why does mending suck?
vabus
i don't use mending or anything but i always see people bashin the skill and i still haven't figured out why so can someone explain it to me?
Aisius
My thoughts...
Mending sux for me because of the shatter enchantments spell.
Also it's minus 1 regen (I think) and with my 8 points in heal I only get +3 regen with the skill. Mostly I slap it on if I am soloing mobs or going to places where I rarely take alot of damage.
In pvp it totally sux without any sort of energy renewal spells. Maybe with auspicious blow or the other spells for renew it could work. But I get by alot more with either heal breeze or the elite heal area of effect spell.
Mending sux for me because of the shatter enchantments spell.
Also it's minus 1 regen (I think) and with my 8 points in heal I only get +3 regen with the skill. Mostly I slap it on if I am soloing mobs or going to places where I rarely take alot of damage.
In pvp it totally sux without any sort of energy renewal spells. Maybe with auspicious blow or the other spells for renew it could work. But I get by alot more with either heal breeze or the elite heal area of effect spell.
Opeth11
It's just that a lot of the new players who toss Mending onto their warriors believe that they are invincible.
To some players, that +3 health regeneration is quite beneficial to survival, seeing that they need less heals than other characters.
To other players, gradual health regeneration at the cost of 1 pip of energy regeneration is a pitiful excuse, and should never be used.
Mending itself isn't really that bad of a skill, it's just many of the players that do use them posess below-average gaming skills. PvE wise, that is. PvP is a no go no matter what. Mending will get you eaten alive.
To some players, that +3 health regeneration is quite beneficial to survival, seeing that they need less heals than other characters.
To other players, gradual health regeneration at the cost of 1 pip of energy regeneration is a pitiful excuse, and should never be used.
Mending itself isn't really that bad of a skill, it's just many of the players that do use them posess below-average gaming skills. PvE wise, that is. PvP is a no go no matter what. Mending will get you eaten alive.
Eviance
strips and shatters are a huge one and many think that throwing off a Healing B. is better by far or using vigorous spirit (that I agree on), however I still use mending but ONLY for solo farming.
Another reason is that some newbish tanks think that mending is gawd and can save them if they agro everything and its mothers aunts uncles sisters brother Bob... Monks hate this more than ANYTHING! *shrugs* There are probably better reasons and quite possibly this could turn into a flame thread so be prepared to duck.
Another reason is that some newbish tanks think that mending is gawd and can save them if they agro everything and its mothers aunts uncles sisters brother Bob... Monks hate this more than ANYTHING! *shrugs* There are probably better reasons and quite possibly this could turn into a flame thread so be prepared to duck.
arcanemacabre
From an outsider's point of view (I don't use mending, nor do I bash those that use it), it's not really the skill itself that people hate. Mending has become the poster skill for W/Mo's, specifically newbie W/Mo's.
The stereotypical new player will see Mending as something that transforms their Clark Kent into Superman, and many won't hesitate to make that verbally clear, then follow suit with rushing into large amounts of enemies and killing themselves. This behaviour is usually followed by abusive comments toward other teammates, especially monks.
I would venture to say that MOST W/Mo's are NOT like that at all, but the select few that are, tend to be the loudest and most annoying. This type almost always has Mending and rely on it almost exclusively.
The stereotypical new player will see Mending as something that transforms their Clark Kent into Superman, and many won't hesitate to make that verbally clear, then follow suit with rushing into large amounts of enemies and killing themselves. This behaviour is usually followed by abusive comments toward other teammates, especially monks.
I would venture to say that MOST W/Mo's are NOT like that at all, but the select few that are, tend to be the loudest and most annoying. This type almost always has Mending and rely on it almost exclusively.
Aisius
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
From an outsider's point of view (I don't use mending, nor do I bash those that use it), it's not really the skill itself that people hate. Mending has become the poster skill for W/Mo's, specifically newbie W/Mo's.
The stereotypical new player will see Mending as something that transforms their Clark Kent into Superman, and many won't hesitate to make that verbally clear, then follow suit with rushing into large amounts of enemies and killing themselves. This behaviour is usually followed by abusive comments toward other teammates, especially monks.
I would venture to say that MOST W/Mo's are NOT like that at all, but the select few that are, tend to be the loudest and most annoying. This type almost always has Mending and rely on it almost exclusively. Thats one of the main reasons I will not take it to PvE groups now. Sadly my intention for having it on my bar was to relieve the stress of healing the tank from the monk, but with the opinions that players have for mending warriors most monks will exit the group pretty soon after I cast it
.
But yeah, it has it's uses and can help save a team mate if you have the energy to spare but mostly I think its seen as a "sign on forehead" watch me aggro and die!
The stereotypical new player will see Mending as something that transforms their Clark Kent into Superman, and many won't hesitate to make that verbally clear, then follow suit with rushing into large amounts of enemies and killing themselves. This behaviour is usually followed by abusive comments toward other teammates, especially monks.
I would venture to say that MOST W/Mo's are NOT like that at all, but the select few that are, tend to be the loudest and most annoying. This type almost always has Mending and rely on it almost exclusively. Thats one of the main reasons I will not take it to PvE groups now. Sadly my intention for having it on my bar was to relieve the stress of healing the tank from the monk, but with the opinions that players have for mending warriors most monks will exit the group pretty soon after I cast it
.But yeah, it has it's uses and can help save a team mate if you have the energy to spare but mostly I think its seen as a "sign on forehead" watch me aggro and die!
fb2000
its not the skill, i personally think its one of the most useful skills for solo survival for warriors and is pretty good skill for monks (say 55's..). for Pve missions in factions, i think its lost its appeal as there are lots of shatter enchantment mesmers in there now, i use it pretty often on farming trips tho..
a lot of people bitch at it purely becoz of its usage in PvP, more specifically that Paladin template - its a half assed damage dealer, that relies more on not dying instead of actually killing something.. thats where all the hate comes from.. in pvp warriors are supposed to be the main killers, its really annoying and commonplace to get a healing hands + mending warrior in ur group on RA/sometimes TA that can NOT pump out any decent dmg
about 60% of the people that bitch at the skill are some ubernoobs that think they know everything and in the same time are ultra-annoying little kids with inferiority complex. i think we all know what kinda players im talking about
a lot of people bitch at it purely becoz of its usage in PvP, more specifically that Paladin template - its a half assed damage dealer, that relies more on not dying instead of actually killing something.. thats where all the hate comes from.. in pvp warriors are supposed to be the main killers, its really annoying and commonplace to get a healing hands + mending warrior in ur group on RA/sometimes TA that can NOT pump out any decent dmg
about 60% of the people that bitch at the skill are some ubernoobs that think they know everything and in the same time are ultra-annoying little kids with inferiority complex. i think we all know what kinda players im talking about
The Real Roy Keane
I hate people quoting enchant removal as a reason for Mending's inefficiency-are prot monks usless because their spells might be removed? No, Mending is poor simply because your precious energy can be put to better use than sustaining a constant 6hp gain per second.
Numa Pompilius
fb2000 said it all.
Spot on, 100% accurate, start to finish.
Spot on, 100% accurate, start to finish.
teh_ninja_pirate
If you mean a Boon Prot's enchants can be removed, then yes, they can. But we still get a Divine Favor + a boon heal. Not to mention that a Monk can re-cast enchants more easily than someone with 20 natural energy and an energy regen of 2.
Jestah
Re-casting makes no difference. If you're relying on mending as your only source of healing then shatter is the least of your problems.
A simple healing signet at 115 heal can seriously outpace mending. A chain casted Healing Signet can heal for 19.2 health per second compared to Mending's pitiful 6. Tell that to most people and they'll ramble on about casting times and interupt but it's just as vulnerable to interupt as mending is to shatter. The damage lost during healing with signet is meaningless since a 2 pip warrior with IAS can do farrrr more damage than a nub with mending. Try running IAS on a warrior with 1 pip.
The *only* use mending has is for 55ing, even on runners it's a waste.
A simple healing signet at 115 heal can seriously outpace mending. A chain casted Healing Signet can heal for 19.2 health per second compared to Mending's pitiful 6. Tell that to most people and they'll ramble on about casting times and interupt but it's just as vulnerable to interupt as mending is to shatter. The damage lost during healing with signet is meaningless since a 2 pip warrior with IAS can do farrrr more damage than a nub with mending. Try running IAS on a warrior with 1 pip.
The *only* use mending has is for 55ing, even on runners it's a waste.
waiver
It's just newbies that think mending's god's gift. For me it's what keeps me floating above 50% health during farming. I use the mending&live vicariously&bonetti's solo build. It def helps when the trolls use disrupting blow (or whatever it is that makes your skill recharge 5x slower). I need that otherwise I die.
Calico Swift
I was going to say that it wasn't mending so much as the people that use it, but upon careful consideration, no. It is mending. Mending is a subpar skill for people who can't be bothered with manual health management, and it works badly. There are so many better options than mending, that using it is rediculous. It has a very limited usage for certain nitch solo PvE builds, 55s come to mind, and not much else. So when I see someone in a PvE group, usually a w/mo who was spamming "go" "go please" "go" before the mission ever launched, throwing up mending I'm thinking "Great, another winner", and when I see someone throwing it up in PvP... Don't put on mending in PvP, just don't.
Skuld
It's an insignificant amount of healing for the great cost of 8 ranks in healing and -1 regeneration that isn't there to be wasted. As said it has a niche in PvE solo builds
Jestah
Nah sorry, niche or not it has no use whatsoever besides 55ing and even for that it's not essential. 6 Health per second will NEVER make the difference between a winning build and a failure, even for PvE farming builds.
Calico was right on the money when he said it's for lazy people. This game generally doesn't reward you for taking the easy option. All the healing prayers skills are balanced so that they're all pretty much given balanced advantages and disadvatages. Some heal for extra but with drawbacks, some heal extra people for more energy, some are superior but are also elite but almost all have their uses. The thing with mending is that it is a royal piece of sh*t with the only advantage being that it caters for lazy nubs.
Calico was right on the money when he said it's for lazy people. This game generally doesn't reward you for taking the easy option. All the healing prayers skills are balanced so that they're all pretty much given balanced advantages and disadvatages. Some heal for extra but with drawbacks, some heal extra people for more energy, some are superior but are also elite but almost all have their uses. The thing with mending is that it is a royal piece of sh*t with the only advantage being that it caters for lazy nubs.
jummeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calico Swift
I was going to say that it wasn't mending so much as the people that use it, but upon careful consideration, no. It is mending. Mending is a subpar skill for people who can't be bothered with manual health management, and it works badly. There are so many better options than mending, that using it is rediculous. It has a very limited usage for certain nitch solo PvE builds, 55s come to mind, and not much else. So when I see someone in a PvE group, usually a w/mo who was spamming "go" "go please" "go" before the mission ever launched, throwing up mending I'm thinking "Great, another winner", and when I see someone throwing it up in PvP... Don't put on mending in PvP, just don't.
Mending's 2sec cast is useful to draw the disrupting chops from attaxes. Thats about it.
Don Zardeone
There are huge threads about this already.
Mending doesn't suck because it is an enchantment. It doesn't suck because it gives 6 hp per sec. It sucks because it is crap COMPARED to other skills and attributes the warrior -could- have used.
Mending often is used by warriors in general PvE. If there's a wammo out there then 90% of the time he'll use mending (I didn't make up the 90%, it really is 90%, however, the statistic is 4 months old.. I have to redo it some time..)
Because mending isn't that useful, other people who have to play alongside the menders will get pissed off.
The uselessness of the skill on a primary warrior is what pisses everyone off.
Here it comes, the raised al vs mending comparison....
Lets take 2 players. One is a dolyak tank, the other is a mending wammo.
If both are fighting a monster and this monster does 10 damage per second then..
The wammo will heal 6 hp per sec so he'll take 4 damage per sec.
The dolyak tank will prevent.. lets say.. 5 damage per sec so he'll take 4 damage too (** numbers are made up, it is very likely that a dolyak tank with WY etc.. will prevent more damage **)
So it seems that mending is superiour in this example right? Maybe it is, who knows..
Lets take the same 2 warriors and put them in a more realistic PvE environment. 1 warrior vs 10 monsters hitting him.
The mendingwarrior will take 100damage -6 = 94 damage per second.
The dolyak tank will take 100damage- damagereduction/absorb = 50 damage per second.
Who requires less healing? The raised AL tank.
Who lives the longest? The raised AL tank.
Who does the best damage? The raised al tank (no energy needed for dolyak itself, not that much needed for armor of earth, stances are low energy or adren, watch yourself is adren based and protects everyone around you. In this caxe, energy can be used for damage instead of 6hp per sec regen. THe war also doesn't need zealous so he can do a lot more damage)
Who will be a better asset to the team? The raised AL tank.
Who is more likely to be victorious? The raised AL tank.
Who takes the most damage? The mending wammo.
Who requires the most monk healing? The mending wammo.
Who is the most likely to die fast? The mending wammo.
Who does the least amount of damage? The mending wammo.
Many people know this but the wammos don't. I used mending myself back in the day. I spent 30 mins fighting an ele boss and mending kept me alive. I could solo him. The ele boss was in old ascalon.
Once I noticed that I was taking too much damage to be any good and once I noticed that the W/E just stood there killing stuff while I was relaxing on the floor, I started looking at other skills.
Mending, just like healing breeze, healing hands and other monk skills jsut don't make any sense on a primary warrior.
Think about, how does it make sense when you could use other skills?
Imo, the only skills that are kind of useful on a wammo are:
- rebirth (best PvE ressing skill in GW for warriors. Warriors don't have much energy so they don't lose that much energy when they rebirth someone)
- purge conditions (for when you have only 1 monk or no monks in the team and you might be facing a lot of conditions. Blind is the warrior's worst nightmare)
- smite hex (at 0 smiting, this removes a hex quickly in case you don't have support that removes the hex for you (unlikely))
- Succor (for when you don't use energy at all)
I type too much
Mending doesn't suck because it is an enchantment. It doesn't suck because it gives 6 hp per sec. It sucks because it is crap COMPARED to other skills and attributes the warrior -could- have used.
Mending often is used by warriors in general PvE. If there's a wammo out there then 90% of the time he'll use mending (I didn't make up the 90%, it really is 90%, however, the statistic is 4 months old.. I have to redo it some time..)
Because mending isn't that useful, other people who have to play alongside the menders will get pissed off.
The uselessness of the skill on a primary warrior is what pisses everyone off.
Here it comes, the raised al vs mending comparison....
Lets take 2 players. One is a dolyak tank, the other is a mending wammo.
If both are fighting a monster and this monster does 10 damage per second then..
The wammo will heal 6 hp per sec so he'll take 4 damage per sec.
The dolyak tank will prevent.. lets say.. 5 damage per sec so he'll take 4 damage too (** numbers are made up, it is very likely that a dolyak tank with WY etc.. will prevent more damage **)
So it seems that mending is superiour in this example right? Maybe it is, who knows..
Lets take the same 2 warriors and put them in a more realistic PvE environment. 1 warrior vs 10 monsters hitting him.
The mendingwarrior will take 100damage -6 = 94 damage per second.
The dolyak tank will take 100damage- damagereduction/absorb = 50 damage per second.
Who requires less healing? The raised AL tank.
Who lives the longest? The raised AL tank.
Who does the best damage? The raised al tank (no energy needed for dolyak itself, not that much needed for armor of earth, stances are low energy or adren, watch yourself is adren based and protects everyone around you. In this caxe, energy can be used for damage instead of 6hp per sec regen. THe war also doesn't need zealous so he can do a lot more damage)
Who will be a better asset to the team? The raised AL tank.
Who is more likely to be victorious? The raised AL tank.
Who takes the most damage? The mending wammo.
Who requires the most monk healing? The mending wammo.
Who is the most likely to die fast? The mending wammo.
Who does the least amount of damage? The mending wammo.
Many people know this but the wammos don't. I used mending myself back in the day. I spent 30 mins fighting an ele boss and mending kept me alive. I could solo him. The ele boss was in old ascalon.
Once I noticed that I was taking too much damage to be any good and once I noticed that the W/E just stood there killing stuff while I was relaxing on the floor, I started looking at other skills.
Mending, just like healing breeze, healing hands and other monk skills jsut don't make any sense on a primary warrior.
Think about, how does it make sense when you could use other skills?
Imo, the only skills that are kind of useful on a wammo are:
- rebirth (best PvE ressing skill in GW for warriors. Warriors don't have much energy so they don't lose that much energy when they rebirth someone)
- purge conditions (for when you have only 1 monk or no monks in the team and you might be facing a lot of conditions. Blind is the warrior's worst nightmare)
- smite hex (at 0 smiting, this removes a hex quickly in case you don't have support that removes the hex for you (unlikely))
- Succor (for when you don't use energy at all)
I type too much
arcanemacabre
I think it is pretty understood now that Mending is not a great W/Mo skill, and that it is a great 55 Monk solo skill. But there is something I think people are leaving out. Using Mending as a Monk in a team situation. If I'm not mistaken, which I very could be, but Mending actually causes you to drop a few notches in monster aggro. In which case you cast it on yourself, as monk, and you're rarely if at all bothered by monsters while you sit back and do your thing.
The one time I used Mending as a Monk, that's how I used it and it seemed to work nicely. Things could be different now, or maybe I'm dillusional, but there it is anyway.
The one time I used Mending as a Monk, that's how I used it and it seemed to work nicely. Things could be different now, or maybe I'm dillusional, but there it is anyway.
TheLordOfBlah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestah
Nah sorry, niche or not it has no use whatsoever besides 55ing and even for that it's not essential. 6 Health per second will NEVER make the difference between a winning build and a failure, even for PvE farming builds.
No, in the case of 55ing its better than recasting breeze which costs 10 energy every 10 seconds. At 13 healing, its 8hp persecond. That heals you for one (almost 2) hit every second. It helps.
teh_ninja_pirate
Not to mention it makes casting Breeze pointless (usually) when you have a single death under your belt. Which in itself is nice, IMO =P
Senator Tom
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3037674
bigwig
not to be too judgemental, and i'm not trying to insult anyone who likes mending, but i've always thought it indicated a sort of laziness.
You know that when a warrior in your group puts up mending he hasn't put much thought into other forms of defense. He's just going to plow on, sometimes alone (often this exactly why they put mending on themselves, so they can go off on their own and die) into mobs and get himself and possibly others killed.
Among my guild we always take note in guild chat when a pug or someone puts up mending. To warn each other.
You know that when a warrior in your group puts up mending he hasn't put much thought into other forms of defense. He's just going to plow on, sometimes alone (often this exactly why they put mending on themselves, so they can go off on their own and die) into mobs and get himself and possibly others killed.
Among my guild we always take note in guild chat when a pug or someone puts up mending. To warn each other.
jummeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_ninja_pirate
Not to mention it makes casting Breeze pointless (usually) when you have a single death under your belt. Which in itself is nice, IMO =P
Mending is useful cos you can typically get +12 regen with HB on a 55 monk, also, its a maintained enchant, so you can afford to cast it to draw all the interupts before casting a useful spell like Shield of Judgement.
AFAIK that is the only useful area of mending.
RE: casting mending on the monk, Succor would be more useful and also it doesn't cos attribute points. The enchant will *possibly* lower the monk's target order. (has this actually been proven?)
Of course in PvP, this point is moot.
AFAIK that is the only useful area of mending.
RE: casting mending on the monk, Succor would be more useful and also it doesn't cos attribute points. The enchant will *possibly* lower the monk's target order. (has this actually been proven?)
Of course in PvP, this point is moot.
Winstar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane
I hate people quoting enchant removal as a reason for Mending's inefficiency-are prot monks usless because their spells might be removed? No, Mending is poor simply because your precious energy can be put to better use than sustaining a constant 6hp gain per second.
good point,
Its true that in general the fact the an enchanment can be stripped is not a reason not to use an enchantment. But good enchantments are worthwhile because the slight cost of having them stripped is outweighed by their benefit. In the case of mending, in pvp environments, its benefit is so minimal that the cost of having it stripped outweighs any use it might have. There are just so many better things one can be doing. Mending in PvP is an unfortunate consequence of the pre-made builds and newer players trying to take a Pve mentality into Pvp. But this can be unlearned. I shudder to think of the kinds of things I did when I first started playing in pvp environments...shudder
Its true that in general the fact the an enchanment can be stripped is not a reason not to use an enchantment. But good enchantments are worthwhile because the slight cost of having them stripped is outweighed by their benefit. In the case of mending, in pvp environments, its benefit is so minimal that the cost of having it stripped outweighs any use it might have. There are just so many better things one can be doing. Mending in PvP is an unfortunate consequence of the pre-made builds and newer players trying to take a Pve mentality into Pvp. But this can be unlearned. I shudder to think of the kinds of things I did when I first started playing in pvp environments...shudder
lightblade
Let's do some math shall we?
Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep
1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second
over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy
Does it sound worthy now?
With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy.
Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep
1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second
over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy
Does it sound worthy now?
With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy.
Zephyr Jackson
I Personally use mending in 2 situations, either Solo Farming, or Running Through lower level areas so i can keep the customer happy with faster run times.
Although it isnt necessary for either of these.
Vigorus Spirit > Live Vicariously > Mending
Although it isnt necessary for either of these.
Vigorus Spirit > Live Vicariously > Mending
Winstar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightblade
Let's do some math shall we?
Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep
1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second
over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy
Does it sound worthy now?
With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy. Do you mean worthy in a pve environment? Is a warrior intended to use blessed signet? I'm not sure what you are refering to so apologize if you had somethign else in mind.
If mending is intended to be used for pvp on a warrior then it is most definitely not worthy. The fact that a few pips of regen adds up over time is decieving. Yes it can counteract some degen, but it does nothing to help you against spikes. Running blessed signet on a warrior in order to help with mending is even worse since it dedicates 2 slots on your skill bar to maintain an effect that is not really helping you much against a major source of damage you'll be facing and it won't really do much to slow down anyone running dedicated degen. If you want to aid yourself against conditions, run plague touch since you can deal with blinding, crippling, etc. which are of far greater concern since your main goal should be to have a number of high damage adrenaline skills that you can charge up and reign down upon soft targets with vengence, and ways to bring down/slow such targets. Mending is part of an overly defensive mindset that is out of place in warrior skill bars in Pvp environments. Dedicating so many points to healing in order to get mending running at a high rate just reduces the possibility of doing any real damage which as a warrior is why you are on the team in the first place.
Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep
1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second
over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy
Does it sound worthy now?
With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy. Do you mean worthy in a pve environment? Is a warrior intended to use blessed signet? I'm not sure what you are refering to so apologize if you had somethign else in mind.
If mending is intended to be used for pvp on a warrior then it is most definitely not worthy. The fact that a few pips of regen adds up over time is decieving. Yes it can counteract some degen, but it does nothing to help you against spikes. Running blessed signet on a warrior in order to help with mending is even worse since it dedicates 2 slots on your skill bar to maintain an effect that is not really helping you much against a major source of damage you'll be facing and it won't really do much to slow down anyone running dedicated degen. If you want to aid yourself against conditions, run plague touch since you can deal with blinding, crippling, etc. which are of far greater concern since your main goal should be to have a number of high damage adrenaline skills that you can charge up and reign down upon soft targets with vengence, and ways to bring down/slow such targets. Mending is part of an overly defensive mindset that is out of place in warrior skill bars in Pvp environments. Dedicating so many points to healing in order to get mending running at a high rate just reduces the possibility of doing any real damage which as a warrior is why you are on the team in the first place.
jummeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightblade
Let's do some math shall we?
Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep
1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second
over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy
Does it sound worthy now?
With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy. Over the course of 9 seconds I can use Heal Sig twice, to heal for 240HP for 0 energy... your point is?
Also 4pips == 13heal prayers which is not avail to warrior. My example with the heal sig uses 10+1 tactics, which is a regular occurence for an average warrior build.
Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep
1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second
over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy
Does it sound worthy now?
With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy. Over the course of 9 seconds I can use Heal Sig twice, to heal for 240HP for 0 energy... your point is?
Also 4pips == 13heal prayers which is not avail to warrior. My example with the heal sig uses 10+1 tactics, which is a regular occurence for an average warrior build.
Katari
Live Vic and Vig Spirit are both better for solo farming with a warrior. I haven't ever been in a solo farming situation where a third heal would be more benifical than another defensive skill.
Thorath Of Krosa
I have a solution.....Vig.Spirit+flurry=Better unfortuneatly vig is also an enchant so look out but it costs 5 engergy lasts 30 seconds and with 8 on healing heals for 13 every time you hit someone......what more do you need?
Thorath Of Krosa
Quote:
Originally Posted by jummeth
Over the course of 9 seconds I can use Heal Sig twice, to heal for 240HP for 0 energy... your point is?
Also 4pips == 13heal prayers which is not avail to warrior. My example with the heal sig uses 10+1 tactics, which is a regular occurence for an average warrior build. Just remember that if your struck with an inturrupt ure facked so carry a backup heal or toss a stance in there to help you with that (especially with pvp)
Also 4pips == 13heal prayers which is not avail to warrior. My example with the heal sig uses 10+1 tactics, which is a regular occurence for an average warrior build. Just remember that if your struck with an inturrupt ure facked so carry a backup heal or toss a stance in there to help you with that (especially with pvp)
THEIvo
I think the skill is used terribly.
Mending offers six health per second, for one energy everty three seconds- half your energy gain. It also requires at least 7/8 (I do not remember) in Healing Prayers. You could use great attack skills instead. If you do not need the energy and attribute points, at least don't put mending on yourself, but on your monk. His survival is much more important than yours.
Also, Live Vicarously gives much more health in battle
Mending offers six health per second, for one energy everty three seconds- half your energy gain. It also requires at least 7/8 (I do not remember) in Healing Prayers. You could use great attack skills instead. If you do not need the energy and attribute points, at least don't put mending on yourself, but on your monk. His survival is much more important than yours.
Also, Live Vicarously gives much more health in battle
Phoenix Sebolta
Its all very well using healing signet, but if youre a solo W/Mo for pve, you need to be able to both deal damage and heal yourself/keep youself alive. I dont think tactics is the way to go. You need 8 tactics to heal you 100 hp. With -40 armor when fighting level 22+ monsters you will probably lose 100 hp while youre using healing sig thanks to the lack of armor. Also, tactics arent the best damage dealers to most enemies. Personally i go for max swords to deal damage, high strength and 8 healing prayers. The combo of hig strength and high swordsmanship means you deal a lot of damamge, also if u use dolyak sig, you can further protect yourself against a strength attribute skill.
The issue of regenerating energy, warriors endurance, +3 energy every time you hit with an attack for over 20 seconds gives you virtually unlimited energy which can be used for healing. Damage comes from adrenal sword attacks such as sever artery, gash, galrath slash and final thrust. This means you can keep your energy for healing. I think mending is a good skill to use in this instance because of boundless energy from warriors endurance and dolyak signet means much of the damage you take is reduced to a level that mending will significantly counteract. Also, healing breeze would be perfectly suitable for major healing due to the vast supply of energy. Counteracts degen as well.
The point i wanted to make was, warriors dont have good self healing skills for a solo pve build. All they have is healing signet which needs high tactics to be any good. This means you have to have 8 healing prayers so why not use mending. mending and dolyak sig help to sustain your health, while breeze could restore it (or whatever healing spell takes your fancy). Bottom line is, having no tactics is a pretty good idea as you can spend the attributes on strength and healing prayers, rather than spreading between tactics and strength.
I do believe tactics are useful however when taking on other warriors. Essential in fact. For farming trolls i use max tactics and the ripostes and healing sig. now with max tactics it gives you 159 hp every 2 seconds if you want. very significant. using dolyak will counteract the armor drop and stances such as glads and bonettis and shield stance will stop them interrupting (with a bit of luck). This is the basic build i use for troll farming and powerleveling and ive not seen a build do it better ever. The reason i dont use this in regular solo pve, is not all enemies attack in melee. The crooks of the build requires the enemy to attack you in melee, which eles, monks, rangers, mesmers and necromancers dont. Ie all other classes.
Granted, if youre fighting a lot of mesmers, take off mending, its that simple. However, i prefer just not to fight mesmers with my warrior. Stone Summit Heretics, i keep well away...
The issue of regenerating energy, warriors endurance, +3 energy every time you hit with an attack for over 20 seconds gives you virtually unlimited energy which can be used for healing. Damage comes from adrenal sword attacks such as sever artery, gash, galrath slash and final thrust. This means you can keep your energy for healing. I think mending is a good skill to use in this instance because of boundless energy from warriors endurance and dolyak signet means much of the damage you take is reduced to a level that mending will significantly counteract. Also, healing breeze would be perfectly suitable for major healing due to the vast supply of energy. Counteracts degen as well.
The point i wanted to make was, warriors dont have good self healing skills for a solo pve build. All they have is healing signet which needs high tactics to be any good. This means you have to have 8 healing prayers so why not use mending. mending and dolyak sig help to sustain your health, while breeze could restore it (or whatever healing spell takes your fancy). Bottom line is, having no tactics is a pretty good idea as you can spend the attributes on strength and healing prayers, rather than spreading between tactics and strength.
I do believe tactics are useful however when taking on other warriors. Essential in fact. For farming trolls i use max tactics and the ripostes and healing sig. now with max tactics it gives you 159 hp every 2 seconds if you want. very significant. using dolyak will counteract the armor drop and stances such as glads and bonettis and shield stance will stop them interrupting (with a bit of luck). This is the basic build i use for troll farming and powerleveling and ive not seen a build do it better ever. The reason i dont use this in regular solo pve, is not all enemies attack in melee. The crooks of the build requires the enemy to attack you in melee, which eles, monks, rangers, mesmers and necromancers dont. Ie all other classes.
Granted, if youre fighting a lot of mesmers, take off mending, its that simple. However, i prefer just not to fight mesmers with my warrior. Stone Summit Heretics, i keep well away...
jummeth
Solo W/Mo for farming, you would use LV as your maintained. That is a totally different thing to what we are discussing.
If you have 10 degen on you (or greater) Healing siggy will keep you alive almost indefinately. This is extremely helpful for the monk as it lifts some of the pressure off their shoulders. Mending/healing breeze will be totally negated by most degen builds you will face in pvp. In some PvE places aswell.
There is no point arguing about the low pressure parts of the game since by nature of those areas, they allow for inefficiencies.
RE: you argument about attribute points, as an warrior, your weapon mastery should always be 15/16, there is no excuse for this. There are 1 or 2 farming builds where you get away with little or no weapon mastery, for reposte instead, but again, this is a very small part of a warriors role.
Tactics line also has many other useful skills such as watch yourself and shields up, these are useful against spikes and general survivability of your group.
Dolyak Signet outside of farming is generally a really bad idea, its simply not flexable enough. In PvP, it is a joke since all they have to do is walk away from you and boom your useless. In missions and exploration, Dolyak means that if agro does break from you (as 'tank', i'll get to that in a sec) you are unable to collect them up again or respond to a threat that emerges.
8+1 strength is a good break point for your speed buff skills, you tend not to need more than 15 seconds worth of rush, and it is recharged really quickly anyway. As mentioned 12+3+1 weapon mastery and that leaves 10+1 tactics, which will give heal sig 120hp gain. This is a good balance.
Warrior's endurance is a horrible elite to take. You give up Quivering/Eviserate/Devastating... useful elites, effectively, lets look at this in a different way, as you say for your energy management, since you need it as you are using mending... you would take mending to Evis/Quivering/Devi Hammer?!?
Mending gives 3 health regen, it counteracts bleeding. Would you ever be worried about bleeding as a degen? So why would you waste an energy doing the opposite?
RE: warriors not having good self healing, Warrior's healing signet is possibly one of the best self heals in the game. You just actually have to use it correctly. TU is possibly the only other better.
Troll farming is doable on so many different builds is because its too damn easy. Almost anything can do it. In a thread like this, you base too many arguments on one *tiny* part of this game, and its probably not even intended. Trolls are used because they are easy and quick to kill. Thats the point of farming.
In all honesty, you haven't given one true point about why mending is useful yet, all we have seen is that you have to waste your elite, or you have to lower your attack. Or you prefer to not touch 1/4 of the classes in guild wars.
I'll keep saying this:
Mending is the epitome of lazy warrior 'tank' attitude, and its not even an effective way. Warriors have a large lump of metal in their right hands, that swing away at the enemy at a scary rate.
Warriors are DPS monsters. You will find if you apply enough pressure to the opposition team, you will become the target. Which is why currently monks are #1 targets, since they considerably hinder your kill rate, similar fate with mesmers. However, if you see the variety of warrior hate out there, you will understand why they are there, to subdue this evil killing machine.
By putting skills into useless attributes such as heal prayers, you are harming your team by lowering your effectiveness. Mending is frowned upon since it is the flagship of this silly mentality.
Up to now, I have seen 2 uses for mending, supplimenting a 55 monks regen and drawing the savage slash from ataaxes so I can cast SoJ.
If you have 10 degen on you (or greater) Healing siggy will keep you alive almost indefinately. This is extremely helpful for the monk as it lifts some of the pressure off their shoulders. Mending/healing breeze will be totally negated by most degen builds you will face in pvp. In some PvE places aswell.
There is no point arguing about the low pressure parts of the game since by nature of those areas, they allow for inefficiencies.
RE: you argument about attribute points, as an warrior, your weapon mastery should always be 15/16, there is no excuse for this. There are 1 or 2 farming builds where you get away with little or no weapon mastery, for reposte instead, but again, this is a very small part of a warriors role.
Tactics line also has many other useful skills such as watch yourself and shields up, these are useful against spikes and general survivability of your group.
Dolyak Signet outside of farming is generally a really bad idea, its simply not flexable enough. In PvP, it is a joke since all they have to do is walk away from you and boom your useless. In missions and exploration, Dolyak means that if agro does break from you (as 'tank', i'll get to that in a sec) you are unable to collect them up again or respond to a threat that emerges.
8+1 strength is a good break point for your speed buff skills, you tend not to need more than 15 seconds worth of rush, and it is recharged really quickly anyway. As mentioned 12+3+1 weapon mastery and that leaves 10+1 tactics, which will give heal sig 120hp gain. This is a good balance.
Warrior's endurance is a horrible elite to take. You give up Quivering/Eviserate/Devastating... useful elites, effectively, lets look at this in a different way, as you say for your energy management, since you need it as you are using mending... you would take mending to Evis/Quivering/Devi Hammer?!?
Mending gives 3 health regen, it counteracts bleeding. Would you ever be worried about bleeding as a degen? So why would you waste an energy doing the opposite?
RE: warriors not having good self healing, Warrior's healing signet is possibly one of the best self heals in the game. You just actually have to use it correctly. TU is possibly the only other better.
Troll farming is doable on so many different builds is because its too damn easy. Almost anything can do it. In a thread like this, you base too many arguments on one *tiny* part of this game, and its probably not even intended. Trolls are used because they are easy and quick to kill. Thats the point of farming.
In all honesty, you haven't given one true point about why mending is useful yet, all we have seen is that you have to waste your elite, or you have to lower your attack. Or you prefer to not touch 1/4 of the classes in guild wars.
I'll keep saying this:
Mending is the epitome of lazy warrior 'tank' attitude, and its not even an effective way. Warriors have a large lump of metal in their right hands, that swing away at the enemy at a scary rate.
Warriors are DPS monsters. You will find if you apply enough pressure to the opposition team, you will become the target. Which is why currently monks are #1 targets, since they considerably hinder your kill rate, similar fate with mesmers. However, if you see the variety of warrior hate out there, you will understand why they are there, to subdue this evil killing machine.
By putting skills into useless attributes such as heal prayers, you are harming your team by lowering your effectiveness. Mending is frowned upon since it is the flagship of this silly mentality.
Up to now, I have seen 2 uses for mending, supplimenting a 55 monks regen and drawing the savage slash from ataaxes so I can cast SoJ.
Sarah Arano
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightblade
Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep
1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second
over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy
Does it sound worthy now?
With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy.
In the context of a warrior, you shouldn't be using more than 9 points if any in healing. If you were to make an active comparison with other heal skills you'll see that
At 8 healing :
Mending will give 6hp/sec, in a time span of 30 secs, Mending will give 180hp for 10 energy.
Vigorous Spirit will give 13hp/attack.
An axe/sword has a 1.33sec swing rate and attacks ~22 times in 30secs, resulting in 286hp for 5 energy. A hammer has a 1.75sec swing rate and attacks ~17 times in 30secs, resulting in 221hp for 5 energy.
Mending : 18hp/1energy
axe/sword : 57.2hp/1energy
hammer : 44.2hp/1energy
Live Vicariously will give 10hp/attack, which is 220hp for 10 energy with axe/swords and 170hp for 10 energy with hammers.
Mending : 18hp/1energy
axe/sword : 22hp/1energy
hammer : 17hp/1energy
Assassin(taking dagger base as 1.33sec)
Mending : 18hp/1energy
Vigorous Spirit : 57.2hp/1energy
Live Vicariously : 22hp/1energy
Ranger(shortbow)
Mending : 18hp/1energy
Vigorous Spirit : 39hp/1energy
Live Vicariously : 15hp/1energy
at 9 healing :
Mending will give 6hp/sec, Healing Breeze will give 14hp/sec.
In a time span of 12 secs, Mending will give 72hp for 4 energy, which is 18hp/1energy.
With a 20% ench mod, Healing Breeze will give 168hp for 10 energy, which is only 16.8hp/1energy.
Mending : 18hp/1energy
Healing Breeze : 16.8hp/1energy
With speed boosts and other factors aside:
Vigorous Spirit(anything) > Live Vicariously(axe/sword/dagger) > Mending > Healing Breeze(with ench mod) > Live Vicariously(hammer/bows)
Mending is better off on spell casters that have no better form of healing or on characters that are constantly on the move.
Russell.Crowe
Works for running and PvE (although, don't bring it into areas where it gets shattered a lot, because it might get you killed). In PvP it just gets shattered, waste of a skill. It isn't as bad as the people who use frenzy or healing signet in areas of high damage output.
Katari
Sarah Arano has the right of it. As long as you attacking, there are better options in the healing line that provide more healing per second then mending.
Yes, it "works" in PvE, but unless you are running somewhere, or simply not attacking, it "works" less effectivly than other options. Theroeticaly anything works in PvE, because PvE is not competitive. Eles that do little other than spam Flare "work" in PvE, but that dosn't make them remotly good. You can say "Whatever is fun for you" or "Each to their own" and whatnot all you want, but that dosn't make for a strong argument in favor of mending.
Yes, it "works" in PvE, but unless you are running somewhere, or simply not attacking, it "works" less effectivly than other options. Theroeticaly anything works in PvE, because PvE is not competitive. Eles that do little other than spam Flare "work" in PvE, but that dosn't make them remotly good. You can say "Whatever is fun for you" or "Each to their own" and whatnot all you want, but that dosn't make for a strong argument in favor of mending.
jummeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe
Works for running and PvE (although, don't bring it into areas where it gets shattered a lot, because it might get you killed). In PvP it just gets shattered, waste of a skill. It isn't as bad as the people who use frenzy or healing signet in areas of high damage output.
Almost every decent pvp build has the warrior running both of those skills.
BaconSoda
1st, not all wmmo's are noobs...2nd, I have heard no testimony towards prot. wmmos... In the situation desrcibed above, with 10 enemies doing 10 dmg/second, for roughly 30 seconds, my wammo would've taken absolutely 0 damage, and still have his 750 health. How one might ask? Simple, here is my build:
Strength: 10 (8+1)
Swordsmanship 12 (11+1)
Protection 10/11 (memory doesn't serve, I have been using Ripose tank recently)
Skills:
Sever Artery
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust/Silverwing Slash
Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment
Shielding Hands
Mark of Protection {E}
Vital Blessing
Res
Equiptment: Defender (Stregnth) +45 hp (enchant) -2 damge (enchant), Fortitude Sword
Now Shielding Hands and MoP have 10 second durations. I reduce my damage by 16 with malion's shield and shielding hands, I also reduce my damage by 46 on MoP. at 10 dmg/second, I would be invincable for roughly 30 seconds even with the 5second gap with 25 second shielding hands recharge. Even then, Vital blessing gives me a huge amount of health, and I can withstand a heavy beating in that time.
If anyone has any objections post them and i'll contest.
Strength: 10 (8+1)
Swordsmanship 12 (11+1)
Protection 10/11 (memory doesn't serve, I have been using Ripose tank recently)
Skills:
Sever Artery
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust/Silverwing Slash
Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment
Shielding Hands
Mark of Protection {E}
Vital Blessing
Res
Equiptment: Defender (Stregnth) +45 hp (enchant) -2 damge (enchant), Fortitude Sword
Now Shielding Hands and MoP have 10 second durations. I reduce my damage by 16 with malion's shield and shielding hands, I also reduce my damage by 46 on MoP. at 10 dmg/second, I would be invincable for roughly 30 seconds even with the 5second gap with 25 second shielding hands recharge. Even then, Vital blessing gives me a huge amount of health, and I can withstand a heavy beating in that time.
If anyone has any objections post them and i'll contest.
Lando Griffen
Regaurdless of what anyone says, mending does not suck (at least for pve). There are times when mending is essential for solo-farming, but where it gets it's bad rep is from mending warriors in pvp. When I take a trip to random arena and see a w/mo wearing dragon armor, who casts mending on himself, I generally think, gg other team... It's not that it's their fault either, it's due largely in part, to the absolutely horrible pre-made warrior template. People who are first starting the game don't really have much of a choice, and they have no idea what kind of flaming they're gonna get. So anyway, keep on using mending for pve, it's a great skill, but please don't try to use it in pvp, it just cuts down on your effectiveness.