Lack of accountabilty = Poor behavior in game

Okay, I give up. It seems that no amount of posting is going to get the point across. There'll always be people who post on this thread with words like "deal with it" "I dont care" "quit whining".

I guess I can tell the guy who just got called a 'Dirty Jew' in game to deal with it.

"I mean the holocaust happened in the past. Deal with it. Quit whining, your grandmother died in a concentration camp, deal with it."

"Did that guy waste 2 hours of your time sending you off in the wrong direction?" "What? you only get 2 hours of play in the weekends anyway?"---"Deal with it"

"Hey look, that guy quit after capping the elite, and we're only 1 hour into the mission. We might not make it and it's the 4th time today"---"Quit whining"

"Oh look, that person is calling you a noob on the local channel and now nobody wants to invite you into their party for a mish"---"Deal with it and switch off your local chat"

Can ANYONE see what is wrong here? Does any of these dialogues make you happy?

The term "deal with it" is a term used by people who are too lazy to help solve the problem. No offense Big_L, but I just didn't take that too well.

*sighs* I can see where this thread is going. And I think the fact is this: They get away with it and thusly this gives them the boldness to be even ruder...

I've seen harrassment that really does go over the top. Just yesterday there was a guy pretending to be a GM and I called him out on it publicly. The fact is, it can and likely will get a lot worse if not addressed and better precautions taken.

The thing is, that people on the internet are real whether you want to think so or not... Heck I've met a ton of GW people in this town when I went to go preorder Factions! Normally I wouldn't know them from Adam, but there they are! And for newbs this can be a real threat. It is no different than going into a chat room of 13yr olds and there is a lone perv lieing about his age. I blame parents as well as the people themselves (lord knows you have your own mind no matter how you were raised!). But the internet in general has ways of protecting others from such offenses. It's easier to report with buttons of CLICK HERE TO REPORT! Or AIM has a nice little "warn" feature where so many strikes and they are out for 30mins.

It can be done, there are good and trustworthy people who could do these things. Perma Mute might be going to a bit to far with powers tho >_>

Heck some newbs don't even know they have a buddy list or ignore list... Not to mention some don't even know how to jump districts or really how to turn off chat or stop whispers.... Yeah I know they didn't read the handbook. So sue them!? Who wants to sit there reading when you can be playing!?

The point is, that we should be responsible for our own actions and many aren't or refuse to be and as far as I am concerned that makes for a very poor and uneven playing field for those just looking to play.

I shouldn't have to warn newbs about scammers and guild scams... But I also refuse to sit here and do nothing and let these poor people get taken for a ride cause they didn't know any better! It's called humanity!

You are absoutely, 100% wrong.

I think that you are the one that is confused. The internet is a PART of real life. There are REAL PEOPLE and REAL CRIMES that are on the internet. The internet and real life are not seperate, one is a subset of the other. That is like saying that talking on the phone is not real life. Should I call up my mom, and say STFU, n00b?

That people pretend that what happens on the internet is not a part of life is just childish. The two things are very similar, it is unfortunate that you cannot see that.

While I agree with your sentiment, I find the concept laughable - there is nothing that is going to stop online idiocy. Parents don't watch everything their kids do, some grownups act like children in the comfort of internet anonymity, and some people are perfectly civil up until they have that freedom to act how they want to and know that nothing serious can come of it.

It sucks, but it's the way it is, and there is little or nothing anyone can do to correct it.

It didn't used to be like this... or at least it has become much more prevalent since the first few months IMHO. Of course there are always going to be griefers, but it sure does seem to drown out the good lately.

The amount of insults hurled at someone when they ask a question boggles my mind. I always try to help out if I'm paying attention to local chat, but half the time it's just "W-T-S this, LTS that" ad nauseum (ignoring trade channel FTL!).

A couple days ago I couldn't believe it... I was playing in the Dragon Nest and I happened to be winning after the first round. One of my fellow participants asked me how the !@$% I got so many, and before I could even type in a response, they called out "cheater!" I figured they were just kidding around, so I laughed it off. However, they continued to call me that, even after the game had ended (I did win, btw) ... I don't take kindly to false accusations, especially in something as minuscule as a festival game, so I tried to be polite and was going to explain to them about the game (and that I had already played it several times) but they wouldn't drop it so I finally had to tell them to f--- off. I don't know if they were just kidding around, looking for a reaction, or poor sports, but it's the kind of attitude I see all too often in GW, and frankly, in society in general.

Please dont mistake my point about common sense and avoiding trouble as being synonymous with laying down and accepting or ignoring this problem.

Poor analogies: hallmark of the "angry internet citizen".

The people who ACTUALLY GET UPSET over WORDS ON THE INTERNET are just as childish as the people saying the words. Why are you letting it bother you? Are you honestly that insecure?

And who tells you to be decent in real life? I don't see many signs all over the place saying one thing or another. I don't see billboards reading "don't spit in someone else's face."

Again it's an unspoken responsibility. Now if you've chosen to shed yourself of that responsibility, then you are part of the problem.

And yes I wrote my edit with a straight face, and I expected your counter. It's not every adolesent. I rarely behaved like a jackass when I was in my teen years in this or other games. I treated other players like....*gasp* human beings.

People only get away with the crap we let them get away with, and the weak are only weak so long as they think they are weak.

Not totally true dear.... And this is a rare case of smart vs idiot...

A guy I'm friends with bought an account, ingame from someone... He got scammed... Well he remembered the email addy and traced it... Called the house and found out it was a 9yr old that had scammed him. Told the kids dad what happened... He figured the dad would just ground the son or whatever cause the dad was just like "yeah right". But 2wks later the boy logs onto the account and messages my friend and tells him that his dad is making him give back every penny and that he's grounded for a month and then proceeds to get mad at my friend for getting him and his buddy in trouble saying "It was just a joke man!"

This a rare case of justice... And sadly it is things like this that could lead to real things in life. While this time it might be a phone call, you never know what wacko you could scam that might come hunting you down... Who here has heard of people killing their friends or themselves over stuff in a game?! It doesn't matter how stupid it is, it's real just the same and it does happen.

Internet life is very real. If people want to hide in the bubbles let them, but they are NOT invinsible. I ended up marrying the man I met online... I have friends online that are now real life friends. Heck one of my guildies is passing through and staying on Monday!

Safe guard yourself if you must but acting and treating people like they aren't human cause they are text on a screen is begging for trouble!

You're again focusing on the concrete. The words aren't the issue. It's the random disrespect that the person finds offensive. The unprovoked attack on them.

But unfortunately, respect is abstract, therefore does not exsist. Right?

QFT

That's the way I act wherever I am. Always treat people the way you would want to be treated yourself. Just one of the many valuable, if hokey, things my mom taught me.

I am saying that the internet is as much real life as anyother 2-way communication that we have. I am not sure how you don't get that. Would you be upset if a stranger yelled at you in the street? How is that different? Because the internet is faceless? That is just a poor excuse to be a poor excuse for a person...

I am not angry. I think it is unfortunate that this is the way people think about the internet, and I am at a loss as to why people continue to think there should be difference in values based on the medium through which we communicate. It is something that does make me sad, but I am not angry.

Also, I am not insecure at all. I am worried about what my children (or other people's children) may come across because of immature attitudes on the internet, but you can be SURE AS HELL that I will make sure that my children do not think that it is ok by me if they act that way in any form of communication.

Its nice to see everyone vocalizing this problem so intelligently... Something needs to be done, and frankly for all the good deeds we do - which we will continue to do, this problem is too big. Every little thing we do, including being nice to others and reporting/ignoring jerks does of course help. But ANET needs to address this.

Anyway just in case a DEV reads this, possible ideas include...
- In-game reporting of people
- More of a GM presence/more temporary bannings for bad behavior
- Smaller community (somehow)... maybe designated districts that you stay in (except for PVP of course). Think WOW servers. You could change this maybe 5 times, like your region. This would possibly encourage accountability for actions as people would be as anonymous.
- Easier communication would also help

And to those who are arguing this... Why?
I honestly don't see why you would argue with the fact that others are unhappy and are trying to make the game a better place.

And everything is "real life".
I work all day at my job just to be able to come home and relax...sit back and play in an online game with other living breathing humans. This is our recreation, and some's hobby. Arguing that its not real is a very immature take on reality/semantics. First of all just because something exists in a virtual structure doesn't make it any less real. Secondly, your dealing with, again, REAL people who feel as deeply as you do. Are you guys propagating the view that 'if ya can't touch it it aint real?'
Its as real as anything else is, and what else is there to say?
Anyone who thinks the game isn't real is dehumanizing other players, and is at the root of the problem.

I think people who don't see a problem haven't played other online games much. I'll say it again, just because its the 'Internet' doesn't mean it has to be like this. I think GW stands alone as having the best graphics, best gameplay, best team supporting it and the worst community. And that's a biggie.

Anyway, maybe someone at ANET will see this.

I agree, in cases like this scammers can and do open themselves up to retaliation from someone that knows what they are doing. I was referring to people just being general asses online, not necessarily scammers.

I am sorry. I had misread your post as one that was saying that it is soley up to us to "dodge" others' bad behavior and we can't do anything else about it.

You are absolutely correct that we must use common sense and aviod trouble. I was thinking of those who may not have that common sense (ie children) when I misread it. Again, sorry to lump you in with the "group."

What I dont get is how you can sit there and tell people how to feel and not to get upset yet you're clearly really worked up about all this. How about you take your own advice and not get so upset on what people's values are. They just want the game to be a better place....why the hell are you so opposed to that?

I recall a man who once suggested "sucker-dart" guns you could shoot at other cars when the drivers were driving like idiots...the idea being that a cop could look at the car and pull the guy over for being an A-hole.

Translate this to the online universe: a simple e-mote like the /invite emote where you can tag players for their REPUTATION title.../+charactername for a good turn, /-charactername for a scam or abusive smacktardery...to check them before trusting them a /repcharactername reveals # trustworthy/untrustworthy tags associated with the character...one untrustworthy tag no big deal...130...uh...I'm not buying from you.

Limit it to one tag from any given character/account...The reputation emote would be accessable to everyone...untrustworthy tags can be erased through good deeds...ie.e run three people from point A to point B for free...2 of them give you a /+ on your character and a /- goes away...if a person hits say 100 /- tags, banned for a day or 2. Have them cumulative...if you dont get rid of a few, the next banning is longer...automated...no judgement. Max 5 for one character in an opposing guild so as to prevent abuse (i.e. "gadzukes! this guy's good...everyone tag him and get him banned")...something like that would take little code, be easy to use and would be hard to abuse...Anyone spamming hate in a district could easily get 100 different tags and find himself banned for the day for being a smacktard...

One way or another...it would be self regulating...hold a natural consequence for the action and make people think twice before spewing hate, scamming or dropping from a group.

Whats with all these socialist attitudes? Nothing in the EULA that says I can't act like a jerk if I want to. Sure, report someone for cursing excessively or impersonating a GW representative, but people have every right to act like a jerk if they want to. Just like you have every right to block the person or not group with the person or just simply ignore the person.

Seriously, expecting everyone to act how you think they should is just as childish as some of you are claiming these jerks are. As an adult, learn to deal with people who act in a way that you don't care for.

All I have to say is... welcome to the "free online gaming" atmosphere really. Did you ever stop to wonder why people don't get away with everything in games that have monthly fees? Because people are being paid to monitor them, babysit, regulate, etcetera. Along with answering every /report or /bug thing sent in and have it looked at promptly. Since you're paying a monthly fee on these other games, your customer service comes with it, in good helpings. See somebody being offensive or rude one day on those games? Chances are they will not be around tomorrow.

Now, I love the fact that GW doesn't have a monthly fee, and probably wouldn't play if they did. But I also have to accept the type of random crowd that comes with a free online game as well. Yes, it's usually more of a solo attitude thing, but it still can be a lot of fun. Just have to hope you get that 1 out of 20 or more group that works great together, and has a blast.

As far as the chat thing goes... what else are you gonna do, given the above explanation of things? There are a lot of really immature kids and older people (who should know better) jerks out there that like to turn it into a yahoo chatroom. Since nobody is being paid to listen to all the complaints and reports on people, little will be heard I'm afraid. So, I guess the community just has eachother. Which... I don't know, seems like a lot of people are just too jaded already.

I would say I'm shocked but I'm not, because you are representative of the GW population I made this thread about. Let me quote Demesis for a sec...

Guess I can tell the guy who just got called a 'Dirty Jew' in game to deal with it.

"I mean the holocaust happened in the past. Deal with it. Quit whining, your grandmother died in a concentration camp, deal with it."

"Did that guy waste 2 hours of your time sending you off in the wrong direction?" "What? you only get 2 hours of play in the weekends anyway?"---"Deal with it"

"Hey look, that guy quit after capping the elite, and we're only 1 hour into the mission. We might not make it and it's the 4th time today"---"Quit whining"

"Oh look, that person is calling you a noob on the local channel and now nobody wants to invite you into their party for a mish"---"Deal with it and switch off your local chat"


Inscribed, if you wish to make GW this kinda game...
All I can say is good luck in life with an attitude like that.

Oh and just like "you have every time right to act like a jerk when you want to", we have every right to make a topic in an online forum about it. That's what's great about America. and Canada. and the EU.

Oh yeah?

EULA says you cant spout racist garbage.
EULA says that you can't harass people. (very vague definition there I agree)
EULA says that you can't hamper other player's playing experience (again very vague)


So, no you cant act like a jerk if you want to...unless you're acting like one within the rules. And I doubt that people would care if that were the case.

No I don't buy that. ANET has a business model set up to release a new game every 6 months, generating income that way instead of my monthly fees. This is not a 'free' MMO, this is one with no monthly fees. They should be able to afford at least 1 active GM, or some improvements to the game dynamics.
And I know you won't agree with me, but I personally would rather pay a small monthly fee than put up with this.

Please, get over yourself. Lets go through this.

The EULA addresses offensive material like this. If you are offended by this, report him, and Anet will deal with it.

Yes, if you were dumb enough to spend two hours looking for something based off of what ONE person said, instead of getting other opinions or looking it up on any number of fansites, then deal with it. Learn from your mistakes.

Well, first of all, if you're on your fourth time doing a mission and still haven't completed it, you need to revisit what you're doing. Second, yes, people will sometimes drop for no reason, alot of time just because they just got that cap they needed. All you can do is not group with the person again. If this is a big problem for you, join a reliable guild that will help you with missions.

Uhm, boo hoo? If you are that worried about being let into a group where you got rejected because some random person called you a 'noob', well, heres what you do. First, go wipe the tears from your eyes. Second, try inviting yourself to another group. If that doesn't work, you can always just start your own group. Finally, if that doesn't work, just do something else for a while. Go do some quests or farm, or just log onto a different character for a while.

See how easy that was? And I didn't even have to include coming to a forum and whining.

Thanks for asking, but yes, at 22 years old, me and my attitude are doing quite well for ourselves.

I just find it sad that we can't even talk about wanting a better gaming future without getting people who yell "OH NOES YOU NUBS GET OVER IT!!" and flame us for wanting a better life, in game or just in general....

Best go out and shoot ourselves now eh?

I don't accept people being rude in real life, and I will be damned if I accept it ingame.

Inscribed pretty much said everything I wanted to say.

Kudos to Inscribed.

Exactly

I think the cause of the problems with bad behaviour are for 2 reasons: no montly fee, bound to get more people who like to grief.

No way to ingame report. I have seen people make all kinds of racial/sexual/religious slurs, and there is no way to report it promptly. (that I know of, if there is feel free to correct me, I'd love to know)

You get people like this in every online game, but with no ingame checks, they are free to do as they like.

Ari

You make a non-credit carded game, you get kids..that's what ya get...

The all chat turn-offer is your friend. (I NEVER ignore somebody. You never know if they're gonna say something so funny that I can post on guru in teh funny chat pictures topic )

I find that arguement highly irrelevant. Age has nothing to do with a person's maturity or how they act towards others.

For me, i can tolerate a certain amount of "jerkness"

The website is very vague when it comes to exact situations that constitute as player harrassment....however theres some things that it does specify.

http://guildwars.com/support/legal/rulesofconduct.php

Not really. All you've pretty much said was screaming at others to "get over it"

I agree that the community is awefull compared to pretty much any other mmorpg (or similiar type.) To be completely honest I think it has a lot to do with the fact that there is no monthly fee (sorry if it's been mentioned I didn't read through all the posts) but I would gladly pay a monthly fee as I feel that would get rid of the caual players and only the ones who are serious about the game are going to invest money.

I'd even consider paying a small fee to play on a seperate server. Like the "golden server" whatever they want to call it. Make some marketing ploy to keep the kiddies out and I'd bite.

After all it seems like most of the annoying people came from Runescape or something. I see people seeing accounts all the time. But yeah... it's bad... maybe an rpg channel? but still that would get abused so I'm clueless as to how to solve it... so i'll just deal with it.

I have to agree that people have got worse in the game I remeber when i first played the game I was a complete as the Jackasses put it No0b or as I like to put rookie at the game. I used my Ranger as a Warrior as I liked the look of my ranger but wanted to be a Warrior

And all that time I spent playing the game about 3 people commented when i was in missions the rest didn't mind and actaully commented on my Warrior skills lol

Now however if I did that people would most likely yell at me calling me a noob and all the other crap they spew out

People saying what can arena net do? quite simple they need more Admins online they do have some how else do they get the scribe? These Admins could be just random people who have applied to be one, course they would have to be some contract so if they abuse it they get fined or something like that.

Arena net do actually encorage people to Scam and to Flame by making the game so bloody competive that people get really frustrated and as its free and very competitve all the Jerks flock to it. How to get round it focus more on what people want don't make green items look so crappy make some really nice one which they have started on so Thumbs up for that one, all they need is to add loads more in the game, more gold stupid how the end game areas you get about 3 gold per monster in the top missions, not only that but they don't give your item back when its stolen I remeber when i farmed for Runes and I finally got a Sup Vigor this was when I had Glad armor and was saving for 15k so I was excited that my hard work was paid off but alas I got scammed and got tricked in selling for 15g when I said to Arena net please can I have it back I worked really hard don't let him win. All they said was no can't do anything about it we can ban him for a week but thats we will discuss it with the player

And as most jerks are slimey basterds he most likely got away with it, hearing that everquest actually gives you your item back sounds great, Tho I can see people abusing it.


Unfortutly Guild wars is not a nice enviroment it can be nice but most likely you'll be doing quests alone as everyone is busy selling and if you have no real world friends online its going to be a preety lonely game

What can we do? tell Arena net to get Admins ingame tell them to add the Auction house now so people can just put the item in and leave it and of course us the players who have had to put up with jerks we gotta be role models of such.

I don't mind jerkish behavior, as long as it is clever, witty, and biting. I'm saddened by the low levels of intelligence that I find in Guild Wars where everyone pretty much repeats the same put downs and can't get through a sentence without simple words and simple cusses.


My fiancee and I have pretty much learned to play the game with just each other and henchmen and I never pay attention to what is going on in town. It was the Dragon Festival that exposed me to the typical behavior as, for once, I spent most of my time hanging out in town. Otherwise, I keep to myself. I don't know the good people/players out there. I don't get to play UW/FOW. But that's fine. Guild Wars gets part of our game playing time and we often take long breaks (months) to go play other things.

So you get to define what I wanted to say?

And people call me a jerk.

I respect playing strategies of everybody, but you have to see it from the healer's point of view. You were completely draining the monk's energy to yourself. At that moment you were even worst than an assassin. Same armour, but the lack of fast killing skills.
I would have quit healing you, and most certainly not compliment you. When you are solo, you can play how you like, but in a party you have more people to take in consideration.
If I got a dollar for every ranged fighter who depleted my energy because he was tanking, I was rich by now.

My personal rules to play by...
(Taken from a post I placed a while ago, but it still holds true...for me anyways. And , yes, a lot of it is meant to be silly)
-----------------
All I Ever Really Needed to Know I Learned in Guild Wars
( I apologize the Robert Fulghum for blatant plagiarism)

• Share and help others.
• Play fair.
• Don't scam people.
• Give things back when you borrow them.
• Clean up your storage regularly.
• Don't take things that aren't yours.
• Say you're sorry when you can’t rez somebody.
• Wash your hands before you play.
• If you must go AFK – tell people & be sure to flush.
• Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you, but not for your keyboard.
• Live a balanced life - Don’t just play GW. Learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play GW and work every day some.
• Take naps whenever you can, especially if you plan on power leveling that evening.
• When you go out in PvE, watch out for things that pop out of the ground, don’t aggro and stick with your party.
• Be aware of wonder don’t mock it. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
• Minions and pets and henchies and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
• And then remember the D&D books and the first games you played - the most important rule of all – PLAY.

People in WoW and Everquest ARE like this, there just aren't as many...and I'll tell you why. Guild Wars has no monthly fee, which means any 13 yr old or immature adult can pay 50 bucks and play. If they had a bad day they can come home and purporsely piss people off to vent their frustrations.
Alot of parents won't pay a monthly fee for their kids to play a "game" and most adults won't pay a monthly fee unless they like to actually "play" the game. I love that Guild Wars is free online play and I don't want that to change, but it would have less @$$h0l3s with a monthly fee.

I disagree that a fee would fix it. With everquest especially there was gm's just wandering around and 99% a gm you could call on to come handle a issue. Something guildwars does not have and if it was implemented I would put 1mil k down that a majority of the jerks acting like jerks knowing that they could be banned at a push of a button would stop. That includes spammers, scammers and many of the people that just yap off garbage that shouldnt be said in the game.

People that defend jerks or jerkish behavior ARE jerks themselves.

Oh, you do.

There's a nice tab in the GW website called Support. In there, there's a place where you can write to the GW team, and one of the options to talk about is, "Report a Violation".

Do you use it?

"No, it's not in game" - if you are going to answer that, stop being lazy. You have the means to "don't accept" the rudeness you see in game, if you don't use it, well, you are being either lazy or hipocrite when you say you won't accept it. It takes as long to report something there as it takes to make a post here...So instead of complaining about how WoW is better ( ), either do something to stop it, or quit whining.

(Oh, and just take a look at the WoW Forum, and you'll see how the "social atmosphere" there is healthy.)

Erasculio