real simple, major vig is like 5-8k and superior is a RETARDED amount for the extra 9 points of life.like 9 points is gonna save ya....lol.
please increase super vigor to make it worth the money, like 60-75 health bonus instead of 50....
superior vigor needs help
zamial
esteth
IMHO, this is useless. if they increase the health benefit, the price goes up because people know its better. the price is high because its the very best. a little like an almost perfect sundering bowstring is worth almost nothing compared to a perfect one. who's gonna notice that 1% difference? no-one, but its not "the best" so its not good enough.
Janus_Zeal
Esteth has a point. It's ridiculously expensive because it's the best there is.
Personally, I've been in situations where 9 extra health meant the difference between life and death so I feel that it's sufficient.
/unsigned
Personally, I've been in situations where 9 extra health meant the difference between life and death so I feel that it's sufficient.
/unsigned
zamial
it just seems silly that a major vigor rune, now more than cancels out another major rune and a super doesnt have even close to that power......for this reason i would like it changed.
balance is a good thing.
balance is a good thing.
bilateralrope
zamial, the rune prices work on a supply and demand model. If enough people feel the price is too high that drops demand, causing the price to drop. IF you increase how much health it gives you would raise demand, forcing the price up even further. Especially since it seems that it isn't easy for ANET to retroactivly alter the stats of existing items because of what happened with the major rune change and the already existing ones stayed unchanged.
And then you must consider how it would alter the balance in PvP.
/unsigned
And then you must consider how it would alter the balance in PvP.
/unsigned
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zamial
it just seems silly that a major vigor rune, now more than cancels out another major rune and a super doesnt have even close to that power......for this reason i would like it changed.
balance is a good thing. |
Zui
Ok, the balance of it is fine now. Increasing that won't matter.
How about you edit your post and suggest an increase in Superior Vigor drops? That would cause the price to go down(like it did with superior abs runes). If you pay less for the same health, it's the same as your suggestion essentialy, just it doesn't screw over the balance of the game.
How about you edit your post and suggest an increase in Superior Vigor drops? That would cause the price to go down(like it did with superior abs runes). If you pay less for the same health, it's the same as your suggestion essentialy, just it doesn't screw over the balance of the game.
Slainster
yeah.. i was little dissappointed at first by the amount sup vigor gives, but i think its at the right value.. /unsigned
!!! aa !!!!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zui
Ok, the balance of it is fine now. Increasing that won't matter.
How about you edit your post and suggest an increase in Superior Vigor drops? That would cause the price to go down(like it did with superior abs runes). If you pay less for the same health, it's the same as your suggestion essentialy, just it doesn't screw over the balance of the game. |
LOL! sup abs went down from 100k to 3.5k!!! that's pathedic....
Tarun
I agree that it should be higher. 9 points extra health is pathetic really. It's superior, so it should be able to offset one superior rune. So make superior vigor give +75 health, so people can actually use a -75 superior and not worry too much. That's real balance.
/signed
/signed
shadowfell
/signed
Just because.....
Just because.....
CartmanPT
/not signed
imo its ok at 50 hp
i used to think the same, but after i got one there have been a lot of times i´ve ended a fight/run with 1 or 2 hp, if it happens so many times that justify the diference in prices, dont know, but im happy to have one
imo its ok at 50 hp
Quote:
| like 9 points is gonna save ya....lol. |
Sphinx2k
Major/Superior Absorbtion is only a difference of -1dmg and it use to be a 90+k differeance til that patch which incresed there drop rate, Yet ppl would still buy them. Only reason Superior Vigors ramin at a high price range is becuz you can use them on any of the 8 classes unlike the absorbtion runes, I think the +9hp differenace is more then enough to qulify it as a superior rune but that just my opion. If they were to make it 69-75hp for a superior that would totaly negate the affect of one superior or almost 2 majors with very little to no consequence for those extra attribute points u gain out of it.
/un-signed
/un-signed
Burakus Lightwing
I've felt they should be increased to at least 60HP for a LONG time now.
/signed
/signed
Dougal Kronik
/signed
Set them to +60HP would really classify them as Superior.
Set them to +60HP would really classify them as Superior.
Draconis
/signed
I wholeheartedly agree.
Either this or just up the drop rate.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Either this or just up the drop rate.
Dr Strangelove
/notsigned
If you make it worth more health, more people will find it worthwhile to buy it.. and thus price will go up more.
If you make it worth more health, more people will find it worthwhile to buy it.. and thus price will go up more.
Bane of Worlds
/unsigned
it would unbalance the game why would you want a sup vig to negate another sup rune's penalty or negate 2 maj runes and then some health left would ruin the game and your argument about the high price is broken since the new sup vig runes would be very popular for it's new health bonus
it would unbalance the game why would you want a sup vig to negate another sup rune's penalty or negate 2 maj runes and then some health left would ruin the game and your argument about the high price is broken since the new sup vig runes would be very popular for it's new health bonus
Dougal Kronik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eve The Sorceress
/unsigned
it would unbalance the game why would you want a sup vig to negate another sup rune's penalty or negate 2 maj runes and then some health left would ruin the game and your argument about the high price is broken since the new sup vig runes would be very popular for it's new health bonus |
Then the new Canthan armours with the Health bonuses has severely unbalanced the game. We're talking +10 HP difference to the Superior Rune of Vigor. The new armour has +35 Health bonus!
Balance argument has absolutely no ground to stand on!!!!
Greedy Gus
merchant cost has nothing to do with rune balance.
Bane of Worlds
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
Unbalance the game - what a bunch of crap!!!
Then the new Canthan armours with the Health bonuses has severely unbalanced the game. We're talking +10 HP difference to the Superior Rune of Vigor. The new armour has +35 Health bonus! Balance argument has absolutely no ground to stand on!!!! |
you sacrificed other bonuses for extra health like how you could get that fort mod or a sundering mod
see?
Tarun
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
Unbalance the game - what a bunch of crap!!!
Then the new Canthan armours with the Health bonuses has severely unbalanced the game. We're talking +10 HP difference to the Superior Rune of Vigor. The new armour has +35 Health bonus! Balance argument has absolutely no ground to stand on!!!! |
Dougal Kronik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eve The Sorceress
you haven't realized it have you?
you sacrificed other bonuses for extra health like how you could get that fort mod or a sundering mod see? |
Still don't see where +10 Health on a Superior Rune of Vigor would be unbalanced.
Care to explain it - with some examples of exactly what you are talking about.
Bane of Worlds
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
So I replace my Ranger's Senty's Leggings and loose the +10AL (while in a Stance) and wear Explorer's Leggings for +10 Health bonus - I think I have realized it.
Still don't see where +10 Health on a Superior Rune of Vigor would be unbalanced. Care to explain it - with some examples of exactly what you are talking about. |
it takes some amount of time to alter it to have +60 health and that +10 health is only minor and unimportant because you have other ways to get more health and that time to change +50 to +60 is better spent elsewhere
see how long it's taking Anet to give everyone that armor update?
that update of changing existing armors to reflect the change of stats from armor crafters is needed more and a must for those who spent cash on dragon armor which may sit at 85AL for a while the new dragon armor are at 90AL
EternalTempest
/not signed
It would drive the price up and I do feel that things are well balanced now.
It would drive the price up and I do feel that things are well balanced now.
Arkantos
Sup abs was -1 more dmg then major abs. did it make a huge difference? no. But the difference in price was just wow. And sword pommel of fort, there used to be a big difference between +29 and +30hp. 1 extra hp and it was a massive difference.
/notsigned
/notsigned
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tarun
I agree that it should be higher. 9 points extra health is pathetic really. It's superior, so it should be able to offset one superior rune. So make superior vigor give +75 health, so people can actually use a -75 superior and not worry too much. That's real balance.
/signed |
thats real bs
you want to give a +3 attribute point boost for free.
balance is adding here and removing there.
not worry at all is what you actually mean
Dahl
/not signed
first of all most of you who signed probably only signed because you can't afford one due to being poor.
second of all, you're saying that since a +20 sword pommel of fortitude is worth maybe 100g, a +30 sword pommel of fortitude should be 1-2k? I mean come on, it's ONLY 10 health, right?
Yes, 9 health is a small amount, but it STACKS! Same with runes, you think 1 point is going to change the face of the match? no. But it STACKS!
first of all most of you who signed probably only signed because you can't afford one due to being poor.
second of all, you're saying that since a +20 sword pommel of fortitude is worth maybe 100g, a +30 sword pommel of fortitude should be 1-2k? I mean come on, it's ONLY 10 health, right?
Yes, 9 health is a small amount, but it STACKS! Same with runes, you think 1 point is going to change the face of the match? no. But it STACKS!
Undivine
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
you want to give a +3 attribute point boost for free.
balance is adding here and removing there. not worry at all is what you actually mean |
Bane of Worlds
well from the logic of say have a sup rune negate the penalty another sup rune then you have yourself a problem
from this logic one must think that a revision on the maj vig is also needed which is a bad idea
one, you have to change the +41 from maj vig to +35 to match the concept behind that it should negate the penalty
two, you would only drive up the price to the point where it would cost close to 100k which means the argument of how the price of items isn't fair invalid
so you would still complain about it
from this logic one must think that a revision on the maj vig is also needed which is a bad idea
one, you have to change the +41 from maj vig to +35 to match the concept behind that it should negate the penalty
two, you would only drive up the price to the point where it would cost close to 100k which means the argument of how the price of items isn't fair invalid
so you would still complain about it
Ristaron
I am in favour of the sup. vigor being increased healthwise.
Major AND Superiod vigor runes should be increased.
30/40/50 is nowhere near enough unless all you're using is minor runes.
Most of my pvp builds use more than one major runes... more often a major and a superior. The combined -125 health is nowhere near compensated with my puny +50 hp sup vigor rune.
Even my PvE chars... I wouldn't pay double the price for a superior rune when the major is only slightly less efficient. I got one in a drop the other day and immediately sold it for two reasons:
1. I could buy a major for a fraction of the cost a superior used to rack in.
2. The price was going down fast, I'm lucky I caught the market in the high 30k's. What are they now... 9k?
/signed for increasing major and superior (50 and 75 respectively so as to offset the penalty of the other runes).
Major AND Superiod vigor runes should be increased.
30/40/50 is nowhere near enough unless all you're using is minor runes.
Most of my pvp builds use more than one major runes... more often a major and a superior. The combined -125 health is nowhere near compensated with my puny +50 hp sup vigor rune.
Even my PvE chars... I wouldn't pay double the price for a superior rune when the major is only slightly less efficient. I got one in a drop the other day and immediately sold it for two reasons:
1. I could buy a major for a fraction of the cost a superior used to rack in.
2. The price was going down fast, I'm lucky I caught the market in the high 30k's. What are they now... 9k?
/signed for increasing major and superior (50 and 75 respectively so as to offset the penalty of the other runes).
Ensign
Superior Vigor doesn't compensate for anything, you're going to use it whether you'd be using a major/superior attribute rune or not. There's nothing magic about 480 HP.
Increasing the health granted by a superior vigor rune would simply be a global health bonus to all characters.
If you're using too many superior and major runes, and your health is dangerously low because of it - use less major and superior runes. Is it really that hard?
Peace,
-CxE
Increasing the health granted by a superior vigor rune would simply be a global health bonus to all characters.
If you're using too many superior and major runes, and your health is dangerously low because of it - use less major and superior runes. Is it really that hard?
Peace,
-CxE
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Undivine
Well actually, you are essentially using up 2 armor slots to gain that +3 unhindered. Though I don't think ANet would make it +75. Maybe +60.
|
i thought when you applied the rune to the armor it didnt take up any more space.i was refering to the vigor at 75 canceling out the penalty for using a superior rune completely.
you would have +3 attribute without any health penalty
i dont see how it could take up 2 slots
you will use a vigor rune and the other one i am assuming whatever the health costs is.
Renegade ++RIP++
/signed
and i can afford a sup vigor, even if the price jacked up to 100k +500 ecto..., i'd just not invest in it.
and loviathar, it would cancel out 1 sup, but not using the sup rune would give you a higher healthlevel. So in the end it would all be balanced, its just that the balance would just shift from the balance we have now, to a new balance, but it will remain balanced.
PS: he prolly meant that using these 2 runes would cost you 2 spots you could have used otherwise for other runes. Runes which i really hope to see surfacing up in hte near future.
and i can afford a sup vigor, even if the price jacked up to 100k +500 ecto..., i'd just not invest in it.
and loviathar, it would cancel out 1 sup, but not using the sup rune would give you a higher healthlevel. So in the end it would all be balanced, its just that the balance would just shift from the balance we have now, to a new balance, but it will remain balanced.
PS: he prolly meant that using these 2 runes would cost you 2 spots you could have used otherwise for other runes. Runes which i really hope to see surfacing up in hte near future.
Jeremy Untouchable
/signed, i agree with uping the hp on sup runes, and major as well, should be at least 60, or even 75 health, and up the drop rate. i never understood why a sup rune that granted a skill increase was -75, yet a sup rune that granted a health increase is only 50...come on, dosnt even make since, and no i'm not poor, i have 4 sup vigors and 2 sup absorbs bought back in the day,( 6 months ago)
M C H A M M E R
/signed
I was on a maj vig + abs running most shiverpeaks flawlessly. I don't think it would unbalence anything
I was on a maj vig + abs running most shiverpeaks flawlessly. I don't think it would unbalence anything
master_of_puppets
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arkantos
Sup abs was -1 more dmg then major abs. did it make a huge difference? no.
|
As for the debate: Was the whole point of major/sup vig runes really to cancel out the health drop caused by other major/sup runes? And also, not every one uses sup runes, depending on what build you-re running, the health drop may not be worth it if you'd rather have more hp than slightly better skills. If a 9 hp difference isnt enough, I don't see how a 20 hp difference will be so godly anyway as to make it "worth" the price.
/not signed
Zui
The balance argument does.
The + health on armor is a trade off for other bonuses, like + 10 al versus physical. Superior vigors/absorbs have no trade off except the cost. Which is only relavent to vigors anymore. Cost does not effect balance. Stats do. If there's no trade off for increased stats, and the health penalty from other superior runes/major runes stay the same, you've altered the balance, just so a rune will be worth more.
Great Idea, and for the record, /notsigned
The + health on armor is a trade off for other bonuses, like + 10 al versus physical. Superior vigors/absorbs have no trade off except the cost. Which is only relavent to vigors anymore. Cost does not effect balance. Stats do. If there's no trade off for increased stats, and the health penalty from other superior runes/major runes stay the same, you've altered the balance, just so a rune will be worth more.
Great Idea, and for the record, /notsigned
shadowfell
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dahl
/not signed
first of all most of you who signed probably only signed because you can't afford one due to being poor. |
Nice blanket statement and sadly, very untrue..
Riccari
/notsigned
I don't see a problem with it as 50. 'If it ain't broke don't fix it.'
I don't see a problem with it as 50. 'If it ain't broke don't fix it.'