A-net ABUSE!!!

You people here are seriously too anal about the runners, why do YOU really care how someone else plays their game? Get over it.

Lorelei I think nothing in this thread is half as smart as what you say here:

"I am unsure which side you are on, Gwen (hehe, can't resist), but I actually agree with your post. Nothing wrong with finding places to farm, ways to make money (escort, run, etc.) But just don't cry about it when it got changed. Find more creative ways to make money :P"

As per the flaming... allow people the same freedom of thought that you claim for yourself people. It doesn't hurt, promise. They think differently, but I'm quite sure A.Net is much smarter than an enraged 15 years old boy/girl, and will definitely pick decisions that make sense - just like most if not all that they took lately. Give them credit.

Another point: the fact that people in perch ask for runners doesn't mean a thing. By your logic, I could decide that ashtrays cause cancer, because people staying for long in places with them get lung cancer. But it would be fallacious logic, right? You have to count them and compare to the number of players who never asked for a runner.
I have a thought about the results

Oh, btw, I didn't find a black dye either, but I can buy it for 3-4k.

Funny, my guild noticed the changes last night when we running our low level characters through. "Man, this got tougher." Once we realized they added more mobs my comment was, "the forums are going to be full of cry babies tomorrow."

Looks like I was right.

Anyway, we still managed to run three characters through with little trouble. All they did was to keep the bottom 20% of unskilled runners from being able to make it, which is good to me. The fewer people that can do it, the more it will be worth for the people who still can.

Funny how the complaints go up when people have to earn something.

/NOT signed

The mobs should be given muddy terrain spirits, imo.

the people who cry the loudest that the *new* and *casusl* players will be hurt are the rich farmers who have had their fields trimmed so if they still want to farm they have to spend some time now to do it.

they could care less about someone else......their gold mine just ran out

tragedy

as for the runners getting rich on taxi service .......

only the best runners will survive

evolution in action

/UNSIGNED

Yay! indeed.

Baited sarcasm notwithstanding, I admit I like a little PvE mob tweakin' now and then. I'm sure most of the FoW crowd got a "hmm that's interesting!" moment when approaching the Eternal Forgemaster and with each pair of Barrage-spamming rangers with such a lethal height advantage already, in that they decided to add a Shadow Beast spamming his SS... you know, for kids!

I'm sorry it's frustrating you, Ownage. I have confidence you'll figure out a way to deal with it, though. You seem really pissed off about it. Anger is an exceptional motivator!

My apologies for the instant "click of the reply and flame" mode i have but....

Who the hell died and made you me? No one.. What the point of the game is to you, isnt nessesarily what it is for me. Other people have fun in different ways... So please stop assuming all people think and play like you. K thanks.

Probably one of the best points ive seen...

haha

You can't rush other people to droknar? good, Maybe we won't see any of those guy in Ascalon arena with Droknar armor and elites skills ( i don't play here but for those who do ) that ruin the people fun because of some retard that weren't bright enought to not play here.

LOL! Perfect.

It don't think the goal was to make running harder but make these zones for high level PvE challange (and the runners have hardder time) and I pretty sure the new zones from the free summer content is going to be placed in thses zones and Anet maybe doing nothing more then adding a challenging area for PvE with the free content (and making running hard as a side effect not as a target).

gees...this reminds me of when the high levels where whineing cause the low level newbs were doing the EXACT thing they themselves had done to get where they were today and were assed off about it, so they whined and griped and flamed till nearly everything in game was classed as an exploit....

i mean c'mon people...!

dont forget that most of you saying running to drok is bad have ALREADY been and gotten there.
your basically saying that you want half the damn map to stay closed to anyone thats not gotten assended, to keep the riffraff and the low levels out of YOUR areas.
wow, that realy nice of you...<sarcasme>

ok, i understand that these bitbrains with their 1.5k armours and elite skills are knackering the lower arens, an yeah, thats bad.
so, make a level or armour restriction for these lower arenas and make it so that they cant EQUIP the damn stuff to play BaddAss King-of-the-Ring

but how would you feel if lots of areas were now off limits, simply cause YOU were lvl20 or had Assended, and we mere mortals had the run of 80% of the world now?

your would scream so much, they would hear you in the underworld lol

Nothing wrong with having a shortcut to get to the Forge, if you are willing to earn that shortcut - thus fight through the tough mobs to get there. If you can earn your way to the Forge all the power to ya.

Running is just plain wrong. Its the cheap @$$ lazy way around a situation. It's wrong, and I don't care about your (pro-runners) reasons why you think its not.

I only care enough to say what I just said.

Teklord, that makes no sense at all. Noone at the normal level for that area can 'earn' their way through, it's a short-cut that exists for the precise purpose it's being used for: running low-levels through to Droknar's.

And the idea that monsters are being beefed up their for higher levels is silly, there are plenty of high-level places that can be done.

ANet specifically stated that one of their goals was to eliminate grinding in GW. Now this has been waved in their face a lot, often inappropriately, but it seems to me that they put in this shortcut -exactly- because it was in their design plans: to give a shortcut for players who would benefit from it. And by and large, that's what it's being used for. Yes, sometimes newbies spend every penny they have and buy a ride, so what? Then you have a clueless penniless newbie at Drok's Forge who wasted their money getting somewhere they have no way to take advantage of.

I personally can't see me using a runner, I think it's more fun to progress 'naturally'. But I can certainly understand someone using a runner who views PvE as a means only to unlock PvP skills/spells. For them it's a power-up for their 2nd and 3rd characters that lets them get back to PvP as soon as possible.

Like I said before, making the run harder makes no sense. It was already perfectly balanced, IMO (i.e., only a small percentage of the GW population could make the run). Tweaking it so that 'small' becomes 'smaller' just doesn't make any sense, except possible to up the price being asked for a run. But that price is already high enough that it probably won't be paid by anyone who is on their first character, and if they -do- pay it they won't have the money/items necessary to benefit from being at the Forge to begin with.

So it comes down to this: either -eliminate- the shortcut, or leave it as it was, making it harder just doesn't make any sense. It's just irritation with no upside.

If somethings there, you can use it, it doesnt matter what it was intended for or what people think it should be used for, all that matters is what people can and cant do, as long as its nothing that counts as an exploit etc then fair enough to the people that do it.
I agree that seeing people less than lvl 20 in Droknars is annoying, "I put all the effort in of playing the game so why should they get the reward of being here for nothing", and it seems unfair, but if the paths there, they can take it. And Droknar runners were probably inevitable, if theres a way to make money, people WILL find it, you dont complain in real life when you see a rich person, they worked for that money, mabey got a bit lucky but none the less did something legal for it.
(And with the criminals [or exploiters] they may have money, but they could get arrested, as in Anet banning them.)

The two new areas are off of Lonar's Pass, just before the zone to Dreadnaught's Drift, you can't miss it. It's on the east side. It's a big greenish gate and wall with a huge statue of Grenth. I don't know why you would want to leave from Beacons Pearch to get to the new areas. Camp Rankor would be quicker and easier, because you can have a party of eight instead of six and the mobs in Snakes Dance are much quicker to go through than Lonars Pass. Of course if you take a wrong turn in Dreadnaughts Drift and end agro'ing the Frost Wurm Boss you could be in trouble!

Anyways the point I'm trying to get to here in my rambling is that if there is an increase in mobs in Lonars Pass it's most likely to be to slow down the running or at least to force people to get a good PUG together and fight your way through. Anyways the pass is there, and it's there for people to use anyway they would like Sometimes A-net is going to change it up a little, which is a nice because it keeps things unpredictable in my opinion.

I have no problem with the runners, I only have a problem if folks use that armor in the low level arenas. Otherwise, do what you want with the game you spent your money on.

It is clear that the design was on purpose to make a way to the high level areas. I worked and scratched and clawed my way the first time to Droknar's. My other characters, I just want to strengthen them up for PvP/GvG. Therefore, I had them run.

I notice a certain irony here. I used to watch the old WWII movies with John Wayne. After his gun ran out of bullets he would throw it down and grab his knife. Meanwhile there were dozens of other guns lying all around he could have just picked up.

The irony is this: If you were really your character(of course this is fantasy), you would rather have the gun instead of the knife when facing an onslaught of enemies. In fact, you would prefer the gun even if you knew the knife would be fairly adequete. Why? To increase your odds of winning and surviving!

It's the same in the game for many. Many want to get better armor and weapons to increase the odds of winning. I see this as a natural instinct being communicated into this game, reguardless of what the Devs may or may not have intended.

Again, I do think there should be limits for the low level arenas since these folks are new and I don't want them to become disillusioned with the game.

Well guys, Im seeing that you guys are just looking at the view, of a runner in droknar. But it's deeper than that. As you can see, economy in guildwars is slowly dropping down. Prices for items, ARE ridiculous. And I can't believe you guys are praising a-net for their nerfing, their removing of chests, and just about every gay thing that happens to the game.

We all have a life, I pretty much presume. I mean, guildwars is for fun. But it's not fun when you have some lucky people who have gotten some +X% >50. Guildwars should implement some money making skills, or ways to gain money. That's my point.

We all are casual players (hopefully). I personally just want to see an improvement in economy. I mean, I really liked the idea of faction, and unlocking items...but it only goes to a certain level of individual gain.

So, Im just saying that I would like a-net to help us out, to help us actually get that 15k armour, in a agreeable way, in a agreeable time limit. Other than searching the whole world, hoping that you will get a max damage, gold storm bow, or some various other drops, they could implement...lets say..fishing?

But...I'm just waiting for major improvements in this game...as It still seems far away from being the big daddy of gameplay.

That's one of the challenges of game design: if you don't have item levels then inevitably people find ways of getting high-powered armor/weapons onto their lowbies. If you do have item levels, then you have an arbitrary game-mechanic rearing its ugly head in your make-believe world. After all, who ever went through a museum and saw a level 20 set of armor? GW has a skill level requirements on some gear, but because it has no generic armor skill that's loophole.

*watches as the young Arthur pulls the sword from the stone, only to have it zap him and fall out of his hands because he's not level 20*

It might be interesting if GW implemented a generic armor skill, with more skillpoints invested allowing heavier and heavier armor to be used, giving each character a choice as to when to say "I can't afford to spend any more skillpoints in armor, I need them for my other stuff", but doing it at this point would require some major rebalancing and a skill reset for the entire playerbase, probably not something we'd see unless a -huge- update came out. It might be worth thinking about, though (they probably already have to some degree).

It does, however, prove that there is a demand for runners. Its plainly obvious that plenty of people have absolutely no problem with taking the shortcut. And please, don't try to claim they're a minority unless you have hard statistics. Anything else is just worthless speculation.

Prove it.

Cry me a river.

in summary, ANet fixed loop-hole for players to pay-to-advance, made it harder to farm items.

Good job ANet! Please continue to make this game more player friendly, less farmer/runner friendly. Sooner or later, runners and farmers will give up and leave, and what's left in the community are going to be mainly gamers! yeah!

Improvise, adapt, and overcome. If you can't do those things, tough. Someone will be able to eventually, and they will continue to make a profit. Then I suppose you can copy their build or something.

/no sympathy

!!!RIDICULOUS!!! For the next update, Anet should remove all monsters from the game and replace them by treasure chests.

If they've added mobs, do as The Amazing Krandor says: Adjust...try different skills. After all, skill-based play is what the game is SUPPOSED to be. If it is the same every time you do something, you get stale and boring. This way you have to actually....*gasps*....THINK!

Make your money running people to Droknar's. But don't whine if you actually have to work to earn it! LOL!

/seconds the no sympathy vote

It would be interesting if the mobs would generate from a random group of builds instead of a single one as well, so you never know what to expect until you get there.

Dumb statement, people don't play your way so you want them to leave? Thinning down the community and decreasing it's size, How about if enough people leave so anet can't afford to keep it a free game and or can't properly do an expansion due to lack of funds. Mainly gamers! yeah!

Hear that all you farmers/runners out there? Everyone who farms and runs leave the game immediately so this guy can have his "gamers" only game.

Nice to have more mobs there, imo. Nice xp and I can slowly get the stuff for the good collectors in Snake Dance.

you really believe that arenanet put Lornars Pass into the game so that low-level characters could get armor they aren't supposed to have until MUCH later in the game? Was it also ArenaNets intention that these characters would then use this armor to be king-for-a-day in the Ascalon arena against new players still struggling to figure out working builds....You really believe ArenaNet put the Pass in the game for it's currently used purpose??


here I am, silly me, thinking it was put there to host the 4 elite bosses in the area for people looking to cap skills......

If it was for skill capping then it wouldn't have to connect to a lowbie area, would it? It's there for -precisely- the purpose of running. Any other conclusion is an insult to the intelligence of the ANet area design team.

Do I think they wanted people playing king-for-a-day in the arena? No, as I already stated earlier in this thread, I don't. That's why the reimplemented the gain-exp-in-the-arena code, to keep people from using the arena to farm faction points for days on end. Is that a perfect solution? No, but as far as I know it's an acceptable one, and from the responses to it I've read here other people seem to agree.

For a lowbie to buy the run to Droknar's -and- have the money/items needed to buy the 1.5k armor they either are someone's 2nd/3rd/4th character or they are using an outside source (EBay, their guildmates, whatever). Sure, there are going to be a -tiny- fraction that are playing their first character -and- got access to outside cash/resources -and- bought their way to Droknar's Forge -and- went back and then exploited the arena for a few hours, but does this incredibly tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny percentage of people demand an entire zone be changed to frustrate them? *laugh*

Quite obviously, Lornar's is NOT for elite skill capping. If anything, elite skill capping would be going from Camp Rankor up, not from Beacon's down (where at that point, you would have NO access to Capture Signets in the first place).

Actually, to solve the problem of not allowing Drok armor wearing players in Ascalon/Shiverpeaks arena would be a trivial problem to settle. Simply upon entry into the area, check if the player has entered Droknar's Forge before. If so, simply kick him out to the corresponding town. Or if you want to solve the problem entirely, simply close off the pass.

I'm going to guess that the only reason that they simply have not done this is because its by far easier to simply by far easier to to add more spawns and make it tougher rather than having to redesign a map or add (IMHO) a relatively simple condition check upon entry which needs to be actually tested.

I'm thinking that they haven't closed it off because they don't want to hear the storm of protest that would arise if they did. LOL! How many headaches do you think these poor people want?

Maybe this is news to you. Anet did nothing to stop farming or running. They simply make it more challenging for farmers and runners.

Would you like to play a game where there are no monsters, but treasure chests everywhere? YES or NO and we start the argument from here.

Running to Droknar's Forge is pathetic for those who aren't ascended before. If that sounds stupid then GW is not right game for you because it means almost same that you don't want to play the game but do something else so log off and do something else or play other game.

For those who are ascended before, why you want to skip? I assume when you are playing with new character, you changed the main profession because there is no point to start new one if you didn't. Don't you want to experience the game again with new skills, special skill line, new weapons and armos plus with new playing style? This game can be happily play again from start to end perhaps even six times, thanks to new main profession. You want quickly to get best armor for PvP? Well, start PvP character then? Oh, you want to beat newbies on the low level arenas with best armors? Sorry, at least I don't want that kind of n00bs to this game and it is quite "no-life" to do that anyway.

ArenaNET is the God in Guild Wars and I'm happy that it made Droknar's running harder or maybe impossible to many runners.

Don't nerf farming? Well, 100k gold can be earned in couple hours if you do it in right place with right character setups. Maybe even more. I'm still newbie in farming because I don't do it a lot. Randomly test different setups and earn some small gold for dye experiments. I must say that huge amount of gold farming draws my attention so we need the nerf bat again. I think that amount of gold is too much and they still should do something about the farming. Sorry, that I'm against people who want rush 1000k money in couple days, walking with "best" and most expensive armors with very short amount of time. Then come to tell that GW is boring because they have plenty of money but nothing to do. Why you don't want to play with others than maybe one single time in each mission? Is this some kind of "1337 isolation" behaviour where you want to get top of everyone and never ever want to go those "newbie" missions and areas again? I thought that most fun comes from examing different professions, skills, fighting in groups helping each other against the monsters with different ways and see the day when some rare gold item drops on your feet. No, you want to rush everything and then get bored, complain about when next expansion come so you can rush it and complain again?

This is just my opinion but it seems a lot of people understand this game wrong. ArenaNET actions tell that it is not the way to play the game. I'm also happy that they won't go for what masses want. They want something unique. Maybe that is why some left from Blizzard. They didn't want this to be a game for rushers and farmers.

/unsigned

if they closed it off they'd have to hear from thousands of angry socially rejected teenagers bitch about how the game was linear...it's not closed off because the developers want to give the feel that you can travel ANYWHERE within the confines of the map....it makes perfect sense that you'd be able to walk out of beacons perch into an area that was FAR too difficult for you to get through...you're supposed to say "wow...im heading back"...just as an intermediate rock climber would think when given the option to climb "Death Canyon". It was NOT put there so you can run to get end game armor... It was put there so that players coming up from Droknar wouldn't get to the end and see a giant wall and think "WTF Why can't I get into Beacons????!?@!@?three!@?#!@#?ten!>?@#>!@#?!@#seve nten!@#!@#one!"

If the farmers and runners make up significant population of GW's community, GW isn't going anywhere soon then.

How's about unlock forge area + elite skills for pvp? Oh, didn't think about that one, did you?

You may not have figured this out, but without farming, it takes around 50 perfect UW runs to get the amount of xp you need to get all the 2 class skills. Running a character who can easily level to 20 to later levels to pick up 20-30 skills at a time is FAR more time effective.

Exactly what I was thinking. The first time I got to Beacon's Perch, my husband's and my characters got some henchmen and headed out into Lornar's. We, of course, immediately got snuffed and ran back in with our tails between our legs. We had NO idea that it lead anywhere, we were just running around having fun. But we definitely learned the lesson that that was not an area for US until much later.

Ah the good old days of being in Beacon's without 5,000,000,000 calls of "Will run to Droknar's for 2k".

that seemed to be only a few short weeks ago...it's amazing how quickly things change when you get into a game early

Time effective? You are thinking games as a real world. Games suppose to be fun, not how you do things easiest and fastest.

Unlocking all skills with haste just pushes you to the moment where you think "that's all?". You can think that it doesn't make sense but if game developers are against that kind of rushing, well it means they don't want that kind of game and there is nothing you can do but quit and search for another game.

In my opinion they should just simply separate PvP and PvE the way that only in PvP you can earn all items and all skills for PvP with factions and only players similar faction numbers can fight each other because otherwise it would be unbalanced. In PvE you shouldn't do a thing to PvP like unlocking skills so there wouldn't be any reason to allow ascended and especially non-ascended players to rush Droknar's.

Continuity is a pretty stupid argument, given that the game/storyline itself shows no continuity. You've killed off the White Mantles' Inner Council, masscared Justiciar Habilon, wiped countless Murssat. Yet you pretty much can journey back to Lion's Arch, walk around unmolested, do trading. Or by the time you reach Crystal Desert, we're told that the Shining Blade has been eliminated! Go back to Henge of Denravi, and they're all still there fine. Quite obviousy, no continuity of that sort.

As for linearism, it pretty much is linear. Save for Magumma Jungle, the path is fixed. Ascalon -> Northern Shiverpeaks -> Kryta -> Magumma ->Crystal Desert -> Southern Shiverpeaks -> Ring of Fire. By that argument, I should be able to travel from Ascalon into Southern Shiverpeaks directly, or from Southern Shiverpeaks to Crystal Desert.

If ANet wants to make a signal that running is NOT good, closing off would do no harm per se. Simply make a rockfall at Dreadnought's Drift and Snake Dance, blocking the journey through. You could explore all the way up to either side, but the access would be a no go. Heck, they could even open it up in one of the expansions...