Warriors are incredibly underpowered in PvE!

Seriously, there is soooo many ways to counter them, it's ridiculous! I'm not saying that warriors suck... But they are simply outclassed! Every profession has atleast 5 ways to counter a warrior, and a warrior has very few ways to counter these counters.

Most people won't attack Warrior first, so his armor is near useless. There is nothing you can do about this, but the fact that Warrior's damage isn't anything special doesn't help at all.

They can't compete with an Elementalist for damage, yet an elementalist doesn't even have to be close to the foe to attack.

It seems everysingle class is an Anti-Warrior, yet a Warrior is an Anti-Nothing (nothing has a particular weakness to warriors).


I don't know why you made them so underpowered, but please fix it!

I would post your warrior's build and then complain about damage. I have no problem taking down enemies with both haste and ease when I solo with my warrior.

I think he might mean PvP =_=

In PvE the mobs are too dumb, and warriors are actually one of the best PvE classes.

Err... I don't think he's really complaining about the damage, just the fact that he's too lazy to run up to the enemy ~_~

He's right when he says the damage isn't special - It's balanced with Necro, Ranger, and Monk. Sometimes they will outdamage you, sometimes you will outdamage them.

PvP just seems like a battle of rangers and casters. I find it highly dissapointing that they completely left out Melee in the mix.

how can you say there outmatched by any class seriously in tombs no other class would 1vs1 against a warrior without having a monk there healing them a hammer unless maybe your a ranger i dont see any mesmer, necro, ele,monk being able to kill a decent W/E Knockdown/aftershock there armors are to weak and with hammer your doing around 60-70 points of dmg each hit

I never said anything about 1 vs 1. Every class in this game is better than warrior at PvP. Warriors can be countered too easily. Almost every class (save Necroe, I believe) has a skill that lowers melee hit rate by 75%. Couple that with the fact that they can easily be blinded and have weakness applied.

I'll take your word for it, you do 60-70 hit each time every time when you hit, but how are you going to hit when you are dealing with blindness, ward against melee, and a spell or stance that lowers your hit rate by 75%? Couple that with the Hammers slow attack rate, you have easily and effectively been shut down (keep and mind these skills are usually spammable).

My main tombser is and Aftershock Hammer warrior. Eldorian Swiftshot is her name if anyone here has come across her. I usually call targets for the team since I have alot less to do then the other people on my team. My usuall tactioc is to charge right into the enimes front lines. Two things usualy happen.
1. I get the crap beaten out of me but rarely enough so as our monk can't heal me in time. When this happens alot of the enime tewam has wasted it's firepower trying to get though my armour instead of going for the spellcasters.
2. They enime team will ignore me and go for a caster. I then procede to the nearest caster or monk and give him such a pounding .

Another great thing is that eldorian has the power to solo a enime preist dead in 25 secconds. Alot of the time I'll break away from my team (Warning them on TS of course) and having a quick scout around. Any unguarded prests in the area are quicckly delt with.

I take it you don't mean the tombs. Because most people bring cater counters there.
To counter blocks and evade either bring seeking blade, Irresistable Blow, Swift chop or Warriors cunning. Blindness either have the teams monk (Or if ur seccondary is a monk do it yourself) remove it. Plauge touch is also great for this. There are ways to counter everything.

I wish I could repost all the reason why warriors suck from the other forum. Though many may argue that warriors don't such, I yet to see good argue on why don't. All I get is example of how a warrior player took out a noob player. I have yet to see on this forum or any other forum, post that say "warriorz r 2 uber."

Warriors suck for 3 reasons...

1) There no other melee classes in this game. With no other melee class, there is no one to challenge you to fight grudge. Rangers and spellcasters aren't much of a fight because they don't fight back, they just inflict a condition or hex that cripples you and flee, making combat frustrating and tedious. Some people just give up and making the warrior more of a caster than actual warrior which why you are starting to see so many W/E with long abilities and W/R with bows. ONE of the reasons I wanted to get rid of the snares and stances from Ranger was this very reason.

2) Any damage they do can easily be healed away by a monk, reduced through armor/spells or avoid through stance/enchantment. Unless the monk has been cursed to do less healing or shutdown/disable, there is no way for the warrior to kill the monk with pure damage. It's been said that equipment doesn't matter in GW, which is why the warrior suffers so much in the damage depart. To make matters worse, GW gets the bright idea to give rangers stances and spellcasters abilities to increase armor value or reduce physical damage to ridiculous amounts.

This handicaps the warrior further and makes it hard for the warrior be useful. Take ward against melee; for example. WAM last 18 seconds and take 20 seconds to recharge. By the time spell ends, it almost time to cast it again. I've had a E/Mo cycle through WAM and spell was to hard to predict when it ended because during this time you were sitting duck to other attacks. Those who claim that there is no imbalance with such issues are the very same people abusing such moves and tactics.

Believe me, I and others have argue this same point out and we are told to learn to play better by other players who obviously are the very people who spam cast these moves.

3) Chaining. Chaining healing, chaining condition or chain hex makes a warrior next to useless. If a monk chain heals, you'll be there all day trying to kill them as a warrior. If a warrior is condition by a ranger (bleed, poison, cripple, etc.) he'll a sitting ducks while his friend's get slaughter. And finally if he chain hexed, he'll die within a couple of second due to DOTs. Aside from Lightning attacks, DOTs can easily by bypass a warriors armor, doing damage without reduce and cause other negative effects like reducing a warrior's attack speed or zap his energy. Because it's so easy for 5 out of 6 of the classes to do from a distance the warrior is at HUGE disadvantage and the only way for the warrior to have a chance against any of these character someone has to open a window of opporunity for him. As Invader said in my topic, a monk will mend aliment if a warrior is crippled or condition, but without that monk (For whatever reason that monk isn't present to help the warrior), he is pretty much a sitting duck.

How many warriors in arena, tombs, and GvG have you seen used this move? Honestly, I wanted to know how many people in your group or random groups have you seen use those move? Most warriors don't even have hamstring or axe rake.

I wish I could repost my experiences in Arena mode about how effective warrirors were in pvp. Honestly, if I can find the topic, I will post the link up for you to read because in a lot of worse case scenarios warriors were down right useless if they used certain builds, used certain weapons or didn't have certain moves.

Warriors use brute-force tactics, they take and deal damage CONSISTENTLY, much more so than the other classes. Warriors can cripple opponents who attempt to flee, but a lot of their value (in PVP) comes from the ability to independently harass casters or even hardened targets such as other warriors. All the cantrips in the world won't work if they're countered -- you'll still be pounded on by an angry sword- (or axe, or hammer) wielding maniac. And while you're running away or using your stance/whatever, the warrior's teammates are shutting down your monks and laying a strategy that will enable them to win.

So basically, your post is full of ignorance of the way things work.

On point 1, sure they are the only melee class, but they far from suck. They are the easiest class to PvP with. You will get bet by a player with the right skills.
i.e. 9 wins in competative arena on the 10th figthing another warrior, but this one has a defensive stance and my warrior was not equiped for it, i loss.
My ranger will go toe to toe with any warrior, mel arrows, duel shot, destracting shot, phantom pain and cunjor phantasm = 10 degen and Im hitting you for 30-70 dam, that with either tigers furry, or my favourate, but not as spammable dodge mean 33% faster attack. If I have favourable winds nearby they majority of warriors fall over and die. Troll urgent at 10 regen helps alot

2, thats where tactics come in, if a single warrior could out damage a healing monk, there would be no point at all in having a healing monk. But a warrior can actually tie up a monk very well, preventing them from healing their team, so that the rest can kill the others more easily.
The damage output is nowhere near as bad as you make out. Warriors do more substained constant damage than any other class.
Casters do spike damage, but heavily rely on power, so in a long battle they become helpless.
Rangers are the odd ball class, as a well built ranger can either be a damage spiker like the caster classes or substained constant damage like a warrior.
Warriors by far have the best AC / damage reduction and as such have a far greater survivability factor in PvE as well.

As for point 3, thats the same for all classes, if you PC gets targeted, you are going to die, unless you have a awesome healler / 2 healer team to back you up.

On the other hand - being a warrior has a pronounced and severe effect on everyone else.

Shutting down a warrior is 'easy' - IF you bring along the skills. So you stuff your skill bar with a slow, and a weakness, and a AC buff, and a damage reducing buff, and a snare.

You have rendered your enemy warrior impotent, and half your skill bar along with it - leaving you much less to deal with the 'real' threats.

You know what happens to a caster that doesnt do something to stop a warrior? They get butchered. And then they get called a noob.

The very presence of a warrior forces the other team to bring skills specifically to reduce that warrior to a non threat. If warriors were useless as you say, then people would truely igore them, but they dont ignore them, they spend effort to disable them.

The fact that disabling casters is a lot harder doesnt make casters more powerful, or warriors weaker - rather it points out that warriors are actually a much greater threat if they are uncountered.

By the way - monks heal damage from elementalists too, they dont just foil warriors.

You really want to be feared by casters? Bring a hammer and learn how to knock lock someone.

Just remember that for every character that can 'pwn' a specific class, there is someone that is 'pwned' by that class, and another class that will 'pwn' the first character.

Because there have been way too many Wa/Mos arount, the fact that people bring powers that make them useless is no surprise at all. But by making the people bring counters to Wa/Mos, the Wa/Mos succeed in forcing those people to leave behind their counters so something else.

Have you looked up many of the elmentalists elite? I can tell you, I don't have energy problem. Never ever. Unless there's a mez draining me continously. I can pretty much cast lightning orb sun up to sun down all day long, as many times as I need to, with nearly zero downtime.

Warriors are tanks, simple as that. You cant have one profession that can tank and do damage at the same time. If so it would negate the need for any other professions because everyone would go warrior seeing as they can take damage and do alot of damage.

Have you tried being a monk in pve? Its almost impossible to survive anything that attacks you simply because your primary role is healing, and seeing as you can only cap 2 attributes then you can either be a healer, protector or smiter. Or just forget divine favour and make half your healing spells pointless.

What about the exhaustion factor, that is lowering your max energy? Not supposed to be a spiteful question, I havnt played ele much and I want to know how to deal with the exhaustion

if you know the true art of using a soloist warrior in pve, you would understand that you must be a tank... there are many skills that a warrior has to complement it while also dealing out damage [gladiator's defence] that doesnt rely on being blinded, weakend, or hexed to hell. if someone attacks you, they pay for it. as for spell casters, its called savage slash; disruption chop; distracing blow; and knockdowns. if you can reach your monster before they start castin those nasty spells, you can just as easily shut them down as they do you. my warrior does fine solo because of this. the point of being a warrior is really to take hits and still dish out consistant damage. though, any build can be shut down, i dont thing warriors are easiest to be shut down, because any warrior can shut you down [or up] just as quickly

also in reply to you bongo, try the invincimonk build, its in the campfire build discussion under less health = good tell me more thread. look at my post, and i own the underworld by myself. never underestimate the power of a monk!

Remember also that any other build's shutdown ability depends on various skill dedicated to class: you can blind, cripple, weaken and pacify a warrior, but you need a complete different set of spells for a caster. Take a warrior: knock down target, interruption shots, adrenaline instead of energy: completely different.
Has anyone thought how much adrenaline does towards preventing energy-denial shutdowns?

This is well said. The simple fact that there are so many warriors around, means that almost everyone will bring specific counters against Warriors. This, of course, leaves them defenseless against other professions, but when (in the random Arenas) you are sure to always be up against a few warriors, bringing anti-warrior skills is only common sense.

The funny thing is, it only takes one or two skills to shut a Warrior down, then you can leave him be for quite somewhile.

However, with a caster, you constantly have to have someone working him. For example, say I'm playing and energy denial Mesmer. I can't leave the monk and forget about him for 20 seconds and expect him to still be doing nothing. But with warrior, you throw on a skill or 2 and they are shutdown. /goodbye balance

You don't have to pack your whole skill bar with warrior skills, just bring one and have your other party member bring another.

You don't have to gear yourself to take out a warrior, you know that was BS the moment you typed it. Ranger's don't bring Pin-Down to stop warriors from running at them, they bring pin-down to stop spellcasters from running. It just so happens that Pin-Down is effective against warriors too because they weren't given passive defensive measurements to do it.

Same with choking gas and distracting shot. Both are used against spellcasters, but they are effective against warriors as well since most warriors have a spellcaster as their secondary.

A pair of Elementalists (2 to 4 of them) can kill a warrior with a few spike damage spells, which just so happens those spike damage spells can also be used to kill other classes effectively.

As I said in my last topic, if any class, especially the ranger, attacks the warrior, it's because that warrior is an easy kill.

No, it doesn't because you haven't provided a logical why. In other words, you fail to provide the "because." analogy. Provide some experience in case scenario happening more than once.

Again, when you "theory fight," you do so by making both equations equal. So if the warrior has a monk then elementalist has a mesmer or ranger. Also a fast casting lightning elementalist can do a lot of damage before the monk can respond.

Pacifism will stop any warrior dead in his tracks, protective spirit & Mark of Protection will reduce damage and finally any monk with a brain will run around.

Warriors have skills to disrupt spellcasters. Their attacks are adrenaline dependent which no other class has and allows for better management of their low base energy.

A secondary monk profession also provides spells to remove conditions and hexes. Healing should be left to the team monks.

I do agree however that another melee-type class should have been introduced. The classes are too heavily caster weighted.

Just an opinion of course.

Hammer Warriors are the best shutdown.

I was going to mention that although my 2 Warrior use swords I do have a hammer ready with 2 melee skills that I can use for both and I have points in attributes mostly in sword but some in hammer.

All you need is a sprint and a nice dmg atatck like Protectors strike, desperation blow, bulls strike etc. and people running from your warriror is a joy.

2-4 spikes? Was the warrior naked or something? Even without an enchantments on him he should have taken more of a beating then that. And that was assuming there was no monks healing him.

I love you invicible spikers by the way. One natures renewal to remove you attunments and precious monk buffs and two warrios can have your whole team on ur arse in no time.

A freindly monk can always remvoe cripled from a warrior. I find it interesting that everyone says warriors are so easy to kill when you are all assuming that they are on their own. Put one warrior against one ele.
Then again we come back to that any class with the right set of skills can beat any class.

If anyone here has a problem with their war let me know and I'd be glad to offer some advice.

To get rid of weakness or blindness, many necro and monk skills can get rid of conditions. To get rid of stances use wild blow (i think). To get rid of enchants use strip enchantment or many other choices. For ward of melee just use skills that can't be evaded, rigor mortis helps too. Kill the casters by dazing them with skullcrack and interrupt all their skills.

I have no problems in PVP with my warrior. You do have a point in that there are many counters to warriors than there are any other class, but you're neglecting 2 things:

1. Warriors can shut down any other class JUST as easily.
2. Conditions/hexes can be removed by a competent supporting team member.

My newest build is a warrior/necromancer. I have been playing with "her" for 2 days, reached level 12 nearly, ran all the way up to Yak's bend without crossing the mission proper, and have completed literally HALF of all missions up there.

I have died twice.

It depends on how you use your abilities, and which one's you equip, and the timing on their use. I recommend some combo's

They suck dude. You're talking to a Mesmer expert who blind warriors for a living with Ineptitude.

All you need is a sprint and a nice dmg atatck like Protectors strike, desperation blow, bulls strike etc. and people running from your warriror is a joy.

Snares ignore sprint and you have to be catious that a mesmer doesn't use you as a energy source.

2-4 spikes? Was the warrior naked or something? Even without an enchantments on him he should have taken more of a beating then that. And that was assuming there was no monks healing him.

Monks can't heal that fast, noob. I don't know if you know this, but there are groups of elementalist in pvp that are coordinated enough to throw spike damage at one target at the same time with lightning orb. I'm pretty you sure you've never witness your monk fall over a split second after the elementalists enter the area. The most dangerous group you can go up against is a group of lightning me/els with two monks.

Secondly, Enchantments can be removed. Necromancers and mesmers are good at that. And while removing enchantments they can also do damage to you or steal energy.

I love you invicible spikers by the way. One natures renewal to remove you attunments and precious monk buffs and two warrios can have your whole team on ur arse in no time.

It almost limits the monks on your team. Mesmer are still somewhat useful even with Nature's Renewal up. I only take two or three hexes and use mostly energy shutdown spells.

A freindly monk can always remvoe cripled from a warrior. I find it interesting that everyone says warriors are so easy to kill when you are all assuming that they are on their own. Put one warrior against one ele.
Then again we come back to that any class with the right set of skills can beat any class.

A monk can't heal you r warrior if he had mesmer hexing him or stealing his energy nor can he heal your warrior if he is pin down with choking gas. You're looking at a fight from a one sided perspective.

And this goes back to what I said, earlier, someone has to open the door of opportunity to a warrior for him to do anything.

1. Sympathetic Visage and Soothing Images say different. With those two spells I can shutdown your ability to gain aderaline. Faintheartedness and Shadow of Fear will slow your attack rate down, making it almost impossible to do any real damage.

2. Your monk is always the first person to be attacked. There is no doubt about that so don't think you'll get an immediate heal.


Monks can remove conditions that are applied directly or indirectly. Necromancers can only remove direct conditions. So if you get blinded as a warrior, the only person who can help you is the monk, if he isn't being taken. I can tell by the sound of some of these post that some of you guys have never been in a real fight with a coordinated team. A coordinated team will go after your monk first.

Wild Blow is useless. Not that it can't get rid of stances, it just that Wild Blow takes away the one thing that makes a warrior useful and that's aderaline. If you use WB, all your aderaline is good, which the move incredible stupid. Secondly, most people who stances are rangers and they only use it to run faster or plant a trap at your feet. You won't know someone is using a stance until after the first two attacks are dodged or blocked.

Strip Enchantment kills you are force to remove multiple enchantments. Descrecate Enchantment is better since it does damage to your enemy and not yourself. Finally, Mesmer enchantment removers take so long recharge that a spellcaster will have already reapply that enchantment.

Rigor Mortis takes two seconds to be cast and any Ranger or Mesmer will tell you that a spell that take more than 1 second to cast is going to get interrupted. Even if you do land the spell, it takes an extra 12 seconds to use it again. The only real skills that can't be evaded by a warrior are Warrior's cunning, Wild Blow, Seeking Blade and pure strike, but PS and Seeking Blade are energy based so they can't keep it up all day. Wild Blow doesn't end spells and Warrior's Cunning takes 60 seconds to recharge to be used again.

You use premade builds don't you?

No lol, I make my own char, and one of the professions i fear worse with my necro are hammer warriors. Dude be a W/N get rid of the blindess. How many people carry around faintheartedness and shadow of fear as a necro too. Maybe just one of them but not both. So there are times when ward of melee and other skills may make you a bit useless, big deal. And 2 secs isn't a long casting time, 95% of the time i cast lingering curse (3 sec) it works. They are focusing on the monks, not you. If you are a W/N no one would really no you are casting rigor mortis cause those rangers and busy with the monks. And for wild blow, you would rather save up your adrenelin when you can't even use it than end a stance!? There are many times when spell casters feel useless too. Umm let me think backfire? Soul Leech? Energy draining skills!? Many interruptions! Every profession can be shutdown, not just warriors. I'm not a warrior, but they aren't as bad as you say they are.

If the mesmer wants to drain me rather then my teams monk that's fine by me.

You're talking to someone who takes random peeps and forms a build to win in the tombs. So I'll thank you not to call me noob. Once again If the eles wanna waste their time spiking me rather then the monk that's fine. A res sig and I'm back. And I'm well awear of the frozen soil trick. Works lovely when we're running nauters renewal. Eles loese their attuments, burn their mana on one or two targets, then get torn apart. Suddenly that frozen soil doesn't seem like the best plan.

The so called Spiker build being the most dangerous makes me laugh. 90% of the time we have this group down in under 2 mins. Once again if you want to waste your time spiking the warrior instead of the monk/casters be my guest.

Not if they are prepared for it. And you think we're going to stop at once natures renewal? That's what Oath shot is for.

So how is it hard for someone to open a "door of opertunity?" How many teams do you see with ONE monk? By your thery you need one mesmer per monk. There are alot of skill combinations that make wars useful and They are usually last on most players kill list. Hell if you think we need a buff be my guest.

EVERY single counter you said had to do with a hex, there are hex removals out there, just use one and get a martyr prot monk on your team, hexes and conditions are gone.

OMG so what if 4 eles can take down a warrior, those 4 eles are now easy targets for the other 7 people on the team.

In the past, teams of wa/mo's and 2-3 monks were the dominant teams.

Since then, while many individual things have changed, the game has remained largely in tact.

Do you mean to tell me that warriors since then were gimped severely to all of a sudden go from "OMG!!!1!1! Skilless wa/mo korean team pwned us. wa/mo's are overpowered!!!!11!" to being incredibly underpowered?

I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that that much has changed since then.

Warriors will have their turn again, I'm sure. It's only a matter of time.

Again, you’ve obviously never been up against a spike damage group. Most Lightning spells are 10 energy and lightning spell can be cast within a 1 second. A Me/E with Fast Casting with a rank 5 to 10 can cast those spells almost instantly and they can get up to 49 to 52 energy without enchantments. This means if they are coordinated enough, they can take out 4 to 5 people within 5 to 10 seconds. You speak of Res Signets…by the time you’re ressed by a signet, at least 2 to 3 people are dead in your group cause it takes 4 seconds to res you with a signet.

Oh by the way, takes 8 second with a monk res to bring a person back to life.

In case where you are a warrior/monk draining your gauge can leave you without the ability to heal yourself unless you chain enchant. Also with the energy, the mesmer steals from you, he can empower his hex spells to use against your monks. So having a non-noob mesmer stealing energy from you is no laughing matter.

Two to three monks (Third being a protection monk), but this doesn’t stop teams from losing. Most of the teammates will aim for one monk and the mesmer will aim for the second. The first monk has 50/50 chance of getting away if no one has a snare. The second monk won’t be so lucky because his hand will be forced because the other monk will need healing. If he doesn’t heal his monk teammate, he’ll die and then they’ll be after him. If he does help him, he’ll also die because he has backfire on him and any attempt to get it off will be interrupted.

Ditto.

Protection Monks are monk who spells mostly consist of enchantments. If you ACTUALLY read the arguements instead of skim through them, you would see a protection monk would have a hard time being useful because his tactic is to use Nature's Renewal. Unless you are Me/Mo and use spells that can be cast under a second, you're gonna have hard time casting spells outside of condition and hex removers. Protection Monks mostly use enchantments.

Fertile season, quickening zepher, natures renewal. your out of mana without the attunements, spells cost more and its really hard to spike 700+ life.

OR

A prot monk, casting protective spirit and rof a couple times.

OR

spellbreaker

OR

Obsidian flesh

and so on and so on.

obviously you hae not gone against a good team.

yea cuz everybody knows that we drain the warriors energy first. gee, when you drain the warrior, im pretty sure the monk will have enough mana to heal him for a bit or till he gets enough mana to remove the hex.


isnt the mesmer busy draining the warrior of his HUGE pool of energy?

You would have to get at least halfway to their base (Most non-noob Els don't move) to do this. As soon as you get close, you'll drop dead.

You can stop theory fighting, apparent you haven't been in any good fights. Just by your random assumption, I can tell you've never been up against a serious team. YOU ARE AWARE IN ALL YOUR GLORY AND WISDOM that the skills you've pointed out are all enchantments, right? Nature's Renewal removes enchantments and Hexes, and make it hard for spellcasters to use hexes or enchantments.

Zephyr only adds 3 points to their 10 for 13 and since if they are mesmer/elementalist they use inspiration spells to steal energy. Lastly, Any elementalist is not going to let those spirit stay there and put them at a disadvantage. Also if you have any casters on your, it will backfire in their faces too.

This during battle, not post battle cause obviously a mesmer only drains when he needs more energy.

Somebody isn't familiar with spirt ranges. They are collosal my friend. Funny that I've been tombsing for months now and never come across a good spike team. Damn I'm lucky.
And in all your glory I'm sure you understand the difference between OR and AND.
So now they're not even spiking players but sprits! EVERYTHING in this game can be counted guru. Spike eles are just flavor of the month and the longer they stay that way the better. Makes things alot easier for us with actually stratagies out their to predict what we'll be up against.

Say what you will, but every class has thier use in PvP. Warriors are no exception.