reload times would make those kinds of weapons more inclined to sniperish skills. I also dont want to spend too much of the engineers roles to range firearms due to the ranger already dominating in that field with the bow. Great ideas though
I will definitely add you upgrades to the class description as well Cataclysm.
I will definitely add you upgrades to the class description as well Cataclysm.
Rikimaru
If you want it to be really unique, you could make the Engineer's weapon Black Powder Bombs. Just keap tossing out one after another..
Of course, you'd have to change the name of the skill version.
Of course, you'd have to change the name of the skill version.
Helll is for Heroes
we turning Guild Wars into Team Fortress?
Lordhelmos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rikimaru
If you want it to be really unique, you could make the Engineer's weapon Black Powder Bombs. Just keap tossing out one after another..
Of course, you'd have to change the name of the skill version. |
Also too many people are thinking too modern when approaching the subject of an engineer class. If I recall I dont see the stone summit engineers in irons mines wielding uranium churning rail drivers.
And no the object is not to turn Guildwars into team fortress but build on a fun concepts. Because blowing things up is always cool
actionjack
Here is my Engineer Concept Sketch.
Kattox1
I've always wanted a class like this since I first saw the shiverpeak dwarves... CHAPTER 4 VIKING DWARF ENGINEERS FTW!!! 
Cataclysm
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by actionjack
Here is my Engineer Concept Sketch. |
Rikimaru
Wow, aside from the helmet and lack of little tools scattered across it, that's pretty much just how I imagined the Engineer looking.
Nevermind, I see the tools now.
Nevermind, I see the tools now.
Cataclysm
Hmmm... In Nightfall PvP event I notice that ANet dislikes high damage potential 100% of the time (9-41 with a scythe?!) so I tweaked teh damage on teh guns a little
Zuranthium
I don't think building big turrets in the middle of battle is really viable but sticking with the bomb/gun/mechanical crossbow idea is definitely cool. STICKY BOMB!!!! LOL.
GD Defender
Sticky Bomb; 5 energy, 5 materials, 1/4 activation, 20 recharge.
Elite Attack. Lob a Sticky Bomb at target foe. If it hits, that foe is hexed with Sticky Bomb for 3 seconds. When this hex ends, all adjacent foes take 20...80 armor piercing damage.
Mwahaha. Sticky Bomb Spikes for the win!
EDIT: Materials don't seem completely necessary for this class if you treat each gadget as a "maintainable trap" that subtracts one energy regeneration.
Elite Attack. Lob a Sticky Bomb at target foe. If it hits, that foe is hexed with Sticky Bomb for 3 seconds. When this hex ends, all adjacent foes take 20...80 armor piercing damage.
Mwahaha. Sticky Bomb Spikes for the win!
EDIT: Materials don't seem completely necessary for this class if you treat each gadget as a "maintainable trap" that subtracts one energy regeneration.
Miliman
I really like this idea and all you haters bag'n on the idea of him building stuff outa materials he carry's...think about rangers...they got traps like Flame Trap...what they just throw a torch at someone? NO they magically make fire shoot up when they step on it...(MAGICALLY) if ya think about it Engineer isnt that unrealistic compared to some other stuff that goes on in guild wars.