Monks Charging for their Service - Whats your opinion?

No.

I would not party with anyone who charged the team to participate normally, whether if it was 10k or 100g. That player's interest in being in our party is motivated by self-serving interests and greed, and they more than likely have an over-inflated sense of their importance in a group... so I would have zero interest in partying with them.

No, they will be worst ... not better and you know why?

Because they paid you and so expect you to be able to heal party for 500 hp every second, they expect you to complete the mission solo and have everyone having gold drops.

If they act bad because you are the monk and not keeping then alive imagine what they will act as they are now paying you to keep then alive and they are being killed.

I have a monk and would never charge others its the same ole thing what goes around comes around there are times I need a monk for my other chars its only giving back to others what they have given to me for free because of the nature of the game is to rely on team work it goes for pvp
If someone is only doing it for gold then their head is in the wrong space for getting enjoyment out of being a team member knowing ur part counts its not because ur out to make a quick buck
There is no way u can tell if they are any good and from what I have seen some are not very good at being a monk rather they are using the need of others to get gold.
Comes across as selfish and goes against the whole concept of the team spirit
Its a buzz having a great team and winning knowing it was done together willingly

Ignorance.. friend.. ignorance.

Now, don't get me wrong, my favorite character is my echo ele, and I really enjoy those moments when mobs are bombarded so heavily by my meteors that they can barely raise their heads

But even in the brief time I spent on my ranger, I certainly know they are a lot more than just a puller, and they certainly dish a lot more damage that warriors, and have the ability to invoke EVERY condition in the game on a target.

Poisoned, crippled, dazed, blinded.... the list goes... whatever you need, only the ranger has them all.

Oh, and do you know that no other spell in the game heals more than healing spring for its mana cost?

Rangers certainly have their place, and I admit they really take a lot more skill to be played well.

hmm.. who actually thinks its fun staring at health bars?.. you know how difficult it is keeping teams alive in situations. I myself have debated charging.. yes I play primary monk..

It's the only character I play basically for a few reasons..

MY TEAM you all spout out about is my GUILD... I play a Monk for my team, because basically there is a real shortage of monks.

No I don't love it. It was a sacrafice I made.

Basically everyone wants to just run around hit this cast spell at that.. woohoo its fun.. no real responsablity..

Any moron warrior can tank.. Any moron caster can hit meteor/firestorm/fireball and whatever else. Any Idiot Ranger can pull a mob and stand back clicking weapons with no worries in the word..

You wanna know why?.. Cause there's a dang MONK keeping you all alive WITH 100 times more responsability then any other person on the team.

I haven't ever charged, and don't plan on it, but all you warriors and other classes saying blah blah blah.. I wouldn't pay someone. that's fine, but before you bitch about a monk charging.. you can't cause you are not even in the same universe as a monk with his/her part of the group.

thanks for your time ;p

I enjoy playing a monk because of the added responsibility. My reward is seeing whatever team I'm helping complete their mission/quest. I've had people afterwards offer me up to 5k sometimes but I always refused. Being a monk should not be a chore. If someone doesn't like monking then they should not be a monk. Let there be a monk shortage, it might make players realize that they should do a better job of keeping themselves alive and not just assume there is a monk nearby to always come to the rescue.

I have one thing to say on this thread, if anyone wants a free monk for any mission before ascention, try PSTing Orisin of Peace (yeah, me).

Those that ask for payment for being a group's monk are greedy and usually suck. Not all, mind you, are bad, but the general consensus is that most who charge for something that could be done for free is just encouraging others to scam.

If being a monk is just so darn awful and hard, why don't you ask for someone with a build to augment your "Problems with healing effectively". Ask for someone to do Protection if they can, ask for a Necro to get you some extra Energy Regen pips, ask for anything to help your current situation! This way you do not have to rely on just one or two people to get everything done. If you have a class that can make your job easier, then there will not be anymore of this obsurd charging for a needed game mechanic.

Seeing this, I might as well charge people for bringing me along to throw up wards and keep tanks and casters alike from taking damage, cuz without me, you have to do a whole lot more healing monks!

Being a monk IS a chore.. everybody blames the monk, it is a fact.

I really hate being a monk in fissure, you can tell how good a group is 5 mins into the game when warriors keep attacking when they have spiteful spirit and wipe out half the party. It is also no surprise when I see the other monk quit at that point, what am I to do? That party is bunked, I'm merely wasting my time delaying the inevitable by staying.

Besides nowadays monks are probably busy farming griffons and smites all by themselves, no hassles and no insults to put up with!

If you want good healing, you gotta make it worth their while, else for that time they are spending they could probably have gotten a storm bow, or globs of ectos, ALL BY THEMSELVES. That's right people, they do not need to put up with your insults and abuses, EVERYONE ELSE is redundant, they are the only ones who can do it themselves.

If I have to put it that way, yes, monks are the ONLY class that is truly above all others in terms of value to a party. Next time before you are about to go "Noob monk! Rez me!", remember this, YOU are INVITED by the monk to come along, nobody needs you there.

to me it doesn't seem right to charge ppl at all to run you thru just a computer game. with that said, i guess it wouldn't really matter cuz by the time you're in the later parts of the game you should have enuff gold on-hand that you shouldn't have to worry about running out i guess.

I agree with that, generik, but there are people who let you do your thing and respect how a Monk operates. I know it is tough to be a monk and be expected to heal everyone, no matter how stupid they are; however, I will never pay a monk to come with my party, no matter how good they are, because I have my build set-up purposefully to aleviate the amount of healing that a Monk has to do. Ward against melee, Monk has to do 50% less healing for 19 seconds on the tank and the spell is back up a second later; Protective spirit, even if the attack gets thru to the tank or whoever, it is now brough down to 40-60 damage which is easily managable; Aegis, if a monk is using this spell as well, the effects can be maintained all throughout a fight instead of just half of it. That being said, I also interrupt AoE, spike, and can spam damage if the team is in need.

If a Monk deems that they still need to be payed even after I, as a party leader or as a player, have geared myself or the team so that the monk's job is a walk in the park, then they simply aren't worth it.

I enjoy playing a monk its different to the other classes ok its a pain sometimes keeping some twits alive and only looking at the health bar looking up to see if any drops were for you but all in all I wouldnt be a monk if I couldnt handle it
When I've had enough with that go off exploring grab some henches and go into some hard areas then have some fun it provides a change and with my other chars I know what to do to help the monk and what to expect from a good monk

heres a situation :

I've been sitting around in a mission area spouting "Group Needs Monk 1 spot left" or some such for coming up on 1/2 an hour, sick of waiting for the ever elusive monk, I decide stuff it, and check my friends list to see if that monk-for-hire is available. he is, he arrives, he joins up, I pay him, and were off to do the mission


in other words, HELL YES, i'd pay a monk (if I know hes good. I'd trial him out, everyone deserves a chance)

I dont know about you lot, but how many times have you suggested "Just take a healer henchie" and people have said "no, lets get a real monk"

in that situation, 90% of the time, no monk is around, so you take the henchies, only to have alesia go tank a jade armor and die, then with no healing you all die.

the only way if u have to pay someone is if your played with them before and have them on ur friends list and if they are willing to do it for you then yes that way u know you are paying for someone who knows what they are doing
but taking the risk of some stupid little twit making a monk for the purpose of making gold out of others when they dont know what they are doing makes me see red

I'm a N/Mo20 and spend probably 75% of my time in parties bumping our Monk's energy regen, keeping them alive when they are in trouble, and making their job easier by casting wells which keep the warriors in good health. The rest of the time I'm either raising fiends/horrors for extra meat shields, or support healing the rest of the party.

Yet does the Monk ever heal me after I give them energy, at the expense of my own health? No... in most groups, I'm the first one they let die because I'm not "important" to the group. Do they ever say "thank you" for the help? No... I've only ever had ONE monk who openly appreciated, or even acknowledged, my assistance.

The best monks I've partied with were quiet ones, who did such a great job that no one really noticed. The one I mentioned above even recognized the type of support healing I could do, and concsiously got into a rhythm with me so that we weren't stepping on each other's toes with our spells, yet complementing each other. All of the really great monks I've encountered were humble, friendly and seemed to understand that everyone mattered in a succesful party. Parties with these type of monks tend to be really tight, have great teamwork and are generally a lot of fun to be in.

The worst monks I've partied with are the ones who talk a lot, about how important they are, or start bossing others around with threats to not heal if so and so doesn't get in line and do it their way. They generally have very poor rhythm with their spells, are willing to let others die fairly easily, and are so myopically enthralled with their own narcissitic fantasy of being the "important member" that they fail to acknowledge or appreciate the role every other member is playing to help make the party a cohesive unit. Parties with these type of monks tend to dissolve into an "every person for themself" mentality, with very little thought to teamwork and cooperative strategy.

I was in a party with one of the latter just last night, where the monk thought he was the only necessary person on the team (even going so far as to say it at one point), and threatened to not heal anyone but the tank if they aggro'd anything, no less than five minutes into the mission. They ran in front ahead of everyone and barked orders to everybody, often talking down to the rest of us as if we were noobs.... and frankly, he was one of the worst healers I've ever partied with. Our entrie party died at least five times over, and he still went on about how it was all our fault, and if we'd just do it right then no one would die. However, I happen to know for a fact that I was doing 50% of the healing that whole time.

At one point, I just stopped Bip'ing and healing him for a bit... he died in under 20 seconds, with a steady stream of curses in all caps.

Charge for your services if you want to... but then you better be really, freaking good at playing a monk - and not in your own mind, but for real. I however will save my Bips for Alesia... she does great, if you treat her right.

Id take the risk once.

but regarldess, the fact that he has started the last thread to find the best way to go about this shows me hes not some "stupid little twit"



that train of thought is WAY worse than someone who charges for services, you are presuming that he is an idiot who knows nothing about what he is doing and is only out to make money.

My 2 cents on this is-
If monks are so wanted they should have no problem getting a party... they should be happy with that.

If you don't like looking at health bars and think it's too much work.... pic another class.

I'd rather have alesia than someone who charges, pardon me when I laugh in your face if you ask for money.

...but if you wanna charge, hey go for it.

not talking about the thread author I'm talking about those who have no idea about what it is to be a monk and their sole purpose is to farm gold off other players
why on earth would I call him a "stupid little twit"?
dont flame me if you cant read

And why exactly does anyone need that in PvE? Id much rather have an elementalist hitting 10 different enemies for 60 each a second then you shooting your little poison arrows at them one at a time. Id much rather have an extra meat shield standing infront of me, then another "stand in the back with the casters, but not nearly have the effect of those casters" character.

A good ranger is annoying in PvP, but Ive yet to see any real use for them in PvE. Ive never once been in a party where the ranger has meant so much that they couldnt have easily been replaced by just about anything else, save for a mesmer, and there would have been a positive benefit.

Both mesmers and rangers can provide assistance in a group, I wont deny that, and they have their unique uses, but what I am saying is that either one of them has nowhere near the value of a monk, elementalist, warrior or even a necro in a PvE group. That is why noone is ever spamming "need a ranger for group". So when noone really needs a ranger, and there is tons of them, I think they are overwhelmingly the most popular character class, why should they be paid for their services? How can they even ask for payment for their services when there are 22 more rangers standing around begging to get in a mission party? Like I said, its raw supply and demand. Monks are by far the most useful character, and also the character most people want no business playing because of the boring, mundaneness of being one. In the same way people are willing to pay a million bucks for a Honus Wagner baseball card, but not 15 cents for a 1990 Donruss Rafael Belliard baseball card, monks are elevated to premium status. While it may not be ethical to run about charging for a classes services, if the market bares it, then obivously their services are worth that much of a premium if measured in gold.

A monk who would request payment for doing what he's supposed to be doing isn't worth my time (or money). I'd rather take the monk henchmen than a monk who would ask for 1k to come along. It's people like that, and droknar runners, everyone who "charges" for what their class is capable of that's ruining the economy. You've got an assload of rich monks and warriors, and near poor everyone else. It's stupid when people can make all the money they'd need in-game just by saying "Hey, I'll only come with you for 3k" Yeah, sorry, but any monk who'd charge for his services...problably isn't that great anyway. At least no better than any other monk around.

I honestly can't stand people who stand in town for 20 minutes going "group of 6 need two monks for mission/bonus!" I mean...honestly, I've NEVER had a problem on any of my characters just using henchmen for the missions, EXCEPT abbadon's mouth. Other than that, monk henchmen were just fine, if not better, than most monks I found. It's stupid really.

Yeah people in real-life hospitals get payed.

But so do soldiers.

And...everyone else who has a profession.

Well simply put people can do what they want and there is nothing i can do to stop it, all i can do is ignore it, but i think people who "sell" themselves online is very wrong, and if monks do it pretty soon every will think they can and the whole game will become "R/E for sale 2k" "E/Me will nuke for 1.4k" "W/Mo enjoys long walks on the beach and finnishing the mission 1k" and so on

but if monks do it im guessing that some people buy in it so maybe if people stop giving in to monks the monks will stop

I play a Mo/E, and people thought I played my Healer in an above satisfactory way. However, I disdain Monks charging for their services, as I believe that it gives us a bad name.

Just think about who Healer Monks represent in this game: Dwayna, the goddess of Healing. Would you, in true RPG fashion, think that she who heals just out of pure benevolence would approve of a worshipper who demanded money before he consented to help people with his deity-given powers? I think not.

This is probably drifting off topic significantly.

Any mission in PvE can be beaten with any combination of classes + 1-2 decent monks, so its not rangers and mesmers that are the issue here. The Warrior, Elementalist, Monk triptych of Uber l337ness is just what you get when people think at the lowest common denominator of "Damage, tank and heal" and completely neglect utility. I gurantee you there;d be a lot less whining at say, the Thirsty River monk boss, if people simply picked up a mesmer for that mission.

The insistence on having Warriors to tank has always especially amused me, as frankly, 75% of Warriors are terrible at it. Case and point: If the mobs are running by you and attacking the monk/casters, you're probably not tanking well. Those three classes are the easiest to play in Guild Wars, at least in their PvE incarnations. Even the cognitive-impaired can master the 'group things together and blow them up' aspect of an Elementalist.

As for Rangers, yes, it is a popular class, and yes it is often played badly, but then again, thats because most people aren't good players of classes deeper than say, Warriors. Don't blame the class for the general weaknesses of the game's playerbase. I've played, and seen, some very effective Rangers prove themselves as useful if not moreso than anyone else on the team.

Lastly, a good Ranger in PvP isn't just annoying: He's terrifying. There's no better way to panic a monk then to land 7 consecutive interrupts on him in the heat of battle. Even a Mesmer can't match a ranger for sheer interrupt potential if done right. (Though Mesmers remain the undisputed lords of countering/metaing against opponents).

One plus for rangers in PvP is if you get three or four guys with Ranger somewhere in their profession, whether primary or secondary, they can lay down some NASTY spirit combos before they get to work shutting down monks and ele's. It just utterly sucks when you try to rez someone, but that Frozen Soil keeps you from doing it, or when you have ten energy and you can't cast that Word of Healing or Healing Breeze because of that Quickening Zephyr (if I recall the correct Spirit there) boots the cost up to 13 or 14 while that Mesmer keeps slapping energy drainers on you.

No class is worthless, especially in the hands of someone who has decent knowledge on how to use the class.

Ok, back to the original topic/question posed. If you *DID* pay a monk for his/her services, how much would that be?

That is a tough one. I have had people pay me in the past if they felt I did a good job. (Please note, I never asked for payment, I guess they just felt sorry for the poor naked monk.) The amounts have been from 200g to 3p. Normally, of course, I refuse. (But you know in a support role the drops just don't seem to come as often.)

Case in point. The fun-run to Glint. I had a really nice group who felt that I was a definite benefit, so three of them (from the same guild) gave me 1k each. I refused (like all guilt ridden monks), but they were persistent and kind, so I accepted. So, did I charge them? No, not in the basest of methods, but I was paid. Would I have done it without the plat? Yea, without a doubt. Good PUG's are like a box of really good chocolate, you just don't ever want it to end.

What Would I pay? Well zero comes to mind. If I were all about the "run" I might feel differently. It might be a worthwhile service to pay an experienced character to ensure success on a specific mission. I just can't bring myself to do it. (Pay or Charge) I play to play. Sometime it's good and sometimes it's bad, but even when it's bad, it's still better than work.

Wow, from reading this thread, clearly there are alot of people who do not understand the game well. Basically right now everything revolves around seeing numbers appear on the screen. People want warriors to absorb damage, people want elementalists to deal damage, and people want monks to heal damage. However, if you have a good mesmer stopping enemy casters from using their damaging spells and breaking all the hexes that are put on your group, you won't need as much healing. If you have a mesmer that disables the enemy healer you won't need as much damage. And don't forget that using shatter hex on a warrior tank is essentially casting a powerful AoE spell (116 damage to all at level 12) and a damage prevention spell. Based on the current way people are playing, yes the Ranger is less useful and the Mesmer is less useful, however, it is solely do to massive ignorance that goes around. If the monk as a primary profession were removed from the game everybody with half a brain will be able to adapt and get through the missions fine. Rangers and mesmers make enemy casters useless and any warrior who actually plays a tank build (surprisingly tanks probably make up less than 5% of the warrior population) will laugh off arrows and melee attacks (note the griffon run where a single warrior can tank 40 monsters indefinitely, warriors can be made virtually immune to everything except spells).

The way people play right now is to deal damage faster than you recieve and try to stay alive for more than 10 seconds with two monks spamming away all their energy. If the battle lasts longer people die. I find it extremely annoying when I see a warrior's health decrease when he tries to tank, thinking that the two extra attack skills (rather than some tanking skills) he has is actually making a huge difference in the battle. If people would stop making characters that have no form of healing and no form of damage reduction (+ armor, stances, etc) then they will forever depend on monks and may even resort to paying for them. Every mission can be just as easily beaten without a monk if everybody makes builds assuming they cannot find one. Having 2 monks that do no damage and 6 others that do decent damage isn't the fastest nor the most efficent way to complete a mission.

I am Canadian and health care is free for the most part. My monk does not believe in charging for services, but a tip is appreciated once in a while. I do go out of my way to help people and thus have people message me asking for help with missions.

Yeah, but the doctors get paid a premium because their profession is difficult to achieve and complete, therefore making them a rarer commodity. Common soldiers on the other hand, are a dime a dozen, dont need extensive training or skills, and are easily replaceable. This is an easy paradox of Guild Wars.

Nobody wants to be a monk, therefore there are few ones around, much like doctors, and their skills are highly in demand, much like doctors. This gives them a premium value in the economy, even if they dont charge, monks have the distinct ability over any other class to pick and choose exactly who they go with.

Id hate to pick on rangers again, but there are 100's of them around, 20-30 at every mission spot, or atleast 3-5 times the amount of the next class. So, like the common soldier, there are a great deal of people who can do their particuliar skill. Furthermore, because their skill is so common, and 1 ranger can be replaced by any one of the other 20 or so standing around, and on top of that, they dont bring a great deal of unique ability to a group, rangers command absolutely no premium whatsoever, and tend to be the most frequent spammers of "R/Mes LFG for Mission". How could you say their skills are worth anything at that point? Especially when there is a boatload of other rangers willing to pay money just to be part of a mission group?


A majority of people in this game, and all games like it, want to be one of two characters, one that looks cool aka Ranger, or one that does a boatload of damage and is responsible for killing or being in direct action aka Elementalist, Warrior. Nobody wants to play a support character. If Mesmers and Necros had more practical use in PvE, (I personally think Ne/Mes packing blood and domination are excellent PvE), according to the Guild Wars community on a whole, theyd be of premium value as well, but as it stands they are a minority, but a minority whose jobs arent in demand.

Im personally a big fan of support characters, I have a Necro, Mesmer and Healing Monk filling up 3 of 4 of my slots, but on the same token, Ive spent hours on end in places like Elona trying to get my Necro into any party at all, forget about a well organized one. I actually finally had to wait until a guild member could help me out, and we did Elona with henchmen, and I did the other two missions with henchmen by myself.

I also have been on the monk side, every place I go, Ive got 5 invitations to join a party before my character even fully appears on the screen.

Thats just the way it is, and as long as there are mundane "boring" playable characters, thats the way its going to be.

The real point is that you can substitute a warrior for an ele and vice versa in PvE and not miss much. You just need one of each kind, the you can steer away from premium without suffering much. Ranger and Mesmers and Necros share part of their roles too. So if you don't find what you want you can use the other to fill the spot.

OTOH, Monks are a necessity, because their skills can not be emulated. No one but monks can heal, and just about any party needs one or two. I say all the missions I've done so far (I'm at iron mines of moladune) can be done with hench monk. ALL. If monks start charging, I'll take alesia and lina. If I'm not the group leader, I quit. I will not tolerate a monk-charging trend to build, not around myself. Especially with the worth of your average monk.

There's one thing to be said about Alesia, that can rarely be said about your average human healer: Alesia focuses on healing only. (when she doesn't get crazed) she stays and cures you. Always. I lost count of the times when we were there fighting and at 10% energy shouted "heal plz" - while the monk was waving wands at some enemy or casting some smithing prayers or calling targets or roaming around happy-go-merry (alone). Being a monk can be boring at times - but if you choose that class, you choose a role: fulfill it.

I do play a monk - and the only thing that I really need to learn about monking in GW is take care of where the group goes. While fighting, I'm so concentrated on the healing that I rarely perceive what's going on around me or where my teammates are. Hell, sometimes I cast "heal other" on myself because I'm too busy to realize it is me that they are smiting

I won't ever pay someone to enjoy a game, unless it's a role playing decision. You are a mercenary, you ask me for a payment, I'll pay you. Hell, *I* am a mercenary and I happened to offer my help to a new guy for the right price (about 10 gold usually, it's the role playing decision that matters to me - and it's usually compensated by some drops I pick up and drop "because I'm not interested").

I won't support charging monks tho. Never.

Monks that should be charging are the ones at the fire island missions or possibly ascension missions and in some cases UW/FoW who more than likely have already done it. In these places there is a high demand for monks, usually filled by those of us who do not charge because we feel like doing a mission. The fools doing it soley for money would be better off solo farming. It is during the peak hours where 5 out of 6 other classes are playing and need a monk in their group that you see monks charge because they can. If you don't MIND waiting for the one who doesn't charge and would rather blow 20 minutes looking for a monk while there are 4 other groups trying to do the same thing, go for it. If your plat is that precious to you, keep it and lose 30 minutes to an hour looking for a monk. God help you if you need two, maybe you'll get lucky.

As for the mesmer/necro lowering damage, yes its true. However, a mesmer or necro has to play twice as hard as the monk just to compete. I can only speak for my necro since I haven't played a mesmer. While running with my necromancer I "can" make it so very little if any damage comes in and I "can" lower the effectiveness of enemies a great deal. I also have to be quick as there is a very small time window in which to operate when the enemy engages the group. Meanwhile the monk has a window at the bottom of his screen that simplifies the battle immensely. Imagine how hard it would be to heal without the group window, or even having to click each hero instead of his life bar. That is what a necro/mesmer must do to enemy mobs to be as effective as the monk.

The problem is there is an even smaller number of good necromancers or mesmers than there are good monks. When I made the switch in characters from necro to monk I noticed my groups instantly appreciated my efforts, some people may think monks are a thankless class but its the complete opposite, if you're any good at all you get all the glory while the other "support" classes have to spell out what they did to help. Believe me, I know when a good necro is in my group, but rational people are a minority in this game.

Calimar: Not a single mission in this game requires a primary healer...they're ALL significantly easier with one...but none absolutely require it. and on a second note my R/Mo can heal just as well as a Monk primary if I build for it.

Personally i think monks charging for their healing is laughable and could set off a chain reaction of other classes charging for their services, warriors asking for money to tank damage, ele's asking for money to deal damage etc.

Each class has a role, monks heal, warriors tank etc charging money to do something as fundamental as healing is just silly.

No he can't. Sorry but he may be able to heal as long as a monk not using any energy conservation(who does that?) through his power bar the first couple minutes of a fight but he will not heal for as much as a primary monk. If at the most basic level his orison heals for 50 and my orision heals for 50 he does not heal as well since my power regens faster. Lets assume we're including expertise/divine favor in this. Ok, so his costs less and mine heals for more but I still regen energy faster than him.

Btw, Wars may tank but they don't tank well. There is no way for them to control aggro in this game and as such the squishies get attacked who in turn get what? thats right, healed. The ones who do tank well solo farm just like the solo monks.

allow me to rephrase, as what was said was said in haste...

My R/Mo can heal well enough that the team doesn't require a Mo/* to get through a mission. As long as they play strategically...listen to me when I tell them not to aggro a group and wait for my energy to regen I can keep them healed through battle...with minimal deaths.

A warrior can tank well if the squishies let him - if they insist on being stupid then they get attacked. You can only tank as well as your party lets you.

That's actually pretty universal - you can only heal as well as your party lets you, you can only nuke as well as your party lets you, you can only debuff and counter as much as your party lets you. If you run with idiots you'll play badly, as they don't allow you to play well.

Just to let you know, My monk now only joins groups that include a mesmer or a necro and I advertise as such. And I never fail to thank a necro who drops a blood well.

How is it the parties fault that the warrior can't tank? If a player gets inside the aggro circle he runs the risk of gaining the mobs attention. Since mobs often attack in groups there is an even greater chance of the squishies gaining attention. Casters can stay out of the circle if they cast at MAX range but even a foot or two closer and they're inside the circle. In theory it is easy to stay outside the circle but if you're not careful the ai will take you inisde the circle before a spell is cast. I'm not talking a distance with which you can reach out and touch the warrior either if I was i'd agree with you, those guys have no business being THAT close.

sidenote: Bad parties are indeed around, but they're often the result of two or three bad players. We shouldn't always pawn it off on the party though, thats what the bad players do. "it's your fault i got owned by 20 mobs because you don't heal fast enough to keep up with my skill". Usually it is the other guys fault but you should always examine the way you played just in case, to err is human but shirking responsiblity for those mistakes is ignorant.