Monitoring who contributes faction

BUMP

Any other thoughts anyone?

I didn't read all the posts but...

/signed
/signed
/signed

Our faction is starting to pick up and I'd like to know who's doing it to get them to encourage others to do this. I'll restate, if you don't like what YOUR GUILD is doing with this information, then join a guild that has no plans on controlling a town. Simple enough.

/signed

/signed - but only for leader.

/signed

bumpage

/notsigned

In all honesty there is already a system in place that can help you, the titles system. Certainly it isn't very accurate, but if you want to start being discrimanatory that would be the place to start, rather than a monitoring system.

I think a lot of players need to start realising that the demographic playing GW isn't as restricted as many of you seem to think it is. There are a good deal of working professionals who play for fun, we even play in "competitive" guilds, and there is no reason fo us to be threatened by the boot because we were on the other side of the world attending a conference for a week or two.

This is a BAD idea. Unlike the guild I'm in, not all guilds know their players. Not all guilds know what they can expect from their players, or what their players expect from them. Your "tool" is a means of dividing an already fractured system. People who don't know the leader all that well may no longer able to game EASILY with their friends because they got kicked from the guild, and all for what? not being able to contribute the full 50k that week because they decided to do overtime or had an important exam?

You say this will ONLY effect competitive guilds, I think you wrong. Any guild will be able to use AND abuse this feature, and they WILL. Already there are guilds that invite members, insist they contribute to GH, GH features, etc, and then kick them. This is just another tool in their hands to "justify" their abuse of other players.

The long and the short of it is that if you don't trust that other players in your guild are contributing enough, you currently have the decision to kick them. The real world, and the workplace, is built largely on trust. I do NOT have a cam monitoring my every keystroke in the office, if my colleagues think that I am not pulling my weight they tell me so.
If your alliance/guild is not performing well (in faction tally) then someone is not contributing. It is up to you as a leader/officer to find out who, why, and how to better accomodate the necessities that player might think they need in order to help contribute. You don't need a sheet of numbers before you that you can use to walk all over someone who: 1) possibly doesn't know better, or 2) cannot contribute to your ridiculous expectations.

If you are a leader or an officer you should be able to motivate your members to contribute without waving the "boot" over their heads. If you think you can't manage to win a town without resorting to intimidation techniques then I think you don't deserve to own a town anyway.

Guild Wars is a TEAM game. TEAMS need TRUST. If you do not trust your guildies, then perhaps you are in the wrong guild.

Not just for leader, leader and officers, because in some cases.. the leader is slacking too.

Glad to see this back up on the first page, since it is a good idea and it would be nice if more people would give their input about it.

I was recently invited to join a town holding guild. I thought about it until I found out about the 5k per day faction quota. Since I would not be joining in order to have access to Warden it wasn't worth it(yes it was a guild in the oOo alliance won't say which). There is no reason for me to be in a guild that demands faction farming when I'd just be joining to be part of a larger group. So, I had to decline the offer. I hope it isn't held against me, the guys I talked to on TS were very nice and I would like to continue questing with them in the future. It just wasn't for me.

Don't join guilds that have a quota if you don't plan on contributing, that simple. It says a lot of things about your personal character to do something like that, even though it is a video game.

I like the idea of Faction races though. For guilds such as the one I joined(I disbanded my guild to do it), that could be lots of fun. With rewards like whoever wins gets to pick the next guild hall, or some such thing. In order for that to happen, there would have to be a way for the leader and officers to moniter it.

You said it, titles are far too inaccurate to be useful. And who's to say that just because someone has a title that must mean that they will always contribute. For all we know he could have got that title months ago and not farmed since.

Surely most people would have the common sense to notify their leader that they're going to absent for a while.

I don't know what other guilds do, but I always let the people I recruit know exactly what's expected of them, and even if they have a sudden memory lapse they could ask again or look on our site. Without any monitoring system though, I might as well not bother for all the empty promises that I've had. And again, people would surely notify their leader if they were going to be on less for the week.

That's a bad example, as buying guild halls and guild hall upgrades is a one-time expenditure (unless you buy a new hall), whereas aquiring faction is a continuous process, due to the 10% degen every day. Only stupid guilds would recruit someone, get them to donate 10k faction and then kick them again.

Firstly, Guild Wars isn't like real life. Secondly, people don't get a salary for being in a guild, so there's no pressure to keep their place, or perform. Thridly, if you're in a guild with 60+ members, it's very hard to keep track of who's contributing and who isn't. Unless you are online ALL of the time and keep track of your faction total constantly, you'll never know who's given what. And If I were to question whether another player was doing anything, they can quite easily lie: 'Oh I already gave 5k today', and I would be none the wiser as I wouldn't know where our faction had come from. I could kick them, but then I might have been wrong. Say for example a guild has a requirment of 5k a day from every member, and 50k has been donated from 60 members, it's clear that a maximum of 20 have contributed. Leader asks who's donated, gets 40 replies of 'I have!', and he may have well not have asked for all the good it did.

The bottom line is that a large percentage of people who play guild wars are immature kids who don't understand/care about trust and commitment to a guild.

There's the key phrase there. Again, this all comes down to the guild you're in. If you don't want to farm faction, then don't join a faction farming guild, simple as that.

/notsigned ... what if you dont own factions? Get booted cos youre not "contributing".. naa that sucks

I do not believe that is the case. When I recieved the invite from the guild I won't name, I asked a lot of questions. The representaive told me that there are people in the guild that do NOT have Factions and may never get it. They are not required to farm Faction, since they cannot. They are not kicked for that inability.

You shouldn't join a guild that wants contributions if you are not able to make any. It is not fair to these other people that will be pulling your weight.

/not signed

Grind for this much faction a week just so your stupid guild which has 95 members and is in a 10-guild alliance can see some fireworks and get a 25% discount at merchants or whatever

So immature players who have been raised in a society quite different to that which players like myself were raised in. I've noted the manners of the younger generation leave something to be desired, so therefore it would be assumed that they do not know or understand that this type of communication is important.

You missed my point here. Uber Farming Guild A invites Uber Faction Farmer B into the guild. Mr/Ms. B farms his butt off, but he doesn't get along with Player X who has been in the guild much longer. After contributing a decent amount of faction, Uber Faction Farmer B is kicked from the guild because Player X no longer wants him in the guild. Mr/Ms. B asks why he/she was kicked, and is told that they weren't farming enough faction. Now Mr/Ms. B is smart and knows that Guild A's faction is largly due to HIS/HER contributions. This annoys Mr/Ms. B because they provided for the guild and in the end, after winning the guild a town has now be kicked from the guild. Leader of Guild A says - "Hey on this day, another play contributed more faction therefore Mr/Ms. B had to be kicked." Certainly, Mr/Ms. B would have been kicked regardless of faction tally, but in the eyes of "competitive guilds" who justify their behaviour by such means Uber Farming Guild A will appear to have a completely clean record and Mr/Ms. B will look like a griefer if they say or do anything about it.

Do you really think you are the only one out there? Oh we promise to help player x with xx next time. We will donate xk to the storage/skills/merchant service next time, yet we don't have a monitoring system for any of these things. If a player who needs help consistantly doesn't get it, they have to have the courage to speak up about it, the officer/leader has to consider the merits of the case and decide what, if anything, has to be done about it.
If people refuse to contribute funds for important service X once again it is up to the officers and leaders to decide what to do about it. We don't have a system by which we say, hey player A contributed less to the merchant service than player B, kick player A. Why? Because we understand that every player has access to different funds and can't always contribute "equally". This does not mean they do not contribute.

Please note that I was NOT the first one to draw the comparison to real life. If you don't like being repaid in kind you might want to think about removing it from your argument too.

[quote = Prince Daniel]...Any kind of organisation HAS to be able to monitor how people are contributing...[/quote]

Now before you get started I know perfectly well that this was not your post. However anyone who reads the entire thread will realise that both of you have very similar ideas on the subject and never once did you dispute his use of this statement. GW mirrors real life much closer than many players believe. In fact there have been a number of studies done as to HOW closely online games (particularly rpgs) mirror real life situations. There have even been suggestions of using "specially designed" online "games" to help "rehabilitate" people into society. But this is getting off-topic.

You believe that your guildies are lying to you. Certainly they are if they all say the contribute 50k a week and you have far less faction that 50k times the number of members you have (-10% per day). In fact my guild, indeed the alliance as a whole, was given quite a dressing down when we were greeted with the same response. We knew that people weren't fully contributing as much as we all would have liked, but the solution was not to sift through the numbers and victimise one player because they came in at the bottom of the tally. Instead we did all we could to make faction farming and AB FUN, to entice people into contributing. Guess what? It works. Our alliance holds a town most of the time. Sure there are times when contributions slip, but we don't wave hard numbers in front of our members. Guild members are people, not bots. There will be times when they get sick of FF or AB or whatever it is that you wish them to do, even in an uber competitive guild. Are YOU going to keep a tally of all those members who have had a bit too much of it all recently, keeping in mind that list might very well consist of over 50 people? Indeed from what you say, you don't know your members that well, there would be no way that you could keep that mental tally.

You want hard numbers so you can console yourself everytime you feel the need to boot someone,

that is your personal issue. How do you make a guild competitive without these measures, well I've already pointed that out. Even better, get to know your guild members, get your officers to know your guild members. Once you get to know people you would be amazed and how open many of the them may be, and how easy it will be for you to spot discrepencies in "apparent contributions". If you say you can't trust your officers... well one might wonder what they did to get their office in the first place...

My point is that competitive guilds do NOT need this. We are all doing just fine without it. It is just another tool to be abused by that large percentage of immature players you pointed out, who run around in the game.

/absence of caring

/signed ive given 40000 allready

Anything I said in reply to that would just be repeating myself.

/signed for leaders and maybe officers

I see no reason why this should not be an added feature

/signed

/signed

/signed

I would love that since I do not like keep taking screenshots and uploading them constantly to prove that I do or do not contribute

/signed, being in the Keys alliance I bet we have freeloaders

Why is it, that when someone puts together a coherent response to why they THINK something is a good or bad idea you get rubbish reponses? No attempt made to see either side, just the stance that "this is how I want it, so this is how it should be".

Yes, I talk a bit, yes I think a bit. Last time I check that was allowed on these boards.

As for freeloaders, with an alternative method for accessing the elite missions in the works, the desire of players to form and compete in alliances is going to fall. The rewards of holding a town are small enough as it is. Still want to hold a town? Then kick the guild that is contributing the least amount of faction, or least amount per person. Guild contribution statistics (as opposed to individual) would, IMHO, be very useful.

there will always will be freeloaders
that's life and can't be helped if there's no way to prove unless there's something like statistics to provide proof that one is a freeloader

hmmm maybe access to elite missions if you're a regular factions contributor?

*blink*
Hmm, what about variable faction titles. It would take the faction titles away from the "kind of big deal" (maybe add a new one for maintaining a high contribution over a certain period of time?), with this, personal contribution could then be a method of entry into the elite missions, as well as the titles helping (though not explicitly stating) the contributions of the individual.

For the reasons I've given in my posts I am against a hard number generator. This however, with a lot of work and thought, I could agree to.

/not signed
This only adds another level of elitism and discrimination.
Something Guildwars DOES NOT need.

Something that ppl should regulate, not a machine. There's the friend of titles for that, get them to msn a screenshot or something if you care so much

I Could not agree more!

That will be a great tool for me to monitor who of the lazy bastards in my Guild Wars Gold farming sweatshops is slacking on the bosses time, holding Cavalon and HzH is vital to my long term profit prognoses, you see, contolling them gives me control over rare skins so i can sell those for ingame gold and then sell that gold for hard currency again.

I might finally be able to see why my philipines sweatshop produces less gold then my chinese ones.

I commend your insight, Isgorathe Huang, i should have put up a petition like this one a long time ago myself. Now i can introduce a less then 150k faction in 14 hour day means no pay rule.

Thank you so much, if you ever need a job, maybe even as a supervisor just let me know alright?

amazing idea

Yeah, yeah, very funny. If I wanted over-exuberant sarcasm I would have bought a Jack Dee DVD.

Obviously anyone imposing ridiculous limits like that wouldn't have a guild by the end of the day. And who says people will use it solely to weed out slackers? (which it probably wouldn't be used for anyway) This system could also provide a means to recognising the outstanding contributors of the guild, and rewarding as necessary, to keep them happy and interested and also to encourage other to contribute. I know my guild currently has a similar system in place but it relies on the titles, which is inaccurate especially as someone could have farmed 240k with one guild, then 10k with my guild.

Of course, you could just kick the guild with the lowest faction total, but this is undesirable to some for many reasons, be it either they want to stick it out and make things work, or if you're in one of the top alliances, finding a top guild without an alliance is very unlikely. A monitoring tool would at least give the struggling guilds a foundation on which to build.

I don't quite see how a variable faction title would be any different to what I've suggested, in practice, and it wouldn't make life any easier for the leaders or officers if they wanted to check individual titles.

/Signed

This would be a great add on to the game. This way you could see who is contributing and who is not contributing. If you are pure ff guild then it is a hassle to see who has donated and who hasn't.

Nice idea, but the motive is wrong. I don't thing seeing who is not contributing Faction is good for the guild moral. Though a ladder of the top 10 contributors in the guild could encourage friendly competition for those interested.

/SIGNED!!!
This feature will be very helpful for guilds.

/signed /signed and /signed again

If someone thinks faction farming and holding towns is important, well, they're most likely (not all of them) under 12 and deserve to be monitored.

It would also dissuade players who play for fun and are not interested in repetitive, boring grinding from joining these guilds.

FF alliances have been the worst alliances I've been in. Ofc, I quickly realized that holding the capitals was not all it was cracked up to be.

It's ironic that some of the most selfish alliances around are FF alliances and they complain about "selfish" players. With the majority of players' in-game time spent on FF, there was little to no help for people who wanted to do quests/missions. The e-drama was also terribly childish. I'm sure you can wager a guess about the skill level of most of the players who spend most of their time FFing so I won't bother to detail that aspect of it.

/signed



If your guild leader abuses it to kick innocent people out unfairly, then I have no idea why you'd want to stay in that guild.

For FF Alliances, this is an excellent way to keep track.

Easy-going guilds that are for just fun can just ignore this feature.

And for guilds that aren't aiming to gain a town but would still like to keep a steady flow of faction, this feature can be an incentive to donate faction. You don't have to use this to kick members who aren't contributing. You can use this to award members who ARE contributing. Because those members that contribute faction consistently don't get much for it.

My wording sucks, I know. Please bear with me.

Obviously, you have never been in a faction-based guild. Our guild for example has a mandatory of 5k and 50k a week for officers, so it would useful to at least have some sort of tracking interface.

Anyways...
/signed from [Halo] I guess

/notsigned
I know that you guys say that there are guild that "won't care". But, once this is put in and the leaders/officers start seeing numbers, don't you think that'll have a psychological effect on them?
For example.......................
There's a guild that doesn't AB much and doesn't "care" right?
When the guild people see their "low" numbers, don't you think that'll give them the sense of "failure", "laziness", "lack of skill"?

This can then set in the Justification and Motivation system of the Imperial Age.
Justification:
Guild leader/officer sees the numbers. If so and so were kicked based on numbers... our justification will then be "laziness" of guild member.
Then this sets into Motivation.
If you want to enjoy the services of the guild, you better start faction farming. Also there's rewards at the end, plus, if you don't do enough we shall justify a reason to kick you.

Surely some people would like to see how much faction was given by someone, but I would think that they would set their eyes on their faction and compare to others as top priority.
If I got more faction than this guy... therefore, this guy is really useless...
It'll create bias opinions and have a good number of people using their numbers against each other.
I beat this guy in faction Mr. Guild Leader! I must get some prize now for my "good services". This guy, compared to me did nothing, he should be kicked.
Uh oh.......
Also this makes a point that guild leader/officers will say in their minds:
"You exist to serve me, and as a payment, get faction or suffer the consequences."
Not exactly the best guild environment...
Also, in the "calm" guilds, if the numbers don't really phase them, people who do join the guild and say they don't do shazbot for faction will force the leader start changing some things around.
Son of a bench! He/she is right! The reason people are leaving is because we don't do shazbot for faction!
BIGGER UH OH!
It'll just turn ugly, even though you guys say that there'll be calm guilds, there will be players who will want the competition of faction that will keep other members away from your guild.
Already happened to me (whoopee... not).
People join.... My guild had 85 faction (at our high point and we only had 10 active members. The rest I kicked for not being online for 2 months)

"Your guild and alliance doesn't have enough faction, this is crap."
"I agree with this guy, your guild doesn't have faction."
"Since everybody is leaving because of faction, I might as well too"
"You need to AB more or I'll have to leave."
"I want Cavalon... start ABing"

And yes, those were things said to ME, the guild leader. Of course, I tried to get people to AB. People left because nobody really wanted to do it and gave themselves the image that the guild sucks because no one does anything.
It's not cool.....

/not-signed

ninja's deserve their freedom

ninjas?
Dude, I think you better edit that post before it gets whaled on...

Yeah, pls edit the ninja post, it cinda annoys me for being so untrue><
(Well, they do deserve it, but they never had it... Ahh I can't really be more off-topic so to the point)

And I really think this would be a nifty feature, but it should be improved so that if your guild doesn't want it, you shouldn't have it!
This illiminates the stress factor.

This is because you should NEVER punish members, unless you agree with the guild that staying at the top is required weeky doses of faction...
If you don't agree, you prob shouldn't join such top (faction) guild, speak with your leader, or take other actions.
Maby add this as a thing you can buy to gh, but instead of money you buy it via getting x mil faction in your alliance (or something like that).

I also like the "top 10" idea, though it should be bigger, like 30 atleast. This is because I really don't like ppl to leeach the biggest guild, nor do I want elitism because of this to appear. So adding something that would prob trigger members to get faction, and that's a good idea, while still monitoring it in some degree... If there is a system like the challenge missions, daily basis (or weekly), monthly, all time.


Again...
/signed from [Halo]

Btw, if your guild thinks you "lack skill" because of you are not getting faction, I would change guild in a split sec!
Not gaining faction is not even remotly the same as lacking skill in GW!!!
We have activation time, and a GvG ladder, right?
We are not even ranked, even though we are a top faction alliance, but that only means we don't spend time at GvG, the same would be implemented in guilds that don't reach for big faction... But then again, maby not because it's personal.

I thought moitoring was a good idea but now that youve explained it that way i dunno, i can imagine this happening to my guild...(even though we dont give a flunk about faction)

you can live knowing your post changed my mind