Remember the game is called Guild Wars not Cookie-Cutter wars - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Desert Penguin

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/Mo

11 Jun 2006 at 15:26 - 1

I was in Random arenas yesterday with a build I designed myself: a Warrior/Ranger with a pet that uses Poisonous Bite. I found this build very effective, and won 16 times in a row using this build. My team members were complementing me a lot for my ability to harass enemy monks using bleeding and poison for -7 Health degen.

So here it goes: after we were defeated on the 17th match, my team was transported to Team Arenas. One of my team members was a cookie-cutter SS Necro, and he was asking what build the other team members were using. The monk said "I am a Boon Protect", and the necro was cool with it (Boon Prot = Cookie Cutter). The Mesmer on my team said "I'm a Migraner" and the Necro was cool with it (Migrainer = Cookie Cutter). Then I said "I am a Poison/Bleeding warrior with a pet". When the Necro found out I did not use a cookie-cutter build, he went BESERK, he said "OMG u n00b u sux so so bad!!" and left the game. Well if my character build was so "noobish", why did we win 16 times in a row and why were my team members (including the necro himself) complementing me for my good degen damage? Notice he liked my build until he found out it was not cookie cutter.

I do not appreciate people who can *only* use builds that everybody else uses, such as that SS Necro. I bet all that Necro ever does is go into observer mode to look at other people's builds. He simply cannot design anything himself. My point is this: If you are somebody who cannot design builds for yourself, that is okay, but do not flame people who *do* design things for themselves. I always have faith in people who design their own builds, and I have been succesful in teams even when nobody uses cookie-cutter.

Please, learn something from this and do not be like that silly SS necro who goes nuts if people do not use a cookie-cutter build. Thank you

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

11 Jun 2006 at 15:29 - 2

You see that in PvE too. True and tried, cookie cutter builds are the safest way to go.

Typically you see... 2 Warrriors, 2 Monks, Minion Master, Nuker (or two), and filler.

led-zep

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

11 Jun 2006 at 15:35 - 3

you won 16 in a row or whatever because your TEAM was doing well not because of your oh so amazing 'one of a kind' *cough seen it before* build. and whos to say the necro hasnt modified his ss build so it isnt 'cookie cutter'. you seem very suited to pvp.

KvanCetre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Madison Scouts

E/Mo

11 Jun 2006 at 15:36 - 4

Question: Why do people only play cookie-cutter builds and call those that don't use them noobs?
Simple answer:
People are idiots.

Don't get too worried about it... there are hundreds of skills for a reason.

Desert Penguin

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/Mo

11 Jun 2006 at 15:42 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

you won 16 in a row or whatever because your TEAM was doing well not because of your oh so amazing 'one of a kind' *cough seen it before* build. and whos to say the necro hasnt modified his ss build so it isnt 'cookie cutter'. you seem very suited to pvp.

I did not say that my build was the #1 prime reason that we won 16 times in a row. And I never said my build was "oh so AMAZING", I just said it was effective, thats all. Stop exaggerating.

And yes, I make up 25% of of my team so I did influence how the team went.

So you have seen a build similar to mine? That's good, it is nice to see people designing new things. And as for the SS Necro, he used Arcane Echo + Spiteful Spirit, which is VERY typical. Do not try to tell me that is not cookie-cutter.

KvanCetre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Madison Scouts

E/Mo

11 Jun 2006 at 15:42 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

You see that in PvE too. True and tried, cookie cutter builds are the safest way to go.

Typically you see... 2 Warrriors, 2 Monks, Minion Master, Nuker (or two), and filler.

I leave groups that won't take an assassin. As a monk, they usually bend to my "demand". Sure, its abusing my position, but as an assassin myself, I won't tolerate the hate.

Two MM teams with missions that have plenty of corpses are insanely powerful. 2 War, 2 Monk, 2 Nec(MM or SS), Ele, Ritualist.
Poor mesmers/assassins/rangers

When I lead groups, I usually take the first people to invite themselves... think the only mission we lost the entire time was one of the ascension missions and Hell's Precipe.

General Surena

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Germany

None

W/

11 Jun 2006 at 15:43 - 7

Let people play, copy, imitate whatever they want. The originality you try to emphasize throughout your posting is none at all. Never moan about the intention behind using a specific build. A game is meant to be fun so people try to enjoy it in the way they believe it suits them best. As long as it's no broken mechanic or an exploit they make use of, it's never a bad thing.

People like that Necro just exist, from the lowest ranks to the highest. It's just there and the best thing is to ignore these people and let them live in their pityful illusion.

Kizukaseru

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

11 Jun 2006 at 16:00 - 8

When on earth did "cookie-cutter" and "efficient" become synonymous?

Eviance

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Eh I forget... o_O

Biscuit of Dewm [MEEP]

R/

11 Jun 2006 at 16:02 - 9

My brother LOVES his necro and he loves running blood spike... But anytime we doing anything in pve he is wanted to play it as MM or SS - this kinda bugs him... We RARELY ask him to bring his warrior or any of his other 8characters (2accts)...

I don't mind an assassin personally if they know what they are doing... there is still about 60-75% that still have no clue. I dont claim to be the best assassin but I make sure to take a self heal and I pop it every time it recharges if I am playing tank. A friend of mine... -_- He's very rash in his Sin playing... He tanks and cannot keep himself up.

I typically play a ranger, and thankfully my husband is a monk, so I don't have issues getting a group when I go with him. I am a decent ranger, by my own rights and I have a decent necro too, I just wish I could sit down with her to figure out some new builds.

I hate cookie cutter builds but if in general the group asks for it I will run it. I think the best necro build I ran was a hex build... I had SS, Faintheartedness, soul barbs and some other stuff... Poor warrior would come in to kill me, I would spam hexes on him, he would take two swings and run away lol. It was funny! My husband generally allows people to run whatever they want, if it goes bad we tweak, and most times after 2rounds of tweaking it almost becomes cookie cutter, but it works ya know?

We do at least try different builds and such. You build isn't new, I too have seen in before and with a full team of warriors as beast masters its pretty nasty! Good luck, there is nothing wrong with trying new builds... People didn't come up with the cookie cutter builds without trying different things! Some people just aren't smart enough to realize that.

eternal pho

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Licious Fame Farmers {TLG}

W/E

11 Jun 2006 at 16:56 - 10

Well new builds come up once in a while and all cookie cutter builds must come from somewhere..

floplag

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

SoCal

Gamerz United

Me/N

11 Jun 2006 at 17:04 - 11

i love people that play cookie cutter builds, they are the easiest to beat

Kaldor Meshekal

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

England

Rt/N

11 Jun 2006 at 17:12 - 12

A classic example of people who refuse to think for themselves. Obviously they find the brain work, if it could be called that, too taxing to make a build themselves, so they trawl through forums such as these and copy, rinse, and repeat.

Someone actually left my Guild when I trounced his cookie-cutter Warrior tank build in a 1 v 1 scrim. Called me a 'noob' becaue I came up with my own Warrior build. His loss.

Alathys Tylderaan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Uk

Check Out My [Mark]

Me/

11 Jun 2006 at 17:41 - 13

For PvE, only A-Net can move the metagame, so let's hope we get more quests/missions with mobs that don't leave corpses

But for PvP, players can dictate FotM builds by making counters. If you're tired of people running the same builds, make something the can counter them, and tell people about it, and thus the metagame moves on.

Now that I've explained what Meta-Game means...

Yeah that necro was stupid.

aB-

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jun 2006 at 17:52 - 14

This problem arises in nearly every game. What people want are effective builds, and let's be honest, cookie-cutter builds ARE effective. I'm not saying they aren't more effective builds in existance, but simply put, cookie-cutter builds work well.

Part of the problem is the masses do not support "different" builds. You see people spamming "GLF MM necro, SS necro". Well, if you are a necromancer, it can be hard to get in a group if you claim you are something other than an MM or SS necro.

Vermilion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

NY

11 Jun 2006 at 17:53 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizukaseru

When on earth did "cookie-cutter" and "efficient" become synonymous?

Well the OP called a Boonprot build a cookie-cutter, and those are run..well..
everywhere. (for a reason)

It doesn't really matter to me what people are using typically, but I've never really seen any of the aforementioned "build bashing". For farming, I have never felt like finding new places to farm, or thinking of builds myself, so in that sense I do use "cookie cutter" builds. For PvP, I usually take an existing build and change it..my first time trying to run a monk, I had no idea what I was doing..("Whats Energy Management?") Take from all that what you will...I'm just glad no one noticed me using Balanced Stance in THK. <.<

Eviance

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Eh I forget... o_O

Biscuit of Dewm [MEEP]

R/

11 Jun 2006 at 17:58 - 16

Heck I find it amusing when people are willing to take my crappy MM skills over someone who might possibly have an excellent build.

The reason the cut back on the amount of corpses we could exploit was because had they not we really would have been running through all zones with about 6million minions in our wake. I play ranger so often that when I do MM, suddenly I have my 10minions and the next thing I know I have none and few corpses left to make something of.... >_> I forget I am an MM really easily

Guardian of the Light

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Radicals Against Tyrants

W/

11 Jun 2006 at 18:53 - 17

Well the reason people only take cookie cutter builds most of the time because even though there are a lot of non-cookie cutter good builds out there, there are more bad non-cookie cutter builds. (i.e I'M AN MM W/N!, NOTHING CAN STOP MY MENDING WARRIOR!, I'm a Me/W....SPELL SLASHER!!, Ha Ha I'm a KD/AS....E/W!!! FC ECHO MENDING FTW!)

And if they would use their brain and seperate these good builds from the bad they might screw up because they brain has been fried from work/shcool.

Huntmaster

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

I is not canadien

Guillotine Tactics [GanK]

R/

11 Jun 2006 at 18:57 - 18

Omfg, OP, why weren't you running Eviscerate/TF build!

Kizukaseru

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

11 Jun 2006 at 19:04 - 19

Guys there is a REASON you see these builds everywhere.

it is because they work

primal98

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

11 Jun 2006 at 19:05 - 20

My favorite build is Necro-Assain, using deadly arts and blood spells to drain, poison and knock down foes w/ 2 sigs to keep attackign even after mana is gone

Amazingly it works well

When I play PvE though, I see myself switching to MM to be able to get into groups... that or just saying Im an SS and using the build I mentioned.... hehehe its not like anyone ever notices

~prime

Sagaris

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands.

11 Jun 2006 at 19:06 - 21

Wait, just to get this really clear, cookie-cutter is 'standard build'?

EF2NYD

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jun 2006 at 19:07 - 22

shock war ftw

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

11 Jun 2006 at 21:23 - 23

Websites like this tend to encourage cookie-cutter builds because there's an entrie sub-section dedicated to sharing builds. Cookie-cutter builds are what make PvP in GW boring. You see a W/E, Mo/E, W/E, Mo/E and you can be 95% certain that it is dual Smite. You see a multitude of N/Mo... its a blood spike team. W/R, W/R, W/R, R/Me - its IWAY.

Face it, its boring. It quashes peoples' imagiations on makes then less spontaneous because rather than using their brains, they can just copy a pre-made build and start farming that sought-after fame. It has even got to the point where people are shunned for not choosing a cookie-cutter build that has been tried and tested to its death. In HA we all know that there is a high level of elitism amongst some players and you are at serious risk of being looked down upon for not conforming to a cookie-cutter build. It sucks but there's nothing that can be done about it.

Kizukaseru

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

11 Jun 2006 at 21:37 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Websites like this tend to encourage cookie-cutter builds because there's an entrie sub-section dedicated to sharing builds. Cookie-cutter builds are what make PvP in GW boring. You see a W/E, Mo/E, W/E, Mo/E and you can be 95% certain that it is dual Smite. You see a multitude of N/Mo... its a blood spike team. W/R, W/R, W/R, R/Me - its IWAY.

Face it, its boring. It quashes peoples' imagiations on makes then less spontaneous because rather than using their brains, they can just copy a pre-made build and start farming that sought-after fame. It has even got to the point where people are shunned for not choosing a cookie-cutter build that has been tried and tested to its death. In HA we all know that there is a high level of elitism amongst some players and you are at serious risk of being looked down upon for not conforming to a cookie-cutter build. It sucks but there's nothing that can be done about it.

Why does it suck? What's wrong with efficiency? What's wrong with what works?

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

11 Jun 2006 at 21:45 - 25

Monotony sucks. Variety is the spice of life.

You're right, they are effiecient builds which makes them successful but its annoying to see the same builds over and over again. I don't know if its a personal thing or part of my culture, but I find it extremely strange to see so many unimaginative 'followers' in one place.

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

11 Jun 2006 at 21:58 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizukaseru

Guys there is a REASON you see these builds everywhere.

it is because they work

Eh, well...thats actually debatable. In the hand of a good player it might work, cookie cutter builds also have fairly well understood and obvious counters whereas an original or semi-original build might be much harder to counter.

Just remember that using a cookie cutter build doesnt make a good player which is a mistake I see a lot of people making.

Mai

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Needs Moar[DESU]

Mo/

11 Jun 2006 at 22:10 - 27

I think the main question is..

Why do people think that winning in Random Arenas proves a point? Random arenas have and always will be a joke, since thats what they are...Random. You have no control over who are your teammates are in a team based game. Only reasons I usually go to RA is to actually play around with some funky build thats just for fun and see how people react to it.

Anyways back on topic..

There are reasons why people run the same builds again and again...it's because the situation calls for it. Using cookie cutter builds are fine in my opinion as long as the player understands that there are other builds that work too.

Kern Wolf

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

NJ

W/E

11 Jun 2006 at 22:33 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Websites like this tend to encourage cookie-cutter builds because there's an entrie sub-section dedicated to sharing builds. Cookie-cutter builds are what make PvP in GW boring. You see a W/E, Mo/E, W/E, Mo/E and you can be 95% certain that it is dual Smite. You see a multitude of N/Mo... its a blood spike team. W/R, W/R, W/R, R/Me - its IWAY.

Face it, its boring. It quashes peoples' imagiations on makes then less spontaneous because rather than using their brains, they can just copy a pre-made build and start farming that sought-after fame. It has even got to the point where people are shunned for not choosing a cookie-cutter build that has been tried and tested to its death. In HA we all know that there is a high level of elitism amongst some players and you are at serious risk of being looked down upon for not conforming to a cookie-cutter build. It sucks but there's nothing that can be done about it.

Probably the main reason I don't like going to RA; God help you if you try a different build there; you're called every name in the book, if you discuss a build other than cookie-cutter.
The main reason I like PvE over RA and the other PvP stuff is that I can modify my build (depending on the makep of the group I'm in), and I get a different "feel" for my character (I'm a W/E). It keeps it fun. I'd probably have stopped playing GW a long time ago if I had to play only 1 build for my warrior...

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jun 2006 at 22:48 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

My favorite build is Necro-Assain, using deadly arts and blood spells to drain, poison and knock down foes w/ 2 sigs to keep attackign even after mana is gone

Amazingly it works well

I had a lot of fun with that Necro/Assassin build during the preview weekend.

Let's face facts. There are only so many effective combinations of skills, and millions of people playing the game. It is highly likely that many are going to be using the same set of skills. A lot of people find it easier to stay with what seems to work rather than playing around with different skills. Log on .... play .... log off. It takes time to work out different combinations and not everyone has the time after working/attending class and dealing with all that other stuff in RL

/climbs down off soap box

TheMosesPHD

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Oregon

Mo Mo Patty Blinks [MoMo]

R/

11 Jun 2006 at 22:53 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizukaseru

Why does it suck? What's wrong with efficiency? What's wrong with what works?

Strangely enough the answers to your questions were actually answered by the second paragraph of the post you quoted. Here are the answers once again. I included bold text to make it easier to find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Face it, its boring. It quashes peoples' imagiations on makes then less spontaneous because rather than using their brains, they can just copy a pre-made build and start farming that sought-after fame. It has even got to the point where people are shunned for not choosing a cookie-cutter build that has been tried and tested to its death. In HA we all know that there is a high level of elitism amongst some players and you are at serious risk of being looked down upon for not conforming to a cookie-cutter build. It sucks but there's nothing that can be done about it.

It doesn't matter that a lot of the cookie-cutter builds "work". The point they're is that the cookie-cutters are not the only builds that work, and it's boring as hell for a lot of people to run the exact same thing all of the time. Each game is supposed to last for at least 6 months. I don't understand how people don't get bored playing the same builds for that entire period of time.

Demesis

Banned

Join Date: May 2006

11 Jun 2006 at 22:55 - 31

But I like to eat cookies :P

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jun 2006 at 23:08 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

It doesn't matter that a lot of the cookie-cutter builds "work". The point they're is that the cookie-cutters are not the only builds that work, and it's boring as hell for a lot of people to run the exact same thing all of the time. Each game is supposed to last for at least 6 months. I don't understand how people don't get bored playing the same builds for that entire period of time.

Maybe, just maybe, a lot of people don't have that much time to sit in front of the computer banging keys all day and half the night. A lot of people only spend a few hours a week playing, so there is no way they will get bored in 6 months. It's all about the level of time you have to commit to the game. Some want to kick back for a short while at the end of a day and some are hard core gamers. If your time was limited to a few hours a week which would you rather do, cookie cutter or hours of research, trial and error?

joncoish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

11 Jun 2006 at 23:21 - 33

God, some of the people here are so elitest. Who cares what someone else runs, if it's "cookie-cutter" or whatever. If you're so great, well come up with something else and kick their ass. Alot of people probably choose these types of builds to start off with. If you're new to PvP or whatever, you want to get an idea of different things that work, and get familiar with it. And maybe people just enjoy these builds? This is a game, which is about fun. Not a game where you have to show how cool and hardcore you are because you're playing different builds. That's a retarded idea in and of itself, but no doubt some people play this game for that.

General Surena

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Germany

None

W/

11 Jun 2006 at 23:25 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Monotony sucks. Variety is the spice of life.

You're right, they are effiecient builds which makes them successful but its annoying to see the same builds over and over again. I don't know if its a personal thing or part of my culture, but I find it extremely strange to see so many unimaginative 'followers' in one place.

This game is not life, don't mix things up. I read a disgusting level of arrogance in this thread. Some people use their brains off-game and play games to relax not scientifically. You are not your uber-build, your armour, your sundering zodiac sword of zomgness. If it annoys you, accept it or leave the game.

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

R/

11 Jun 2006 at 23:34 - 35

It's a game, it's supposed to be fun, relaxing and what ever tickles your fancy is OK to use. Ppl take this game way to serious( I hope they take school/work as serious as the game) it's not like your life is at stake here.
Who gives a hoot about what some lifeless(as in real life) 12 hour a day gamer thinks, it's not like you will ever meet them in real life.

It's about YOU having fun. ppl ask me what build I'm using, I anwser with a LOL

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 Jun 2006 at 23:35 - 36

simple fact is..this game is based around the "casual" gamer hence the cookie builds the green items ect

want a challenge? then this game isnt for you.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

11 Jun 2006 at 23:40 - 37

You can tell how cookiecutter this game has become. I was doing some TA last night with a friend. I was a Spinal Shivers necro, he was an Assassin w/ Tigers Fury with Icy Daggers.
None of the groups seemed to figure it out... everytime we came across an E/Mo Ether Prodgy Flash Turret i always seemed to end up getting blinded because they assumed it was me interrupting everthing...

Was funny watching boon prots squirm when we interrupted Contemplation of Purity

Falrow

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jun 2006 at 00:27 - 38

PvE:

Why would you *not* play what works best? Doing otherwise is crazyness.

PvP:

You can't talk about cookie cutter and not talk about meta game. The people playing will continue playing builds that win, and other people will copy them. It comes down to evolution, the best build wins.

You get some jitter, builds will shuffle around, but nothing will seriously change until the critical skills get rebalanced.

So basicly if your getting bored of PvP being continously the same, you have to ask Anet to change up the key skills of the game so people start running different things. Maybe half the healing that divine boon applies but make it drop only 1 energy instead of 2. That would shake things.

Desert Penguin

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/Mo

12 Jun 2006 at 02:43 - 39

There are two types of people who play cookie cutter builds:

Type A: "I use cookie cutter builds, but if you do not wish to play cookie cutter, that is okay by me. You are welcome to design your own build".

Type B: "I use cookie cutter builds, and you are a complete noob to not do the same! Do not even think of desgining you own build".

My point: There is nothing wrong with playing cookie cutter builds, just as long as you don't get angry at people who don't. That's all I am trying to say in this thread. I am not trying to start arguments here.

Star Alfur

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

WoW. :3

PM if you need me.

W/

12 Jun 2006 at 02:45 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Well the reason people only take cookie cutter builds most of the time because even though there are a lot of non-cookie cutter good builds out there, there are more bad non-cookie cutter builds. (i.e I'M AN MM W/N!, NOTHING CAN STOP MY MENDING WARRIOR!, I'm a Me/W....SPELL SLASHER!!, Ha Ha I'm a KD/AS....E/W!!! FC ECHO MENDING FTW!)

And if they would use their brain and seperate these good builds from the bad they might screw up because they brain has been fried from work/shcool.

Pretty much sums it up, in my eyes.