Petition to quit nerfing the hell out of us.

Deyo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2005

/signed

Its a sad day when my first post is petition... But, it comes to this:
-Played about 2 weeks
-L18 Mo/Me about to reach Henge. Did every single quest i could find (and when i go out i usually clear most of a map). Came to allmost every location on foot before doing missions.

Net result:
2K gold, bunch of common building materials and Elementalist staff (cos i couldnt find anything even remotelly better and that was my only purple weapon)
Found: 7 runes (all minor), 5 weapon upgrades (all crappy), 6 dyes
Had to do farming runs for collectors items for 2 days cos i couldnt afford to craft armor.

For a bit of background, i dont like PvP in any form and stay away from it. I bought this game for PvE part and some light hearted break from grind of true MMORPGs. Now, if i have to grind as same as i do in other games to be able to color/customise my stuff or to buy a usefull weapon, ill rather go back where that grind can yield a thing that can really make a difference.

D.

Accolon Pendragon

Accolon Pendragon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/R

/signed

Because I thought that the game would be about having fun and not getting frustrated all the time.

Thanas

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by PieXags
Here's a question, why should we have to leave the game if we want to farm? Is that for you to decide? Can we not ask for changes like PvP players did? Are you some undercover Anet employee that is here to tell us there's no chance that anything will ever be fixed and that we HAVE to move on because for some reason, other people are allowed to ask for changes when they've nothing more to do in the game, but we aren't?

Doesn't make sense to me.
Firstly I didn't tell you to leave. I left that up to you. Secondly you can ask for changes. I never said you couldn't. However you should understand GW will never support excessive farming since this is contrary to the game concept. You should note however that Anet will in time implement some way to support farmers, but this will be for those who farm in moderation. This a long term objective. There are many things which need to be considered in this game. Farming is one of these things. It needs to be worked into the game concept so that it doesn't interfere with other players enjoyment and unbalance the game. But you must be patient. After all GW does not get continual funding through monthly fees! IMHO I don't think they should include farming at all, since is draws people from the core essence of the game. But this is my opinion.

The main point I have being trying to make is that there are an awful lot of games out there whose core game plan promotes farming and Guild wars is not one of them. It may accomodate it in time on some level but it will never be a full blown farming game. And no I have nothing to do with Anet, I just spend time reading Anet interviews and releases so I am well informed.

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

Quote:
Originally Posted by poinerva
OMG!!! You just described farming.
Clever, but if you wanted to play like that I can play that way as well. PvP players get faction for every single skill, weapon upgrade, and rune from every kill/win. It's GUARANTEED that they get the rewards they need for the higher end stuff. Whereas those who try to "farm" in PvE, aren't guaranteed a damn thing anymore, and it's often a waste of their time.


And to Thanas, you're wrong about one thing. It isn't contrary to the games "design" at all. If it was they wouldn't have put the Fissure Armor in the game, they wouldn't have put in the 15k armor either. Someone already said this. These things REQUIRE you to farm, most excessively, to aquire them. And they wouldn't be there if people weren't supposed to try and get them, they wouldn't be there if we weren't supposed to be able to get them. And right now, I couldn't get the fissure armor in many straight MONTHS of farming with what we have, the costs are now close to 2 million I'd say from the price of ectos and obsidian shards.

Thomasuwoo

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Australia

Savior Of Souls

W/E

I've been watching the communtiy trade wise quite a bit latley. Prices are falling however the traders are still buying things at obseenly low prices and selling for higher prices too. Eitehr Anet is trying to encouage Player to player trading or is simulating "A great depression." Maybe a bit of both. The point I belive is that I belive Anet realised that the gold floating around in the community was not dissapereing on armour like they'd hoped. Therefore they've deliberatle hit us hard on the gold terms. I belive that the current nerf is probably only temporary to strangle all that gold out of the community, reval any farming spots they may have missed, and then they'll make the merchants buy at more resonable prices.
That said this still isn't a problem for me. I went PvEing with someone from tombs last night to help them cap a few skills. We did thunderheap keep and Iron mines of meladru. 2 hours later i was 4k richer. I wasn't even farming and I got this kind of money.
Note I also had 1 gold drop and 3 other players also got some. My gold drop was a major rune of beast mastery in a garment of some sort. I didn't salvage the rune and the nice merchant bought it off me for 308 gold. Probably alot more then any player would have paid for the actual rune.
I also got a max armour Stone summit warlord sheild. Is it just me or are thoese sheilds cool looking?

Thanas

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by PieXags
And to Thanas, you're wrong about one thing. It isn't contrary to the games "design" at all. If it was they wouldn't have put the Fissure Armor in the game, they wouldn't have put in the 15k armor either. Someone already said this. These things REQUIRE you to farm, most excessively, to aquire them. And they wouldn't be there if people weren't supposed to try and get them, they wouldn't be there if we weren't supposed to be able to get them. And right now, I couldn't get the fissure armor in many straight MONTHS of farming with what we have, the costs are now close to 2 million I'd say from the price of ectos and obsidian shards.
I've taken this out of another post I made. Please read. It goes some way to justify the comments I've made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANet interview
Gamecloud - Now that the game has been in full operations for almost two months, what have been the most surprising things about the game and how players have been operating in it?

ArenaNet - We have been very surprised by the speed at which new strategies rise and fall in PvP play. A collection of players and their professions and skills is often called a “build,” and most of our fansites have extensive build databases that record the success or failure of these builds. You will often see the term “FotM” in fan forums, which is short for “Flavor of the Month.” This refers to a build that is current “in” with the player community. However, the running joke is that it should be really be called “FotW” or even “FotD,” as counter-builds tend to emerge very rapidly. We are both surprised and pleased by this, because it means that we have achieved two of our primary objectives with skill design: deep, emergent strategic depth, and solid long-term play balance.
As you can see Anets primary objectives are skills. Wheres the mention of item farming and items being high on their list? Do they even feel excessive farming is a acceptable form of play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANet interview
This week, as part of our in continuing promise to keep Guild Wars free of hacks, cheats, and other exploits, we closed the accounts of more than 100 users of bots. With today's update we are taking further steps to address the bot problem. New changes will improve our ability to identify and ban users of bots, rebalance mission areas that were highly exploited by bots, and reduce the overall effectiveness of bots, exploits, and other highly repetitive forms of gold and item farming. We are taking these steps to improve the game for all players, so that people using bots to farm gold cannot generate a huge influx of new gold into the economy, which increases prices for everyone and encourages other players to engage in repetitive farming just to keep up.
Well its seems the answer is no. They don't believe excessive farming is acceptable. They have even illustrated the fact that excessive farming is an exploit! You should note that exploiting the game is going against the rules of conduct. You will find this in the EULA. Taking advantage of some exploits will get your account stopped! Bots for farming is such an offence.

Now Although excessive farming isnt accpetable. Farming to some small degree is. That is to say you play a couple of areas a few time over and you are OK. However Guild wars realise that some people wish to farm, but they do not surpport it as the main form of play. This statement gives some general feelings on farming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANet interview
However, it's fair to say that we do not actively encourage an excess of player farming. Some players insist that farming is the only possible way to achieve their objectives. I would say that farming may be a way, but it is not the only way. There will be future changes that will address our intention not to penalize farmer-type players, but instead to make playing through the game lucrative and rewarding so that farming is perceived as what it is meant to be, just one of many gameplay options.
I hate to say this but Anet are aware of the farming situation, so this petition is really quite pointless. It's spawned a good debate though. For that I thank you.

Thanas

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo
I've been watching the communtiy trade wise quite a bit latley. Prices are falling however the traders are still buying things at obseenly low prices and selling for higher prices too. Eitehr Anet is trying to encouage Player to player trading or is simulating "A great depression." Maybe a bit of both. The point I belive is that I belive Anet realised that the gold floating around in the community was not dissapereing on armour like they'd hoped. Therefore they've deliberatle hit us hard on the gold terms. I belive that the current nerf is probably only temporary to strangle all that gold out of the community, reval any farming spots they may have missed, and then they'll make the merchants buy at more resonable prices.
That said this still isn't a problem for me. I went PvEing with someone from tombs last night to help them cap a few skills. We did thunderheap keep and Iron mines of meladru. 2 hours later i was 4k richer. I wasn't even farming and I got this kind of money.
Note I also had 1 gold drop and 3 other players also got some. My gold drop was a major rune of beast mastery in a garment of some sort. I didn't salvage the rune and the nice merchant bought it off me for 308 gold. Probably alot more then any player would have paid for the actual rune.
I also got a max armour Stone summit warlord sheild. Is it just me or are thoese sheilds cool looking?

I've found I can make that much too. Especially if I'm salavaging items for materials.

Ba Ne

Ba Ne

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Michigan

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanas
As you can see Anets primary objectives are skills. Wheres the mention of item farming and items being high on their list? Do they even feel excessive farming is a acceptable form of play?
You've said this at least twice now. That statement does not say that Anet's primary objective is skills. All that statement says is that their primary objectives when it comes to skill design are strategic depth and play balance.

"We are both surprised and pleased by this, because it means that we have achieved two of our primary objectives with skill design: deep, emergent strategic depth, and solid long-term play balance."

You're putting words in their mouth and not reading what they're actually saying.

Gauge Ironfist

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

I feel that Anet believes that inorder to maintain a fun game for all people to play, they they need to limit the effectiveness of "over-exploited" farming. What I mean by this is that they really dont care if you farm items to make money, I do it to get the much needed gold, but to take a level such as the "drake runs" where at the time the drakes lightning attack was compairable worthless, and farm them many times(many meaning 10s of times or 100s of times people which bots and other forms of excessive farming could do) in order to gain a LOT of stuff with little effort was never there intent.

Im not saying the farming should be gotten rid of, but some areas that have a MUCH greater likelyhood of dropping items (you all know the runs im talking about) that are high in demand and you can bring in a TON of them is way out of proportion.

Which brings me to the point that they put a limit on your storage so that one person could never amount SO much money that they basically never would run out. I think they believed that 1,000,000g was a crap load that would not be gotten easily, but what we can see is that they "were" very wrong.

SOT

SOT

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

East Texas

Have any of you "signers" realized that calling a forum thread "petition to whatever" on an official fan-site is not gonna do it for ya?

LMAO.

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

Nothing's guaranteed to "do it for us" mate, I called it a petition because it encourages some people to simplify their responses to "/signed" many times, I'd rather see a lot of /signed posts than a lot of " I agree because of this..." followed by many pages of arguments, right now we've only got...a couple pages of arguments, instead of the entire thread.

Also, Thanas, your "quote" doesn't help counter my point at all, just because the economy and drop rate isn't the primary objective of the game does NOT mean that farming is in opposition to the objectives, not by ANY means. This is proven by the fact that they took the time to put the fissure/15k armors in the game for people to try and get. Sure designing those armors wasn't their PRIMARY objectives, but they put them in there for those who want to get them anyway...and getting there, requires you either to exploit the population by becoming a droknar rusher, or to farm.

quanzong

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere cold

The Followers of the Messiah

W/Me

You people that save up for fissure should just go COLLECT the ecto and shards, not save up for it. I bet you a lot that you will SAVE more TIME then.
I'm satisfied with my 15K armor, I dont need to look the best of the best.

Fissure armor is cheap 15K just requires expensive items that you can COLLECT, I get at least 1 ecto every UW run, and UW run is only 25 mins. Think of the time you save if you just collect everything yourself.

tuskenraid

tuskenraid

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

SoCal

/signed

I read through the first 9 pages, so I apologize if I repeat something. I am completely in favor of this. Most people forget that it's not just about the gold. For me that is actually a minor issue. The drop nerfing is what is really killing me. I have played through the entire game once and currently have 2 other PvE characters at various stages and 1 PvP character that I am waiting to utilize. I have received in grand total 1 purple drop 2 gold drops and about 5 runes, all minor and not for my any of my classes. This is exhausting. I would really like for my warrior to have a some superior runes when I get to higher levels, but I can't get them from drops, or according to Anet, "the way the game is supposed to be played". So what is my option. Go buy one. Oh, ok brilliant idea. A superior vigor is only 30K. Playing "normally" I'm lucky if I have about 10k by the time I reach Droknars. Then I get better armor, not 15K mind you, and if I had to pay for some materials, which I usually don't, I'm crap outta luck. So what do I do, I am forced to farm, an action that I really don't enjoy.

My PvP character I can't use. Why? because I have not unlocked the most important runes for him yet.... because they don't freaking drop. Sure I could go do arenas all day.. Sorry, I have a life. Faction points in small amounts if I have to get with a decent assinged group don't quickly add up to the 1000-3000 faction points required. It'll take me about a 7-8 months to unlock the items I want for my PvP character. This is supposed to be fun casual gaming? I don't think so.

Anet, please fix this. Gold sinks are great ideas, like the 15K armor and Fissure armor. But making the "fixes" balance out. Allow us to accumulate more gold quicker. If you're worried about the economy, fine, but for god sake allow useful item and rune drops. I love this game but I am quickly tiring of the effort needed for very marginal results.

Forboding Angel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by quanzong
You people that save up for fissure should just go COLLECT the ecto and shards, not save up for it. I bet you a lot that you will SAVE more TIME then.
I'm satisfied with my 15K armor, I dont need to look the best of the best.

Fissure armor is cheap 15K just requires expensive items that you can COLLECT, I get at least 1 ecto every UW run, and UW run is only 25 mins. Think of the time you save if you just collect everything yourself.
I spent 3 hours in UW the other day and I have yet to see what ecto looks like.

Anton H

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Corvallis.

The Company / LRS

W/

I've gone to the UW perhaps 30-40 times and never, ever had an Ecto drop.

However I get 5-15 shards per FoW venture. I wonder if that is someones sick joke.

At any rate, I've noticed prices falling... rapidly, and I believe its caused by Anets nerfing. Less farmers - less obscenely rich people - fewer people to buy things at stupid amounts of money. (with the exception of runners, but I have no problem with people using skill to make money, rather than just burning hours killing the same creature 100 times). Hell, even runners are making less (droks runs can be had for 3k now, rather than 5-10 as was a few months ago).

Now if they would make the in-game merchants something less than the worlds-worst rip off, the games economy might actually pick up a notch. Anet wonders why we dont sell things to the merchant at 1/4 the true value of the product. Gee. A slick interface won't make us rip ourselves off.

Hanok Odbrook

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by PieXags
Clever, but if you wanted to play like that I can play that way as well. PvP players get faction for every single skill, weapon upgrade, and rune from every kill/win. It's GUARANTEED that they get the rewards they need for the higher end stuff. Whereas those who try to "farm" in PvE, aren't guaranteed a damn thing anymore, and it's often a waste of their time.


And to Thanas, you're wrong about one thing. It isn't contrary to the games "design" at all. If it was they wouldn't have put the Fissure Armor in the game, they wouldn't have put in the 15k armor either. Someone already said this. These things REQUIRE you to farm, most excessively, to aquire them. And they wouldn't be there if people weren't supposed to try and get them, they wouldn't be there if we weren't supposed to be able to get them. And right now, I couldn't get the fissure armor in many straight MONTHS of farming with what we have, the costs are now close to 2 million I'd say from the price of ectos and obsidian shards.

That's one of my points, coming from the casual gaming perspective. What Anet is doing is completely illogical. First they design this game with players such as myself in mind - we don't have a lot of free time to dedicate to playing games extensively, and when we do, try to complete games in the manner of their design. Anet then nerfs things that go against that design, yet have items included in the game that cannot be gotten any other way except by doing things that they are trying to stop. They made this game so grinding and farming would not be necessary, yet it still remains so. Makes no sense to me at all!

If the Fissure armor is the reward for being a hard-core gamer, that's all well and good, but can it be gotten by doing each quest and mission only once through to the end of the game, or does one have to grind/farm in order to be able to procure this armor. As I stated in a previous message, I have completed this game in such a manner a few times and am not even close to being able to get Fissure armor, yet I am playing this game exactly as Anet desgined it to be played. I don't get it - maybe I missed something along the way, or misinterpreted Anet's intentions, but they seem to be saying one thing, then doing something completely opposite with GW.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

quanzong

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere cold

The Followers of the Messiah

W/Me

Yeah but if Anet went to its normal ways, wouldnt everyone that knows how to farm have FoW armor, because so many good drops. I like it how it is because its much harder to look the best now, and when people come up to me and see my 15K gladiator they give me comment, I'm sure people with FoW get serval comments, but if EVERYONE had them there wouldnt be anymore comments on a player, it will just be wow your not going to go with me in HoH you dont have FoW armor, or those people that dont know how to farm will get slams because there armor isnt with everyone elses.

Iceciro

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Surface Warfare and Tactics

E/N

/Signed

I felt immediate reprecussions because as soon as I started to farm the ettins near the Nebo Weaver, I got a message to restart for a patch. Lo, and that was the nerf stick. In that first run against Ettins, I probably killed 20, and got 10 or so runes, it was pretty nuts. Most of those runes i gave to my guild, one was a Sup Absorb and I put it right on then and there.

Then, I restarted. I havent seen an ettin drop a gold Pauldron since. Now, maybe my first run was excessive farming, because yeah, doing that over and over I might get halfway rich. But there is no reason I should kill 50 ettins and get two crap runes, when I'm doing it solo.

Another option might be to increase good drops for teams (not henchman.)

Talesin Darkbriar

Talesin Darkbriar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

California - irrigated desert...

The Myrmidon

E/N

Has anyone thought that perhaps the reason Anet has nearly impossible to acquire items in the game is for the 24/7 crowd of players?

Yes, Guild Wars is designed for CASUAL players.
But do only casual players play it?

Not at all, we have the atypical suspect list of powergamers, leetdoods, and ne'r do wells that are all driven to win-win-WIN!

The rare armors and items give these players something to attain and then gloat over - AND - I may add, without incurring any real combat penalty to the all the rest of us.

This is not a nerf, this is a stroke of genius.
Although the "driven" players will of course see it as heresy.

So be it.

Talesin

Hanok Odbrook

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by quanzong
Yeah but if Anet went to its normal ways, wouldnt everyone that knows how to farm have FoW armor, because so many good drops. I like it how it is because its much harder to look the best now, and when people come up to me and see my 15K gladiator they give me comment, I'm sure people with FoW get serval comments, but if EVERYONE had them there wouldnt be anymore comments on a player, it will just be wow your not going to go with me in HoH you dont have FoW armor, or those people that dont know how to farm will get slams because there armor isnt with everyone elses.
But farming isn't supposed to be part of playing GW - completing the quests and missions, and building a good skill set are. Therefore, using their reasoning in developing the game the way they did and their nerf of farming, shouldn't I then be able to get FoW armor simply by playing the game as intended, without the grind?

My point is that Anet's actions seem contradictory to their purposes. I wouldn't have a problem with FoW armor only being obtainable by farming or otherwise putting in a ton of time in this game - IF Anet didn't seem so hellbent on nerfing the ability to obtain it. To say that GW is balanced for all types of players, then nerf half of those players out of being able to get any item in the game is hypocritical.

GW has the ability to appeal to the three major player groups - casual, hard-core, and PvP, but they have since gone about it in the wrong way. Farming is an inherent part of the CRPG lifestyle, there's no getting past that. Not every person who plays PC games can dedicate their lives to that persuit, yet they should be able to get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of a game nonetheless. Some players want farming - well then, set up certain parts of the world, like the FoW, to be strictly farming areas with the end goal to be completing the armor set. The majority of players don't farm, so set up the bulk of the world to allow them to play the game as intended and by doing so, acquire every item created in the game, with the exception of the farming area specific items. Add a few other tweaks to maintain the balance of the game, and to eliminate the "farming for profit" group, and the problem is solved.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

B3H

B3H

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Mid-West

Cheer Up Emo Kid [EMO]

W/R

I honestly havent ran into any nerfing. Sometimes you get nice drops sometimes you dont. I just came back from a farming run with a friend and myself and we picked up a total of 4 purple items and 3 gold items..

panfist

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

Order of the Black Lotus

Mo/E

I know I said I was done with this thread, but I really can't resist, I apologize in advance...

I distinctly remember reading in an interview or preview or whatever, perhaps some of you can help me find the citation (or perhaps not since you're all crying nerf), somebody from ANet commenting on the loot system. He said something to the effect of: casual players will be able to get items that are very effective, and I think in his exact words, "but when something outstanding drops, it really will be really rare." It really will be really rare.

Oh, I found it:

http://www.guild-hall.net/ff9.php

quote--"Rare" really means rare in Guild Wars! You won't have an inventory filled with items with yellow text, and when such an item drops and you see that it's assigned to you, your heart does a little happy dance.

So finding 10 runes including a superior absorption on your first run is not what GW intended. Anet is clearly bringing the game back into line with their original vision. I've done a little happy dance a few times when a few yellow items have dropped for me, but I certainly don't consider myself a good happy-dancer...I haven't had much practice. And that's fine with me.

Krank

Krank

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

W/

/sign

I have been playing ALOT, and having droks armour as my highest joy, since it cost me nearly everything, isnt holding its splendor when i see lvl 4's walking around full plated. Now playing as much as i do (8+hours a day), The most money ive had total, was a little over 8k, How does this balance out, i have had one single gold drop, (in 200+ hours of play), And getting a purple is like finding jesus.
Unlucky no? Yes.
I would really like something fixed at least in the monsters drop rate. A little change for the good would make me one hell of a happy gamer.

/rant

ALvin[ButteR]

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Phalanx Fire

W/Mo

/signed

I've been getting C--- the last couple times I've been doing runs

Hanok Odbrook

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

From that same interview link in panfist's post above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anet
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is "stuff!" I don't know about you, but part of my gamer personality profile includes the word "collector." For us collector types, what will keep us coming back to Guild Wars after we're maxed on levels is the hunt for the unique items or for that bow with just one more point in damage or the unusual rune for an armor upgrade.

So speaking about what would draw you to play post-Ascension there are several things, including: The acquisition of items, ....
Sorry for shouting, but THIS IS FARMING!!!! If item hunting is supposed to be part of the draw of coming back to the game and playing over and over again, then WTH have they nerfed the very reason for replaying this game? This is the exact kind of hypocricy Anet has been showing and I have been talking about. Notice that "acquisition of item" was first on their list of things to do after Ascension.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Da Cebuano

Da Cebuano

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Virginia born in Cebu

Jelly Toast[jT]

W/

If this goes through, I will sign it till the sun dont shine!!!

/sign squared to the 500th power

quanzong

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere cold

The Followers of the Messiah

W/Me

Getting 10 runes in 1st run is wrong, it should take you several runs to get A rune. I'm glad ANET made unique drop harder to get, because its not hard for me I just do missions and everytime I do mission I get 1 or more purple or gold items, the only thing I dont like about ANET is, WHY you have purple item with no stats or anything on it?

Hanok Odbrook

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by quanzong
Getting 10 runes in 1st run is wrong, it should take you several runs to get A rune. I'm glad ANET made unique drop harder to get, because its not hard for me I just do missions and everytime I do mission I get 1 or more purple or gold items, the only thing I dont like about ANET is, WHY you have purple item with no stats or anything on it?
I agree with you. I'm just trying to make the point that if they designed this game to include casual players, then the reward system should reflect that fact. Casual players paid the same amount for this game as everyone else - why should they be punished because they can't dedicate as much time as the hard-core group can?

Aside from that fact is the nerfs cut back on drops and item value the more you run an area - again going against the very replayablility of the game. If I run a mission 10 times, I should be accumulating more items with a better chance of getting higher value drops - not the opposite, which the nerfs have been doing. This seems to be an account wide issue, not just a character issue as I have run several different new low level characters through the areas right around Old Ascalon as an experiement and have been getting less and less each time - and this over the course of a couple of weeks, not one run right after another.

I'm from the old school CRPG's dungeon crawlers where you had to run through the game hundreds of times before you finally got every item. I'm not against that, but it seems Anet can't make up their minds one way or the other, as the quote from my previous post points out. In order to get the rare, high level items, a player must explore GW and run through quests and mission many times, which is what farming is all about. They state outright that item hunting is a huge part of the replayablility of this game, requiring what I just stated. Anet then nerfs the ability to do so.

In my mind that means they only want you to complete this game once, play PvP, buy the expansion pack, then rinse and repeat. That means I should be able to get every item by playing as they desire me to play. If they are going to eliminate my ability to continually re-explore an area to try to get those items they say I should, what I am supposed to do? Does this make sense to anyone, or am I way off base here?

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Igigi

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2005

Arizona

Archangel

N/Me

/signed

i actually havent been doing anything but running the regular missions and leveling but i agree later on im sure i will need to farm at some point and making it stupid hard to do will only hurt the game

Grunge

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2005

Me/Mo

/signed

I've been having a real trouble making any sort of money. I got a Major Rune of Vigor once, and that gave me about 6K, I kept it steady at about 6K, but now, I'm losing about 500 Gold each time I play (buying Salvage/ID kits). I can't even begin to make up for my loses, because all the traders are selling at high prices, and buying at low. I sold 10 Bolts of Cloth for 30 Gold, and then went to check the price to buy them. It was at least 200 Gold. I'm sorry Anet, but nerfing ALL the drops has killed the economy.

panfist

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

Order of the Black Lotus

Mo/E

You know, no one is forcing you to play this game. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you're obligated to stick with it.

I really hate to paint this bleak picture...but you already gave ANet your money, they probably wouldn't mind 1 bit if you left and eased the load on their servers. Not that they're trying to get you to leave, or anything like that, but they're catering to a bigger picture, and if that means that you won't be able to get your fissure armor or a 5/1 vampiric string, too bad.

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

Their "bigger" picture isn't affected at all by giving a reasonable amount of drops back, you realize.

And you're right, we're not being forced to play the game. But some of us enjoy it, and as part of the community, if we'd like something changed or have a suggestion it's our job to bring it to the attention of the devs if possible. So...yeah, that's what we're doing.

Nobody's forcing us to leave, kinda like nobody's forcing you to click on this thread.

Flame

Flame

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

I was never big on farming. My original stance was that ArenaNet doesn't want people to farm, so they should make it as hard as possible. But they did more than that. I don't farm past Underworld or Fissure, which I only rarely do now, because there is no point. In a few weeks of going to the Underworld with trapping parties, I have found one 14-26 Storm Bow and some Glittering Dust. I want to find something, anything, that makes me say "Alright!" I'm stuck doing something I hate to make money; Running people. It's the only way to make decent money, and it's not even that much unless you can run to Droknar's Forge with full parties all the time.

Hanok Odbrook

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by panfist
You know, no one is forcing you to play this game. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you're obligated to stick with it.

I really hate to paint this bleak picture...but you already gave ANet your money, they probably wouldn't mind 1 bit if you left and eased the load on their servers. Not that they're trying to get you to leave, or anything like that, but they're catering to a bigger picture, and if that means that you won't be able to get your fissure armor or a 5/1 vampiric string, too bad.
If we leave, then who's going to buy the expansion packs? If Anet didn't have any concerns about getting our money, they wouldn't have bothered with any patches or updates at all. Getting us to buy the expansion packs is the only way they will continue to stay in business. Keeping us interested in playing the game is the only way to get us to buy the expansion packs. THAT is the the bigger picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame
I was never big on farming. My original stance was that ArenaNet doesn't want people to farm, so they should make it as hard as possible.
I'm not a big farmer either, but if Anet doesn't want people to farm, why do they make item hunting a primary reason for replayability? Not everyone is interested in PvPing. I happen to like it, but there are many PvEers out there who don't. Where's the replayability factor for them if they can't hunt for those rare items? If any RPG is developed where all items created cannot be made readily available to all players other than through P2P trades, then the developers must realize that farming will be a necessary part of the game, and must incorporate that into their design, not nerf it.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Miss Innocent

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

I wander.

Mo/R

I'm just frustrated because I have no gold and can't find any way to get any decently. I never did any farming because I focused on PvP, but once I started seeing some of the cool armor I wanted some too... but I can't get any gold for it.

I still can't afford a Rune of Super Vigor; I might just have to make a PvP character and relegate all my PvE characters to just PvE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panfist
You know, no one is forcing you to play this game. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you're obligated to stick with it.

I really hate to paint this bleak picture...but you already gave ANet your money, they probably wouldn't mind 1 bit if you left and eased the load on their servers. Not that they're trying to get you to leave, or anything like that, but they're catering to a bigger picture, and if that means that you won't be able to get your fissure armor or a 5/1 vampiric string, too bad.
The financial plan for supporting the servers requires that players be willing to buy expansions every 6 months to a year. Our continued support and word-of-mouth advertising is essential.

Besides, what kind of person doesn't care about the quality of their product? We could just up and leave with no reason, but that's absolutely not what the developers want.

Jigs

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Mission Viejo, Ca, USA

kNiGhTmArE LEGion

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara
thats kinda the point of fissure armor, it takes forever to get.. thats what makes it fissure armor
so you are saying that the game is time based game?, " it takes forever to get.. thats what makes it fissure armor." player needs lots of globs of ecto that is being dropped by enemies killed like 1 is to 50 chance and millions of gold( most of the times you will buy ecto @ 10k). with the nerfing, to get hundreds of globs of ecto and millions of gold it'll take like forever to get fissure armor.

I know this is not really part of this thread:
ppl wants to have fissure armor and its getting harder and harder to get it. I think it would be cool if one could acquire the fissure armor by beating a certain enemy or mission just like in ascending, to ascend, kill your doppelganger. Now this is really skill based and not time based.

ramble, rambling.............whatever

Thanas

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ba Ne
You've said this at least twice now. That statement does not say that Anet's primary objective is skills. All that statement says is that their primary objectives when it comes to skill design are strategic depth and play balance.

"We are both surprised and pleased by this, because it means that we have achieved two of our primary objectives with skill design: deep, emergent strategic depth, and solid long-term play balance."

You're putting words in their mouth and not reading what they're actually saying.
Their primary objectives are strategic depth and play balance. From their statement, you see that the skill system embodies these objectives. It has added strategic depth and play balance. That is to say these objectives seem to have given rise to the skill system approach. Therefore IMHO, to not ignore the skill system, when making changes to gameplay is very dangerous, since this may lead to a breakdown of the original objectives. This to me infers that ensuring the well being of the skill system is a primary approach. Therefore one may say the skill system is now core to the game and probably has been for a fair while. I will retract the above statements if you can find a comment which says the following:

"We are both surprised and pleased by this, because it means that we have achieved two of our primary objectives with farming: deep, emergent strategic depth, and solid long-term play balance."

Thanas

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by PieXags
Nothing's guaranteed to "do it for us" mate, I called it a petition because it encourages some people to simplify their responses to "/signed" many times, I'd rather see a lot of /signed posts than a lot of " I agree because of this..." followed by many pages of arguments, right now we've only got...a couple pages of arguments, instead of the entire thread.

Also, Thanas, your "quote" doesn't help counter my point at all, just because the economy and drop rate isn't the primary objective of the game does NOT mean that farming is in opposition to the objectives, not by ANY means. This is proven by the fact that they took the time to put the fissure/15k armors in the game for people to try and get. Sure designing those armors wasn't their PRIMARY objectives, but they put them in there for those who want to get them anyway...and getting there, requires you either to exploit the population by becoming a droknar rusher, or to farm.
I was pointing out to you that excessive farming is not tolerated and that the farming issue (note I did not say excessive farming) will be resolved in time. Nothing more! With regards to the above comments I completely disagree. It is those who are impatient for 15K armour who must farm excessively. This does not mean that such armour in any way promotes excessive farming. I don't farm but I am looking to save for it. So no you are wrong. And also why is it, do you think, that ecto and obsidian prices have soared. Excessive farming perhaps.

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

If excessive farming is practically useless (like it is now) than the reason they've soared is problably droknar runners or other sorts who're actually managing to make decent money, I try to farm my heart out and I can't even buy one ecto after a couple days of constant farming. And you say it's farmers raising the prices?

Also, since you're not the one making the decisions I'll ask that you quit acting like you're the final word in saying things like "excessive farming is not tolerated", as you're not the one making those decisions, are you? That's for the devs to decide and it's for those people that this thread was created. And obviously, since constant farming is about the only hope aside from running people from town to town for cash, to make money, I'd have to say that the 15k/fissure armor does, in fact, promote farming. Indirectly, maybe, but since they've decreased drops, I can hardly make a living for my new characters. This is obviously, reducing drop rates is in direct opposition to the whole "for the casual gamer" feeling this game is supposed to give off. Hell on my latest character I had to go do some farming just to be able to afford the droknar armor when I got there, I didn't even have half the money by the time I got there, not including prices for materials. Thankfully my guild was able to help me out material wise, or I'd still problably be trying to get the last few thousand gold.

There's a problem, as is evident by the number of people in this thread alone who've posted their thoughts.

Fr3sH

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Doers of Evil

Mo/Me

/signed