Monks Charging for their Service - Whats your opinion?

I think its totally rediculous. If my group seeks a monk and there's a monk out there charging money for their services, I'll ask them to join the group and pay them if we win. If we lose, so be it. If we win, he then goes on my ignore list and I don't pay him a cent. Problem solved. If he demands payment before we even start the mission, forget it. What's stopping him from taking my gold and logging off or whatever?

Whether you pay up front or pay after their services, there's a lot of trust going on with this sort of thing. It could be some nice trustworthy person who will keep his end of the bargain, or it could be some hard*** like myself and will screw you over. Personally I don't have enough faith in random people to place that much trust in them.

Supply and demand. >_< I know it sucks, but hey if a stupid sword can go for over 50K, why can't monks charge for service? If people want it bad enough, they'll play for the service...

The really sad part is that they could make more money just playing the game then spamming "Experienced monk willing to help for 1k".

I will say this is it does cost a lot to be a Monk like all the armor thet need this includes 4 scalp armor with runes and the rest can be said as well for all there other armor as some have 3 sets.This would be body,Wanderers and Censor or Judeges.Then there is FOW and Granite Citital.

Nobody is "desperate for healers" in this game though.

The henchies will run every mission with you save for FoW/UW, and plenty of people have beaten the game without a single shred of help from another human player the entire time. Groups who are "desperate for healers" only THINK they are, since the reality is that the henchies will do just fine.

OTOH, who cares if that's what they think? If they're playing the game the same as the rest of us and have come to the conclusion that no AI healer will ever be able to get them through the mission (and haven't realised yet that the presence/absence of one character isn't really make-or-break in this game), then why shouldn't someone come along and offer to do what they want for a fee?

As far as I'm concerned once they WILLINGLY hand over their money to a dial-a-monk here, no one is being taken advantage of.

Besides, how is it sleazy to come to the community before hand in an effort to determine if (a) there would even be any interest in this kind of service, and (b) what kind of prices people would reasonably be willing to pay? I think the OP is clearly demonstrating an interest in doing this 'the right way', it's just going to be an admittedly hard-sell for the most part.

Darksci - I think I would seriously look into how you might give the impression of a much 'sweeter' deal to potential customers, otherwise I have a feeling you won't have much luck with this.

Something like "don't pay if three or more of you die", or "free for any teammates who need more than one rez", etc. Something you think you can handle (you want to be paid, after all), but that still implies a decent risk on your part so they'll be tempted to gamble on you failing.

Those are my thoughts, anyway..

i'd purposefully rush mobs without my armor on...

Frankly, I don't care what you do with your time. If you want to charge other people for playing the same game, fine, but I won't ever be paying anyone for anything, especially not when I see this game as entertainment and not as economic burden.

Now this is a refreshingly open-minded stance, one more people should take an example from. You don't like it, so you don't participate in it, but that doesn't mean you go out and tell other people they are bad/stupid/selfish for doing it. Bravo!

Yes.. well it should come as no surprise that once your own word is worthless, everyone else's is as well.

I think the question monks considering charging for thier services should be asking themselves is:

"What sort of group "needs" a real healer instead of henchmen?"

and:

"Do you think you'll be able to keep that type of group alive?"

Algren, if you read this, thanks for helping me try to spider cap.

On to my opinion of this matter. My first character was a monk, i played through the game as a smiter, until i began to get (for lack of a better word, i'll just not put it here) upon for not healing. Wouldn't matter how many times i said i wasn't a healing monk, i'd get laughed at, or blindly invited to a group that is soon disappointed. So about the time i was doing Villainy i began healing, to my dismay. (i was a noob, so don't say i could have quit, i wasn't sure how much was left, and didn't want to abandon my first char) I hated it terribly, and can honestly say that now that i'm out of the swing of things, i'd need some practice before i could heal again. Mind you, i never charged for my services, though i was offered gold only twice. If someone else did it, i'd be fine with it, i'd only pay if i was desperate, but i'll pay for anything if i'm desperate enough (like that spider i'm trying to cap). Mind you, i've not been so desperate for a group i'd pay for something else, even though my ranger sits now in the Ring of Fire mission, awaiting a chance to find a group, and then to find one that can finish the mission. My gripe against people wanting monks is this:

People assume monks (and only monks) heal.

Then might i ask you, why should a monk have a secondary class? (or the other side, why should any class have monk secondary, besides the rez?) I played a Mo/W, and i used the swordsmanship attribute, along with smites, and healing, so yeah, later game mission were hard to come by. What makes an E/Mo healer worse, or Me/Mo, or any caster type char a worse healer (rangers and warriors sure, but energy seems to me a problem) than a monk primary.

Anyways, not sure where this went or where it came from, i'll try to shorten it up. If someone is so desperate for a healer they will pay, then let them pay, it's not hurting *you* is it? (like that guy in the UW last night, asked me to reinvite him to group, only to say "leaders always pay." guess how long he lasted in my group)

And of course my secondary point: NOT ALL MONKS HEAL, GET OVER IT.

Edit: my only gripe against henches in the later missions are two things, lack of infusion (if that's so, i'm not sure) and a tendency to walk into lava, and not come out (possibly a pathing error, ANet should give henches some sort of environmental awareness, of course, then noone would play with humans)

Look, I can understand both sides, but there's nothing stopping someone from asking for payment in order to help you through a mission. If someone says "Available N/W Guide for this mission: 1Kgp", and someone thinks that paying someone 1Kgp to do the mission is reasonable for any reason (wants to see a different way to do it, needs help from someone with TS, has tried, and failed a bunch of times with PUGs, whatever), then no one loses (assuming things went as planned, but we're talking concepts here).

Most people are not willing to pay for a guide, or escort, or whatever the mercenaries are calling themselves simply because they want to keep their own money, and figure it out for themselves. That's fine. There's no need to pay, as you'll probably find people to play with.

Monks can do this more often since there aren't as many of them in the game for various reasons (not the least of which is missing most of the game looking at life bars gets old), and they make great scapegoats since people have learned to rely on healing for too much of the game. Any other profession can do it too, but they are far less respected for whatever reason, or far too many in number (Rangers, saddly have both problems right now).

The short of it is, if you don't agree with payment for participation in a mission... don't pay. Please don't knock the guys doing it as if they're doing something wrong, or reprehensible. That's a weak argument in favor of forced socialism(?), and the kind of argument hippies make when someone makes money that they can't.

I've reached upto Dunes, Hereo's Audicence etc areas, explored a little, and cleared most of the desert area outside of Oasis including boss mobs with henchmen. I am sure there are many missions that can't be done without skilled players. but I can say I can go pretty far into the game without paying for monk healing.

a lot of time I am better off with henchmens than with bad players.

lol Vali....that was definately the wierdest trip into the underworld I've ever been on....but atleast we established that 3 rangers can't fair too well in the UW..

we'll try to cap it again soon.

btw: I think I showed you last night that I have more than enough energy to be a primary healer everyone calls me a noob for carrying around a staff...until they realize that my ranger has over 50 energy

[email protected] people actually paying.


things like this is why i created a monk 2 days ago. im sick of stupid antics like this and i was tired of waiting around for a monk in the shiverpeaks to cap my stupid skills....btw i'll probably be in the shiverpeaks in the next couple of days if anybody needs any monk assistance...im not great but im "ok"

The point I'm trying to make is this:

1. What sort of group is so desperate for monks that they are willing to pay?
(I'll fill in the answers this time)
That's right, Bad Ones. Good ones are confident in thier ability to rely on henches instead.

2. Can the best monk in the world keep groups like this alive?
No.

3. What happens to your agreement when some idiot gets the team wiped?
"OMG OMG HEAL HEAL! RES RES RES! WE PAYED FOR YOUR SERVICES WHY DIDN'T HEAL NOOB!" Try explaining in those circumstances why agroing half the map is a bad idea.

4. What's the result of charging for your monk services?
Noob-sitting for the rest of your GW days.

Pay a monk for healing ? When they already get their share of money and drops ? No thanks, I'll take a henchie.

Too bad there wasn't a poll to see who would pay and who wouldn't. I wouldn't pay, but then I'm my own monk and I have friends who are monks too and we don't charge each other. We play as the game intended, as a team. Anyone who doesn't, we boot from the team.

LOL! Thanks Algren, for demonstrating so succinctly why one must always be very careful when negotiating a contract

To protect themselves from shenanigans, the dial-a-monk would obviously want to make it very clear that you'd only get one warning about doing things they deemed to be 'dangerous to your health' before they simply leave the party (pretty common policy even for the freebie-monks out there).

If I needed a player controlled monk to finish a mission and none were readily available for an hour or two I might get desperate enough to pay for a monk's service. However, this monk is not going to make the team. If the team itself is incapable of working together well then no monk no matter how good can save it and thus was doomed from the start.

I would also like to add that I have never NEEDED a player controlled monk as my n/e and when nobody was fortunate enough to realize my potential I simply ran the mission with henchmen. Until thunderhead keep before they infused the henchmen, sorry mursaat owned them nonstop. Which is why I created my second character.

My second character turned primary is a mo/me which I enjoy playing a great deal more as my abilities are utilized more often and with much more recognition. I have been offered payment one time to join a group and often ignore requests offering to pay for a monk. I find these groups are indeed doomed to fail if no monk's will join them for the sake of running a mission/fow/uw raid. In addition, I am not an automatic "win" button, I would not personally feel comfortable charging a fee for a mission and then some goon blowing it by aggroing too many mobs even IF it wasn't my fault. However, as a monk I fully believe that I am allowed to be selective about which groups I will join. There is no way I will waste my time with a group full of "extreme example" death necros who all want to raise minions.

My time as a monk also tells me that for missions at my level a monk does not automatically mean "we win" any number of things can go wrong. Bad groups can't make it past the first mission in FoW. Good groups can, granted as a protection monk taking away half the enemy damage for the entire mission (7 life bonds at all times) I increase the chances a great deal but I still need competent teammates.

As for comparisons to necros/rangers/mesmers and the like, people need to stop kidding themselves. Monks are in a different league than these guys. 3 and 4 man UW runs do not include necros/mesmers/rangers because they are not essential. Yes, they all "can" contribute but will not be missed if they are not there. I notice when the aataxe are blind from a dust trap because it makes my job 70% easier on the whole but I don't NEED that help. Hell, even a war isn't essential if the team is good enough or have a build properly thought out to handle the mobs. I believe a monk posted his SOLO UW build not but a few days ago. Monks ARE unique in their ability to mitigate damage AND heal it in short order, sorry but thats the reality of the game at the moment.

I don't charge for "monking," and I always pay my way for UW/FoW, with the exception of a host paying for everyone. In that case, if I get an exceptional drop, I'll then offer to pay the 1p fee to the host.

I don't play the game to accumulate cartoon money (but if some other monk gets pleasure from charging, good for them)... that just means I'll get a group all that faster.

Equally important, I don't want my monk's name to get screwed for taking money and then wiping out because I lagged or something equally stoopud. Sure, I might get a bad rep for saying "I like chocolate cake" in group, or "I have cheeseits in my loincloth." I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'm not gunna get one for taking money and then having to read this over some corpse's head: "refund noob u suk!"

But I'm also the player that sells all my drops to merchants (yeah, I've even sold ecto to merchants...) because I don't want to waste my game time mapping around to hook up with a buyer--I'd rather be in a group doing something.

Lastly, is there a correlation between the WTS!!11 people and the Monk LFG 25p charge up front? I dunno.

I would never pay for any member to join my group ever. Those i see advetising themselves i make a note of, and never party with them again.

I can only encourage others to do the same....this is ridiculous!

If you think about the nature of the missions, there are some times when the healing efforts should be devoted to keeping a mission NPC alive over healing another player. I'm thinking of the Thunderhead mission here.

Additionally, if you play in a group that makes a purposeful suicide run (to give another character the chance to make a goal), the human healer can change their tactics to cover that strategy, unlike what the NPC healer will do.

An incident happened to me last night - I was in the desert and saw a person offering free running to Elona and Destiny. I was impressed with their abilities and made a voluntary, private donation. It was a great way of saying "YOU ROCK" and I felt good about it. In the future, I probably will do more of this, especially to help the most valued players in a team, be they a nuker, mesmer, or whatnot.

My opinion is this:

There are two conceivable situations here:
1) You have completed the game, and are willing to lend your assistance and expertise to lower-level folks, at a price.
2) You are still going through the game.

In situation 1, I have no problem with anyone charging for their services. They are, in theory, providing something more than their sword-arm or spells to the group: experience and knowledge. Those are definitely marketable. If, however, all you do is hang back and heal, then you'd get no money from me. That level 20, and the knowledge that comes with it, is more valuable in my opinion than the size of your Healing Orison.

In situation 2, I have a huge problem. Unless you are undeniably the best at what you do, there is absolutely no reason, aside from ego, to asssume that you are more valuable to the party than is any other member. You are a support character, just like the other 5-7 members of the party. For every quest/mission/exploratory outing, there is a minimum viable party size in order to accomplish it with minimal casualties. If, from your perspective, that party size is anything other than 1 (meaning you can absolutely do it solo), then you have no business charging for your services. Why? Because you need the other folks every bit as much as they need you. That, and you already get a share of loot and experience, just like everyone else.

In essence, unless you are the Tuskeegee Airmen of Guild Wars, and can guarantee that nobody dies under your care -- ever -- no money for you, at least not from me. Because "adequate" can be found anywhere, including, as mentioned, with the henchwomen.

And if you do find enough folks who are willing to pay anyway, it will just be a matter of time until everyone starts charging for their services, with elementalists then warriors up next (of course, warriors already charge for various "runs", so maybe the Monks are just following their lead), followed by the less-used classes (once their value begins to be better known). At which point, the whole thing becomes silly. Of course, I think it's silly now.

I see a theme here. Most people here haven't made it to the last 4-5 missions. I agree that henchie healers can get you thru most of the game, but those last few missions, no chance. And that's where I realized the true deficiency of monks in this game. It was painful sitting around for 30-60 minutes waiting for a monk, then not even winning the mission first try (or second or third). So I can see why some of you would never pay, having not gotten there yet. But I can promise you that when you do, either you'll spend a LOT of time waiting, or change your view on paying a small fee for a monks help.

I'm a monk that likes to help people; I'm not into soloing (farming). Therefore, I don't have a nice steady stream of income -- and frankly, after helping 2-3 groups through a given area, my drops suck. Further, I bring much more than just healing, I bring experience. Frankly, I've been seriously considering charging a nominal fee (1 platinum per run) just like you pay when entering the Underworld. Perhaps if people have paid cash they might even behave better.

What a great idea. I think I'm going to try it. I could really use the cash.

i've done through thunderhead keep with henchie monks...i refuse to pay a monk to do his job..it's not going to happen. The henchwoman works perfectly fine for my needs...I'll heal myself.

The groups of terrible players who have been stuck trying to beat Thirsty River for a week. The kinds of players that single-handedly destroy parties through their own incompetence.


Yes. Well, to a degree. Get a full group of complete morons and no, there's no way I'll be able to keep them all alive. I will be able to res them over and over again until they get the point, though. I've managed to keep a group of complete newbs alive against the monk boss in Thirsty River for over half an hour. The guy in Ascalon City armor was at -60% DP and *knew* he wasn't going to get heals, because I wasn't going to waste my energy on him. We won anyway when the boss decided to suicide.


Why can Monks charge and not the other classes? Because Monk is the *only* class that can effectively cover up another player's incompetence. You could have the best Warrior on your team, but that isn't going to help anyone if some dork in starter armor decides to run up front and pull aggro everywhere. A nuker? Please. But a good Monk can keep even the worst team alive long enough for them to experience some success. Hence the 'need' for Monks - people simply are not good enough to beat the PvE themselves.

Peace,
-CxE

Well Algren maybe you'll get lucky and find a monk for the 'fire island' missions without waiting long. Maybe not, and you'll take alecia. Man, I how I wish this game had some kinda spectator mode so that you could watch people try to go thru those missions with henchies. That would be a good laugh.

And as for someone noted above, it's much more than healing. It's experience and knowledge of how the mission goes. Which, actually I think is much more valuable than the healing. So, technically I guess a warrior or ranger or somebody that has done the mission many times could charge for services. But they don't have the added value of being 'rare' as monks are for those missions.

I didn't bother reading through the 3 pages of messages.... but like anyone else... I've got my own opinion. I've got a level 20 Primary warrior who now has all secondary professions.

Also realized that there was a real lack of high level monks or monks that weren't charging 4 or 5 plat to join a party. So I started one.

He's about level 15 now.... and I've already realized what happens during the course of events that causes some monks to start charging for services.

Now the following is just MY outlook.... disagree if ya like, I don't care... it's just one Monks opinion.

I've only got this character as far as Sanctum Cay.... and already I'm sick of the demanding, insulting and stupid characters I've partied with.

Dead E/Me says: "Come on monk, do your job damnit!"
My thoughts are: a.) if the Elementalist wants to run in tank... he's too stupid to live and i'm not going to waste mana on him that I need to focus on the two tanks
b.) Your in no position to give me orders

Dead Nec/war says: "some healer you are... next time pay attention!"
My thoughts are: A.) I was paying attention, but due to uncontrolable laughter watching you trying to tank I couldn't help ya.
B.) If the necro wants to tank run in and tank... he's too stupid to live and i'm not going to waste mana on him that i need to focus on the two tanks.
C.) If 7 health regen bars and heal other can't keep you alive long enough for the skill to recycle... your too weak to tank... perhaps you should run back to the main group next time?

Dead party leader says: "Your the worst monk I've seen.. you suck! now f*cking rez me!"
My thoughts are: A.) This is the first party I've been in where the leader is dumb enough to bring 6 warriors, 1 monk and a ranger....
B.) Vengence is fun to cast right about now when you think I've cast rez

The list goes on and on.....

Don't get me wrong... I've partied with plenty of mature and polite people. It's the mouthy, demanding, disrespectful and rude people that ruin it...

So yeah.... If a party full of ignorant, impolite and mouthy punks wants a monk for their party... chances are you'll be paying for it. I read someone say they don't aggree with people charging money for doing their job....
Well guess what makes a job a job..... when you get payed...

I reserve charity for those rare party's filled with polite, thoughtfull and mature people.

I think it is BS, I would never pay anyone for any service. I also will write down their name and spread it around to my Guild mates and other friends to make sure that person is never used on a team that I or my friends are on.

But then again it has to do with the screwed up economy, peeps paying way to much for cool looking weps that do not more damage than a standard one that has the same damage content. Peeps paying 15k for armour that is no better than 1.5 armour it only looks cooler...

It will continue that some stupid peeps pays for these services or whatever, till the economy is fixed. 15k armour should have more protection than 1.5 armour, Rare and Gold weps should have a higher damage content...not just cooler looking. Those that charge for their services, more power to then if they can get away with it. But, I will never pay nor neither will my friends get scammed by these players.

Man.. Some of you people really need to look up the meaning of the words "scam", "scammer", "scamming" and "scammed".

I think the concept of paying someone to play the game is horrible. I realize there's a shortage of competent monks later in the game, but come on guys. A monk's job is to keep people alive. Do Mesmer's have the right to charge everytime they save your ass by disrupting that meteor spell? Or should an elementalist get paid for every second they bombard the enemies with a fire storm? Someone asking to be paid to do what their character was made to do is a terrible idea, in my opinion. So to answer your question, no, I do not agree with paying someone to quest with, for the previously stated reasons. What ever happened to playing a game for fun?

What if it's fun for him to make his money by taking others through missions they aren't able to complete?

What if it's fun for the players who pay him to complete the missions?

So in other words: what if everyone involved in the transaction is having fun?

While Im not a fan of the charge-for-service deal....I have to disagree with some things that are being said.

First of all, the people talking about how "all classes serve a purpose, and should charge...blah blah blah"

No actually they dont. Im sure Im going to be flamed for this, but every mission in the game can easily be beaten without a mesmer, necro, or especially ranger. While the missions certainly can be beaten with any assortment of players as long as they are good, its much more difficult if you are lacking a monk, good area of effect damage, and tanks. Since nobody wants to play healing monks or warriors because they are arguably the boringest characters, yet make the base of most parties, that automatically puts a premium on them.

Characters like Rangers on the other hand, have no real need and serve no direct purpose, outside of designated puller. They dont do the damage of an elementalist, or can heal unless they carry a monk secondary, and arent particuliarly adept tanks. So at the end of the day, why wouldnt you be better off with an additional elementalist? Even though this fact remains, about 50% of characters I see are Rangers.

That is why a ranger doesnt deserve to be paid for anything. A monk, because they chose to play a boring character that nobody else wants to, and also simutaneously serve as a building block to most teams, has elevated themselves to a premium level, while overused next to useless PvE classes like Rangers are a dime a dozen. Its supply and demand in its most raw form.

Here's another angle, I was waiting at Hell's Precipice with my Wa/Mo last night, not getting any takers when someone else leading a group OFFERED 10k gold to any monk that could get them through the mission. Now 10k gold is nothing to sneeze at so I immediately changed accounts and characters and volunteered, the caveat was that payment would be make upon successful completion of the mission, which I had no problem with for such a large sum, I and one other monk took up the offer as they were looking for 2 monks. Yes, there were deaths, but not once did we have to restart the mission, except the first time when someone dropped and we needed to replace them(obviously not the monks fault). Would I actually charge for my services, I have considered it, but I want to get my other characters through the game before going that route. I only took this one opportunity as the group leader was OFFERING to pay 10k, I didn't ask for that amount nor did the other monk, we completed the mission and got our payment, the group was satisfied, I was satisfied.

OUTRAGEOUS!!! I can't believe you would scam them like that. We must put a stop to this at once!

I have completed the game 3 times now & I still have yet to pay anyone, let alone a Monk, for doing what they are supposed to.

As for henchies not being viable for endgame missions... incorrect. I have used henchies & completed said missions. Pic

Nice pic, I beat the game the other day with no one in my party besides myself and the henchies. I had first gone out just to skill cap but then ended up doing the whole thing for fun. Had I know that this conversation was coming up I would have taken a screen cap of it.

-Diomedes

Oooo 10K is quite alot lol. i was only thinking about charging like 200gp per head.