Ranger Builds, Guides, and Tips
FalconDance
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
There is no "best build" for a ranger, only a build that is best for the situation. Even then, personal play style often makes one build more effective for one person, while another build may be best for another.
Exactly.
My NF ranger just started exploring in the Desolation (quite an odd place). Her skillbar at present: Burning Arrow, Apply Poison, Hunter's Shot, Crossfire, Power Shot (seldom used), (Cap Sig), Troll Unguent, and Sunspear Rez. Use of these quite efficiently kill anything I've come across so far.
Are there "better" skill sets to use? Probably. But right now, it works well.
My NF ranger just started exploring in the Desolation (quite an odd place). Her skillbar at present: Burning Arrow, Apply Poison, Hunter's Shot, Crossfire, Power Shot (seldom used), (Cap Sig), Troll Unguent, and Sunspear Rez. Use of these quite efficiently kill anything I've come across so far.
Are there "better" skill sets to use? Probably. But right now, it works well.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconDance
Exactly.
My NF ranger just started exploring in the Desolation (quite an odd place). Her skillbar at present: Burning Arrow, Apply Poison, Hunter's Shot, Crossfire, Power Shot (seldom used), (Cap Sig), Troll Unguent, and Sunspear Rez. Use of these quite efficiently kill anything I've come across so far.
Are there "better" skill sets to use? Probably. But right now, it works well. Aren't 2/3 of hte enmies in the Desolation immune to both Poison and Bleeding? Been as they're either made of stone or undead.
As a Thumper goes in PvE. How about using Strike As One? Its nice n spammable and gives a pretty decent +x damage that would be kept up for 2/3-3/4 of the time.
My NF ranger just started exploring in the Desolation (quite an odd place). Her skillbar at present: Burning Arrow, Apply Poison, Hunter's Shot, Crossfire, Power Shot (seldom used), (Cap Sig), Troll Unguent, and Sunspear Rez. Use of these quite efficiently kill anything I've come across so far.
Are there "better" skill sets to use? Probably. But right now, it works well. Aren't 2/3 of hte enmies in the Desolation immune to both Poison and Bleeding? Been as they're either made of stone or undead.
As a Thumper goes in PvE. How about using Strike As One? Its nice n spammable and gives a pretty decent +x damage that would be kept up for 2/3-3/4 of the time.
lennymon
heh, I actually have just been going barrage or judges/barrage in desolation. Lazy I know, but heck its cheap and works.
burning arrow is great for either hordes of undead or anything else for that matter, but yeah for the stone/undead land id go read the wind, burning arrow, xfire(love this skill), savage shot AND/OR distracting shot (there's really no reason for a marks ranger to not have at least one interrupt), natural stride or dodge, troll ungent (I'd put the cap sig here for troll) and rez.
Only thing ever gave my ranger trouble in the desolation was the necro boss when I capped order of undeath, then I loaded one of my monky heroes as a smiter and well.... heh lets just say it went a little smoother.
burning arrow is great for either hordes of undead or anything else for that matter, but yeah for the stone/undead land id go read the wind, burning arrow, xfire(love this skill), savage shot AND/OR distracting shot (there's really no reason for a marks ranger to not have at least one interrupt), natural stride or dodge, troll ungent (I'd put the cap sig here for troll) and rez.
Only thing ever gave my ranger trouble in the desolation was the necro boss when I capped order of undeath, then I loaded one of my monky heroes as a smiter and well.... heh lets just say it went a little smoother.
Jeff Highwind
I've been meaning to try Bunny Thumper for AB recently. My pet is unevolved though and I lack a hammer but I can afford the skillz after a few rounds of UW Trapping.
For AB though, does Thumper require a group of thumpers or can you fly solo with other guys (I got an alliance with a couple thumpers, hence why I ask.)
For AB though, does Thumper require a group of thumpers or can you fly solo with other guys (I got an alliance with a couple thumpers, hence why I ask.)
SnipiousMax
^ A thumper fits in where a warrior normally would. Difference being that a Thumper is pretty front-loaded (very little defense) with stronger offensive pressure.
lennymon
heh, I actually have just been going barrage or judges/barrage in desolation. Lazy I know, but heck its cheap and works.
burning arrow is great for either hordes of undead or anything else for that matter, but yeah for the stone/undead land id go read the wind, burning arrow, xfire(love this skill), savage shot AND/OR distracting shot (there's really no reason for a marks ranger to not have at least one interrupt), natural stride or dodge, troll ungent (I'd put the cap sig here for troll) and rez.
Only thing ever gave my ranger trouble in the desolation was the necro boss when I capped order of undeath, then I loaded one of my monky heroes as a smiter and well.... heh lets just say it went a little smoother.
For thumpers in AB, I really liked starting with the Lightning Hammer build on wiki and adjusting from there. It offers very strong offense as well as defense and gives you the idea.
burning arrow is great for either hordes of undead or anything else for that matter, but yeah for the stone/undead land id go read the wind, burning arrow, xfire(love this skill), savage shot AND/OR distracting shot (there's really no reason for a marks ranger to not have at least one interrupt), natural stride or dodge, troll ungent (I'd put the cap sig here for troll) and rez.
Only thing ever gave my ranger trouble in the desolation was the necro boss when I capped order of undeath, then I loaded one of my monky heroes as a smiter and well.... heh lets just say it went a little smoother.
For thumpers in AB, I really liked starting with the Lightning Hammer build on wiki and adjusting from there. It offers very strong offense as well as defense and gives you the idea.
FalconDance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Aren't 2/3 of hte enmies in the Desolation immune to both Poison and Bleeding? Been as they're either made of stone or undead.
Yes, but Burning Arrow and Crossfire take them down with little trouble. It's rather amusing to watch stone burn 
.
.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
As a Thumper goes in PvE. How about using Strike As One? Its nice n spammable and gives a pretty decent +x damage that would be kept up for 2/3-3/4 of the time.
Yea, I capped that and I'm sure it would work fine, but I still prefer the speed boost from RaO. Even though enemies don't kite like in PvP it still helps get you to your target faster so that you start dealing damage sooner. I'm not sure I would see it dealing more damage than RaO, but even if it did I just find RaO more fun.
Jeff Highwind
I just capped RaO and it's fun as hell! I've been thinking though, if I can get a sup Beasty rune on me and put more points into expertise for a defensive stance, would it be possible to cover the loss of 75hp with the evasion provided by Whirling Defense? With both RaO and WD up it'd be alot harder to hit me physically than with just RaO and 560 HP.
Darkpower Alchemist
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
@ Darkpower:
I don't see anything wrong with running traps in a bow based build for PvE, but I don't see how you can pull them off without having some sort of evasive stance in there. Well,actually,it's not tough when you have played a ranger for as long as I have now. 3 chapters of ranger play make you rather proficient,imho. What I do is flag my heroes at the edge of aggro range,very close to enemies. since I usually keep a ranger hero with me in my party,they will be able to trap as well. I lay dust trap first, so in case the monsters cross into the aggro bubble and charge me, the first thing that happens is that they are blinded. This makes the use of a defensive stance not as needed since I never start the aggro before the dust trap is laid down.
When the times when the dust trap is interupted,my ranger hero usually has laid dust trap on her side so all I need do is kite them into her trap,and the effect is essentially the same. From there, it becomes rather academic. if applying poison,then I'll barb the dust filled area, apply poison,then strike with Burning Arrow. Once that happens,I retarget, then strike the monk(If any,which in Elona, is very likely) poisoning him with Screaming and then interupt with savage. The monk is usually pretty dead from that point from a next shot from my ranger hero.If not, then he can get a burning arrow,too
.
Essentially, I don't use a stance due to the fact of how I play my trapper/archer build. When capping,I remove a trap,usually flame trap. If trapping with people,things may not go as well,since I'm not in control of the second person. In that situation,I might bring Whirling Defense, but mostly,I wouldn't. But, if I were to recommend a trapping/archer build to someone with less trapping experience,then I would recommend a stance to prevent most interupts. Maybe something like this;
[skill=card]Apply Poison[/skill][skill=card]Screaming Shot[/skill][skill=card]Savage Shot[/skill][skill=card]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill=card]Whirling defense[/skill][skill=card]Dust Trap[/skill][skill=card]Barbed Trap[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
This works well in most PvE scenarios, and if you feel the need to change anything,it will more than likely be the elite, depending on what you prefer to use.
Also,in the desolation, you can poison,bleed,and set on fire the things that aren't dead(Like demons), which are found in some large mobs, but i would rather use Read The Wind to be on the safe side.
I don't see anything wrong with running traps in a bow based build for PvE, but I don't see how you can pull them off without having some sort of evasive stance in there. Well,actually,it's not tough when you have played a ranger for as long as I have now. 3 chapters of ranger play make you rather proficient,imho. What I do is flag my heroes at the edge of aggro range,very close to enemies. since I usually keep a ranger hero with me in my party,they will be able to trap as well. I lay dust trap first, so in case the monsters cross into the aggro bubble and charge me, the first thing that happens is that they are blinded. This makes the use of a defensive stance not as needed since I never start the aggro before the dust trap is laid down.
When the times when the dust trap is interupted,my ranger hero usually has laid dust trap on her side so all I need do is kite them into her trap,and the effect is essentially the same. From there, it becomes rather academic. if applying poison,then I'll barb the dust filled area, apply poison,then strike with Burning Arrow. Once that happens,I retarget, then strike the monk(If any,which in Elona, is very likely) poisoning him with Screaming and then interupt with savage. The monk is usually pretty dead from that point from a next shot from my ranger hero.If not, then he can get a burning arrow,too
.Essentially, I don't use a stance due to the fact of how I play my trapper/archer build. When capping,I remove a trap,usually flame trap. If trapping with people,things may not go as well,since I'm not in control of the second person. In that situation,I might bring Whirling Defense, but mostly,I wouldn't. But, if I were to recommend a trapping/archer build to someone with less trapping experience,then I would recommend a stance to prevent most interupts. Maybe something like this;
[skill=card]Apply Poison[/skill][skill=card]Screaming Shot[/skill][skill=card]Savage Shot[/skill][skill=card]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill=card]Whirling defense[/skill][skill=card]Dust Trap[/skill][skill=card]Barbed Trap[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
This works well in most PvE scenarios, and if you feel the need to change anything,it will more than likely be the elite, depending on what you prefer to use.
Also,in the desolation, you can poison,bleed,and set on fire the things that aren't dead(Like demons), which are found in some large mobs, but i would rather use Read The Wind to be on the safe side.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
Well,actually,it's not tough when you have played a ranger for as long as I have now. 3 chapters of ranger play make you rather proficient,imho. What I do is flag my heroes at the edge of aggro range,very close to enemies. since I usually keep a ranger hero with me in my party,they will be able to trap as well. I lay dust trap first, so in case the monsters cross into the aggro bubble and charge me, the first thing that happens is that they are blinded. This makes the use of a defensive stance not as needed since I never start the aggro before the dust trap is laid down.
Just because you're not the first to aggro doesn't mean enemies won't attack you. I don't see this as a reliable strategy. Also, if you are spending that much time trapping, then you are better off going as a full out trapper. Imho, traps on a bow ranger build are best for support/snare or just to lay down before you aggro. If they are being used for primary offense, then switching to your bow instead of continuing to trap doesn't really give much advantage.
Sir Mad
Actually I kinda agree with Darkpower here. I used a trapper without an evasive stance for the Deep in the early stage of Factions. The main reason was we needed someone with Maryr and I thought having it on a ranger would save the elite of one of the monk, and let them do a better job, while it was not that an inconvenient for me - which means I couldn't take either Oath Shot (to recharge traps and have WD up most of the time) nor Trapper's Focus. However, in order to spam traps without EW/QZ and Oath Shot, I needed Serpent's Quickness. So I decided to completely drop WD and take Throw Dirt. And surprisingly, it worked well.
The strategy was very simple: let the warriors take the aggro, step in the mellee, use Throw Dirt just in case, drop Dust Trap, and start spamming the other traps you carry. Sometimes a mage in the backline will start wanding you. When it happens, don't try to drop another trap, as it's useless. Instead, just step back and he will target someone else (well at least they did - I haven't tried since the AI change). This build was completely inefficient in the 1st room once you have nuked the first foe as the spirits of the rits seemed to be unable to target anyone than me. But past that, it worked very well (erm... ok, except in the room where you're teleported to the closest foe every few seconds, but still...). I'd say 3/4 traps were not interupted, which is pretty good IMO.
Now I must say if I had had any choice I definitely would have taken either Oath Shot + WD or Trapper's Focus. Yes, that's better. But even without, provided you have some experience with aggroes and such (making a foe switch to another target) and generally rangers do (and they'd better, since rangers are THE pullers of the team), it's still OK - although, I definitely wouldn't recommand such a build to a new ranger.
EDIT - Erm I was talking about trapping without an evasive stance - I agree concerning the use of a bow.
The strategy was very simple: let the warriors take the aggro, step in the mellee, use Throw Dirt just in case, drop Dust Trap, and start spamming the other traps you carry. Sometimes a mage in the backline will start wanding you. When it happens, don't try to drop another trap, as it's useless. Instead, just step back and he will target someone else (well at least they did - I haven't tried since the AI change). This build was completely inefficient in the 1st room once you have nuked the first foe as the spirits of the rits seemed to be unable to target anyone than me. But past that, it worked very well (erm... ok, except in the room where you're teleported to the closest foe every few seconds, but still...). I'd say 3/4 traps were not interupted, which is pretty good IMO.
Now I must say if I had had any choice I definitely would have taken either Oath Shot + WD or Trapper's Focus. Yes, that's better. But even without, provided you have some experience with aggroes and such (making a foe switch to another target) and generally rangers do (and they'd better, since rangers are THE pullers of the team), it's still OK - although, I definitely wouldn't recommand such a build to a new ranger.
EDIT - Erm I was talking about trapping without an evasive stance - I agree concerning the use of a bow.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mad
...So I decided to completely drop WD and take Throw Dirt. And surprisingly, it worked well.
Yea, I can see running traps with no evasive stance, but still having throw dirt. The problem I saw with Darkpower's approach was that he had no way of preventing or reducing interupts until he actually dropped a Dust Trap.
Bloodied Blade
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Yea, I can see running traps with no evasive stance, but still having throw dirt. The problem I saw with Darkpower's approach was that he had no way of preventing or reducing interupts until he actually dropped a Dust Trap.
It's not impossible to manage it...just rather annoying. If I run traps with a bow they're usually as a defensive measure (dust/barbed in 1 slot on my bar as more of a novelty backline item). I really wouldn't run traps as my main offense and then run a bow as my extra damage...it's just too much slower than simply shooting down the mob or laying 1 backline trap and engaging.
I could, however, understand laying a dust trap as a minor aid to keep an npc warrior off of you for a moment or two while you kited away from it.
I could, however, understand laying a dust trap as a minor aid to keep an npc warrior off of you for a moment or two while you kited away from it.
Darkpower Alchemist
It doesn't make much since to start quoting all the particular comment parts, so I'll address the whole of the previous comments.
First,as I stated previously, my build is useful to me because I am experienced with its use. It's not used as a primary trappers build,since 2 traps doesn't make a trappers build, but part of an overall supporters build. I may be in control of the team, but a ranger has to ALWAYS play his position. This goes back to what I have said in previous ranger threads.
"A ranger has to know his place, and, in such knowledge, play his position to the best of his ability, for the continued success of the entire team.!"
This being said, I never recommended the build that I use to any new rangers. I recommended an alternative IF a ranger wanted to use traps with his bow. I use traps for two reasons in general.
1) To impede and hamper my enemies.
2) I need a real excuse for Wilderness' use, since Troll Unguent alone seems to not be using it to its full potential.
Also, my build is primarily an archer's build, since my attributes are normally spread so;
Marksmanship 16(12+3+1) Wilderness Survival 10(9+1) Expertise 10(9+1)
This being the case,I always intend to use my bow as my primary weapon. Now, in the statement of Archon feeling that I should either go full trapper or full archer, that is an opinion based on your style of game play. You seem to think on a defensive level, using all traps and using defensive stances to prevent interuptions. However, take into account that very few monsters will make a ranger as the primary target of their attack. Not even people playing against a ranger target the ranger first, thus they are usually caught by ALL the traps laid by any ranger worth his salt.
Also, take timing and play style into consideration. A trapper using Trapper's Focus may not be as interuptable, but once he has laid his traps, what good is he for at least the next 30 seconds or so to his team?
Not much good really. Where as in my build, being a primary archer, and a trapper second, it is useful throughout the duration of the combat scenario. Traps laid, set off by encroaching enemies, the archer is then able to attack with his bow on an effective level. The traps are not meant to kill, but to impede and ensnare the masses that are usually descening upon the team.
Positioning and timing are more useful with my build, where using WD+ Oath Shot would make for a more aggresive ranger approach, as in jumping into the fray as the primary attacker and making the same ranger the primary target of aggro.
Is that the way that a ranger normally plays in a team situation?
As for being a novelty backline defense, that means like a smoke and mirror situation,correct? Something to throw off the enemy attack and cause confussion. This is the nature of ranger traps in the first place. Trappers are most deadly in a group of 4, as we all well know, and thus an individual trapper isn't doing anything more than hampering the enemy advance long enough for the rest of the team to help take them out. Novelty is an understatement for trapping in an archer/trapper style build,imo.
Traps on one ranger are not enough to kill anything that can be considered a real threat. However, in a build like what I said that I use, the build causes bleeding,crippling,poisoning,blindness, and burning damage.These, all coming into play at the moment an enemy crosses the dust trap.Also, Throwing dirt may be quick in practice, but takes as long as a trap to recharge,if not longer and once it wears off, never caused the enemies damage like a dust trap, but that is also a matter of preference, since both are quite effective in practical application.
It's usefulness and implementation are all a matter of perspective and playing style.
First,as I stated previously, my build is useful to me because I am experienced with its use. It's not used as a primary trappers build,since 2 traps doesn't make a trappers build, but part of an overall supporters build. I may be in control of the team, but a ranger has to ALWAYS play his position. This goes back to what I have said in previous ranger threads.
"A ranger has to know his place, and, in such knowledge, play his position to the best of his ability, for the continued success of the entire team.!"
This being said, I never recommended the build that I use to any new rangers. I recommended an alternative IF a ranger wanted to use traps with his bow. I use traps for two reasons in general.
1) To impede and hamper my enemies.
2) I need a real excuse for Wilderness' use, since Troll Unguent alone seems to not be using it to its full potential.
Also, my build is primarily an archer's build, since my attributes are normally spread so;
Marksmanship 16(12+3+1) Wilderness Survival 10(9+1) Expertise 10(9+1)
This being the case,I always intend to use my bow as my primary weapon. Now, in the statement of Archon feeling that I should either go full trapper or full archer, that is an opinion based on your style of game play. You seem to think on a defensive level, using all traps and using defensive stances to prevent interuptions. However, take into account that very few monsters will make a ranger as the primary target of their attack. Not even people playing against a ranger target the ranger first, thus they are usually caught by ALL the traps laid by any ranger worth his salt.
Also, take timing and play style into consideration. A trapper using Trapper's Focus may not be as interuptable, but once he has laid his traps, what good is he for at least the next 30 seconds or so to his team?
Not much good really. Where as in my build, being a primary archer, and a trapper second, it is useful throughout the duration of the combat scenario. Traps laid, set off by encroaching enemies, the archer is then able to attack with his bow on an effective level. The traps are not meant to kill, but to impede and ensnare the masses that are usually descening upon the team.
Positioning and timing are more useful with my build, where using WD+ Oath Shot would make for a more aggresive ranger approach, as in jumping into the fray as the primary attacker and making the same ranger the primary target of aggro.
Is that the way that a ranger normally plays in a team situation?
As for being a novelty backline defense, that means like a smoke and mirror situation,correct? Something to throw off the enemy attack and cause confussion. This is the nature of ranger traps in the first place. Trappers are most deadly in a group of 4, as we all well know, and thus an individual trapper isn't doing anything more than hampering the enemy advance long enough for the rest of the team to help take them out. Novelty is an understatement for trapping in an archer/trapper style build,imo.
Traps on one ranger are not enough to kill anything that can be considered a real threat. However, in a build like what I said that I use, the build causes bleeding,crippling,poisoning,blindness, and burning damage.These, all coming into play at the moment an enemy crosses the dust trap.Also, Throwing dirt may be quick in practice, but takes as long as a trap to recharge,if not longer and once it wears off, never caused the enemies damage like a dust trap, but that is also a matter of preference, since both are quite effective in practical application.
It's usefulness and implementation are all a matter of perspective and playing style.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist A trapper using Trapper's Focus may not be as interuptable, but once he has laid his traps, what good is he for at least the next 30 seconds or so to his team? A trapper that has no speed buff for his traps (i.e. Trapper's Speed, SQ, EW/QZ) is not really good for his team no matter how you look at it. However, most competant trappers don't have to wait 30 seconds between traps since they bring one of such suggested skills.
Quote:
As for being a novelty backline defense, that means like a smoke and mirror situation,correct? Something to throw off the enemy attack and cause confussion.
I'm curious as to how you think you are confusing computer controlled AI. If you are refering to PvP, then I would argue that you choose another build for PvP, since there's nothing more fun than laughing as you piss off some trapper in RA with your wand/staff as a monk in between spells while he constantly tries and fails at dropping a trap.
For instance,if your monk stays close to you while trapping, who will the enemies attack? I think we both know that answer. If the warriors rush the monk who is under your traps, then they spring the traps, essentially taking the "bait". this gives you the opportunity to now apply conditions on top of the trap issued conditions,making condition removal rather difficult,even for a computer controlled monk.
Also, the matter of switching targets during attack can go both ways. Since it is not always possible to find the caster in a large group. Also,if you have 2 rangers in a group this makes finding and taking down caster targets much easier, like I mentioned previously when refering to me usually travelling with my ranger hero.
If you scan the enemy group, and find the casters quickly, you can eliminate them before the blindness wears off of the warriors. The point you seem to forget is that in my build I am not a trapper in the generic sense. I lay traps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
I'm curious as to how you think you are confusing computer controlled AI. If you are refering to PvP, then I would argue that you choose another build for PvP, since there's nothing more fun than laughing as you piss off some trapper in RA with your wand/staff as a monk in between spells while he constantly tries and fails at dropping a trap.
Get dust in your eye, and tell me how you respondQuote:
So,it begins anew! The great debate. You aggressively protect your ideals, but the fact of the matter is that what you are refering to is merely your limit of experience(not that you are inexperienced in the least) on chosing your targets against build preferences. If you play defense from the moment you attack, then you will always be on the defensive. However,if you are passive in your aggression, you will find openings in the enemies attack pattern. |
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
It's usefulness and implementation are all a matter of perspective and playing style.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and leave it at that.
Darkpower Alchemist
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
A trapper that has no speed buff for his traps (i.e. Trapper's Speed, SQ, EW/QZ) is not really good for his team no matter how you look at it. However, most competant trappers don't have to wait 30 seconds between traps since they bring one of such suggested skills. |
For instance,if your monk stays close to you while trapping, who will the enemies attack? I think we both know that answer. If the warriors rush the monk who is under your traps, then they spring the traps, essentially taking the "bait". this gives you the opportunity to now apply conditions on top of the trap issued conditions,making condition removal rather difficult,even for a computer controlled monk.
Also, the matter of switching targets during attack can go both ways. Since it is not always possible to find the caster in a large group. Also,if you have 2 rangers in a group this makes finding and taking down caster targets much easier, like I mentioned previously when refering to me usually travelling with my ranger hero.
If you scan the enemy group, and find the casters quickly, you can eliminate them before the blindness wears off of the warriors. The point you seem to forget is that in my build I am not a trapper in the generic sense. I lay traps.
Quote:
In RA or in PvE, who has the condition removal usually? And if they are dead from a hail of arrows, who then will be removing the blindness,crippling,poison,and bleeding?Wanding me won't be any good with arrows in their chest and poison in their bellies
Quote:
Umm, I think you are gettin a bit to excited over this. I'm not really aggressive in protecting my ideals, I just don't agree with you.|
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and leave it at that.
Benifit of the doubt,eh? Very well,then. However,if you are truely curious, I am easy to find.
Jeff Highwind
I've been using a slight modification to the popular RaO Thumper in AB to counter Luxon Touchers. This build is so Anti-Toucher it's scary
BM 8+1+mask Expertise 10+1 Hammer 12 Hammer Bash Crushing Blow Wild Blow (Cancles WD on toucher) or Irresistable Blow (more damage and doesn't demand adrenaline) Antidote Signet (f*** Blind) Rampage as One Whirling Defense Comfort Animal Charm Animal If you are out to hunt Touchers, keep Wild Blow on. It's a Godsend for thumpers vs touchers. Just be sure to lead with Wild Blow to cancel WD before starting the RaO attack.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
|
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist However,if you are passive in your aggression, you will find openings in the enemies attack pattern. ...or you will just be standing around and missing all the potential do deal damage.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist For instance,if your monk stays close to you while trapping, who will the enemies attack? I think we both know that answer. If the warriors rush the monk who is under your traps, then they spring the traps, essentially taking the "bait". this gives you the opportunity to now apply conditions on top of the trap issued conditions,making condition removal rather difficult,even for a computer controlled monk. Enemies don't just attack the monk. Believe it or not, enemies do actually attack rangers.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
Also, the matter of switching targets during attack can go both ways. Since it is not always possible to find the caster in a large group. Also,if you have 2 rangers in a group this makes finding and taking down caster targets much easier, like I mentioned previously when refering to me usually travelling with my ranger hero.
If you are running Apply, then you should be constantly switching targets until you have gotten the most poisoning out of your prep as possible.
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Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
Did you forget that the dust trap causes damage,earth damage if I am correct,and the monsters respond to it like an AoE damage effect, running from the trap, already blinded. 6 seconds is more than enough time to take down and interupt a caster,monk or otherwise, and retarget for the next closest soft target.
Yes, it will do damage, but not much. It will also cause AoE effect which may be counterproductive to your groups intentions.Quote:
Judging by your misunderstanding, I'm under the impression you made a lot of radical assumptions on what I meant from my post. |
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
If you scan the enemy group, and find the casters quickly, you can eliminate them before the blindness wears off of the warriors. The point you seem to forget is that in my build I am not a trapper in the generic sense. I lay traps.
The warriors won't be blind if you can't get a trap down without interupting. Even then, you only get 6 seconds of blind from Dust Trap, while you would get almost double that at 11 seconds with throw dirt.
You assume too much.
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No, I'm not. I'm saying that using traps without some protection from interuption is very unreliable. I'm saying it's unreliable to the point that the benefits of having a trap are outweighed by the likeliness that you won't be successfully dropping enough to make the skills worth your time. I never said that the enemy doesn't attack the monk and if you would review my post you should be able to see that. I said that the enemies won't be attacking ONLY the monk. In case you haven't noticed, some enemies switch targets pretty often (such as casters that spam hexes). All it takes is one tap from a caster's wand to kill your trap.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist Your Throw Dirt isn't doing anything but blinding,so the enemy will hug up on you and wait for the blindness to be removed or for it to wear off. This isn't blinding flash,my friend, you have roughly 30 seconds before you can blind a with this again. So if the monk removes the condition from the encroaching warrior/attacker then what do you do? WD? Lets's look at that next And this is different than the blindness from your trap how? How many enemy monks are removing conditions in PvE? If you are against condition removing enemies, than a condition build is a pretty weak choice to run in general, regardless of the skills used.
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Your stance of choice has a 75% chance to protect you from being interupted. Do you really think that will stop a good warrior?
WD is not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than a 0% chance to protect from interuption. There is no perfect way to drop a trap without interuption, but some methods are more reliable than other. If you haven't noticed by now, that is the point I'm trying to make. As for your point on wild blow, it should be know that a stance is not a good idea to run in an area where wild blow is prevalent. In such a case, throw dirt would be a better choice.
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Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
An assumption.
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If you want to stand around waiting for a spot to open for you to drop a trap, then go for it. Personally, I'd rather be in the battle contributing before, during, and after any traps may be laid.|
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
Have you ever been hit by a supposedly blinded foe? I have, and so have many others, because being blinded means that their have a very slim chance of hitting with an attack, but not totally unable. If the blind doesn't stick and is removed by the monk, then a good attacker/warrior will have this now popular skill. Your stance is now off and recharging for 60 seconds. Now, that you have thrown your dirt and/or have used WD, what will you do?
Again, this is a rather irrelevant point since using Dust Trap presents the same shortcomings.
Like I said, you play your way, and I play mine. I said that you look at laying traps in the general since of defensive effectiveness, while I look at the laying of traps in the terms of applying skill at the proper time. Trapping in general is about skill being applied properly and effectively. You feel that I have questionable practices? Fine,I can except that, but to say that the trap is not going to be laid down is an assumption, however educated it may be, but still,it is what it is.
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Having knowledge of what the skills do does not mean you know how to use them to their maximum potential.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist Your feelings on the matter taken into account, they have valid points for those of lesser experience, or for a PvP build, but in PvE the stance useage would be needed if you intend to stick your head on the chopping block of every fight. I don't believe experience has anything to do with my counterpoints. You may know how to wait for an opportunity to drop a trap, but while you do that you are waiting, not fighting to your full potential. If your traps are your big damage skills, then you are losing out on damage potential until you start dropping your traps. Enemy AI is also rather random on who it attacks. As one who plays a monk often, I can feel confident saying that. Some characters may be less likely to be attacked, but it is not to the point that it will make them safe from a single attack.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
I never do that, nor would I begin doing that as a ranger. Without WD or TD,if I position myself properly I have a solid 75% chance to lay my trap every time I attempt to put it down,+/-5%. That works for me when I use my skill bar for effective attack/interupt ability. I can sacrifice my 90% trapping ability to be more effective all around.
So you have numbers for us? Would you like to share your data that brought you to this conclusion?
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Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
In this scenario, you are waiting for others to establish aggro until you attack. In a PvE type scenario, much of the battle can already be dealt in this time.Quote:
And what you say is supposed to be productive by face value? This arguement is rather pointless, since you have constantly refused to actually "play" the game with me. I have stuck the olive branch out to you on a few occassions now and you have unceremoniously tossed it back in my face. Your total and unrelenting refusal to even see for yourself what I am capable of or if my practices are effective only show that your stuck in your opinions and may be too closed minded to see that maybe what I do is just as effective as I say. It's sad that this might be the case.|
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
That may not be what you or others feel as "Effective", but it's how I play the game.
ok, have fun.
And this is supposed to mean what? Assumptions are needed on some level to establish any kind of debate here. I have to assume that you are telling the truth. I have to assume that you are playing in areas that produce enough of a challenge for your argument to be worth some merit. I have to assume that many other things be equal for my point to be comparable to yours. Whether you admit it or not, you have made just as many assumptions to be able to make any counter argument against me. If you want to believe that all you have spoken is concrete fact with no room for error, feel free to, but don't expect anyone to take you too seriously.
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What part of my build says I ever stand around doing nothing? I will tell you once more, my build is an Archer build that uses 2 traps. Why would I be standing around doing nothing if my primary purpose and means of attacking are from my bow? Please read more and critique less.
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I don't believe experience has anything to do with my counterpoints. You may know how to wait for an opportunity to drop a trap, but while you do that you are waiting, not fighting to your full potential. If your traps are your big damage skills, then you are losing out on damage potential until you start dropping your traps. Enemy AI is also rather random on who it attacks. As one who plays a monk often, I can feel confident saying that. Some characters may be less likely to be attacked, but it is not to the point that it will make them safe from a single attack.
Once again, you have been so adamant on your arguement about my useage of traps that you still failed to read what I said. Archer build, remember? If I am using an archer's build, what is my main source of attack? The bow, correct? My main source of dealing damage? Marksmanship 16, remember? You're losing focus, too caught up in your assumptions to pay attention to the details of a one sided arguement I have been trying to end for some time now. I also play a monk(which expanded my understanding of the rear line and what happens to non frontline players), I do know of the way AI enemies switch targets, but sadly, it isn't so random as you are making it out to be.
Enemies attack in a similar fashion as players. Soft targets first, prefering to attack healers first, then, if no healer or soft target is close by, they will mostly attack whoever is closest, possibly making it appear random. Finally, they will pick targets by who is attacking them if they have no other choice. This is not randomness, this is logic in action. AI crunches numbers, if it is dying, it attacks its killer, if it is healed it will ignore its attackers and continue on it's assault for softer targets. Logic, not randomness.
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Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
What I do is flag my heroes at the edge of aggro range,very close to enemies. since I usually keep a ranger hero with me in my party,they will be able to trap as well. I lay dust trap first, so in case the monsters cross into the aggro bubble and charge me, the first thing that happens is that they are blinded. This makes the use of a defensive stance not as needed since I never start the aggro before the dust trap is laid down.
Enemies attack in a similar fashion as players. Soft targets first, prefering to attack healers first, then, if no healer or soft target is close by, they will mostly attack whoever is closest, possibly making it appear random. Finally, they will pick targets by who is attacking them if they have no other choice. This is not randomness, this is logic in action. AI crunches numbers, if it is dying, it attacks its killer, if it is healed it will ignore its attackers and continue on it's assault for softer targets. Logic, not randomness.
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Your build doesn't tell me you are standing around, your explanation does:|
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
So you have numbers for us? Would you like to share your data that brought you to this conclusion?
Ok, if you can produce numbers that state that I will not be able to be effective with my 2 traps, as you have dogedly stated throughout your follow up posts, I will surely prove you wrong, but that would mean you would have to come out with me to find out for yourself, which you have constantly refused to do.
What part of my build says I ever stand around doing nothing? I will tell you once more, my build is an Archer build that uses 2 traps. Why would I be standing around doing nothing if my primary purpose and means of attacking are from my bow? Please read more and critique less.
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No it doesn't. My point was that experience is not a reflection of one's ability to play efficiently. I made no statement that declared or infered myself as being a "master of rangers". If you still think that having more experience in game makes you a more knowledgable ranger, or have a better understanding of what a good build is, then I would suggest you not go bragging about 1 mil exp, even if none of it is farmed.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist And what you say is supposed to be productive by face value? This arguement is rather pointless, since you have constantly refused to actually "play" the game with me. I have stuck the olive branch out to you on a few occassions now and you have unceremoniously tossed it back in my face. Your total and unrelenting refusal to even see for yourself what I am capable of or if my practices are effective only show that your stuck in your opinions and may be too closed minded to see that maybe what I do is just as effective as I say. It's sad that this might be the case. I don't expect it to be taken strictly by face value. This is why I have made points and counterpoints to my debate with you. My refusal to join you in game is not a result of a closeminded opinion towards your strategy and assuming that my reasoning such is frankly quite petty.
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Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
Once again, you have been so adamant on your arguement about my useage of traps that you still failed to read what I said. Archer build, remember? If I am using an archer's build, what is my main source of attack? The bow, correct? My main source of dealing damage? Marksmanship 16, remember? You're losing focus, too caught up in your assumptions to pay attention to the details of a one sided arguement I have been trying to end for some time now. I also play a monk(which expanded my understanding of the rear line and what happens to non frontline players), I do know of the way AI enemies switch targets, but sadly, it isn't so random as you are making it out to be. Enemies attack in a similar fashion as players. Soft targets first, prefering to attack healers first, then, if no healer or soft target is close by, they will mostly attack whoever is closest, possibly making it appear random. Finally, they will pick targets by who is attacking them if they have no other choice. This is not randomness, this is logic in action. AI crunches numbers, if it is dying, it attacks its killer, if it is healed it will ignore its attackers and continue on it's assault for softer targets. Logic, not randomness. If you use bow attacks for your main source of damage, then why do you wait for aggro to be established, then drop traps as your first action? As for your other arguments, I ran builds with traps and no defensive stances before. This is largely my reasoning for bringing a defensive stance. AI doesn't always judge targets solely based on armor, health, etc. It also takes into account what enemies are nearby. If you are right next to an enemy and your ally is farther away, the AI enemy is more likely to attack you. Even if you are not the primary target, enemy AoE type attacks also act to interupt traps. Quote:
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