Lack of accountabilty = Poor behavior in game

Only those that don't know where it comes from or understand the comedy in it would find that offensive which is based off of assumptions into their meaning of their statements and not having the knowledge of where it came from. So, basicaly its based off of an opinion. I really don't think its anything to fuss over. Also I remeber the user agreement where it asked if you where a certain age or not when loading the game so I think this comedy is allowable (my opinion!!) for the age group that is suppose to be playing this game.

Anyways some people will find something offensive that others don't. Now all they have to do is to agree to disagree and just worry about themselves. I can understand saying you don't like something but to try and force an opinion on an other is wrong.

Stop making a big deal out of poor behaviour in-game, and poor behaviour in-game stops being a big deal.

Problems arent solved by ignoring them, stop telling people that. If they want to clean up some unacceptable behaviour then let them. But yeah sometimes you just have to let go.

It's not "handled by a computer" - it's just that always, after sending a ticket, you get an automatic answer (that is given by a computer), and later an answer by one of the GMs (not only they give you their names, but also NC Soft used to send you an e-mail, later, asking you how did the GM work; that has been turned off for some time now).

(If you don't want to believe in me, Gaile said so herself.)

Also, keep in mind that there is a difference between offensive behavior and impersonating an Arena Net (or NC Soft) employer. The later has been mentioned as being ground for imediate banning - the former isn't, and it's something I doubt to be done on the first time a person is reported for being offensive.

If anything, this makes reporting even more important - if someone isn't banned for the first violation, unless someone reports the second one, that person is likely going to get away with a small punishment.

(Anyway, this isn't done by Arena Net - this is done by NC Soft employers. I don't think Arena Net has any GM itself - the Game Credit kinda hints at that, too.)

Erasculio

While this is a noble suggestion, I don't foresee that being a "guarantee" to provide a more mature experience. It probably would help reduce the bad behavior, but I'm sure all the little Bobby's out there will beg mommy and daddy till they're blue in the face for a paid account. Lord knows there's probably plenty of immature kids, etc that would still get on a paid account. Also, I know there are a lot of people in the game that have specifically chosen to play GW over games like WoW because of the lack of monthly subscription fee. Playing in a monthly fee GW would probably make it very difficult to get into groups and such because they number of people willing to pay would surely be much less than the non-pay. Anyway, good idea though....just not sure it would work very well.

Plus I wouldnt pay $15 a month for a very lacking game environment per month. If that was the case i would go back to evercrack or go do D&D online that way I got my money worth from the game. Guild wars could never account for a $15 fee per month. For anet to get a $15 dollar fee in my opinion they would need this.


-1 vs 1 battles wherever you like by having a /duel command
-more storage
-slots for every chracter type
-non linear pathway along with swimming and jumping and levitation
-search functions for searching where people are and what guild mates are on and such for searching other guilds then your own
-more pve content, and I mean a lot more
-more equipment like rings, earnings and armor slots
-more levels
-more skills that arnt copies of the original ones
-actual pve guild raids/content
-quests for like example epic weapons or whatever they wish to call it
-fishing
-crafting

i could keep on going on and on

thus why this game is free lol

Because it pertains to this and I’m not sure if it’s been overviewed by all the debaters here:




There is more to conduct breaches and outcomes. Just check the link to get the best understanding.

If I had checked this earlier I would have modified my original idea better. This is, to me, a fair system.

Effective? Apparently not as of yet. Maybe with a large and newly motivated group of community nanny’s and a responsive support group from Anet it can be.

As cool as I like to think my suggestion was, (soft but lasting deterrents by likely manager presence and peer pressure in instant reaction time) the issue comes down to time and resources and Anet seems to not have a lot of that. Although, I still in favor of a kick proposal as some ones team efforts may not breach Anets guidelines but still cases players’ grief.

Perhaps what its likely to come down to for a real and recognizable fix is, like I said, a committed group of dedicated community watchdogs, or Anet to crank down (if necessary because we really don’t know what number of reports they get and what they respond to), or both.

Then perhaps a lasting change will actually come down to each individual player’s since of responsibility. I wish I could take bets. This will be a looong process of change if ever one. Lucky i guess that this is game community for this likely plan of action.

I have been going with the personal fix (and the highly suggested it seems) of thick skin and/or ignoring stuff. And though that doesn’t solve anything, it’s an easy subjective solution.

But because I can be so indifferent I will at least make my new personal mission to try help to others seek justice to their offences by talking them through this process while in game. This is more than I’ve done before.

Wow great post Goonter. Thank you for posting the rules here, that proves that what we are complaining about IS a breach of the EULA.

What you said below it though was very thoughtful and honest. I'm coming from the same place actually. I've held to a policy of being think-skinned and ignoring it all, and like you, because I've been so indifferent, I'm trying to do just alittle bit now.

/Applaud

It's the internet people ARE going to be assholes, it's a scientific fact

I was worried at first that this thread would be just another coprolite someone dug up, but I checked the first post and it said "yesterday". Of course, that's not actually better at all...

No, it's not a scientific fact. It's a scientific likelihood, but far from a fact. For example:

Some people are not assholes. Some people are not going to be assholes. Some people have never been assholes.

But how often do you notice them?

I can quietly enter a town, hit the merchant, hit the Xunlai, order up some Henchmen, and hit the road. That's fun, although not as much as working with other people. But when I do that, it's silent. If I do the same thing but pick up a group through Guild or Alliance chat, it's still silent to the town's population. Nobody will notice, nobody will care, and nobody will be improving their gaming experience anytime soon. It won't deteriorate, but it won't improve.

I was waiting for someone to post that.

While it is against the rules to "defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players", "use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive language", and equally to "organize nor be a member of any pledges or groups within Guild Wars that are based on or espouse any racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay, or other hate mongering philosophies" the odds are that even if you do, nothing will happen to you.

Without a consequence to actions both positive and negative, society cannot function. As a small-scale model an MMORPG functions the same way. If "good behavior" gains the End User nothing more than would asshatery and shitcockery of the highest degree, that little voice in the bowels of your cerebellum pipes up, "why not?" A cynic would say that it's inevitable.

Hurricane Katrina destroyed huge swaths of Louisiana. In the aftermath, New Orleans was, and in places still is, completely lawless. Littering, latering, loitering, and lootering as far as the eye can see. Why? Because the social order broke down. There were no consequences for "negative" actions.

The internet is the same way. There are no consequences. If there are, then they are few and far between. For better or for worse, that is how it stands as of now. There's no real reason it should be that way other than the fact that that is what happens when nothing happens.

You get what you pay for. This is one of the consequences of having no monthly fees, it attracts idiots like flies to trash.

I think that positive peer pressure helps. We should stand up and call people on bad behavior. In my experience I have found that when several people call someone on inappropriate conduct in a nonconfrontational way that allows the other person to save some face it often helps.

Sure this isnt going to foce someone to stop but my experience of this game is that most of the people are good people and willing to help.

There are always going to be people who get a thrill out of being vulgar and rude --- face it the main demographic for this game I believe is teenage boys. Not a group necessarily known for selfcontrol and clean language.

Nobody is going to find the game fun if ANET ran it with some sort of Iron Fist.

And ANET does ban people. Send screen shots with the location date and time and they will look into it. I have resorted to this on occasion.

Typical, "lol".

You don't want GW - all of the features above are seen in WoW and the classic MMORPGs. What you don't get (despite how the game has been released two years ago) is that GW isn't the poor man's MMORPG - it's a different game, with a different mentality. The fact that there isn't a monthly fee isn't an excuse for a lack of content - it's the other way around, the lack of a monthly fee means the game may not have the thousands of time sinks that other MMORPGs have. Do you want Fishing, to spend hours doing nothing as you wait for your skill to go from 1 to 50, so it can go from 50 to 100, and then from 100 to 150, etc, until you're at 500 and then you can do something cool? To spend hours killing level 1 bunnies while you're level 1, so you can level up faster to level 100 and kill level 100 bunnies? To grind for equipment that destroy the PvE balance? All of those are against GW philosophy - one that you don't understand, it seems.

One of the plagues of GW are the players who would be rather playing WoW but, for one reason or the other, can't play it. GW is not WoW for free, it's not EQ for free - it is a different game, and it has meant to be different. If you would rather have something else, well, maybe it's not the game for you.

Erasculio

Exactally.

Though, of course, with games that have no montly fee, people are more of jerks. Take any free MMO, and if the player base is large a lot of the people will be jerks.

Oh I know what I am talking about being I have played most of the rpg online and non online dating back before commodore 64 lol.

1. sure I want gw or I would have never bought it.

2. Yes GW is the poor man's rpg or for the person that doesn't want to pay a monthly fee. I myself are in the later that I don't want to pay a monthly fee anymore due to I don't play enough to get my money's worth anymore.

3. Lack of a fee is the reason why there is less content. The more content anet adds the more servers and space they will require thus raising the price of the game. I know this as a fact since I am a qualified network adminstrator with cisco and nortel certification. Thus, why we don't have the storage alot of people want, why we dont have non linear maps along with many of the other stuff that yes you see in other rpg's but people would like to see in this game.

4. Now fishing! Why not? With all the new titles could be easily implemented and I know for a fact that anet themselves could do it just based off the last dragon festivities and the gambling so they have a random number system. Just put some ponds in some of the bigger cities or even the smaller ones lie Toa which in the case of toa has the march right there and make it that that you get title points for the fish you catch and maybe the size of them.

5. Now as for the levels I really don't think if every expansion they added an other 10 levels would really affect pvp since every one would go get the same exact skills and get their lvl 30 and the game would still be balanced. Basically what I feel is that it would give teh game a feel of accomplishment for some and give people like myself a few more days of game play leveling up. Now previous characters would propbably get those 10 levels just going through the new content but the new character classes would be more of a challenge since now they would be lvl 30 and then next expansion they would have to get 40. Its just an idea and an opinion.

6. Now grinding for equipment. You could easily implement some quests that in the end gives you an item that would not screw up the balance of the game which you seem to be so worried about lol and have an item like a staff that is named after yourself , customized that maybe could be Red item and came with a certain based stat and could be modded or not modded. That would be up to anet. Again just an idea.

7. I also don't see how any of my other ideas screw with the balance of the game. Easier 1 vs 1 battles and such would be great.

Now back to the point I made in my original post. It isn't that I want an other game. It was just features I said you would need to make this a fee game. I also didnt state that these features need to be added again just an opinion on what I think would need to be added to charge a monthly fee and thus why I said the game is free now.

Finally I am quite aware of the game and how it works thank you and I am not against the GW philosophy. Again what was stated in prior post is what we call in the real world an opinion in which everyone is allowed and it does not mean in your words "one that you don't understand, it seems" . since I do understand and I think you need to read what was also posted above and why I said I wouldn't pay a fee since it seems it is you that does not understand.


Let me recap it for you. Person A said put a fee that way could get rid of the childishness and such and what I am saying is that I wouldn't pay a fee unless they added the content worth paying a fee. For $15 a month I can go play D&D online or everquest 2 and have way more content and features then what guildwars can provide now. Now that is why I made that post to show why anet could never implement a fee because those features would have to be added to justify a fee in ths game in which I am well aware of and most likely never happened in which I am not worried about. I am 98% sure that if a fee was added to this game that guild wars would fall apart and loose many other people that would go look for an other free game or if forced to pay a fee would go pay a fee for a game with way more content which was the whole point.

Now your final note of "well, maybe it's not the game for you" . I have been hearing this way to much and seeing it all over guru and in my opinion is a pathetic comment. Just because people would like to see things implemented in a game doesn't mean the game isnt for me or that I wouldn't pay a fee for a game since it lacks the content doesn't mean the game isnt for me. Again just opinion. Overall I am happy with guildwars even though Factions was way to short. I already have 4 characters through factions in which one beat all quests and one beat all missions and is protector. I own all armor that I would like to own which is basically a couple suits of armor per each of my characters and I have all weapons I want other then a couple I want to build eventually for the fun of it but not in dire need of now. I have mils saved up in gp so this is why I would like something like fishing to spend my time doing while I am waiting for people to go quest or just talking to people. Basically all there is left for me in this game is pvp (which I am not a huge fan of and have more fun doing random arenas but occasionally go do halls and happy with my r3 emote lol since bambi is COOL) or I could go farm in which I don't need any items or money at this point.

Which leads to my final point. Most likely and I assume based off my own circumstances that it is the rich people in game (that didn't ebay) that have every thing done multiple times that are the people that would like to see some other stuff added since probably gone thru the game 4+ times and you can only pvp so much before you get bored and want to do something else.


Hmm yeah I dont understand lol :P :P

P.S. if you are going to quote me at least quote my whole post which even stated that if there was a fee I would go play the other games for the content in the first section "Plus I wouldnt pay $15 a month for a very lacking game environment per month. If that was the case I would go back to evercrack or go do D&D online that way I got my money worth from the game. Guild wars could never account for a $15 fee per month. For anet to get a $15 dollar fee in my opinion they would need this. "

Suggesting to add all those features to GW is like suggesting to add flamethrowers to NASCAR. It doesn't fit.

Edit: But whoa this is pretty offtopic! This should probably be taken to a different thread or better yet forgotten because it's dumb!

Actually it was on topic.

And yep I know guild wars is this way but It was just a point that if they tried to add 15 dollar fee then they would have to add all that content since I highly doubt anyone would pay for such low content when they can pay that price for a game with same content plus way way more which was the whole point.

This is why guildwars will always be free and lacking in content which was my whole point.

And they where not suggestions but point just being made for why there is no fee.

If anet charged a fee they would not be able to keep up with the compettion of the other fee based games with their current content.

And for being off topic I am not since someone suggested that their would be a fee to get rid of the jerks and thus why I said why it would never happen.

No. It doesn't fit. Those features don't belong in Guild Wars, they belong where they can be found--in an MMO. I'm very glad GW isn't an MMO, because that's one of the reasons I play it.

Hmm yeah what I am saying is a bunch of crap. Pretty ignorant to sit there and in the quote say I am saying crap since its just opinion. Sorry kid but what you're yapping is really the crap and I think your just in here to start a flame war because really you need to learn how to read lol.

The point your making is the point I am exactly making but based on the fee and thus why there will never be a fee.

Like you said the features don't fit thus shouldn't be added (unless of course they add a fee then those features would fit because I know for a fact its all based on end cost, business 101). That is what I am saying about the fee. It works both ways. They bring features they maybe charge fee or if they bring fee then they need to add features which is not this game. And if you take time to read my first post at the begining and at the end where it says thus why the game is free.

Btw your the type of jerks they are talking about wanting removed from the game just based of f the fact of how ignorant you are with the quotes and opinions of others.

I would be all for GMs monitoring the chat, but frankly I doubt this fits the GW financial model. They don't really have the funds for a very large staff if they basically get a ton of money every twelve months and then next to nothing until the next expansion. This is one of the features that I see being implemented when ArenaNet starts releasing expansions on somewhat of a schedule, since then they can have the money for this kind of a thing.

They could out source for it. Find some players willing to monitor under the rules and guidlines set out by anet. May even pay them in gp but that might be a little far fetched. But still I know many that would do it for free for a couple hours here and there. My only suggestion would be to give these players an other specialized account for loggin a 1 character only gm that has all zones unlocked. Wouldn't have to worry about lvl or nothing and give them some like gm armor and specialized colour text and make it so they can't be ignored or filtered.

Meh the people with bad behavior do not really bother me all that much I just regard them as infantile and moronic and go on my way. And the $15.00 a month would kill this game atleast for me. Hell one of the reasons I bought it was "FREE PLAY FOREVER" And I am sure that a charge would not down the amount of idiotic players it would just spawn a whole new breed of over cocky my crap dont stink aholes.

Nice thought, but frankly there is no good way to filter out the players that would abuse their privileges as a mod. It would solve small problems with local chat while creating major problems with abuse. Take away their ability to abuse and they have no power and can easily be ignored.

It's a problem without an easy solution.

The answer to all of this is very simple. Where you find abusive behavior, confront the person like an adult and ask them to stop. Provide a reason why the behavior is abusive to the community. If the person is excessively abusive, let them know you are reporting the offense and report the offense. If the person is mildly annoying add them to your ignore list.

I am easily offended by comments about rape since it tends to destroy peoples lives, yet some feel it is fair game to joke about. Odds are there are people who have suffered rape playing the game and no one should dare rub salt in those wounds. I make a point of PMing people who offend me in this fashion with a message saying "rape isn't funny" and if they insist that I need to lighten up I'll give a fuller explanation. Normally that is enough to remind people that they are in public and they need to act it.

If things are bothering you and you aren't saying anything, that is part of the problem. You don't have to address every idiot, but politely PMing those that bother you is only helping the community.

The answer is so bloody simple I can't believe NO current game developers have figured it out.

The lack of accountability amplifies real life personalities. Anytime a community is left to police themselves, that community must be given tools to deal with this type of problem.

Rather then reinvent the wheel, simply pull from a known working model; Ebay's feedback! The ability to add feedback for trading / questing that would add a permanent mark on someone's account would fix this problem quickly.

I just don't understand how developers could have missed such a simple solution.

Systems=abuse. Would you really like your credit score hanging around your neck when you went to the grocery store?

Mm ebay feedback is actually flawed. I myself have negative feedback when I wasnt even in the wrong and some people even hold it over your head when dealing with them.

for example one deal a guy charge me for a more expensive shipping and sent it reg post. when I asked for some money back since he didnt send the way he said he would he left me a negative.

Also on an other occasion I bought something in which in his ad said accepted paypal so I paid with paypal but he wasnt a premium account holder thus couldnt acept cc paypal which is agaisnt the ebay guidlines since if you say accept paypal you have to accept all forms. In that case he said I didnt even pay him and gave me a negative which in reality I paid him 1 time he denied, I told him of rules repaid and he denied again.

I also have a third one in which a guy just backed out of the deal, think he didnt even have the item left but no idea. He left a negative because I filed a dispute.


On all three of my negatives I filed disputes and won too and ebay never removed my negatives and only suggested going to a fee based 3rd party square trade.

Anyways ebay feedback and thier system is flawed in some cases.

My point being anyone can leave false feedback.

It doesn't matter where you go, you'll find a jerk somewhere. It happens. But in real life (yeah, one of those, I think you can find them outside of GW ) you don't (normally) hang out with people you think are jerks. Instead, you hang out with your own group of friends (Guild) <---- see what I'm getting at?

It's more fun for me to hang out online with the friends I make in my guild, the guild keeps people at an arms length and have direct control over who's in it or not

That way, you won't have to much worry about random jerks in towns.... Local chat off, FTW!

I don't remind reporting things when I feel they are wrong. My problem is its so damn hard to report things. You have to sign up on a website. Then go through all these drop down menus.

They need a system IN GAME that can report things. Its not hard for them to do a little digging. All the chat logs are recorded. They can bring them up any time they want. Just provide the offenders name, what time it happened, town you where in, and what dist.

Taking about an hour of my day to report some one for being childish and rude is rather futile. I'd spend all my playiing time reporting people.

Ummm.....no, we do NOT have in game GMs. Anyone claiming to be an in game GM is lying.

It's not the good people's fault. I loose my temper some times when people say "yeah I've done this a thousand times" and go off and agro like a ninny. First time "sorry, I lagged" is forgiveable, second time its a habit.

Personally, when I act like a jerk, its because we've already lost all hope of winning, and I there is no reason to try. When I drop, I try to explain that there is something direly important that requires my attendence outside of Guild Wars, or elsewhere (though not often).

I know I've done the 100k to anyone who can touch me at Glint once or twice for kicks- but anyone with half a brain knows its just a joke anyway.

I've been around some utter newbs/n00bs, but I'm more tolerant of the newbs. Why? Because its sad. I have time to play a few hours a day, where as they once a week/month. I'll help them when I have nothing to do- or a spare iron ingot/platinum/weapon.

N00bs are the ones we can't stand. The ones who work against you. They are the ones who just need to get punched in the face and be taught a lesson. The endless stream of Wammo's that blame the monks when they die, the people who /dance when there is fighting to do, the people who USE ALL CAPS.



On a side note- Go play runescape. At least compared to them, we are literally 1000x times better. Seriously, that number isn't exagerated. Every other message in the chat box in Lumbridge is FREE GP PLZ LOL and everywhere else its "hey buddy, I'll give you 500k for your full rune." etc etc etc etc...

No GM in the game in going to tell you he's a GM unless you already know them. It would compromise their secret identity. :P

1) Anet employees play this game. <---This is a fact.

2) If an Anet employee sees you breaking the EULA, you are pretty much guranteed a ban.

3) There are Anet employees that are specificically playing and moderating the game. <---This is probably a very questionable statement because I cant say or prove anything without compromising said people. The whole "Trust me theres GMs" is ridiculous, so take it with a grain of salt, but I know what I've seen.

Lack of accountability =

Did you report that guy? In the GW website?

Erasculio

You know what? I reckon, to avoid all the people spamming and insulting in caps, we should all just turn off local chat and speak in trade chat. Seeing as all the noobs and insulters are using the local channel and abusing the filters, lets just ignore them and conduct our buisness in guild, alliance and trade channels!

Thats right! I'M CALLING A STRIKE ON USING THE LOCAL CHANNEL! ITS TIME TO RISE UP AND IGNORE THE NOOBS! LETS FIGHT BACK!

...Sorry for the caps, I got all excited, but seriously, turn off local (unless you are helping new players, who I believe are different from 'noobs') and start a new life in the trade channel

When I'm selling something, I'm going to spam whichever channel has the most people using it. Usually its local chat, but if everyone started using trade channel to chat, I'd spam there instead.

*sigh* I'm inclined to agree that current local chats of certain towns tend to be flooded with lots of rude remarks and whatnot. I suggest reporting users to NCSoft in hope that something will be done about them. We can't totally purge all assholes from the game, but we can atleast get rid of a few. A few is better than nothing.

1) Possibility is there, assumption is there too!

2) How would you know of their personalities? Are every one of them highly professional? Again, quit being assertive when you obviously don't know every single one of em Anet employees!

3) If you can't say or prove anything without compromising, that isn't the truth is it? Enlighten me, please.

Number 1 is actually a fact, There is some anet employees that play this game. Which means that your reply for number 1 should really be for number 3 lol.

Years ago, on Compuserve (yes, compuserve) they had a system for notifying management if someone was being abusive in one of the chat rooms. You could type something, I can't remember what and one of the mods would show up and "listen" in. I think Anet could implement something like this where you could type /mod with dist and place and some one could come and catch them in the act.