Skipping cutscenes should not use a consensus model

The consensus model (i.e., everyone must be in favor for some behavior for some action to take place) should not be applied to the skipping of cinematics. If a player wants to skip a cutscene, allow that player to skip and continue with the game, along with other players who also want to skip. Any player who does not skip the cinematic may then watch without infringing on the experience of the other players. The player who is still watching the cutscene while the other players are playing the game would have his/her character name in the Party dialog dimmed in a different color other than the standard gray. This player would also not appear in the game until playback of the cutscene is complete or the player skips the cinematic.

And then players would find themselves either:

A) Left behind by their party because they chose to watch the cut scene
B) Missing out in XP/Items because they chose to watch the cut scene
C) Having to wait for half the party watching the cut scene, anyway
D) Having to wait for cut-scene after effects to begin after the scene anyway, as in the Great Northern Wall mission.

I don't really see what the problem is here. If you REALLY dislike waiting the 3 minutes or less it takes to watch a cut scene, use Henchmen, or establish rules when picking up a PUG. Most of the time, if half the party wants to skip, then the other half will be "peer pressured" into it. This system is problematic and would not only fail to fix the "problem" but create more in the process.

Only near the end of the game do the cut scenes get longer and more tedious. It's part of the game. Let us lump it in that all inclusive category of negativitity we so fondly have named "Grind."

But but.. I like the horrible voice acting!

If you ever noticed, if you see mobs attacking you in the cutscene, it happens in real time, i.e. you lose health from the attacks. the cutscenes are played out with your in game character acting, so if you decided to skip the cutscene and go off (if you can actually do it), other's watching to cutscene will see you running off in the movie. And if you happen to be the leader, who's gonna do all the pointing and talking. heh, i think programming wise it's not that easy to implement.

Why would you play an RPG if you do not want to view the lovely plot thickening cut scenes? And if you say something like "Well, I've seen it a hundred times...and it's gotten boring" then I should suggest you try out some golden oldies like Actraiser, FFI-X(because every other numbered FF sucks beyond belief) The 7th Sage, etc. Or if you don't have consoles THAT old...try Donkey Kong, Mario 64, etc...

Or you could play some of those newer "PS2" RPG's like Dark Cloud 1&2, Xenosaga(has over 24 hours of cutscenes though!) Shadow Hearts 1&Covenant(very nice character models in them )

Or you can just quit complaining all together that your RPG experience is slower than you would like, especially compared to something fast like an FPS...

Players wouldn't be left behind when they're teleported to a safe location nearby the continuing party, if the continuing party has travelled a great distance. Or, players who skip the cutscene could be prevented from travelling a great distance until the other party members finish with the cinematic.
...and players in other instances are missing out on experience and items gained and acquired in your instance, right? If a player chooses not to skip a cutscene, they inherently chose not to play the game for the time they continue watching the cutscene. For that time, it seems fair to me for that player to "miss out" on experience and items while they were technically AFK.
This probably wouldn't happen unless the party members who are watching the cinematics are headstrong, are not swayed by the incentive to skip (i.e., to play, gain experience, acquire items, and progress through a mission with a party), and/or are really away from the keyboard. In the latter case, a party would want to wait for a key member to return from away status anyway. Moreover, I'd rather be in control of my character and be able to dance or run around bored instead of muting the sound and falling asleep.
Solution: don't use cinematics as event triggers. Use time. Or, even better, if the party majority votes to skip, the cinematic that triggers an event is skipped regardless of what the minority wanted. And worse, but fair, cinematics which trigger events should be based on a consensus model. Other cinematics which don't trigger events should not, however.

By the way, setting party "rules", and even politely requesting that cinematics be skipped, rarely works because there's usually that one player who either a) genuinely likes the cinematics, b) is a newbie and feels obligated to watch the cinematic for the first time, or c) purposely doesn't skip the cinematic to be a jerk. Party "rules" cannot be enforced and, thus, do not ensure compliance. To use your "use henchmen" cop-out in a different way, hey, if you want to watch a cinematic, watch it on your own time!

Who are you to tell me what my experience should encompass? Only poor design produces poor functionality. The "Skip" function is poorly designed, poorly implemented, and infringes on the experience of other players. Call it "complaining" if you want, but ultimately, comments regarding what players think is fun and not fun are solicited for in the Suggestions forum and during internal testing. For example, during the Everquest 2 pre-beta and beta stages, mandatory 1-hour play sessions of the game were required throughout SOE. The objective of these sessions was to produce general feedback on the experience. In fact, SOE went even farther by internally providing a mailing list where "savagely brutal honesty" was encouraged in order to a) get to the root of gaming problems and b) to thicken the skins of the developers for when they read message boards. So please, don't tell me what my experience should encompass and especially don't tell me to stop "complaining". By the way, "suggestion" is a term that more accurately describes what's actually done in this forum.

If he's a newbie, and hasn't ever seen the cinematic, then there's absolutely no reason for others to complain or bitch around, although most people act like this is some kind of crime. In fact, everytime I'm in a mission and 1 or 2 didn't skip the cutscene, and others started complaining, I clearly state that it's absolutely okay for those that don't know them to watch them. And I know that Newbies are on board, I even won't skip the cinematic myself, so that they don't feel pressed to skip (although they would like to see it). This is no majority - minority thing. If you don't want to see cutscenes, then don't play missions. If you are playing through the game with another character you want to progress, then you play the storyline, and the cutscenes are part of that. I much rather have people watching cutscenes, than those asking at Ring of Fire what the hell happened to them and what everything was about.

If the player is a newbie and hasn't ever seen the cinematic, then the other players who have seen the cinematic and don't want to see it again should be able to continue their experience without being halted to wait for some newbie to catch up.

...and I completely disagree. It is not "absolutely okay" for anyone to infringe on the gaming experience of other players. If it were okay, then godmode should be allowed. In fact, let's allow bots too. Inflation of the market with bot-acquired money? Sure! Why not!? After all, it's "absolutely okay" for everyone to have an experience unbounded by rules and consideration, right?

Philosophy. For the good of the majority must the benefit of the minority be sacrificed; however, as I said previously, workarounds should not be relied upon when there is a viable solution to a design problem.

Cinematics aren't necessary to the progression of the game. Missions are though. Your suggestion is ridiculous. Unwanted cutscenes halt the players' progression whether they like it or not. Halting players' experiences is a no-no in good game design, especially when players are forced into bad experiences or repetition.

Have you ever played through the entire game? There is no rational reason for forcing experienced and ascended players to watch poorly produced cutscenes umpteenth times. If NCsoft is concerned with keeping veteran players playing the game, which due to the static story is getting staler and staler for many, they'll at least re-implement the "Skip" option to attempt to fit the principles of user interaction.

Does Teamwork mean anything to you?

Sorry, the whole idea is just stupid.

Let me point it out:
You are so focused on yourself that you can't see the reason for the current system.

First of all: technically you act in the cutscenes, so, if the leader skips, whose going to act?

Second: You are punishing people for playing the game the way it is intended. You shall watch those cinematics. If you have watched it before - yeah, go and skip it - or just don't listen to it. You cannot play the mission on your own. If all but 1 guy will skip, this 1 guy will be left behind. That is a punishment.

What if you are the only one to skip: you can't do anything. So why not watch the movie? It really doesn't matter.

You also have to wait for the event to be triggered, so most of the time you will stand for a closed gate or something...

A team shall stay as a team - your proposal would split the team - that can't be good.

I like the cutscenes. I would just like to know who skipped, and who didn't.

I just wish we could "chat" while in the cutscene. I do not care if someone wants to see it for the first time. That is thier privilage. I just want to get out of the scene like many others have stated because we are getting hammered by left over monsters. Otherwise, I never bitch at anyone for wanting to stay in the cutscene to see it. It is a good time to take a break, light up a smoke, make a quick(I mean QUICK) rest room run.

Nothing worst then here someone gripe and complain after the cutscene on WHO DIDN'T CLICK SKIP?

Er, the cutscenes progress the story and usually explain what is happening, or what is required of you. Hardly what I'd call an infringement on your time.

The only time you might skip them is if you're re-doing amission with a PUG i.e Thirsty River, and in that case you wouldn't want someone new to the mission skipping the CS and having no idea what to do and neither would you want the rest of the party ploughing on a teamamte down.

All you've presented after you're initial post is a lot of hot air and and egotistical me first me first whining in addition to derision of the ability to skip a cutscene if there is a majority vote to do it, by calling it poor design.

skipping cutscenes cause of majority would be a really dumb idea cause then you ruin it for the people who are playing it for the first time spent like 1 hr playing just to get the whole story line skipped and end up fighting something that they had no clue about or are teleported back to town already. Like is your experience totally ruined cause of those 3 minutes!?!? 3 minutes!?? if so then those people should try another hobby and practices the virtue of patience.

I see a contradiction here.

So you're telling me, that it's "Fair" for them to miss out, because you feel your gaming experience is infringed upon..by them wanting to watch a cut scene. So, you take away 'their' gaming experience, for the sake of yours.

It's contradictory. If you really have such an issue, do it with Henchmen. Otherwise, this isn't a viable solution.

And in the end, "Technically AFK" would mean they got up and left the computer. Somebody watching a cut scene is anything but AFK. To say they are AFK is an uninformed err.

A solution I could think of? Seperate districts between those that have done the Mission and those that haven't. Those that have done the Mission, seeing as they've ALL had a chance to watch, won't have any cutscenes, and those that haven't, will continue on as is. Might also help balance out parties, and quell rushing of lowbies. This way, you'd only have to watch, at max, 4 times, unless you delete/remake.

Sir Maddox's suggestion is the most fair so far but I feel even that is not a good change. It would further split already divided districts in the European World.

I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill and not even worth discussing anymore

Well said.
A player who thinks it's no big deal to move ahead without regard for one or more teammates reminds me of the type of player who charges enemies even when the plan was to pull them or who will attack even if monks are still "recharging" (and still gripe about not being healed/rezzed). Remember Leeroy Jenkins?

I'm not saying you're like that fella, Adreus. I'm just saying teamwork is an important part of the experience - even if it means sitting through one cutscene just to wait for the "newbie." I mean, if it's a problem then don't party with "newbies." It's not unusual to ask people if they've done the mission before.

If its really that important to you to have the cinematics skipped... then organize a group that agrees to skip them. State at the start, "we're skipping all movies, dont join if you're going to make us watch."

If you decide to join a random group for a mission, then just like you may have to deal with that uber noob warrior aggroing everything - well you may have to deal with someone that likes watching cinematics.

I agree with bobrath. If the cutscenes really bother you that much, make sure everyone in your group agrees to skip them before starting the mission.

Making it not be a consensus model would be a bad idea. If someday, perhaps after another 25 tries, I beat Thunderhead Keep, I wouldn't want Ill N O O B Ill and his 6 clanmates to prevent me from watching the cutscene.

The majority may not care what's happening to the storyline, but I do - and I paid for those cutscenes.

This thread is stupid. Just because someone is new to the game and wants to watch the cutscenes, you want to penalize them?

If you don't want to watch the cutscenes, then play with henches, or people you know have done the missions already. Stop whining.

A lot of people are playing the game for the story. Forcing someone to miss the cutscene is forcing them to miss a good part of the story.

Sure - it sucks to see the same cutscene you've seen a dozen times because 1 person hasn't seen it. But you can wait for 2 damn minutes. You're not losing anything - but if you force them to miss it - the are losing something...

you must have gotten an A+ in your self esteam grade.

total hypocrite to say you can ruin the other players game experience just because he wants to see a part of the game you deem unnecessary

you infringe on other peoples gaming experience with no thought of others at all

Reason why it is the way it is is so everyone starts out at the same time so you either all miss it and do whats next or you all watch it and do whats next, if not others would leave maybe 1 person who does want to watch it behind

Most cutscenes take less than 1 minute except the one at the end of the mission which can take up to 3 minutes. They should allow the last one to be skipped by individuals and they would instantly be transported to the next town where they can salvage/sell/shop/talk etc and the rest of the people didn't skip should be grayed out like they are loading. The 30 second scene in the middle really shouldn't bother you that much if you have any patience at all.

Nice suggestion, that sounds reasonable to me. I don't see a problem with people skipping just the last cutscene of each mission individually.

i keep up a lot of enchants through some pve missions, since it helps out the team a lot. its easy for me to do, and basically, when there are no necro or mesmer mobs with the right (or for me: wrong) skills, then i can have a VEEEEEERY relaxed playing experience. i stand back, watch the fight, and give everyone an easy time by reducing damage. i can have a good view of the fight, which is fun, and i can watch for mistakes, possibilities to improve and for targets of opportunity
i sure hope they dont plan to put more enchant breaking mobs in the game....

k, why is this on topic?
BECAUSE those *#!$§ (cry of frustration) cutscenes (which i basically like)
drain my mana, people. AND THIS GETS ME MAD.

when i dont skip, my mana is gone. when i skip, no time expired, and my mana is still there.
stupid....

so: either calculate energy over the time of the cutscene and apply it, even if skipped or just

freeze health and energy during the cutscenes....

that way a party wont die from mobs attacking in the video
and my energy wont die from my toon being too stupid to do what he is supposed to, even during cutscenes. clicking that energy signet, that is.

More than you could possibly imagine.

The "hot air" is apparently coming from the responders rather than from me. Stay on topic. The current "Skip" function is clearly a violation of the principles of user interaction (usability), and therefore, a product of poor design.

...and you must have received an F- for your spelling grade. Honestly now, do you want to discuss the issue of skipping cinematics? Or me? I'm irrelevant in this topic. Discuss the topic, not me.

When players are provided the choice of watching the cinematics or not, the players do not miss out. The players who choose to continue with the game benefit because their choice to continue positively affects their experience. The players who choose to watch the cinematic benefit because their choice to watch the cinematic positively affects their experience. Would your argument hold up when applied to NPC quest dialogue? Hardly. Unlike cinematics, players are not forced to read dialogue with the rest of the party.

As I wrote previously, setting party "rules" and/or even politely requesting that cinematics be skipped rarely works because there's usually that one player who purposely doesn't skip the cinematic to be a jerk. Party "rules" cannot be enforced and, thus, do not ensure compliance. To use your "use henchmen" cop-out in a similar manner to, hey, if you want to watch a cinematic, watch it on your own time!

In addition to the above response to bobrath, I ask you to show me a consensus model that has worked in practice. Remember: "consensus" is defined as agreement in the judgment or opinion reached by a group as a whole, which means that "consensus" requires totality (allness), not majority.

Penalty? What penalty? Both newbie and veteran players would be provided with options which they choose to improve their experience instead of both parties being forced to view cinematics regardless of their desire to do so. Are players penalized for choosing to read quest dialogue while the rest of the party ignores the dialogue continues with the game? No.

Life exists outside Guild Wars. For those of us that work for a living, there are limits on available time for playing video games. The time wasted on a formerly viewed cinematic is time wasted from the amount of time available to play video games. Moreover, players should not be forced into experiences contrary to the purpose of entertainment. The experiences of players who don't find re-runs entertaining suffer due to a deficiency of functionality.

I never suggested ruining the experiences of other players. In fact, my suggestion does not infringe on the experiences of either party.

Sounds good.

To the OP - Ah come on, you're acting as if this is tantamount to getting teeth pulled

There are actually people out there who haven't seen the story yet and would like to, you can't really fault 'em on that. And here's a suggestion: get up, walked around, grab a drink, take a piss, stretch, and relaaax during the cutscenes. Not trying to tell you what to do, just something I do so frustration doesn't accumulate. And anyone who knows me can tell you a pissed wasp has more patience than I do.

Yeah, all your suggestions are viable but sound like tedious or a lot programming/changes would have to be done while Anet has better things to tend to at the moment, I think.

I think being able to chat during cutscenes doesn't sound difficult to do and would be a great, not make it as tedious for people

And to all you "thanks for NOT SKIPPING" gripers... :P

Just curious why do you tell others how to spell when you are using a word clearly unrelated to the topic being discussed? Click the hyperlink for the definition of cinematics. The word you wanted is cinemas. At least Lovatar used a word that was only 1 letter off. Yours was entirely off topic.

In the video game industry, "cinematic" (n.) refers either to a real-time (or scripted) animation of in-game visual assets, or to a pre-rendered Full-Motion Video (FMV) sequence. Both types of cutscenes, or cinematics, are noninteractive. [1] [2] [3] [4]

The term is correctly and appropriately used. Now, stay on topic, please.

One could say the same thing about any and all suggestions. There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion about what you like and dislike about a game, and how you think the game can be improved. Leave the programming feasibility analyses to the game programmers. Let's just come up with ideas without worrying what the almighty developers will think.

I personally think Anet screwed up here. This is how it SHOULD have been done:

1. Cutscenes at END or BEGINNING of missions, not mid-mission-straight-out-of-combat. (Ideally BEGIN/END = when you arrive at outpost/city where it will not affect your team )


2. Cutscenes should be available to view OUTSIDE of missions once you unlocked them. [i can absolutely not believe this concept did not cross their minds...]

3. Cutscenes should NOT affect your characters while you have no control over them [if i had a gold coin for everytime someone in the party was dead after a cutscene...]

4. Cutscenes should not disable your chat console, this is the ideal time, no make that PERFECT time, to plan ahead [worst case, you chat with your guild about how much your team sucks].

The vote-sytem is very flawed. The team might not yell at me and be considerate, the fact remains, majority of the team wanted to do something else..

Think about it, WHY is such a message displayed in the first place??? Surely if you've seen it before you are going to skip, if you haven't then you are going to view it. So someone, amuse me, why is there a line on top telling me whether other people wants to watch the scene or not... It is plain and simple : To inform YOU whether it's appropriate to watch the scene or not, no other reason.

I mean WTF does it tell you when it says "7 out of 8 people wants to skip this cinematic" . Use the words "TEAM WORK" and "MAJORITY RULE" in your answer. Surely this is detrimental to all new players combined with experienced players....

@Silvertemplar

1. I don't agree. For a PVE experience it adds a lot of depth to the way you go through the missions.

2. Agree. Mostly because it also solves another problem i get to later

3. Agree. However if you character is attacked during the cinematic you will see / hear it happen. This forces you to skip if you want to live though

4. I don't find it that limiting. Most off the time you will have ample time to discuss thinga inside missions. There is only a few occasions where time taken to do the mission matters. I play a lot with henchman and have dinner inside missions and quests ;-)

To your last point ... majority rules? I DO NOT AGREE
I just got the game and on my first time through the game i WANT to see the cinematics. However if point 2 would be implemented i could watch them later and go with the group.

Shaquira Lowlands

RE: silvertemplar

Thanks for mentioning the unlocking and replay of cinematics issue. If cinematics needed to be unlocked in order to be replayed, that would add another element to the game specifically targeting those entertained by the development Guild Wars story. Some cinematics could be hidden throughout the game and only play under certain conditions. This would give the storyrunners something to do after completing the game beyond Ascension. In addition, this could also serve as a method of transforming the static and rather dry fable into a dynamic environment in which players may develop their characters; that is, with new cinematics implemented into the game every now and then.

In-mission "experience" can very easily be limited to "real-time" dialogues. The scenes are basically zooming into the engine [if it was blizzard style cinematics then i wouldn't actually complain so much about this]. So what i'm saying is, do the "sit back and watch" stuff begin/end of missions, do the "NPC tells you what to do" in-game with me being able to walk around. Example: Elona Reach, no reason to cut-out into a cutscene when you bring the ghost the first crytal, the same could've been achieved merely by having the ghost stand there and tell his tale, i'm sure voice-dialogue don't have to be restricted to cutscenes only?

Actually, alot of people either do not see or hear or do not think it actually kills the party and do not end up skipping the cutscene [nevermind the plot hole developing due to having to skip it]. In fact, i know alot of people [including myself] use cutscenes to run off the bathroom/get food/whatever and will not see it happening always.

Well, it's just something that will be convenient, obviously if they can resolve cutscenes as mentioned in my previous point, you won't need this as you can view cutscenes at your own leisure.

No, i did not suggest that movie gets skipped if the majority of the team wants to skip it, no [that would be an even worse route to go]. It's just they put in a vote system on something that really are not something you can possibly "vote" on.

Personally? I feel obligated to move on if 7/8 of the team wants to skip, even if i haven't seen the movie....so indirectly i feel pressured based on the "vote" being displayed...not exactly what i want in a cutscene.

In other words they don't have to put that line on top, could've left it at the skip button only. If all skip, movie ends, no reason to see how many actually wants to skip, is that sentence suppose to change my mind about watching the movie?

You are either a first-timer or not, there's nothing to vote about, unless you generally believe the scenes suck and have no interest in them.

Oh and the reason you are quickly Dying, is cause you go and run to the guy to get to the cut scene instead of PLAYING the game and fighting to clear the area before starting it. Only a MORON would expect to run into a huge crowd to rush the cut-scene and expect to be safe for the plot. Try actually PLAYING the game instead of running everywhere... thats not playing, thats running like a chicken with its head cut off, and using everyone else as meat shields.

I personaly think that they should implement a chat function to the Cut-Scenes. Dont get me wrong though, I really enjoy the cutscenes... alot of time went into them so the plot would thicken.

Actually yes, i'm kinda surprised they didn't make more use of it. I'm playing Chronicles of Riddick on the side, and guess what, you not only unlock Video Clips, but Game Art,Background Stories and various other fuzzy stuff you can later look at outside the game. Heck with such a system they can even unlock the actual background script/text of the plot for those of us that didn't buy the box and just the online key [which do not come with a nice manual you can read in bed]


Sadly, this is also being exploited. They don't call that Ironmines mission the "infusion run" for nothing. Your entire team runs, only 1 have to reach the cutscene and bam entire team all nicely standing in a row all rezzed ready to complete the mission [and you basically saved your entire parrty an hour of endless fighting]. [sarcasm] Maybe they'll fix it when we abuse it....[/sarcasm]

Er, not necessarily. The cinematics are not prerendered Full-Motion Video, like Toy Story or the Final Fantasy 7 FMV sequences. The Guild Wars cutscenes use in-game resources coupled with a UI and Camera lock in order to inexpensively fake, or attempt to fake, the user into a movie-like experience. The dialogue and animation is scripted to execute when certain events transpire. The only time-consuming component of the Guild Wars cinematics would probably be the voiceovers, which required developing a screenplay from the dialogue bible and the actors' time. Other than the voiceovers, the type of cinematic used in Guild Wars can be easily and quickly duplicated by an amateur 3D game programmer as, for example, a solution to a lack of funding for FMV.

Cute attempt at a flame, but your self-importance doesn't impress me.

Yes, some of us work for a living. Some of us also, in addition to working full-time also go to school full time. Some of us, in addition to working and going to school full time are also raising a family. Soem of us, in addition to working and going to school full-time and raising a family are also involved in an active physical ffitness program that has us at the gym for a few hours per night 3 or more nights per week. Don't talk to me about limited time to play.

Your self-importance doesn't impress me. You are no more important than any other player in the game - they paid for it, just like you did. If they want to watch the cutscenes, that's their right, and you have no say in hindering them from getting their full money's owrth out of the game.

What's 2 minutes? 2 minutes is nothing at all.

Not necessarily, it seems like you're just overcomplicating things by making a specialized place for people go to, setting up a boundary so you can't run too far...

Ok, after getting by this self-importance-screw-everyone-else attitude you have going here.. It does seem like you're penalizing someone who wanted to watch the cutscenes by not being able to get xp/items/etc from drops if say they were still watching the cutscene.

Basically it shouldn't be a choice between items/xp and watching the cutscenes.

Besides that, it's ridiculous to run off without one of your team members. It really turns it to a "every man for himself" situation and that doesn't usually work, and newbies would be peer-pressured into skipping, thus not getting the storyline (assuming they cared in the first place).

Plus I can see situations cropping where a true newbie does skip, and finds him/herself back in the map, runs off to kill/die unnecessarily.. not good at all.

I suppose you could argue well WHAT ABOUT ME WAH I DUN WANNA WATCH IT - so don't. If it reeeally bothers you that much, don't go with a pug, go with friends or guildies and have an understanding that, we've all seen this, so we can all skip it going.

Now, being able to chat during cutscnes (make use of those black bars), even maybe open up your inventory to sift through your items thusfar is a little more balanced

As for the odd jerk that never skips....well there are just people like that.