Petition to quit nerfing the hell out of us.

I really hate the fact that action gamers have tried to redefine the word "skill" to mean "hand-eye coordination, reflexes, and control speed". If that's what skill means, then I want little part of it in a RPG style game. Your tactical abilities are every bit as much about "skill" as your ability to micromanage clicks, which actually takes little thinking at all and is merely a matter of being young, training your muscle memory, and having hours a day to practice.

I think its good that they dont allow so much things to drop at once, because then money is worthless and game is not fun. Thing I hate is, when a stupid mob I kill doesnt drop ANYTHING. I WANT YOUR FRICKING HEART, oops I meant Fridged Heart. Excuse me.

However I see 9 gold items drop everytime I do mission where you defend King Jalishammer.
Also I make 4.5+K an hour, 3 items per chest = 150 gold = 2mins. I think they made it so that the more party MEMBERS you have the better +chance you have getting magical item (DIABLO2).
If you think its hard to make money on this game, go try EQ, your not making good money until you've played at least 3 months or 800+ hours.

RPGS dont require skill, just memory.
Skill games = 1st person shooter
you control movement and everything, its not chance,ex. I hit you 12 you hit me 13, you win.


EDIT: Sorry sorry but I read lil more at end, funny how this thread changed but I recomend IDSOFTWARE games for skills. Quake1, heehee

Apparently you didn't get what I meant.

If the developers wanted this game to be truly skill based, not item/gold based, then why would they make some things harder to get? They would just give everyone the perfect sword, the perfect armor to balance everything out. One little rare mod can make all the difference.

There is little skill to RPG, it just requires some thinking ahead of time and strategizing. Once you get the perfect strategy and the perfect armor/weapon, you basically win half the battle, the other half is who your opponent is.

While in FPS games, it's different. You have to be alert all the time, have fast reaction time and have to be able to have accuracy. If you have the perfect skill in a FPS game, then most people won't be able to defeat you. While in RPG games, any noob who thought up of a build on accident can defeat you.

Umm...I don't see what the problem is. I've had this game for 3 weeks and I haven't really consciously been farming, and I have 60p in my stash. I don't know if that seems like a small amount to you guys, but it's respectable to me. At this rate, in a few months I could purchase perfect weapons and upgrades for characters in every class, and maybe a suit or two of 15k armor. I've also unlocked about a third of runes and about half of the weapon upgrades (albeit lower-end stats). What else in the game do you want to farm for?

I don't know about you, but in my opinion there is plenty of skill involved in playing GW. I'm sure if you played a mirror match against players in a top ten guild, and you both knew the ins and outs of the build, they would own you for sure. In GW, the major skills involved aren't twitch and reflex, but communication, coordination, and tactics.

Heh i sorry i couldnt help but laugh at that statment, FPS needing skill, thats funny, RTS = skill...

anyways as for drops, how much do people expect Anet to boost them by, i mean i have no problem making money... i dont know how much you guys expect, but i think 1-2K a day is pretty good, how much do you guys expect?

By the way i hope people who sign this arnt just doing it so they can farm and get fow armor in 2 days.. thats just sad

Fissure Armor, which costs over 1 million gold (1000K).

Ahh, so you think the entire time you're farming you're not going to find a single ecto? You're going to have to buy all of it?

/signed

I haven't gotten to parts where I have to farm to buy lots of stuff...no 15K armor where I am, but I know I'll get there soon. A couple of my friends say that from all the nerfing the economy has been ruined.

I'm not really sure what farming was like before it was nerfed...People tell me of good times. I was looking forward to this "10K in one hour" because frankly, I enjoy the idea of being able to go out and make 10K in one hour. When I got a black dye, that jumpstarted me from the hundreds range to the 7K range, but my money is slowly going away...and with the things I see being sold (100K for a bow...) I can only imagine trying to farm, and ending up with 1/10th of what I need by the end of my playing time.

Yes, but you must tap 2 mountains in order to use this instant.

(btw, thats awesome )

**Editing to avoid double posting**

I dont play the game 24/7, I dont have 60k in my stash because I didnt go farming when it was still profitable to farm. Where in this world can you still make good money? I was in the frozen forest with henchies and got a few near max staffs and around 1k in gold, this is in 1 hour and fighting an a$$ load of baddies. (the attribute point quest).

If you wanna tell me an effective way to make cash in normal game play, let me know.

It seems that many people forgot why Anet developed GW the way it did. This game was meant to be playable by the casual, part-time gamer, and the focus on strategy, skills, and attribute builds (SSA) was the reason for this. Anet nerfs farming because the basic concept does not agree with the reason this game was created. However, farming is a part of RPG culture (whether it be an on-line game or not - heck this entire concept of grinding/farming starts with the CRPG's from the 80's), and for Anet to try to put the kabosh on a part of the culure of RPG gaming is unrealistic and unfair. I don't farm, but don't disagree with the practice unless it is farming for profit. I am totally against selling game items for real world cash. However, I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to try to get every item that the devs have programmed into the game, which necessitates farming.

I'm a casual player, and have played GW since the final beta event. I don't farm, not only because I don't have the time to do it, but have no desire to do it. I have completed the game a few times, and have noticed a dramatic decrease in the number and value of drops since the nerf. Getting back to my original statement above, this seems to go against the idea of this game being for the casual player. While using SSA is a large part of being competative in both PvE and PvP, having decent armor and weapon sets is as well.

As an experiement, I went to Ascalon Arena with a Level 10 W/R build similar to one that I have had success with as a PvP only character with the only difference of using the most basic armor and weapon sets. I generally got slaughtered each time I went because I had no melee capabities at all. While using my successful skill sets helped keep me alive while in ranged combat, I had no hope in close quarters - and this only in the first PvP arena a player encounters in the game, oftentimes against lower level characters. So while Borak Bloodbane's post may be true in essence, and SSA the primary focus of GW, there's no denying the fact that a good set of items also goes a long way into being competative in this game.

Besides that point, part of my enjoyment from playing the game as intended is being able to get high value stuff. With the nerfs, it's harder for me as a casual player to get good drops, leaving me with the only alternative - buying the items I want to test with my characters. I would never buy from Players, only NPC's, but even so, with the prices they way they are, a lot of the stuff I want to have is hardly affordable. And before someone says - "you don't need that stuff," then why is it in the game? If we don't need a gold Max Damage Hammer of Superstrong Versilimtude, then why have the item in the game, and why should I not be able to try to get it, same as everyone else, just because I am a part-time player?

If Anet intended this game for the casusal player, then the drops and item availability should be created in such a way for the casual player to be able to hold in hand at some point in the game each and every single item that they have programmed into the code. Whether that be from increasing drops, or making items available to purchase at a fixed rate from NPC's is up to them. Personally, I think a combo of both is the way to go. That way the culture of farming has it's draw to the game, and the rest of us have ours.

If Anet and the rest of the community is so against farming for profit, then make sure that the item availablity nixes the profit margin in the bud. If everyone is guaranteed to get that max damage hammer at some point in the game by completing quests and missions, there will be no reason to buy it for 100+k from a farmer in game or for $100 on eBay. Simply nerfing drops is not the way to go, IMHO.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

You guys need to re-evaluate the way you are playing this game, because as the game is now you don't have to farm to get what you need. 1.5k armor is easy to get and cheap. Weapons with the best stats are available from NPC collectors. You can walk into a town near the collector and buy a full set of frigid hearts or avicara scalps or whathaveyou to trade to the collector for 2p TOPS. In fact, if you pay 2p, you're getting ripped. It's just -2p- for the best weapon.

Ahhhhh, so you're responding by telling me, "no, it's not the best, this dewd is selling a weapon that's 1% better for 100k and I'm too poor, wahhhh." Well, then go FARM for the gold! I thought you liked to farm? If you like farming so much, why are you upset that it takes longer? You get to satisfy your inner farming urge that much longer! I'll stick with the collector items, tyvm.

EDIT: Oh, on the topic of 15k armor, the price is going up, in my opinion, because of inflation. Instead of increasing farmability, if there were more useful gold sinks for rich players, they wouldn't be willing to shell out the exorbitant 12k per ecto, and it wouldn't cost 2 mil for a set of fissure armor.

Look, I'm not a farmer right now, but then again, I'm barely getting any money, seeing as how much things can cost.
When I first got to Lion's Arch, and saw all these items being sold, I thought to myself "No way will I be able to get that much". And even with smarter players on these forums selling the things I'm thinking the same thing.

But then I remebered my friend telling my how he could get 10K just from farming from an hour and half, I gained hope. Now I look at this thread, and it seems that in order to get the weapons I really want, the armor I really want, I'll have to spend weeks upon weeks of non-stop playing to scratch the surface of the amount I need to get.

Do you really feel that you've earned something when you've spent say three hours earning 60k to buy that armour? Basically, people want to be able to exploit things to their advantage. The Droknar's armour is a status symbol, or at least it's supposed to be, it should say "I've worked my ass off earning this gold", but for many people it just says "I found a farming spot and exploited the fact that I could zone in and out of an area to make money quickly", or maybe even "I bought my gold of eBay".

What about the ascended armour? You can farm away and earn enough to buy all that ectoplasm and obsidian shards, then in one trip to the fissure, you can get your armour. Well done you. What have you achieved there? Nothing at all I think. As it's the same stats, it remains just a status symbol, but one that you certainly won't deserve.

I'm going to get that Obsidian armour; I have 31 pieces of ecto and 80 obsidian shards, and you know what? I've worked my ass of to get them. Being on the European servers is tough for the favour, so getting in to UW and Fissure needs to be done quickly and with a decent team. I've been to both places several dozen times and worked with teams to earn my rewards. I know it will take a long time to get there, but when I do I know I will have achieved something and be rewarded for my efforts.

This, in my opinion is what Arenanet were aiming for with this game. If everyone had gone the way of persevernece, then ascended and obsidian armour would actually mean something, but as it is it looks like the only one who's working for this stuff is me.

What weapons do you want that you can't afford???? Name them, or give me some stats, and I'll bet I can point you to a collector that will trade for it. If you can't afford to spend some time picking up 5 items for a collector or 2p tops to just buy it, you are doing something wrong.

Again, name a weapon. I dare you.

I want a 15% over 50% sword. Is there a collector for that? Where and what do they need?

(serious questions btw, not trying to be a smartass)

EDIT: I just looked over the Collector Location thread again and the only collector weapon with the 15% over 50% mod is the Ascalon Bow. If that's true can I borrow 150-250k to buy the sword I want?

(definately being a smartass, unless you have 250k to give me)

not to be a smartass either...but I want a Vampiric Flatbow of Fortitude 4/-1 +whatever HP

NPC... trading or selling best stats weapon??? I didn't see them selling vampiric hammer of fortitude(gold) or Fiery Dragon sword of fortitude or whatever. Mostly what they have are basic stat weapons. These super ultra whatever weapons that these guys are talking about do make a lot of difference in a fight.

I also keep on seeing responses here about the difference of the 15k armor against 1.5k. the difference is the price and little something in the appearance, other than that stats are the same. But some people want it and it's their choice. dont tell them what they should have and should not have.

*Farming is part of RPG. whether online or other game consoles*

/signed

Here are a few I've actively looked for that come to mind...

- A Deadly Cesta or Truncheon with either a health or energy bonus (seen one that had both)

- A Grim Cesta with +27 energy and a health bonus (know someone who has one)

- Any max dmg staff with a Healing Prayers requirement (never seen one)

- Any axe with a 3:1 Vampriric Haft

- Any weapon with a +25 or higher health bonus

- Any weapon other than an Ascalon Bow with +15% > 50%

None of these are available from collectors, and almost impossible to find being sold for only 2k... more like 20k or higher.

There's a Desert Collector with a 15% Health > 50% Sword. If not, there's one in the South Shiverpeaks. But he most assuredly exists.

The first two items are definitely Collector items.

Also, the Grim Cesta with +27 energy and a health bonus is most assuredly a Collector's Item, found in the Crystal Desert, as I have a Healing Ankh equivalent for my Monk. One exists for every profession. The actual stats are Energy +15, Energy +12, (They are written separately), -1 energy regen.

The last four don't even count, because they are the way they are because of Weapon Mods, not the weapons themselves. You could simply but the mods, often for noticably less than the weapons themselves.

Not according to the 16 page Collector Locations thread. I'm not saying that's the definitive info source, and maybe I missed it (again), but there's A LOT of info in there including the Crystal Desert and Southern Shiverpeaks (with maps even!). There are several 15% enchanted/stance swords...

This is off topic though. If you happen to find a 15% over 50% collector sword I would appreciate that information as I've never seen it.

Errrm I may be wrong, but this seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the thread. Please discontinue this coversation and start up a new thread. (MOD?)

I have done quite a bit of research on the collectors. I also own the prima guidebook. So base on my own experience, I can say the following:

No --> one desert collectors gives a 15% in stance, the other gives the 15% in hex (if i rememb correctly) sword. The S. Shiverpeak collectors gives the same as the desert. As far as I know, there are no collectors who give 15% for health > 50% (or i would've gotten it).

If you know this for sure, please post a screenshot, so that the rest of us can find them.

It may be that things have changed since you played, but the healing ankh in the desert is now +15 energy, 20/20. (My monk got both the div fav focus and the healing ankh from the desert, and they're both +15 20/20).

Btw, IMHO, +15 is not worth en regen-1... but that's just me...

FYI --> I am not a big fan of having to spend enormous amount of gold to get the kewl weapons. So I have been looking into the collector route for a while.

Meanwhile --> back to the topic at hand:

/sign

if you don't agree, please find some other thread to argues in? this thread was entitled a "petition to do xyz". If, in life, people come around to you with a petition, you can refuse to sign it. But...

Would you not consider it rude to grab their petition and start writing down the reasons others shouldn't sign it on their petition? Please have some respect for your fellow gamers.

/signed

Ok, I'll admit, my first post was just some excuse, because I thought later in the game there would be much more things that I'd need a LOT of money for (even though my sword and shield have awesome mods, and max), but now...

Farming should stop being nerfed. I don't know if Draknor's Forge to camp rankor, and a little beyond camp is a good farming spot or not, but I just went through it...and the only dropped items worth mentioning are a max damage shield, with no mods at all, a max damage falchion sword, with no mods...and thats about it. Unless you consider 1, maaybe 2 bags of gold-70 gold in the bags.

Even if the spot isn't a good place to farm, there should definently be more than 3 drops that you can actually sell and make money with.

And 5 drops total. 3 which aren't worth mentioning.

I'm not saying have a gold or purple max damage sword on every other drop. Just more drops of gold. During the distance I travelled and the number of enemies I killed, I really expected a lot more gold. I don't go out to farm, really, I'm just trying to get more exp to get other things. I don't exit the area hoping to find 7 gold max damage icy stormbows of fortitude. I just expect more than 150 gold in total, and 5 items dropped.

/signed
because im trying to save up for my fissure set and its taking longer and onger to make the money to BUY the ECTO that SUPER rarely drops in UW.

/signed

Enough Said!

OK, hidden agenda, you have a point, so this is my last post in this thread.

I apologize to all of you for coming off as rude, and I apologize for kinda hijacking the thread. I'm just going to tie up a few loose ends, and if anyone needs help farming or finding collector items or whatever, PM me.

In terms of weapons with upgrades like vampiric or of fortitude or whatever, true, you can't get those mods on collector items, but you can apply them to collector items.

In terms of getting the exact weapon you want, like a max sword with dmg +15% while health is over 50, vampiric 3/1 and +30 health, well, you can't expect to get exactly what you want right away! This game has been out for a few months and you're whining that you don't already have the best weapon you can conceive of in the game? Don't you want your weapon to be a status symbol/set you apart from the next guy when you finally get it? Isn't that the point of farming? In the meantime, you can get a max sword that's dmg +15% while in stance or while enchanted, or whatever, with 2/1 vampiric and +27 health. That's easily attainable via getting a collector weapon, and the amount of gold for those weapon mods isn't too exorbitant. I'd say easily attainable by a casual player (who's already level 20) in less than a dozen sessions of playing...not even farming.

This game is still very young. If they -don't- nerf farming, then everyone is going to have the exact same 100% perfect everything stat weapon before you can blink. If fissure armor is supposed to be the end-all of items in guild wars, it's ridiculous that many people already have multiple sets and this game is a few months old. Have you ever played another MMORPG? You wouldn't be complaining about farming then. Your character wouldn't even be ready to start farming for end-game items yet!

A few side notes for people since the proverbial can of worms has already been opened. I would love to continue debating, just PM me.
-The max staff wrapping of defense is +4.
-You can still get +27 energy +30 health off-hands from collectors.
-The collector list on these forums is comprehensive, but not complete.
-This is open for debate, but +30 health isn't as useful as +some armor, and the +armor is cheaper. Your max health only matters at the start of the battle, after it starts and your health is flowing up and down, +armor will extend your survivability a lot more.
-If you're farming with henchies, they do absorb drops. If something would drop and randomly be assigned to a henchie, you don't even see it. If you don't believe me, go hunt with some henchies for 10 minutes, then do the same with players. Count the drops (not gold) in both cases, and you will notice a striking proportion.

Bye, guys.

EDIT: Oh, max damage staff with healing prayers requirement? Why would you even need one? If you have healing prayers at 9+, you certianly have divine favor at 9+ too and there are plenty of decent divine favor stats. In any case, staves with healing prayers requirements are unavailable because they don't exist, not because they're rare and farming for them is hard. When I challenged people to post weapons, it was to post weapons that in their perception were unattainable through casual farming...not imaginary.

thats kinda the point of fissure armor, it takes forever to get.. thats what makes it fissure armor

I have personally visited the collectors for every Deadly Cesta and Truncheon in the Crystal Desert and South Shiverpeaks I could find based on this site's maps and other resource sites, and all of them are +20% recharge or casting speed, with no health or energy bonus. The one's I've actually seen that did have those bonuses were rare items, ie. gold, not collector's items.

Anyone know where? Because I've yet to find a +15/-1/+30 offhand item from a collector, and I've been looking all over the place. I have a friend who bought one, a Grim Cesta, that showed it to me, and it looked lilke it could have been a collector item since it wasn't purple of gold... but it could have been a drop or a beta item. Anyway, I'm not having any luck finding it, and if someone actually knows for a fact that there is a collector who has them, then by all means share the location with the rest of us. Otherwise, it's just an assumption that they exist, with no proof.

I actually have a +5 Wrapping Of Defense equipped on a Bone Staff that I salvaged from a drop. /shrugs

I've already got over 500 total hours invested into this game across multiple characters, thanks.

No... I could care less about that. Who else is ever gonna see it but me? All the cestas/idols look the same, regardless of the stats on them. I want to find these things to shore up weaknesses in my builds, that's why.

My N/Mo has 10 Healing Prayers and obviously zero Divine Favor since it's not an option. Sometimes it's good to have another staff around that doesn't do cold or dark damage, and holy damage is helpful against undead. Plus I like to have different mods on staves for different uses, and... why the hell am I explaining my playing style to you? It's none of your affair why I want it.

Lot of presumptions and judgements around here with very little understanding or facts. I'm in my mid 30s, played the game through normally once with very little low level farming, and could care less about impressing other players with fancy items - or with whether I'm playing the wrong game, or if I'm not playing the way others think I should. I'm in it for the fun and enjoyment. And I like to RP in Guild Wars too... <omigod, run away!!! GW isn't designed for RP!!! You're playing the game wrong!!!>...

Thanks, but I'll decline to both of your requests. You see, I didn't bring up the inflammatory "dare" in the first place, and this thread is littered with off topic posts condemning farming, one's playing style, that they bought the wrong game, whatever... and I don't agree with taking discussions which were begun in public and then hiding them behind closed doors when they get messy... and I also don't like to be told what to do, how to play or what to say. Cause you know, maybe I responded to "the dare" just because I wanted to sign the petition again, because I feel it's important... and maybe, just like with farming for loot in a game, BECAUSE I CAN.

/Signed yet again by default

Well said!! To reiterate, I am not a farmer, nor do I really have the leisure to be. Second, Anet developed this game with the casual player in mind. Third, Anet nerfs farming because in their view, it goes against #2, and the idea that this is a skills/team based game, not an item game.

That being said, I don't give a rat's a-- that I don't need super uber Fissure armor or weapons to be competitive in this game. The fact of the matter is that items such as that are available in the game, and as a casual player, I would like to have them. *I* will be the judge of whether I really need them for my character or not. And since this game is designed with the casual gamers in mind, I shouldn't have to farm or put in 300 hours to obtain items in this game.

For people to say that you need to put in x and x amount of hours and you will then have the funds or drops to get the uber armor is asinine. That goes against the casual player part of this game. I should be able to get every single piece of armor, weapon, and what-have-you item in this game simply by completing every quest and mission developed by Anet and playing this game to its linear conclusion - whether that takes 1 day or 100 days of playing.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

I agree. I am looking for a better bow than what I currently have, but I don't have 150k to drop for it. Plus, it never drops in UW (I was in UW this past weekend and received a whole 3 drops of Demon stuff in 4 runs).

Right away? Im approaching 300 hours in this game if I haven't passed that already since the last time I did a /age. I would not consider that "right away".

Status symbol? Hardly. I couldn't care less what other people think of my character or my equipment. I'm in this for ME and ME alone. There is no status in weapons as far as I'm concerned because unless you run up to someone and open the trade window or spam the chat channel's they'll never know what the hell the stats are. All fellblades look the same whether it's trash or treasure.

Farming, for me, is not about status. Farming is the means to an end. I want to either a) find the equipment I want or b) earn the cash to buy the equipment I want while looking, both as quickly as possible. As soon as I achieve either of those objectives I'm done farming. I'd like to get back to playing the game but I haven't even come close to achieving either a or b.

I already have those. I'm ready to upgrade now.

Great! Items are meaningless anyway! This game is about skill!

Shhhh! I can get a +7 armor pommel for 1k at the most and get more benefit from it than those that spend 80k+ on a +30 health pommel. Now you've gone and ruined it!

OMG!!! You just described farming.

/signed
sick of it

/signed

You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Yes, ANet designed this game with the casual gamer in mind, but they put in fissure armor to satisfy the more hardcore gamer! Ergo, if you're a casual gamer, fissure armor is supposed to be out of your reach.

/Signed.

As mentioned in another thread, 4 hrs in Mineral Springs, Frozen Forest, Snake Dance and Perdition Rock with 4.5K gold in total and ~10 collector items is not right. Not a single purple, gold item nor a non-white salvage kit.