Lately theres been a huge problem with the community thinking that classes are gears towards SPECIFIC roles that are set in stone. Being an experimenter with many non-meta builds myself I'm seeing this reoccuring problem of party leaders forcing others to tailor to specifc cookie cutter roles.
These people are idiots that are sucking the fun out of the game.
I'm tired of watching other players being treated like human crap because they want to smite instead of heal or do something out of the ordinary. I can't believe the community has degraded to the point where people are going to bash an ele for not playing an echo nuker or talk trash to a PvE monk who walks into a fight with Ivor's Staff.
It seems there is this age old mindset that specific classes are tailored no non-interchangible roles going around. A monk is supposed to heal, an ele just drops meteors, tanks take damage, rangers trap or interrupt, mesmers shut down.. etc etc.
Now im quite aware that in a party specific key roles ARE needed in order to have the group function effectively. Yes someone needs to heal, someone needs to take the front line, and someone needs to deal damage.
I just think that the community all together is being way to nazi about what roles people should play. They get angry and kick players or call them noobs if they dont have specific builds.
We are talking about a game that has 1000s of skill combinations. Things arent going to change or become interesting if you continually force players to taylor to specific builds.
It's ok to MAKE SUGGESTIONS to another players build but wrong to order them to play a specific role. If you are skeptical about a player's build ask questions nicely and make suggestions instead of bashing them or flaming because they aren't the usual boonprot.
Look I've mowed through thunderhead keep with a melee elementalist, a necromancer with barrage and a longbow, a mesmer/monk fast cast healer and protter, some wierd warrior with unyielding aura, and all sorts of other trippy stuff. Build surprises make the game more interesting.
Ask questions about a players unque build and give chances if the guy seems like he knows what hes talking about. I'm tired of the stereotype flaming that party leaders are unleashing on people because they want to try something different or seeing a damn good player being left out of a party because hes something unorthadox like a N/W.
I hope those sterotyping people read this and maybe change their attitudes about the way the play and treat other players. If they dont, I might have to bash some heads in.
Class Sterotypes
Lordhelmos
Gwmaster
i remember wen i first made a monk he was called Cartman The Smiter(deleted)
everytime i went in to a team every1 was asking me to not smite blah blah, sometimes i didnt even had the time to tell them that i was healer ,since i was already kicked... i miss the first month of Gw alot
cuz people always wanted to team up and do things like farming drakes, quests and other things
everytime i went in to a team every1 was asking me to not smite blah blah, sometimes i didnt even had the time to tell them that i was healer ,since i was already kicked... i miss the first month of Gw alot
cuz people always wanted to team up and do things like farming drakes, quests and other things
pyrohex
This subject has been discussed about 193193414 times.
Lordhelmos
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrohex
This subject has been discussed about 193193414 times.
The problem is its getting worse. I am well aware that stereotyping has been and always will be around... but man... you can't play and not see how bad things have gotten in the last few month + the release of factions. I've been around since before sorrows keep. I think some of the morality of the community is cesspooling to an all time low, which is the only reason I decided to address the issue. The quality of the community, to which many can agree to is getting pretty nasty in comparison to what it was before and its still on this slope. Someone who has invested alot of time playing this game for enjoyment cant help to notice all of this and yea of course I'm worried about this. Just look at the degredation of HA and HoH? The threads about HoH being dead to everything but specific FoTM and players bringing that mentality out of the arenas and into PvE fields. To summarize, things are just getting worse and worse. Yes the subject has been addressed and will always be an issue, but I can at least say... man this is getting to the point where it is become rediculous. There are alot of people there that just play with hench now just to avoid all the BS. Anyone notice that its getting harder and harder to find decent parties? Especially after factions with more missions and goals, you would expect to community to grow but man, there are alot of ghost towns around now and thats some scary scary stuff.
Anet out of all people should be worried about this.
Anet out of all people should be worried about this.
Kijik Oni Hanryuu
its getting worse especially due to sins, considering as we sins are trying to fix the sins we are also pushing them into another type of build, community and us hates em for tanking (kills plenty of builds), and we in the sin community are pushing other sins to do complete hit and run :\ I admit we have a problem.
Thom
Few points.
1) Some builds are extremely efficient and therefore desirable.
2) Some builds are really bad.
3)Some players are really bad and play horrible builds because they don't know any better.
4)Good players playing odd builds are indistinguishable from bad players playing bad builds.
5)One bad player can mean the difference between an normal run and a difficult run.
6)Many party leaders are forming a party and have specific designs for that party.
7)Kicking a player who does not fit the roll you need (minion master, healer or nuker) is acceptable. Smiters can't heal and blood spikers don't raise minions. Often when a leader invites they are looking for a role not class.
8)It is reasonable to ask a player to make a specific build and kick them when they decline. If a person can't do what you are trying to do, you don't have an obligation to keep them. I'll normally ask for damage, tank, nuker, interrupts... and if you can fill what I need, I have no reason to keep you.
9) If you are on a non standard build, look to fill the roll that people are requesting, not the class. If you want to smite, pm people looking for an elementalist. If you want to heal with a mesmer or elmentalist, PM people looking for healers.
10) Please don't add some sort of moral tone to something incredibly utilitarian. Monks are best at healing/protection over any other role. Hit and run assassins are most effective. Minion Master is the necro build that best helps the team in PvE. The fact that people want something that is efficient anrd reliable is hardly a condemnable offense.
11) Realize that your build, while it may be efficient for you, may not be a good option for the team. A special tanking assassin may exist, but there isn't any reason to take that build over proven warrior tanks. An elementalist or necro using melee skills is a good way to drain a healers energy bar.
12)Remember that you are in a party at the pleasure of the group leader. If you don't like that fact, you are free to start your own group. If you don't like how a group is being run, you have the option to leave.
1) Some builds are extremely efficient and therefore desirable.
2) Some builds are really bad.
3)Some players are really bad and play horrible builds because they don't know any better.
4)Good players playing odd builds are indistinguishable from bad players playing bad builds.
5)One bad player can mean the difference between an normal run and a difficult run.
6)Many party leaders are forming a party and have specific designs for that party.
7)Kicking a player who does not fit the roll you need (minion master, healer or nuker) is acceptable. Smiters can't heal and blood spikers don't raise minions. Often when a leader invites they are looking for a role not class.
8)It is reasonable to ask a player to make a specific build and kick them when they decline. If a person can't do what you are trying to do, you don't have an obligation to keep them. I'll normally ask for damage, tank, nuker, interrupts... and if you can fill what I need, I have no reason to keep you.
9) If you are on a non standard build, look to fill the roll that people are requesting, not the class. If you want to smite, pm people looking for an elementalist. If you want to heal with a mesmer or elmentalist, PM people looking for healers.
10) Please don't add some sort of moral tone to something incredibly utilitarian. Monks are best at healing/protection over any other role. Hit and run assassins are most effective. Minion Master is the necro build that best helps the team in PvE. The fact that people want something that is efficient anrd reliable is hardly a condemnable offense.
11) Realize that your build, while it may be efficient for you, may not be a good option for the team. A special tanking assassin may exist, but there isn't any reason to take that build over proven warrior tanks. An elementalist or necro using melee skills is a good way to drain a healers energy bar.
12)Remember that you are in a party at the pleasure of the group leader. If you don't like that fact, you are free to start your own group. If you don't like how a group is being run, you have the option to leave.
Burns2003
Look, I am okay with creative builds. May it be W/E with rides the lightning or Necro with barrage, I am fine with them. The problem is the player must know/experiment with the new build he/she has created and know what he/she is doing !!!
I am sorry to say that most of fun builds I have seen simply deal too low damage. Recently this has become increasingly frustrating for me as I am looking out for people to form "master" team. To me, the most important criterion for choosing team member is to filter out the "player with no determination and expertise". I mean, the master reward is called "master" simply because it is not for everyone. For example, yesterday I have teamed with a beast master with a UW spider. While I understand that there are uncountable number of superior beast master builds, his build is simply not one of them. Instead, his build consists of practically no defensive / pet healing skills, resulting in his pet dying in almost every battle.
Yet he is JOINING a master only group in hope of leeching the group expertise. So my view for fun builds is this: they are okay provided if you restrict them to the "fun/relax" way of playing mission (i.e. players who are completing a mission and count master as a bonus). In an elitist group, we are looking for the professional.
I am sorry to say that most of fun builds I have seen simply deal too low damage. Recently this has become increasingly frustrating for me as I am looking out for people to form "master" team. To me, the most important criterion for choosing team member is to filter out the "player with no determination and expertise". I mean, the master reward is called "master" simply because it is not for everyone. For example, yesterday I have teamed with a beast master with a UW spider. While I understand that there are uncountable number of superior beast master builds, his build is simply not one of them. Instead, his build consists of practically no defensive / pet healing skills, resulting in his pet dying in almost every battle.
Yet he is JOINING a master only group in hope of leeching the group expertise. So my view for fun builds is this: they are okay provided if you restrict them to the "fun/relax" way of playing mission (i.e. players who are completing a mission and count master as a bonus). In an elitist group, we are looking for the professional.
Caleb
The simplest solution I can offer to you is this:
Create your own group. You cannot be bullied by the group leader, if you lead.
Create your own group. You cannot be bullied by the group leader, if you lead.
Greedy Gus
Henchies don't discriminate.
Tryll
I can understand why certain builds are desired in some instances, such as missions, especially in Factions where time is of the essence when trying to get that sought after Masters Reward. Many players are very impatient and seem to want to speed through the game like there's no tomorrow. That's fine, I'll reskill. What annoys me are the players who don't even give you a chance to reskill while the rest of the group are spamming "gogogogo!".
I'm very open-minded when it comes to groups if I'm leading as I love diversity and variety. I'm in no rush to get all my missions to Masters first time round. As long as we have a tank and some healing (regardless of which class is doing it), the rest of the team can pretty much do whatever build they desire, as long as it helps the team or hinders the enemy in one form or another and as long as each person knows what they're doing (get used to your build before trying to join a group). e.g. If you want to play a melee caster? Fine, just let the tank do the tanking. That's why they have high AL and absorb runes
The problem with smiting monks is simply that there is such a lack of healing monks out there at the moment. I've done missions without healing monks before. The trouble is that most random groups don't play nearly as well as they could with a bit of patience, either due to silly aggroing, rushing or just bad leading. I feel like screaming sometimes when the leader just clicks "enter mission" before even thinking about team tactics. These are all reasons why alternative builds get a noob label slapped on them so much.
I'm very open-minded when it comes to groups if I'm leading as I love diversity and variety. I'm in no rush to get all my missions to Masters first time round. As long as we have a tank and some healing (regardless of which class is doing it), the rest of the team can pretty much do whatever build they desire, as long as it helps the team or hinders the enemy in one form or another and as long as each person knows what they're doing (get used to your build before trying to join a group). e.g. If you want to play a melee caster? Fine, just let the tank do the tanking. That's why they have high AL and absorb runes
The problem with smiting monks is simply that there is such a lack of healing monks out there at the moment. I've done missions without healing monks before. The trouble is that most random groups don't play nearly as well as they could with a bit of patience, either due to silly aggroing, rushing or just bad leading. I feel like screaming sometimes when the leader just clicks "enter mission" before even thinking about team tactics. These are all reasons why alternative builds get a noob label slapped on them so much.
Psykewne
My honest answer to this problem is "deal with it"... people won't change despite the fact that they suck the fun out for other people. To them all that matters is keeping a high efficiency in their farming.
I only farm alone so I only worry about my own build, if i play with other people its for fun and we play weird builds when we do. If someone wants to tell me i MUST play a certain build in order to party with them, they can go whistle for all i care, i'll take hench, they don't bitch because i didnt bring echo nukes on my ele or some stupid stuff...
But honestly discussions like this dont work... one side will say they tell people to play a certain way because its the "best" way or build (and technically they could be right when it comes to certain small group farming areas), other people will say there is more than one way to do things (which is also right, you dont always need to spam till you have two human monks to do things for instance... raisu palace with nothing but one rit for healing ftw!) Both sides are right within their own field and style of play...
So in summing up, deal with it, cause discussing it only ends up in flaming or hurt feelings from what i've seen...
I only farm alone so I only worry about my own build, if i play with other people its for fun and we play weird builds when we do. If someone wants to tell me i MUST play a certain build in order to party with them, they can go whistle for all i care, i'll take hench, they don't bitch because i didnt bring echo nukes on my ele or some stupid stuff...
But honestly discussions like this dont work... one side will say they tell people to play a certain way because its the "best" way or build (and technically they could be right when it comes to certain small group farming areas), other people will say there is more than one way to do things (which is also right, you dont always need to spam till you have two human monks to do things for instance... raisu palace with nothing but one rit for healing ftw!) Both sides are right within their own field and style of play...
So in summing up, deal with it, cause discussing it only ends up in flaming or hurt feelings from what i've seen...
Merlin Munk
I play all differnt builds I can create. My thought is that there is no bad build as long as you know how too play it. Sure some Teamleaders dont like it and want specific builds in team, but thats not my problem. My monk always gets invited too teams, with standard frase "LF Monk too go" "6/8 need monk" and so on. Thats fine cause that means they accept Smiters right? WRONG, they flame you so much, HELL would have been a cooler place. Too all Teamleaders, If you want specific builds tell people that in chat when recuiting. If you are not specific, then u accept the players build as it is. If a player joins and you asked for a specific build then you have the right too kick that player. But not otherwise. And I belive that kicking a player without telling him/her why is even worse than a leaver in mission.
Well thats my opinion anyway.
Merlin Munk
Well thats my opinion anyway.
Merlin Munk
Kern Wolf
If you're going to experiment with different builds (I know I do), I would suggest taking henches 1st. My reasoning is this: if your experimental build fails, you won't want to deal with the grief from the rest of the party about it (and, be fair; regardless of the build, I think all party members have certain expectations about other party members--a monk should heal, regardless of his/her build; an ele should do some kind of AoE damage, regardless of build, etc.) If your experimental build doesn't work, it's not fair to the party group.
With a hench group, you're able to tweak that experimental build. When you got it working, then join a group, knowing that you've got your new build under control. Ask what the other people are bringing, skill-wise, and see how that works with your new build. if you come through with flying colors, you can always let them know that you tried a new build.
When I form PUGs, I go under the assumption that people know their skills, and what they're doing. It really doesn't bother me if they're trying a new build, or a new skill (quite frankly, most of the time I'm curious to see their new builds myself!) I'm about having fun; I have a day job, so I don't need stress in a game...
With a hench group, you're able to tweak that experimental build. When you got it working, then join a group, knowing that you've got your new build under control. Ask what the other people are bringing, skill-wise, and see how that works with your new build. if you come through with flying colors, you can always let them know that you tried a new build.
When I form PUGs, I go under the assumption that people know their skills, and what they're doing. It really doesn't bother me if they're trying a new build, or a new skill (quite frankly, most of the time I'm curious to see their new builds myself!) I'm about having fun; I have a day job, so I don't need stress in a game...
Cybah
I played in a group with 2 word of healing monks yesterday and I died several times even when they had 4 seconds to heal me. There are many bad players with "good" builds.
With my monk I've tested a heal/prot build with mark of protection some days ago and it works great... got kicked from a group when I told my build. That's really annoying and damn stupid from those people.
And I want to reanimate a smiting monk, but try find a group as smiter^^
0% chance, not even 1% chance.
That really suck. I hate that behavior.
I totally agree with the op, something has to be changed.
With my monk I've tested a heal/prot build with mark of protection some days ago and it works great... got kicked from a group when I told my build. That's really annoying and damn stupid from those people.
And I want to reanimate a smiting monk, but try find a group as smiter^^
0% chance, not even 1% chance.
That really suck. I hate that behavior.
I totally agree with the op, something has to be changed.
quanzong
Smiting monks in group? Worthless. monks are meant to heal and to protect not to fight. If you want to fight, go make yourself 55 monk.
Cybah
not really worthless, they deal always full damage with smiting attacks. and they can add balthazars aura on warriors and so on...
quanzong
ok when you play HA do people attack warriors? Do you think most people would continue to attack someone with balt aura?
In HA I dont think so. Monks = healing = valuable
Monk = fighting = worthless
In HA I dont think so. Monks = healing = valuable
Monk = fighting = worthless
makosi
I've been playing Random Arenas for a while with my own (non-googled) build and I'm amazed at how many people have rage-quitted because they didn't understand it. Just because you're not a wammo, boon-prot, migraine or touch-ranger doesn't mean you're ineffective. People are scared of different things because its out of their comfort zones. Looking at the bigger picture of human nature, that's why we have racism, homophobia etc.
Cybah
well I'm talking of pugs (pve)
Ariana Of Damia
Well as many @ssholes as there are out there, there are also very good people who are willing to help and dont care what class you are.
Find a good guild and play with guildmates if you can't find any decent people
_,.-+=’* ♥ Aurelio Furor [AUR] ♥ *’=+-.,_
Ariana Of Damia (Mo/Rt) ♥ Electra Of Damia (W/Mo) ♥ Lexa Of Damia (E/Mo)
Lily Of Damia (R/Mo) ♥ Mia Of Damia (Me/Mo) ♥ Zarina Of Damia (N/Mo)
Find a good guild and play with guildmates if you can't find any decent people
_,.-+=’* ♥ Aurelio Furor [AUR] ♥ *’=+-.,_
Ariana Of Damia (Mo/Rt) ♥ Electra Of Damia (W/Mo) ♥ Lexa Of Damia (E/Mo)
Lily Of Damia (R/Mo) ♥ Mia Of Damia (Me/Mo) ♥ Zarina Of Damia (N/Mo)
Chicken Ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybah
I played in a group with 2 word of healing monks yesterday and I died several times even when they had 4 seconds to heal me. There are many bad players with "good" builds.
With my monk I've tested a heal/prot build with mark of protection some days ago and it works great... got kicked from a group when I told my build. That's really annoying and damn stupid from those people.
And I want to reanimate a smiting monk, but try find a group as smiter^^
0% chance, not even 1% chance.
That really suck. I hate that behavior.
I totally agree with the op, something has to be changed. What, somehow Anet can stop players from sucking and being idiots? That'd be nice (bye touch ranger nerf topics), but it's not happening. If pugs suck so badly...don't use them. Guild groups or henches ftw.
As far as the problem getting worse... New players = more people = more idiots. Sucks, but CH3 will likely have more than proph and factions combined.
With my monk I've tested a heal/prot build with mark of protection some days ago and it works great... got kicked from a group when I told my build. That's really annoying and damn stupid from those people.
And I want to reanimate a smiting monk, but try find a group as smiter^^
0% chance, not even 1% chance.
That really suck. I hate that behavior.
I totally agree with the op, something has to be changed. What, somehow Anet can stop players from sucking and being idiots? That'd be nice (bye touch ranger nerf topics), but it's not happening. If pugs suck so badly...don't use them. Guild groups or henches ftw.
As far as the problem getting worse... New players = more people = more idiots. Sucks, but CH3 will likely have more than proph and factions combined.
GloryFox
I believe the attitude level is PvP'rs trying PvE for the first time in Factions. They are predisposed to prejudice in builds because they have lost the concept of role-play and fun. For example, This morning my monk with 1,500,000 xp was kicked from a Group because I showed up with an Animal Companion during the first part of a mini quest on SHING JEA ISLAND. (MIND YOU I COULD HAVE SOLOED IT WITH A WAND!)
I personally find it fun to place Balthzars Aura on my animal companion while casting smite spells. This does not mean I can't keep 3 level 20's alive from a few Yeti's and one Lesser Grasp. Get real people!
I personally find it fun to place Balthzars Aura on my animal companion while casting smite spells. This does not mean I can't keep 3 level 20's alive from a few Yeti's and one Lesser Grasp. Get real people!
bleaho
Its sad to see that people who like to experiment with different builds have to take slack from others. I've been thru it, and hated it.
There should be dedicated roles for a team, not dedicated builds. Its true that the monk is a healer, but ritualist can heal too! Maybe the ritualist is not as good as the monk, but sometimes its easier to find a ritualist. The group should be looking for a healer, not just a monk!
A lot of the problems come from people that think there is some sort of super build, like the "perfect" tank or the "perfect" healer. Only by experimenting with different builds can you find one that fits your play style.
It helps to have a guild that will run groups with you during experimentation builds. That way you have humans with you, plus they know you are experimenting (and often, they are as well) and if you can talk to them and find out what they thought of your new build, or how they liked the new skills.
I used to think that as a monk, Orison of Healing was a great spammer skill. But, after trying out a new skill, Healing Whisper, and letting my guildmates know, a lot of the monks in the guild are switching over and trying it out.
I know I'm rambling a bit, but don't get discouraged! After all, you might just come across the new "build of the week". If you are looking for a guild, check us out. www.shadowpeakknights.com
There should be dedicated roles for a team, not dedicated builds. Its true that the monk is a healer, but ritualist can heal too! Maybe the ritualist is not as good as the monk, but sometimes its easier to find a ritualist. The group should be looking for a healer, not just a monk!
A lot of the problems come from people that think there is some sort of super build, like the "perfect" tank or the "perfect" healer. Only by experimenting with different builds can you find one that fits your play style.
It helps to have a guild that will run groups with you during experimentation builds. That way you have humans with you, plus they know you are experimenting (and often, they are as well) and if you can talk to them and find out what they thought of your new build, or how they liked the new skills.
I used to think that as a monk, Orison of Healing was a great spammer skill. But, after trying out a new skill, Healing Whisper, and letting my guildmates know, a lot of the monks in the guild are switching over and trying it out.
I know I'm rambling a bit, but don't get discouraged! After all, you might just come across the new "build of the week". If you are looking for a guild, check us out. www.shadowpeakknights.com
Silent Kitty
The only thing I don't understand is why. Why does a Wammo spams the public chat that he wants a barrager, kick every new 'ranger who isn't one, while the party leader obviously isn't a barrager either. I can understand why parties want a healer or an other support class, but barragers or nukers are no support classes. Give other classes a chance too. Especially since you aren't one of those either.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by quanzong
Smiting monks in group? Worthless. monks are meant to heal and to protect not to fight. If you want to fight, go make yourself 55 monk.
Tell that to eles who deal less damage than my grandmother does to high level bosses. A single 'Smite' deals more damage than an entire Meteor Shower. A single Balthazaars Aura/Symbol of Wrath/Kirins Wrath combo could deal more damage in 15 seconds than an ele could in 15 minutes to a boss. The irony is if you wanna protect someone... whos tanking. SoJ is actually more effective. Shield of Regen cuts damage in half, Shield of Judgement can cut damage in half from most sources too if they spend most of the time on there arse. Its not hard to balance healing/prot and smiting.
Traveller
In PvE builds shouldn't matter. There is NO need for pre-determined Healer/Nuker/Tank - combination or discrimination, because really, if you got good players, even weird builds will succeed. The way Thom describes it, there's one combination of builds that can work, and every other variation must be kicked out from the group.
And as long as this sort of "efficiency" thinking is ruling, there will be no room for any eles except fire, no necros outside SS/MM, no ritualists besides restoration rits, mesmers altogether... the list goes on and on. Think outside the box, peeps.
And as long as this sort of "efficiency" thinking is ruling, there will be no room for any eles except fire, no necros outside SS/MM, no ritualists besides restoration rits, mesmers altogether... the list goes on and on. Think outside the box, peeps.
Vermilion Okeanos
The lamest one I believe is that, people don't accept you into party if you are not a warrior or ranger primary for "chest run"!
That usually tick me off. It is a CHEST RUN!!
They would kick you regardless of your primary or secondary.
That usually tick me off. It is a CHEST RUN!!
They would kick you regardless of your primary or secondary.
WasAGuest
I believe, and this is just my opinion, PuGs and this type of attitude will kill off PuGs and older chapters of the game. As a former long term player of EQ and several other MMOs, older chapters of the games become vacant and dead. Guilds band together to complete the quests and missions in those areas while PuGs have moved on to newer areas.
PuGs rely on cookie cutter google builds due to (as other have said above) ignorance and "what's common".
Anet's idea of keeping henchies dumb to "force" players to group up together will eventually kill the game (IMO) as players (such as those voicing their opinions here) will get sick of standing around trying to get into or starting a group with a non-cookie cutter builds. Add to that, areas becoming more and more empty as more chapters come out.
Lots of new players joining would make up for empty areas? Not so. Anet has 2 million copies of GW (the franchise) sold, not Factions. That means that Prophesies owners have invested into Factions. Yes some new players have joined but some have also left. I personally know 12 people who quit GW and went back to other online games with the release of Factions for various reasons. By Chapter 3 I would imagine we will see GW report 3 million copies sold.
PuGs rely on cookie cutter google builds due to (as other have said above) ignorance and "what's common".
Anet's idea of keeping henchies dumb to "force" players to group up together will eventually kill the game (IMO) as players (such as those voicing their opinions here) will get sick of standing around trying to get into or starting a group with a non-cookie cutter builds. Add to that, areas becoming more and more empty as more chapters come out.
Lots of new players joining would make up for empty areas? Not so. Anet has 2 million copies of GW (the franchise) sold, not Factions. That means that Prophesies owners have invested into Factions. Yes some new players have joined but some have also left. I personally know 12 people who quit GW and went back to other online games with the release of Factions for various reasons. By Chapter 3 I would imagine we will see GW report 3 million copies sold.
Yuo Can Do It!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
"Monks are best at healing/protection over any other role."
Oh, that made me laugh.
Ritualists are on par, or at least a close second to monk healing.
Ritualist protecting (spirit spammers - union, shelter, displacement), can be better than any monk protting.
Why don't you learn more about classes before making such stereotypes.
(I kinda agree with some of the other stuff that you said.)
Oh, that made me laugh.
Ritualists are on par, or at least a close second to monk healing.
Ritualist protecting (spirit spammers - union, shelter, displacement), can be better than any monk protting.
Why don't you learn more about classes before making such stereotypes.
(I kinda agree with some of the other stuff that you said.)
Curse You
I personally play(ed) a SS/Blood necro (very fun and effective build), a Warrior with a pet (all the way to Hell's Precipice), a Water Elementalist (slow effect 
), a customised healer monk with Offering of Blood, and a ranger with a vamp weapon as a base.
I personally play strange builds a lot. Most people hardly notice, and in fact sometimes I work better than the other "pre-made" builds. I admit I look at the "googled" builds, but only for specific things. If I want to farm (hardly do), I might look up a good solo build. Other times I just look at aspects and then use the parts I know work well to make a build for what I want.
I have also been in parties with strange builds. I did Raisu Palace with 3 restoration Ritualists (not monks) and we still got Expert's reward (one lost connection, which slowed us)
As for smitting monks (most overlooked build), they have many uses (The Undead Hordes
), but it's just that more often there is a need for healer and protection monks. I have seen towns and outposts where there are up to 4 or 5 groups of six people all saying "Group LF monks". This just seems to be due to a pure lack of monks where they're needed (ever go to Elona Reach?). It seems more than half the monk population of the game is 55hp farmers, half of whom are bots (again Elona Reach).
), a customised healer monk with Offering of Blood, and a ranger with a vamp weapon as a base.I personally play strange builds a lot. Most people hardly notice, and in fact sometimes I work better than the other "pre-made" builds. I admit I look at the "googled" builds, but only for specific things. If I want to farm (hardly do), I might look up a good solo build. Other times I just look at aspects and then use the parts I know work well to make a build for what I want.
I have also been in parties with strange builds. I did Raisu Palace with 3 restoration Ritualists (not monks) and we still got Expert's reward (one lost connection, which slowed us)
As for smitting monks (most overlooked build), they have many uses (The Undead Hordes
), but it's just that more often there is a need for healer and protection monks. I have seen towns and outposts where there are up to 4 or 5 groups of six people all saying "Group LF monks". This just seems to be due to a pure lack of monks where they're needed (ever go to Elona Reach?). It seems more than half the monk population of the game is 55hp farmers, half of whom are bots (again Elona Reach).
Ken Dei
Individuals are smart, people are stupid.
Sure, anyone can come into this thread and say this or that, but at the end of the day the same mentality will continue to pervade the game. Why?
Because we're mostly preaching to the choir here. We KNOW this behavior is stupid. But you know where the people who don't think that are? They're in game farming and being stupid.
What needs to be done is to take this arguement in game to all the cities and discuss it there, where it can't be avoided. But to do that A.Net needs to deal with the WTS spam.
Sure, anyone can come into this thread and say this or that, but at the end of the day the same mentality will continue to pervade the game. Why?
Because we're mostly preaching to the choir here. We KNOW this behavior is stupid. But you know where the people who don't think that are? They're in game farming and being stupid.
What needs to be done is to take this arguement in game to all the cities and discuss it there, where it can't be avoided. But to do that A.Net needs to deal with the WTS spam.
Carth`
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybah
And I want to reanimate a smiting monk, but try find a group as smiter^^
0% chance, not even 1% chance. It is due to demand. If a party needs monks, they need someone to keep them alive. A smiter won't do that. The fact is monks can be rare, the thing I most often see is "need 2 monks 6/8". Is that team looking for a smiter? Obviously not.
But it's not impossible for smiters, certainly not 0% chance. When there is an abundance of monks, the smiters can play. The other day I was in a mission, and we had 4 monks, with others trying to join. It was really weird, like everyone decided to play their monk that day. So the party leader asked one of the monks to go smiting, and that monk did far better than any ele could have done. It was a challenge mission, and we got a record amount of amber which we coudn't beat once some of the monks left and the remaining monks had to go back to healing.
Edit: the other massively overlooked role - or should I say class - in PvE is the mesmer. I don't know why people refuse them (trust me, I am really trying to finish Prophecies with my mesmer, but it isn't easy to get in a group). The times when there is a mesmer in the party, I am genuinely happy because the truth is, they do make it easier! The reason why people don't think they do, is because so much of what the mesmer does goes unnoticed, no matter how much it benefits the team. The exception maybe is interrupts, people can at least see that.
Recently I've seen a few "yay a mesmer" when one joins a PUG, so obviously some people do value them.
0% chance, not even 1% chance. It is due to demand. If a party needs monks, they need someone to keep them alive. A smiter won't do that. The fact is monks can be rare, the thing I most often see is "need 2 monks 6/8". Is that team looking for a smiter? Obviously not.
But it's not impossible for smiters, certainly not 0% chance. When there is an abundance of monks, the smiters can play. The other day I was in a mission, and we had 4 monks, with others trying to join. It was really weird, like everyone decided to play their monk that day. So the party leader asked one of the monks to go smiting, and that monk did far better than any ele could have done. It was a challenge mission, and we got a record amount of amber which we coudn't beat once some of the monks left and the remaining monks had to go back to healing.
Edit: the other massively overlooked role - or should I say class - in PvE is the mesmer. I don't know why people refuse them (trust me, I am really trying to finish Prophecies with my mesmer, but it isn't easy to get in a group). The times when there is a mesmer in the party, I am genuinely happy because the truth is, they do make it easier! The reason why people don't think they do, is because so much of what the mesmer does goes unnoticed, no matter how much it benefits the team. The exception maybe is interrupts, people can at least see that.
Recently I've seen a few "yay a mesmer" when one joins a PUG, so obviously some people do value them.
Cybah
I value them a lot too. I've beaten the boss at boreas alone cause all other ppl were not able to interrupt.
But there are many situations where mesmers are just great.
empathy, cry of frustration, clumsiness ftw (clumsiness does more dmg than a +40 hit by warrior and interrupts... I love it, even caster mobs will attack and get the damage, so damn nice.)
But there are many situations where mesmers are just great.
empathy, cry of frustration, clumsiness ftw (clumsiness does more dmg than a +40 hit by warrior and interrupts... I love it, even caster mobs will attack and get the damage, so damn nice.)
Bleidd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth`
It is due to demand. If a party needs monks, they need someone to keep them alive. A smiter won't do that. The fact is monks can be rare, the thing I most often see is "need 2 monks 6/8". Is that team looking for a smiter? Obviously not.
I agree with what you're saying, however the problem is just that. Two monks (as healers or healer/protector) aren't necessary in any PvE mission. That can be said for any other profession. The problem is with the mindset, that X can only be accomplished by A + B + C.
ElinoraNeSangre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kern Wolf
It really doesn't bother me if they're trying a new build, or a new skill (quite frankly, most of the time I'm curious to see their new builds myself!) I'm about having fun; I have a day job, so I don't need stress in a game...
This sums up my feeling.
I don't care if people want minion masters - they can want what they want, it's their group. But *not all Necros are minion masters* nor do they necessarily want to be. Don't blind invite people then get annoyed when they're not what you were looking for.
Myself, I like groups that don't try to fit a template - I've had a lot more fun with a lighthearted group who is here to have fun than a group who is going to chew other people out for how they cast their spells.
And yes, I agree - being in a good guild is a great way to get around the problem (my guild is super nonjudgemental - they're casual players and just like to have fun). If anyone ever want to play with someone who cares more about someone's ability to use what they've got over what's in their skillbar, you know where I am. Defy the norm!
-Eli/Kel
ps-and I always welcome Mesmers in a group.
I don't care if people want minion masters - they can want what they want, it's their group. But *not all Necros are minion masters* nor do they necessarily want to be. Don't blind invite people then get annoyed when they're not what you were looking for.
Myself, I like groups that don't try to fit a template - I've had a lot more fun with a lighthearted group who is here to have fun than a group who is going to chew other people out for how they cast their spells.
And yes, I agree - being in a good guild is a great way to get around the problem (my guild is super nonjudgemental - they're casual players and just like to have fun). If anyone ever want to play with someone who cares more about someone's ability to use what they've got over what's in their skillbar, you know where I am. Defy the norm!
-Eli/Kel
ps-and I always welcome Mesmers in a group.
Zinger314
I stereotype against W/Mos (who aren't runners). Why?
Almost every W/Mo I've played with has NO CLUE.
They either cast Mending on themselves (+6 HP/sec, woohoo) and/or spam Sever Artery/Gash and/or have no defensive skills whatsoever
I rarely meet W/Mo with skills like Gladiator's Defense or Purge Conditions. Just an FDS and no hope.
Also, I'm sure everyone knows that W/Mo tend to be the ones who call people "n00bs" and explicit insults. It's true.
As long as people follow their role, and follow it well, I'm happy.
Other classes, I'm...slightly more tolerant about in PvE. If I see a Nuker using Fire Storm, for example, it won't end pretty.
Almost every W/Mo I've played with has NO CLUE.
They either cast Mending on themselves (+6 HP/sec, woohoo) and/or spam Sever Artery/Gash and/or have no defensive skills whatsoever
I rarely meet W/Mo with skills like Gladiator's Defense or Purge Conditions. Just an FDS and no hope.
Also, I'm sure everyone knows that W/Mo tend to be the ones who call people "n00bs" and explicit insults. It's true.
As long as people follow their role, and follow it well, I'm happy.
Other classes, I'm...slightly more tolerant about in PvE. If I see a Nuker using Fire Storm, for example, it won't end pretty.
Tingi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuo Can Do It!
Oh, that made me laugh.
Ritualists are on par, or at least a close second to monk healing.
Ritualist protecting (spirit spammers - union, shelter, displacement), can be better than any monk protting.
Why don't you learn more about classes before making such stereotypes.
(I kinda agree with some of the other stuff that you said.) Do not agree. Ritualist are pretty bad healing compared to monk, HOWEVER, i agree with the protting part. They are very good at it especially in PvP, but a bonder is usually better.
Ritualists are on par, or at least a close second to monk healing.
Ritualist protecting (spirit spammers - union, shelter, displacement), can be better than any monk protting.
Why don't you learn more about classes before making such stereotypes.
(I kinda agree with some of the other stuff that you said.) Do not agree. Ritualist are pretty bad healing compared to monk, HOWEVER, i agree with the protting part. They are very good at it especially in PvP, but a bonder is usually better.
TheLordOfBlah
i had a Mo/E in a group for Borlis Pass the other day. I was a nuker. They werent healing, instead they were using all elementalist spells... Well what the hell thats exactly what I was doing, dont invite a nuker if you're going to nuke. If you're going to use all skills from your secondary, might as well go primary. Also if a group says LF healer, and youre a Mo/E NUKER, well, im expectin you to heal so of course im going to kick you.
If you're making a N/R with a bow... might as well make a R/w.e so you dont confuse people. Same goes for anything else... unless it requires the primary attribute.
If you're making a N/R with a bow... might as well make a R/w.e so you dont confuse people. Same goes for anything else... unless it requires the primary attribute.
Thom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuo Can Do It!
Oh, that made me laugh.
Ritualists are on par, or at least a close second to monk healing.
Ritualist protecting (spirit spammers - union, shelter, displacement), can be better than any monk protting.
Why don't you learn more about classes before making such stereotypes.
(I kinda agree with some of the other stuff that you said.) Learn to read:
"Monks are best at healing/prot over any other role"
NOT "Monks are the best at healing/prot over any other profession."
Ritualist can heal too in most PvE situations, but that isn't what I was saying. The role the monks perform best is healing. Even in GvG smite builds, your monks are filling a healing role as well as a pressure role.
Traveller: You totally missed my point. While there is no "NEED" for a specific build if you have reasonably good players, you don't normally get reasonably good players in PvE PuGs. If a leader wants to put together a build to create some synergies to speed things up, that should be respected. If I am leading a group, I have every right to decide its functional makeup. Leaders don't make decisions because they hate people, they just want to get things done quickly and efficiently.
Makosi: This isn't about intrinsic traits of individuals it is about their roles on a team. Would you call a football coach a "racist" if a fullback insisted on playing halfback? Would I be a bigot if I didn't want an electrician to install my plumbing? Leave serious real world issues out of this since it doesn't apply. We are talking about professions, so our best real world comparison is unemployed industrial workers (steelworkers). No one thinks that people hate steelworkers, since people realize their simply isn't a place for the in the economy at the moment. Just as steelworkers are retraing, some people should just reroll if getting into a particular group is important too them.
Ritualists are on par, or at least a close second to monk healing.
Ritualist protecting (spirit spammers - union, shelter, displacement), can be better than any monk protting.
Why don't you learn more about classes before making such stereotypes.
(I kinda agree with some of the other stuff that you said.) Learn to read:
"Monks are best at healing/prot over any other role"
NOT "Monks are the best at healing/prot over any other profession."
Ritualist can heal too in most PvE situations, but that isn't what I was saying. The role the monks perform best is healing. Even in GvG smite builds, your monks are filling a healing role as well as a pressure role.
Traveller: You totally missed my point. While there is no "NEED" for a specific build if you have reasonably good players, you don't normally get reasonably good players in PvE PuGs. If a leader wants to put together a build to create some synergies to speed things up, that should be respected. If I am leading a group, I have every right to decide its functional makeup. Leaders don't make decisions because they hate people, they just want to get things done quickly and efficiently.
Makosi: This isn't about intrinsic traits of individuals it is about their roles on a team. Would you call a football coach a "racist" if a fullback insisted on playing halfback? Would I be a bigot if I didn't want an electrician to install my plumbing? Leave serious real world issues out of this since it doesn't apply. We are talking about professions, so our best real world comparison is unemployed industrial workers (steelworkers). No one thinks that people hate steelworkers, since people realize their simply isn't a place for the in the economy at the moment. Just as steelworkers are retraing, some people should just reroll if getting into a particular group is important too them.
CyberNigma
Character Classes have always been some sort of stereotype, at least at a general level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Quote:
A character class represents a character's archetype and career in some role-playing games (RPGs). Usually, players choose their class when they create their character and may not completely part from that class during the life of that character.
Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) introduced the usage of classes, and they are now found in all games which use the d20 system. They are also found in many computer and videogame RPGs. There may some customized sub-types, but the class system in any game is in itself a stereotype, otherwise you'd have a non-class structure such as GURPS or Ultima Online.
Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) introduced the usage of classes, and they are now found in all games which use the d20 system. They are also found in many computer and videogame RPGs. There may some customized sub-types, but the class system in any game is in itself a stereotype, otherwise you'd have a non-class structure such as GURPS or Ultima Online.