Why are hammers the only 2-handed Warrior weapons?

b-M-d

b-M-d

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Philippines

Lycans of Moondash [WOLF]

After I started playing Guild Wars: Prophecies around 5 months ago, I noticed that hammers are the only 2 handed warrior weapon.

Why are there no 2 handed axes or 2 handed swords?

Sure, hammers are nice, but nothing says "Fear me!" better than a greatsword or a hefty 2 handed axe.

Also, why are katana's in Factions wielded in one hand? (A katana is not normally wielded in one hand, and never with a shield in the other)

Casters have 1 and 2 handed weapons under one attribute. I think that Warriors (and all other professions with Warrior secondary should have the choice between single and 2 handed weapons. The skills don't need much or possibly any changing. Save for maybe disabled shield related skills if wielding a 2handed sword or axe. Also, it would bring more variety and dynamics to the visuals.

What do you think?

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

becouse the warrior have only 4 attribute line , you dont expect using a single handed sword is the same as using a double handed sword?

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

old suggestion. please read the other threads

Isis Mordecai

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/W

the reason casters have two handed is a staff is basically a weapon/offhand in one slot which doesnt have armor like a shield does. So they can get away with using two hands, but a warrior's offhand(shield) has armor, i dont wanna see a double handed sword with armor:16 on it.

n not a katana with a shield oh no. never mind mythical creatures and big monsters with magical powers, but a katana and a shield? WTF?.....

b-M-d

b-M-d

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Philippines

Lycans of Moondash [WOLF]

But don't you think it would only take a minor tweak on the hammer wield system as far as graphics go, retain the skills for sword, minus the shield related ones.

I'm just saying, since there are hammers and they're two handed, why not even it out by making 1 and 2 handed weapons for sword, axe and hammer? even if they made the 2handed sword and axe dmg around the same as hammer, except that its slashing dmg and not blunt. its not that far fetched is it? :P

NatalieD

NatalieD

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Two-handed weapons would be unbalanced with one-handed weapons if they used the same skills. For it to work they'd have to make all new skills for the new weapons.

Omega X

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by NatalieD
Two-handed weapons would be unbalanced with one-handed weapons if they used the same skills. For it to work they'd have to make all new skills for the new weapons.
What's wrong with that. IT'll give more options and variety.

NatalieD

NatalieD

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega X
What's wrong with that. IT'll give more options and variety.
Oh, I'd be all for new skill lines. But that's a lot more work for Anet to do.

Don Zardeone

Don Zardeone

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

why not give swords and axes a +3 damage increase for use without shield?

Or give them 10% armour penetration for use without shield.
Or 5% to keep hammers on the same level.


No need to change skills if you just give up a shield for +5% ap
Add a few animations that make both hands hold the sword and voila...
They could even do it like longbows vs shortbows.

Shortswords would never be able to be used 2handed while the longsword class of swords could.
It would make shortswords less desired though.

The short class could be these:
- gladius, spatha, phoenix, etc

Long would be:
- fellblade, wingblade, zodiac, gothic, etc

for axes you could have light and heavy axes
light:
- spiked axe, war axe (small ones), celestial, zodiac, sickle (both), dragoncrest

heavy:
- hand axe(krytan, white scythe), gothic, gothic dual, sephis


..

zamial

zamial

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2006

Usa

TKC

N/

sounds like the start of a new class here.lets call em pikemen.
warriors with 2 handed weapons or spears...like an arrow with more damage and half the range.btw they should get assassin stat armor....

Extreme Days

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

Save The Dolyaks [NUKE]

Mo/Me

*cough* runescape

seriously... staffs are 2 handed, wands are 1 handed.. next thing you know ppl will want 2 handed wands..

making the sword or axe 2 handed would unbalance the game. the main reason people use hammers is for the knockdowns. why have a 2 handed axe? what would the attack speed be on it? the same as the hammer? less? more?

its too much of a hassle to add that crap when warriors are fine just the way they are.. if it isnt broken dont fix it.

prism2525

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

And also... see the damage output. 19-35 max for a hammer, 15-22 and 6-28 for sword and axe. It would be unbalanced for hammer wielders to have a shield too.

b-M-d

b-M-d

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Philippines

Lycans of Moondash [WOLF]

I don't think the skills would need much changing, because all the warrior skills for attacking only have pluses to damage, therefore, adding new weapons to the line up would not take that much work.

ex. Final Thrust: If final thrust hits you deal +1-32 damage, double damage if target's health is below 50%.

the skills can stay the same because it doesn't matter whether the sword is 1 handed or 2 handed.

Lets say a greatsword has the same damage as a hammer (19-35) only difference would be the type of damage, slashing. They could also easily make a 1handed hammer with the same damage as an axe, (6-28)but with blunt damage.

Therefore Final thrust could apply just as easily to a greatsword (19-35) +1-32 dbl when target is below 50% health and so on and so forth.

b-M-d

b-M-d

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Philippines

Lycans of Moondash [WOLF]

Prism, why would it be unbalanced for hammer wielders to have a shield?

I think its just a simple matter of making a single handed hammer which is actually just (programming wise) an axe as far as ammount of damage is concerned but blunt instead of slashing.

!!! aa !!!!

!!! aa !!!!

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

Aeser Mages [AM]

W/Mo

its a 2-handed weapon because if it wasn't it would be rigged if it could knock-dow like that...very exp. players can almost use a hammer better than a sword or an axe...and not becuz it does more dmg...it knock down so the target cannot cast so if u had a shield to it would be unbalanced!

Phades

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

This exists partially due to the theme of the skills behind the weapons, but it also falls to balance for base damage for each weapon. I highly doubt that anyone would pass up the chance for using a 14~15-46~56 damage axe. It would put the damage base up remarkably high.

Knock down skills make more sense with a large 2 handed weapon. Doing the same with a small 1h mallot doesnt make alot of sense. Although, they do have assassins knocking people over with daggers and 1 hand.... Meh

Kha

Kha

Sins FTW!

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Angel Sharks [AS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-M-d
I don't think the skills would need much changing, because all the warrior skills for attacking only have pluses to damage, therefore, adding new weapons to the line up would not take that much work.

ex. Final Thrust: If final thrust hits you deal +1-32 damage, double damage if target's health is below 50%.

the skills can stay the same because it doesn't matter whether the sword is 1 handed or 2 handed.

Lets say a greatsword has the same damage as a hammer (19-35) only difference would be the type of damage, slashing. They could also easily make a 1handed hammer with the same damage as an axe, (6-28)but with blunt damage.

Therefore Final thrust could apply just as easily to a greatsword (19-35) +1-32 dbl when target is below 50% health and so on and so forth.

This is probably the worst example you could've used. You should've picked a better skill to at least try to make your point seem valid.

The skills are balanced for the weapon damage they use. Final Thrust is meant for at the most a sword that does 15-22 damage. If you increase the damage of the sword, you are increasing the damage of the skill by a good amount, making warriors more powerful and unbalancing the professions. Warriors already do tons of damage if used right.

If a 2-handed sword and a 1-handed sword both had 15-22 damage for max, there really isn't any need to just add them in without logical reason. Anyone who would favor a 2-handed over a 1-handed and shield would obviously be playing just for looks and not for actual skill, and not many groups will want that. And to give 2-handed more AP or something like that to make up for not using a shield would unbalance the fighting system. It's providing more damage than what the skills and weapons are set for. Any warrior using 1-hand in PvP would be a noob, and any warrior using 2-hand in PvE would be a noob.

The reason that casters have wands and staves is that the damage doesn't change. Their skills don't rely on weapons to do the damage. Their weapons are for aiding magic use (recharge, spell cast, added energy, etc).

Now I'm all for two-handed swords and axes, but I'm in no rush for ANet to throw them in just cause I want them. I'll leave it up to them to decide if they want to figure out a way to balance them in (maybe with a new profession or something.)

You have to understand the skill and weapons are balanced the way they are. Changing things just cause it makes sense to you doesn't mean it will actually work in the game. If you really can't understand why there are no 2-handed weapons for Swordsmanship and Axe Mastery, or why there is no 1-handed hammer for Hammer Mastery, then you really need to read up on the skills and actually learn something about the game.

exiled mat

exiled mat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

The netherlands > friesland > balk

[JAMM] Justified Ancients of Moo Moo

E/Me

Let's shake the earth with your tiny onehanded hammer :P (earth shaker)

The system is "balanced" as it is, so don't screw it now :P

b-M-d

b-M-d

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Philippines

Lycans of Moondash [WOLF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
If a 2-handed sword and a 1-handed sword both had 15-22 damage for max, there really isn't any need to just add them in without logical reason. Anyone who would favor a 2-handed over a 1-handed and shield would obviously be playing just for looks and not for actual skill, and not many groups will want that. And to give 2-handed more AP or something like that to make up for not using a shield would unbalance the fighting system. It's providing more damage than what the skills and weapons are set for. Any warrior using 1-hand in PvP would be a noob, and any warrior using 2-hand in PvE would be a noob.
When did I say the damage would be equal? I didn't...and there you go with the grossly over used N word. I honestly hate that word and how its tossed around so wantonly in the game. No need to get insulting and hostile.

I was just thinking out loud. I was just an idea, which probably won't happen anyway. Gimme a break. and please lighten up.

jummeth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

London

Diary of a Madman [SiKK]

Why has no one thought of this...

If a 2h sword and 1h sword used the same skills, however if the 2h-sword is harder hitting but slower ... w/e

Just charge your adren on the faster hitting and higher def (due to shield) 1h-sword, adren full? Swap weapon Boom your adreno spike just got double damage.

The reason you can't do that effectively now is, if you switch weapon, due to lack of weapon mastery, your attacks effectively do no damage. Therefore balancing the extra attack rate and defence of the shield.


Its a bit like people frenzying when spiking to get their Evis and exe off in just under a second. You sacrifice a bit of defence for an attack power boost. Un-balanced.

shardfenix

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

Arenanet said they might incluse 2 handed swords/axes in later expansions.

prism2525

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-M-d
Prism, why would it be unbalanced for hammer wielders to have a shield?

I think its just a simple matter of making a single handed hammer which is actually just (programming wise) an axe as far as ammount of damage is concerned but blunt instead of slashing.
I meant that since two-handed hammers have larger damage output this must come at a cost (ie. less armor). If single-handed hammers are introduced the dmg must be lower and then it's ok to let them wield a shield. It's all about balancing.

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

Yea, the answer to the question is basically 'Because thats how they made it in the first place and its too late to change due to balance issues'

But I whole heartedly agree! there has always been a distinction betwee single handed and two handed swords in nearly every game that has ever used a sword.

As for trying to implement one into the existing system... well ANET are clever cookies im sure they could figure something out

The disadvantage to having a hammer (with its extra damage) is that you have no sheild, and therfore you lack some armor +mod. so it already has a natural balance element in it. ANET would just need to tweak it a bit more.

Normal max sword damage range.. maybe +10% damage always -15 armor when attacking. With the attack speed the same as hammer.

anyway, thats my thoughts.. I do look forward to some kind of two handed sword/axe at some point, maybe in a new class in the future.. Barbarian?

Imp

Imp

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Novum Igneus [NI]

Rt/

just rename hammer mastery to 2hand mastery, add some new skins and good day.

jummeth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

London

Diary of a Madman [SiKK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
Yea, the answer to the question is basically 'Because thats how they made it in the first place and its too late to change due to balance issues'

But I whole heartedly agree! there has always been a distinction betwee single handed and two handed swords in nearly every game that has ever used a sword.

As for trying to implement one into the existing system... well ANET are clever cookies im sure they could figure something out

The disadvantage to having a hammer (with its extra damage) is that you have no sheild, and therfore you lack some armor +mod. so it already has a natural balance element in it. ANET would just need to tweak it a bit more.

Normal max sword damage range.. maybe +10% damage always -15 armor when attacking. With the attack speed the same as hammer.

anyway, thats my thoughts.. I do look forward to some kind of two handed sword/axe at some point, maybe in a new class in the future.. Barbarian?
But you will get people who buid up adren with the 1h variant and then switch to the two hander when adreno spiking. Then switch back immediately.

You can't do this now because if you switch to hammer you prolly didn't have high sword mastery so you didn't do any damage when you were building adren, now you can have the best of both worlds. The fast adren build up of swords and Bastard Spike of a hammer.

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega X
What's wrong with that. IT'll give more options and variety.
Think about this practically. ANet will have to create a new skill line for EVERY other profession. ANd more balancing will need to be done. Which means the nerfing of many current skills, etc, etc, etc. It just goes on and on. Seriously its more trouble than its worth.

Kha

Kha

Sins FTW!

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Angel Sharks [AS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-M-d
When did I say the damage would be equal? I didn't...and there you go with the grossly over used N word. I honestly hate that word and how its tossed around so wantonly in the game. No need to get insulting and hostile.

I was just thinking out loud. I was just an idea, which probably won't happen anyway. Gimme a break. and please lighten up.
I only use noob jokingly. It was a sarcastic remark at how people are going to view 1-hand and 2-hand if they were implemented with some of the poor logic in game mechanics a few people have suggested.

And my post wasn't just in response to only your posts. I quoted your post but addressed some things other people brought up.

And no, I'm not going to give someone a break when they suggest a poorly thought out idea. I've probably done it before and I didn't expect people to give me pats on the back and just ignore me for typing before I think. This isn't the first time this has been suggested and probably won't be the last. If you are at least going to suggest something like this, truly think it over instead of just rushing in and saying stuff like

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-M-d
The skills don't need much or possibly any changing.

Adamant

Adamant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Oregon

Fiery Knights [FK]

E/

simple, just add new skins of 2 handed swords and axes, and put them under hammer mastery. Anet already has made a greatpick, so making other weapons under hammer wouldn't affect it too much. In addition, they should add things like hand maces under axe mastery, and, well, something else under swordsmanship. That way you can use the damage type of your choice (slash, pierce, blunt) and the skillset that you can use the best. Now naturally you cant have something blunt under swordsmanship simply because of the bleeding and deep wound skills. Also, Greatswords may not fit in because it would be hard to "knock-down" with a sword. Anet can figure it out, and keep their balance.

Cyril Aspect

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Boston

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamant
simple, just add new skins of 2 handed swords and axes, and put them under hammer mastery. Anet already has made a greatpick, so making other weapons under hammer wouldn't affect it too much. In addition, they should add things like hand maces under axe mastery, and, well, something else under swordsmanship. That way you can use the damage type of your choice (slash, pierce, blunt) and the skillset that you can use the best. Now naturally you cant have something blunt under swordsmanship simply because of the bleeding and deep wound skills. Also, Greatswords may not fit in because it would be hard to "knock-down" with a sword. Anet can figure it out, and keep their balance.

Um in reality they have swords that are not slashing dmg. Jiet sticks are blunt weapons that drop in factions.

and one axe skin does piercing dmg.

I support the pure vanity addition to the hammer line of swords pole axes etc.

as for small hammers if we ignore game balance for a moment you could easily knock someone down with one though its more because they are stunned then because the momentum pushed them over.

but game balance wise KD's with shields would be almost too good to ever pass up especially with the one handed attack speed.

Tien ak

Tien ak

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Crystal Indignation

R/W

Well I think all this talk of new models for hammers could work just change Hammer mastery to two handed mastery...or something like that and give loads more variety to weapons.

Obviously something for later explanions though...

But if you really want a two handed sword just be a W/Rt I think weapon spells for them are two handed swords.

Sphinx2k

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

good point there jummeth would be an easy way of getting that extra def from your shield well u wait for your skills to charge then just do a weapon switch to the harder hitting sword then just change back again after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-t-m
They could also easily make a 1handed hammer with the same damage as an axe, (6-28)but with blunt damage.
would be funny to see a one handded hammer warrior running around but would make hammer overpowerd, There is a reason the hammer is 2handed u r sacrificing that 16AL plus what other mods r on your shield for the ability to deal knockdowns.

Viperwire

Viperwire

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Elite Vipers Of Hell [EVOH]

Simple, They are big.

Martian

Martian

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Arse-end of no-where

Grey Mortals

Me/E

There is a double bladed staff for Nightfall (the third expansion) but it not for warrior.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

the 7th level of HELL! J/K Somewhere in GW assassinating things

[acid]members of the KAWS alliance

A/

I would love to see a greatsword at some point, big swinging sharp things are fun ^^. I think it would be nice if they could make a class where they damage damages opponents in an area but is less damage. something like hits foes adjacent to target, and max damage is like 12-19 with an attack every two secs.

gabrial heart

gabrial heart

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Las Vegas

Beautiful Peoples Club [LIPO]

Mo/Me

There's really no point to this. Warriors have already a larger assortment of weapons then any other profession. Not even sure what advantage there would be to having a 2 handed sword or axe or a 1 handed hammer. There are hammers with armor penatration and the like which they do a good bit more damage then swords and axes. As far as damage output, warriors have the highest damage per second output of any class, minus assasins with their tissue paper armor and correctly dealt combos.

Basically your just asking for asthetics, which for the most part is about as accurate as your going to get given the overall graphical dynamics of the game. Otherwise, your talking about a fully reconstructed gaming enviroment, which is becomming a natural progression for future chapters anyway. If your looking for variety, theres 8 classes, go play another one.

Zephyr Jackson

Zephyr Jackson

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kansas

E/Mo

Hey! Why dont we have 1 handed hammers! DRRRRR!

Please think about items before you actually post them

Skill would need to be Changed GREATLY for this to work, up the damage to the sword/axe skills and then probably nerf all existing shields, then everything might work.

kvndoom

kvndoom

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Communistwealth of Virginia

Uninstalled

W/Mo

It can be done without nerfs. 1 handed hammers would have to have faster attack speed but do less damage than they already do. 2-handed swords and axes would do more damage but swing slower. Your balance comes from choosing between slower attack and less defense for more damage per hit, or faster attack and more defense for less damage per hit. Anet would simply have to compute the optimal damage levels for the new weapons.

Sawkilla

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Marvel Comics

A/W

I agree with the above post from Doom....Why cant they add more weapons to all the professions,they could just balance it out with little tweaks...And by the way,all you (mad and angry people in this post) saying things like Anet cant do that, its already balanced..I dont know about the 1 handed hammer or 2 handed axe thing,BUT Anet is alreay talking about adding 2 handed swords(maybe for an expansion),whether it be for another profession or what...Ive been saying it from the start of prophecies,we the warriors need two handed weapons above any profession....Its more realistic of a powerful warrior weilding a 2 handed sword instead of a measley 1 hander with shield anyway.Just thought id add my two cents...Okay now tear my post apart like you do with everyone else with my same opinions.Another reason I dont like this forum,people are just plain out mean when they disagree.Play nice people,please remember,we are here to help each other and have fun

b-M-d

b-M-d

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Philippines

Lycans of Moondash [WOLF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawkilla
I agree with the above post from Doom....Why cant they add more weapons to all the professions,they could just balance it out with little tweaks...And by the way,all you (mad and angry people in this post) saying things like Anet cant do that, its already balanced..I dont know about the 1 handed hammer or 2 handed axe thing,BUT Anet is alreay talking about adding 2 handed swords(maybe for an expansion),whether it be for another profession or what...Ive been saying it from the start of prophecies,we the warriors need two handed weapons above any profession....Its more realistic of a powerful warrior weilding a 2 handed sword instead of a measley 1 hander with shield anyway.Just thought id add my two cents...Okay now tear my post apart like you do with everyone else with my same opinions.Another reason I dont like this forum,people are just plain out mean when they disagree.Play nice people,please remember,we are here to help each other and have fun
Well put, especially the last part..

Kai Nui

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

Why aren't there any one handed bows? If I used my mouth I'm sure I could...