The Need For A True "Guild War" (for those that love PvE)

Now, in all my suggestions I will try to have some emphasis on "what is the purpose" of having xyz vs. doing something because its cool, example, "I should have my own house in an outpost", then the question is "And what purpose does that serve?".

So, here I go.....

I've been a guild leader for 3 weeks for a fast growing guild. I find that many love PVE and aren't good or don't care for PvP, but, realize PVE has its limits eventually....so, the following will focus on extending PVE. The game is called "Guild Wars", but the only war is the actual physical fight of one guild vs. the next. The other war, the bigger one, is, which guild is the most popular, wise, friendly, courageous and adventurous... all leading to a score of SUCCESS.


NEW GUILD LADDER

A separate Guild Ladder focused on PVE
This would include a system that gives new ratings to the guild leader, and to all players. These ratings are the core focus of those playing PVE since XP of course has its limits. And, these ratings are the core focus and purpose for those in a guild without its majority playing PvP.

A-Counters for
1. "qty of elite skills captured per member of guild"
2. "qty of boss's killed (1 kill per boss) per guild member"
3. "qty of runes/upgrades unlocked per guild member"
4. "qty of missions/bonus completed, with extra points for bonus per guild member"
5. "qty of ascended players per guild"
6. "qty of quests completed per guild member"
7. "qty of ascended profession combinations and derivatives of this kind of counter"
8. "percentage of maps explored and cleared per guild member"
9. "qty of deaths per member....yes, some incentive to NOT die"

B - Algorithms for (to prevent spamming the score in some way with the above counters)
1. "members amount of time spent questing with guild members"
2. "members amount of time spent questing with non members who become members"
3. "amount of time a member has been in the guild"
4. "percentage of party size that includes guild members and frequency of that"
5. "a check for all of the above counters where those events take place during the members active guild" vs. bringing those counters to the guild from another guild)

C - Outcome (what gets displayed to end users)
1. Trophy Room in the Guild Hall (shows each boss killed as a trophy, and which are left, which are the current target/mission selected by leaders/officers)
2. Adventurers Room (shows scroll or scribe on the wall of a listing of the NPC's which gave quests and that they have been completed)
3. Missions Room (similar to adventures room, but obviously with emphasis on missions/bonus's)
4. Members Room (shows a plaque with members/officers name and current mug shot) also shows ratings/scores for the various stated algorithms
5. As the mentioned rooms fill up, points are achived, those points can be exchanged for customization of the guild hall.... gold trim, custom banners, room upgrades ect. Anything that currently exists can be improved some how and as well things can be added as long as they don't effect the outcome of gvg battles (but they should still be visible in gvg).
6. In the Trophy Room, Adventures Room, Missions Room
Subcounters to visually display the outcome of the already stated algorithms. Such as a teamwork rating that uses the stated algorithms to show the teamwork score/points.

D - A couple of things that need to happen to support this...
1. More quests would be nice, and dynamic as well, based off what answers you gave the NPC's, somewhat like what NWN did (of course GW Chars don't have those attributes)
2. Ability to allow non members to tour the hall for a specific amount of time to see rooms and status of the guild
3. Lore, more of it....much more obscure and odd quests that tie into eachother over long periods of time, like Gwen. Make it really worth spending 2 hours to get to a place that has no outposts to take a brake at.

Obviously I can get much more granular than this.......but hey, I don't work for ArenaNet, and I need to actually get back to work before I get fired!

PS: These suggestions are of course for a major version release vs a patch...but...I think it could all be done with a patch as well, given enough time.
PSS: One small thing that can be done now, separate from this entire post....allow me to see current quests completed!

Marc Miles (Kirkland Wa)
InGame (Selden Meliorate)
Guild "Consort Of Simpatico Carnage" CoSC
http://www.guilduniverse.com/cosc/

I like it, it would definitly make the game more entertaining.

nice idea to reward pve guilds.

I'm all for improving the PvE experience so this gets my vote!

I like it, too. It would be nice to actually put things in the Guild Hall that make it.. You know.. Interesting to visit.

The name 'Guild Wars' refers to the storyline events that occured before the game storyline, described in the lore spread throughout the game. Even if you want to apply the name in game, guilds actually fighting toe to toe as happens in PvP is a far more accurate representation than guilds performing the functional equivalent of working in seperate, closed off rooms to see who can push a button the highest number of times in order to get higher on some ladder.

I don't like this proposition. For PvP, the ladder is a straightforward, simple system: if you can defeat another guild, you move up - if you lose, you move down. The guild at the top of the ladder is the guild with the best win record.

This PvE ladder system however quickly gets very complex, because it begs the question "what is the best way to play PvE as a guild?". Many guilds play PvE in different ways. There are role-playing guilds that spend hours in outposts just talking, there are casual guilds that focus on having fun at a leisurely pace, there are competitive guilds that try to unlock as much as possible for PvP through PvE, there are small, tight-knit guilds, just as there are massive guilds, etcetera. Why would one of these ways to play PvE be 'better' than the other?

But even if you ignore all that, and look at the practical side, things get very tricky. Let's say a player with a fully unlocked account joins a guild. Does that mean that guild suddenly shoots up in ranking? If yes, that means a couple of people with fully unlocked accounts could join up in one guild and pop up at #1 in the charts, and it would pretty much be impossible to compete with a guild like that as long as they're still killing bosses/questing/etc. If not (which would imply only achievements while being in the guild would count), that means only people with new accounts could contribute to their guild rank. Switching guilds would be right out, since you'd affect both your old and new guild in a negative fashion, etc.

Why is this such a complex problem? Because PvE is not competitive. Why is it not competitive? Because you can't keep getting better at it, it doesn't require you to increase your skill anymore once you've tackled a scripted challenge once. The moment you're able to kill a boss, the next 99 times aren't going to be a problem anymore, and any competition you can hold around that boils down to seeing who can repeat their tricks most often. A ladder for that would be meaningless, and therefore pointless.

Yes Silmor we all know that it's named that because of the story line and most of us problably don't really care why it was named that. If the "guild wars" ended do you mind telling me why the hell guilds still fight in their guild halls? How does that fit into the storyline? Do they do it just for the hell of it? Are they just skirmishing because they've nothing else to do? That's just...bland.

Though even though I don't like the current system of PvP I am not for this.

I'm not concerned about rank I'm concerned about fun and my ability to do something in this game, adding more titles and trophies to PvE isn't going to do anything but add some text to some guilds. I'm not all about that. See it's not that I enjoy just "PvE" or "farming" I just don't have anything else to do in the game, and that aggrivates me. Large scale PvP battles that don't end like "arena" battles, just battles that keep going, a war is what I'd say would be the best solution, more fun, even for PvE players I'd say who don't care about "rank" or "faction" just so that they can have fun feeling like their fighting for a side in a battle you can get immersed in.

While I don't really see a reason not to have it, a rank or title is what out of all this game has to offer, I'm least concerned about. I don't care if I'm last ranked or first ranked it's about being able to have fun that matters to me.

PieXags, I wouldn't mention it if people wouldn't incessantly keep bringing it up as a reason why their guild warrish suggestion or way of playing is somehow more validated.

You don't like being in a guild? It's called GUILD wars you know!
You don't like PvP? It's called guild WARS you know!
I want PvE competition! It's called GUILD WARS you know!

Then where are the GUILD WARS?

A group of 8 fighting another group of 8 seems pretty small. Hardly a war. Hardly a battle. It wouldn't even be considered much of a skirmish.

In the past, naturally. The Guild Wars took place long before the story starts.

I think this is a great idea. This would give some more depth to the PvE aspect of the game, and for those that don't like then just go to PvP. God knows you guys have a whole lot more than us PvEers, so give us something new. Adding more missions will eventually die, becuase they need some ideas for the expansion packs and you can only play a mission so many times until it gets boring. Adding titles and "ranks" to PvE would make it better, it would be just like the PvPers have except a little more complex. But hey we PvEers got time if we already beat the game and are tired of UW and Fissures.

LOL, thats all you are doing in PVP, its sick, new guilds dont stand a chance, the current guild ladder is weak and unbalanced.

You didnt read my post....you wouldve noticed that the ranking algorithms prevent that by counting mostly stats of a guild for what CURRENT guild members do, vs. what guild members bring with them into a guild.

No, this would give you incentive to stay IN a guild and not SWITCH guilds becuase switching would make all your progress not count as much in the new guild. Also, this would make your choice of which GUILD to join a more serious choice to make rather than responding to "Inverted Dutch Boy recruting, capes, hall, teamspeak, whisper me" and yes, I did see that guild name yesterday.

Your too funny, thats all your doing in PvP, same trick, same build you found online that eveyone else is using, same ol same ol. And you didnt fully read my post, ArenaNet can eaisly develop algorithms to make this system work and balanced by taking into account how much work is done within that users active guild and how often they quest with guild members and the like.

Now, I will agree with one thing, there are some overarching themes within guilds within the context of how they play PVE.........all of which can be balanced. And, if a guild is just hanging around chatting in an outpost all day long..........thats not actually playing the "Game", they might as well be in a Yahoo chat room is thats what they mostly do in GW (dont get me wrong, chat away as needed, just not all time, whats the point, pick up the phone).

Yes, we know that "GUILD WARS", and like I said, there is more to a war than fists to fists my friend! Which is the whole point of my post.

Sounds good. Here's another...

I had an idea that i suggested a few times at every opportunity and the opportunity again presents itself here....

A PvE arena. You alone, with friends, PUGs or a Guild team start in an arena and you face "Everlasting" waves of monster attacks.

The waves at the beginning are very simple, with just a few low level devourers etc but after 100+ waves, you would be facing critters of levels proportionate to yourselves.
Another 50+ waves later and you would be facing the toughest of the tough and beating these would force even more numbers upon you.

There would be no end to this onslaught and EVERY team will eventually end in defeat but would gain recognition for surviving up to certain waypoints.

We have HoH announcements for PvP so it would be fair to allow PvE people to gain recognition in the same manner.

Rewards for it? Hmmm, perhaps a customised max weapon of their choice (not like the scabby selection system from collectors) but being able to select for example, bowstring, grip, bow and a custom +% stat for it.

That's the basics of my "Praying to God for ArenaNet to make" idea.

Tactical DIllusions.............now that is a great suggestion, I like that eveyone dies in the end, its a matter of how far you made it that matters.

It wont happen soon, as far as I can see nothing is dynamic in the monster spawning that I have seen, its always the same, so with their current engine they would have to staticly script this out a long ways.

Also, to touch on Silmors comment some more.......ArenaNet can eaisly make their monsters much harder then they are now, make them more like the Korean guilds in the tombs. Some may actually be unbeatable, hey, thats a novel idea.........but thats so un hollywood of me to suggest that. ;-)

Selden, your original post was well thought out and gets my vote.
Tactical, the PvE Arena has been asked for by many and I hope Anet sees fit to give us one.

As for Silmor and Crispy are you guys related to Stealth Rider -aka- Mr.Negativity or his twin Desco(from another forum, I'm not sure I can mention here). Before you post a reply to a topic from henceforth, mayhaps you should at least Read "AND" Understand the WHOLE discussion before inputting your .02. OH! , and Crispy, Question: If the ONLY CONCEPT of Guild Wars was PvP why include PvE at all? See Answer below.


Just a small incerpt from the topic of a PvE arena between myself and Mr. Negativity (If you know where to look you could see the whole topic):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Rider
this cant work period, and not for any gameplay reason. look at my fitrst post. this whole concept is against everything GW stands for: teamwork, strategy, equal opportunity, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
A) Only Arena Net can say any of our ideas "Won't Work/Can't Work"
B) We're the ones PAYING for it,it's our world therefore we can ATTEMPT to guide it. Obviously there is a desire for something like this as well Stealth.
C) I believe my suggestion of an arena ( s ) for this type of thing is more feasible than an area of map/town/outpost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
Might I make this suggestion:

Instead of a Town/Outpost with however many players can be crammed in there. I suggest an Arena similar to the ones we have now where 16(current max players per arena) or maybe up to 20 players all pay an entry fee(say umm $50 or $100 gold) Then fight it out King of the Hill/Last Man Standing/Winner Take All style. Last Player to SURVIVE wins the pot,gets fame points etc. Maybe even have a Ladder for it? (No Drops)(Once you're dead you're ejected or lay there and watch the rest of the battle{make that players choice}) Very interested in hearing more thoughts on this type of Arena. Arigatou.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Rider
theres obviously no teamwork involved. the "fotm" chars i described above completely get rid of all strategy and any equal opportunity for any class to succeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
A) The whole concept of this type of battle is to get away from the "TEAMWORK" concept(As I stated above there is a desire for this,OBVIOUSLY)
B) As for FOTM(flavor of the month) Characters this would be a PvE character thing ( you are aware there is a PvE side to this game ? ) therefore you'd have to build up over time the character ( s ) you would wish to use in this type of battle so there would be no "quick builds" like PvP mode. Thus requiring a great deal more Strategy needing to be used.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Rider
really think Anet will implement it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
As much as I hope and believe Arena Net will implement any of the other ideas/suggestions that many people that "buy" their product request.

MORE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by desco
One question that needs to be addressed is WHY an area is desired to show off the "power" of your build.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
Umm because it is being requested? OR Why not? OR better yet, Why is an area desired to show off the "power" of your team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by desco
Thats like me playing rock, paper, scissors and saying "man let me show you how powerful rock is!"

I like to play PvE, but sometimes the PvE community makes me cringe. Most of the avid PvE posters come here and post an idea that totally goes against the concept of the game. I'm starting to agree with the "go back to WoW" attitude that a lot of the PvPers have.

The idea of a town under attack is a lot more feasable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
A)Question: If the ONLY CONCEPT of Guild Wars was PvP why include PvE at all?
Answer:a) Because Arena/NC Soft Knows that the term "Role Playing Game" is married to the Concept of PvE -aka- Role Playing.
b) Because of how many units(game discs) Arena/NCSoft projected it would sell to non PvP style players -aka- Role Players.
c)Because the crew at Arena (the ones that helped build and left Blizzard) are Role Players.
d)Without the PvE side of Guild Wars all that is left is a 3rd Person(first person if you zoom the camera in) Shooter using blades,axes etc. instead of guns.

I have never played WoW,never even wanted to beta test it or try it.

I had been waiting for Arena to release Guild Wars since the crew first announced they was creating "a game" no title, no screenshots. just a "MMORPG". Because I was a huge Diablo/Diablo 2 player and knew what these people are capable of creating.

As for "Concepts" here's one:Once "people" start "living" in a world those "people" start to "mold" that world to their liking.

(Hopefully now all you people that use the word "Concept" without thinking it through will stop)

For the record: I am a PvE player -aka- ROLE PLAYER, I created a PvP character at the request of my guild,attempted to use him once(at the request of my guild) and haven't attempted PvP since. It's not for me, I knew this from the beginning. I don't begrudge any PvP style,PvE style or combination style players of the way they want to play we each paid for our copy of the game we should be able to play it as we wish(Obviously within the parameters of the build ie: how Arena makes it work).
*EDIT*More for the record: If this type of area/arena was implemented by Arena Net. I highly doubt you would see me enter it with any of my characters to me it's just more PvP but a varied style.

"Although I may disapprove of what you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it'' Attributed to Voltaire. arigatou
*end Edit*

*Shakes his head and walks away mumbling: "Way too much animosity and contempt between the varying styles of players,reminds me of politicians and why they can barely get anything good accomplished." "Can't we all just get along?"

YET STILL MORE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Rider
A) why not? how about because the game is based on teamplay and equal opportunity, as i said. figure out the rest, you obviously have an answer for all of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
Yes I most likely do, I answered this one before you asked it(twice as a matter of fact).

Quote(From Previous Post):
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
A) The whole concept of this type of battle is to get away from the "TEAMWORK" concept(As I stated above there is a desire for this,OBVIOUSLY).



Quote(From Previous Post):
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
As for "Concepts" here's one:Once "people" start "living" in a world those "people" start to "mold" that world to their liking.?"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Rider
B) this is NOT an MMORPG and can not be called one. it is best described as a "Massively Multiplayer Online Cooperative Play Real Time Strategy Action Role Playing Game." i urge you to find a better way to describe it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
1) I still see you have the MMORPG concept in there.
2)Yes ! ROLE PLAYING GAME and the request of this type of area is the "ROLE" that some people want to play just as you wish to play the "ROLE" you wish to play.
3) I agree it didn't turn out to be a "Massively" Multiplayer game, but it is very clearly a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Rider
C) Anet being RPers-this has what to do with a 1v1 arena?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
Not much other than the fact that should they see this as a feasible request from a section of the people that buy their product, being Role Players and seeing the desire for this type of ROLE they may be inclined to implement it along with the thousands of other gameplay requests/suggestions they receive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Rider
D)please get back on topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
If you are refering to me , I have never left topic. Although I personally may never use this type of area/arena, I have seen/heard a desire for it from the players. Also I am not attempting so much to Champion the idea of this area/arena,but to Champion the ability of all of us to attempt to mold Guild Wars into the game we'd like to play. Just as I would Champion an idea from you Stealth that I felt would better Guild Wars.


SO IN SUMMATION: "Don't knock it until ya tried it."

alright, i was a little hasty, BUT! The game was not made to reward guilds for killing bosses, monsters OR finishing quests. The Game was made to reward Guilds for killing other Guilds and thats what it really comes down to. They will not make PvE Guilds a ladder because they arent doing anything amazing by killing a script. They ARE doing something amazing by killing 8 other players who can THINK and can react to certain things, because that is a lot harder to do. They Will NOT change anything to make PvE guilds have any guild status if they do NOT GvG. End of Story.

Well, I'm glad that I've found someone on this forum who is so enlightened that he can say without any qualms exactly WHAT the developers had in mind when they brought this game forth into existance.

Such knowledge is awe-inspiring. Perhaps I might even be able to ascertain the purpose of creation from him, but I won't get my hopes up.

Arigatou Shayul. Ristaron and PieXags well met. I need not add anything more.

"A closed mind is a wasted mind." -Unknown

Besides, sometimes the rinse-and-repeat strategies are even less fun and brainpower invoking than doing PVE. I like the Survival mode idea a LOT, especially if they just blitz in with little or no time to heal, and the mobs are randomized.

If i have no right to say what to game was made for neither do you. who cares about what it was made for in the first place, its a VIDEOGAME! Seriously, its not a big deal.

My only reason for posting in here was that the creation of a PvE Guild Ladder is a terrible idea that wont be liked at all, because PvE is not fun after 500 hours of game play, adding a ladder for it wouldn't make it better. PvP on the other hand will never get old, because of the constant creation of new builds and strategies.

Oh, and all of you who read my post, and flamed it... what are you twelve?Go ask A-net what the game was mainly made for if you really want to try and proove me wrong.

After all, it's not a MMORPG. If you don't believe me, go ask them yourselves. They will tell you the game is an online rpg not MMO. They did not want an MMO and most MMOs are based on PvE only. THEREFORE the game is better set for PvP rather than PvE.

In all reality, GW is a poor PvE game that could use some work, but PvP is the best out there. I don't understand why someone would play GW just for PvE because it really is not that great.

Arena Net will not make a PvE ladder. Once again, End of Story.

"5---So you're saying everyone who enjoys PvE should have to enthusiastically play PvP to get their guild recognized in some way or another? Boy that sounds dumb, doesn't it? Not only dumb, but about as unfair as PvP players having to play PvE, you wouldn't want that would you?"

No i'm not saying that everyone who plays PvE should play PvP to have there guild recognized because if your guild is PvE only, why would it care about Rank and Rating in the first place? Most Guilds while recruiting, say if their PvE or PvP. The only time anyone looks up another guild on the Ladder is MAINLY durring 3 times. In Tombs, Guild battles, and while recruiting. So, if your looking for people to get into your PvE guild just say your PvE only.

I don't beleive any of the people ASKING for a PvE ladder are SAYING that's what the game was made for we are merely requesting it.
Obviously you are wrong Chrispy, it seems to me that a PvE ladder WOULD be liked by myself and many of the other people that back the idea. Mayhaps some of us feel that PvP gets old & boring.

FYI, I'm 36 and a married father of 6,been playing RPG's Since Pen & Paper. You are the one who's behavior is common to an adolescent. See example:
You may wish to go back and thopuroughly read my previous post here before you reply again, it will save everyone time.

You said it, the game is an RPG = ROLE PLAYING GAME(Which means players having a role) not a Fighting Game or an FPS/FPW(First Person Shooter/First Person Weapon) Again, thouroughly read my previous post to answer most of the rebuttals you are thinking of right now, I got ya covered already.
People would play just for PvE, because that's what they like, just as you obviously like just PvP.

Do you work for Anet, or have some inside info the rest of us don't? Then how do you know that Anet will not make a PvE Ladder? Have you seen the future? I don't think so. So therefore it is not "End of Story" if enough of the people that buy thier product request ANYTHING FEASIBLE then I would at least hope Anet considers implementing it in game. Yet again go thouroughly read my previous post in this thread before replying again.

I don't have to say anything about my afiliations with Anet. I actually don't want to say anything so i wont. But that doesn't say i havent met some of em.

PvE is intrinsically linked to roleplay and vice versa. PvE is as important to this roleplay game as to any other. it tells the story, fleshes out the background of our characters, and give the context in which the battle between guilds is taking place. that is the roleplay. That you are a necromancer that makes people kill themselves does not make it role-play per se. by that logic, Counterstrike might be considered a RPG, by virtue of the fact that i am killing at long range with a single shot, so i'm playing the role of a sniper, or i'm using a high powered automatic rifle, so i'm playing the role of a point man.
Role play is more than that. its about your character's personality, his goals, his alliances and the choices he makes.
now having said that, Chrisby, if your goal is to weld your guild into a tight-knit, powerful squad that will achieve dominance by force of arms over all that stand before you, then so be it. i'm not saying that is any less worthy a goal than any other you could take in this game. but to facilitate that, you have the PvP arenas and the online ranking and presumeably you've played enough PvE to unlock at least some of the cool skills.
but there are other players out there who love Guild Wars as much as you might, but who actually enjoy killing the many (and some, quite dangerous, even for a full party) minions that lurk out in Tyria. is it not worth rewarding a guild leader and his officers, if, instead of spending all their time in the rewarding cut-and-thrust (no pun intended) of PvP, they choose to devote hours to questing and slogging through mobs, just so that two or three members of the guild in the party might cap a elite skill from a particular remotely located boss? your guild's ranking and ladder in PvP would be completely unaffected, but you would deny that this kind of hard work and guild camaraderie is in the spirit of Guild Wars and should be recognised? if i were a game designer, i know i would want people to enjoy the fruits of my labour, to explore every lush landscape, to hunt down every skill, item and treasure and to do battle against all the creatures i took so long to script and animated.
some recognisition for PvEs, just like the PvPs enjoy, can't be completely a bad thing. come on Chrisby, think of it from a PvP perspective if you want: extra incentive for attaining things like elite skills and unlocked items is only going to lead to better armed and specced guilds in the PvP arenas. Better armed and specced guilds means tougher fights, more challenges and more glory for the winners. thats got to be a good thing for everyone

IMO, to each his own. You can voice your opinions as much as you want, but you can not force them on people. In otherwords, I take much of what I read with a grain of salt.

Not to insult the intelligence of our 14 year old friend, but I do find with age comes more openmindedness; when you've experienced the world a bit more, you'll begin to understand this more.

But I detract from the OP. I think PvE is a very important component of GW. Personally, that's why I bought the game. If I were to take a survey, albeit from a small subset of people, it may not hold much water from a statistical point of view, but in any case, the majority of my friends (on GW) are PvErs and will only start to play some PvP after ascension.

I think a PvE ladder is quite an original idea. I'm not sure why some on this thread have taken offense to this, as this would in no way impact the PvP ladder. Trying to fight about something that is really of no consequence to you makes me shake my head in wonder....

-Ashraven

what type of scientific formula did you use to come up with this information? 90% play PVP only? i believe that i read in another post that aprox 400,000 people have registered their copy of guild wars........so that means only 40,000 people play PvE? yeah ok.....

I think PvP and PvE are linked. I went to Tomb of Primeval Kings (w/c can be found just north of Dragon's Lair in PvE) and joined the fight. In the battle field I saw a friend of mine in his PvP character. that means (i believe that) that both PvP and PvE players can meet up each other in Tomb of Primeval Kings.

Correct me if I am wrong.

If I am right, Chrisby Pwns may have included PvE players in his estimated 90% of PvP players.

Guild PvE sounds good to me , i dont care for stats , but some missions or quests that you could only go with your guild members sounds fun.

this game is about competition and team work , but most of all having fun and yes meeting people.so dont tell people to go chat on yahoo rooms , becose you can also go play single player games.

ya it would be pretty sweet

I think Seldens and Tactical-Dillusions ideas are outstanding.
Being a player who, in the main, sticks to PvE and belongs to a guild that does primarily the same, I would find any sort of Guild recognition would add something to being in a PvE Guild. I have tried PvP, but unfortunately I have neither the time or the patience to waste on competing with Guilds/players whose entire gaming lives are spent on PvP. I believe that this one of the reasons that Anet made such a brilliant PvE component. If the main goal of Guild Wars was to be PvP, why make the PvE side at all, when they could have just implemented something like the faction points we have now?
Anyway, just wanted to give my vote of support for the ideas.
Also to lament the fact that reasonable and well thought out posts will be derailed by someone feeding a troll.

It's fortunate that I left your guild when I did, Chrisby, if the intelligence you display here is indicative of the intelligence of the other members of the LoT. I would refute your posts point by point, but that's already been done by other people quite well.

In regard to the topic of the thread, I believe a PvE guild ladder would be an interesting addition to the game, assuming it's implemented correctly.

I think I now know why I dont play pvp.

Not to mention I dont want to wait four hours just to get into a group for a 3 minute match

I apologize kirgr526 I didn't see the "Do Not Feed The Troll" sign it was covered with something. I'll try not to let it happen again. Even before your post I decided it wasn't worth the effort (ignorance is bliss and apparently deaf).

Nothing to apologize for, we all do it, its just a shame that doing so always ends up being the focus of the post in the end, thus the point of the post disappears into oblivion. That was my point, not on blaming people for having a natural reaction to such things, as on this post.

who are you and since when were you in LoT?

BTW no one in my guild agrees with ne thing i say so dont take my opinions as the rest of the opinions of the guild. Ty

People always use the "Why make PvE at all if its a PvP focused game" arguement. The reason: To get a larger market of people to buy the game in the first place. Duh. If they never made a PvE, im sure none of you would have bought the game. I would have anyway, but thats just me. I still think that allowing Guilds that DO NOT fight OTHER GUILDS to be allowed recognition for something like killing boss monsters, is a bad idea. Reason: Killing a boss is easier than killing 8 other people. I understand a lot of people like PvE and would disagree with me that PvE Guilds arent doing anything special enough to be allowed recognition, but its true. If you want recognition, go give 10 plat to about 1000 people. Then your guild would be recognized =P

Yes, yes, well played my good chap. I cannot argue with your point about killing bosses, you are right its not noteworthy in of itself. Nor can I argue that there is anything yet in PvE that fully justifies a ranking system, but I think that that point gives more credance to Tactical-Dillusions suggestion:

Yes, while it may require major tweaking to make it a consistantly changing challenge, I think it would provide a true measure of where PvE guilds are compared to each other. Probably an expansion pack idea but not necessarily a huge stretch to see something like this added without detracting from PvP.
As for the rest of the post: 10plat to 1000 players, yes you will get recognition, but, still a bit beyond the reach of your average guild. Now, giving away un-ided components and runes, on top of plat, that's more realistic.
Your right in your point that none of us (PvE players) probably would not have bought the game. but your missing the fact that if they felt that PvP was the main focus and responded with content as such, they would lose us all as buyers for their expansions, and i am afraid that may just mean the death of the game or monthly costs for everyone playing.

I like this idea. Sorry I'm joining in so late and missed all the er...fun? I suppose it needs tweaking and all but at the base of it an excellent idea. It gives PvE guilds something to strive for.

well, Pashet said exactly what was on my mind (more or less), so I guess I'll just add an ambiguous "SECOND'D" and leave it at that.

WOW did this thread get derailed. I decided to come back and have a look to see what people thought of my suggestions. And, it seems mixed of course, but if you look at all the MMO's out there, there are large percentages playing PVE and PVP. I think what is important (not for GW), is to integrate the PVP gameplay in some way that it assist with the building of the story, character, guild ect. Othwise, you have two seperate games. GW took the approach of the PVE assisting the PVP, which is fine (hence the unlocking of items).

Basically, GW was created as a PVP game with PVE assisting it, where other games either try to balance PVE and PVP or do PVE only (D&D Online). Anyway, I will continue to look for a game that rewards PVE grouped play and actually gives incentives to being on a team other than the social aspect.

NICE. It would definitely have my vote. 5 Stars for the idea.

I am tired of "guild 8v8"

PvE Guilds are a break from the onslaught of FOTM builds