Everyone who criticizes people for ebaying items in any game has abseloutley no right, nor justification. You can't tell a person that what they're spending their money on isn't worth it. Worth is a subjective term at best, Dictionary.com defines worth as "1.The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable
2. Material or market value" When you put it into those terms, these pixels are actually "worth" a whole lot, as they are valued by many. The only people who can tell someone that it's wrong in this case is an Anet employee.
You can't tell me not to take a video game seriously because the Video Gaming Industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. Hell, the internet gold industry is a multi-million dollar industry. That, is some serious business my friends.
Besides, this is more than just a game. Video games, and MMO's in particular are lifestyles and communites. You're not just buying a cd and a manual when you buy a $50 game. You're buying a ticket into another world, into a whole new community.
I am eighteen years old. I have two jobs and work roughly 65 hours a week. I play World of Warcraft, I play Guild Wars, I play Battlefield 2, and thats just to name a few. Now, what does this have to do with me ebaying?
The fact of the matter is, that I just DO NOT have enough time to grind for, (I'll quote the OP) 30 hours to get 100k. 100k is probably four times what I'd actually need so 30/4=7.5hours=$1. thats $1 for roughly 7.5 hours of work. for 7.5 hours of grinding killing the same mobs over and over again when i could be questing and trying to level up actually having fun.
My opinon is biased though. I bought the 100g, (I'm sorry, the time spent to get the gold ;-) ) for my mount in World of Warcraft, and in my opinon it's the best $13.49 I've ever spent.
I do sympathize however, that it destroys the "economy"(there I go taking a game seriously)but that's just the nature of the beast. The problem is not the people who buy gold off ebay. The problem is people who buy TOO MUCH GOLD
Ebay or not Ebay, that is the question.
Die_trying_inc
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Nokomis
If these people are selling their time and effort, are their profits not subject to income tax?
--Nokomis |
Jetai12
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Originally Posted by Arturo02
don't ever use real life money to buy pixels. Not worth it.
Especially on a night like tonight where black dye sold to the NPC vendor put 8+ plat in your inventory.  |
Dax
It is pretty lame to buy gold especially for GW. The game hasn't been out that long and people are already crying about how long it takes to grind to get something.
The way I look at it is your basically buying a way not to play the game, considering you spent 50 bucks to play in the first place you'd want to get the most out of it.
The way I look at it is your basically buying a way not to play the game, considering you spent 50 bucks to play in the first place you'd want to get the most out of it.
Mesmerized
i think its pathetic how you see clean max def shields going for 3k+ just because they look like a skull, when a max def regular looking shield with amazing mods, no one pays even 500g for.. maybe its just my bad luck 
and yeah ive been tempted to buy 100k off ebay and that stuff.. but hell, 100k isnt going to get you anything anymore.. you see kids selling their max damage storm bows with +4 defense (wOoooooOOoo!) for 100k+ecto.. and i end up selling my clean one that no one wants to the trader so i can afford another ID kit
i think economy sucks right now, and for those who dont want to spend the time farming and getting nothing or ebaying.. they're pretty much screwed.
idk, thats my 2 cents.. /commence flaming
and yeah ive been tempted to buy 100k off ebay and that stuff.. but hell, 100k isnt going to get you anything anymore.. you see kids selling their max damage storm bows with +4 defense (wOoooooOOoo!) for 100k+ecto.. and i end up selling my clean one that no one wants to the trader so i can afford another ID kit
i think economy sucks right now, and for those who dont want to spend the time farming and getting nothing or ebaying.. they're pretty much screwed.
idk, thats my 2 cents.. /commence flaming
Dax
...but then again everyone complains when GW nerfs something because of bots. Which is the way ebayer get thier gold. Does anyone see the irony here?
Damon Windwalker
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Originally Posted by Dax
...but then again everyone complains when GW nerfs something because of bots. Which is the way ebayer get thier gold. Does anyone see the irony here?
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Dax
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Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker
yes. the irony is that when you decrease the availability of something, you make it more valuable - and therefore, you increase the demand to the commercial farmers. Ironic that by trying to get rd of them, they are making them more necessary.
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Asplode
...and the authorities in China don't know or care?
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Asplode
...and the authorities in China don't know or care?
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Aracos79
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Originally Posted by Asplode
...and the authorities in China don't know or care?
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Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Aracos79
Oh there are plenty of things they could do in that direction if they really wanted a money sink. You could have melee weapons decay through use, forcing you to go to a "smith" character to have them repaired... which would cost money of course. You could do the same for armor as well. Casters could be forced to buy reagents and spell components. And of course the aforementioned arrows for archers. Glad ANet didn't go that direction though... that would be damn annoying. :P
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Red Sonya
I guess we could make the game for Americans only, that would solve some of the legal issues. And poor ole china would be left out in the cold. No IP addresses from China allow.
And poor ole china would be left out in the cold. No IP addresses from China allow.
Die_trying_inc
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Originally Posted by Dax
Not only that but everytime someone gives these guys money, you are paying the very same people who are screwing up farming. Since most places were nerfed due to excessive botting anyone who buys gold is essentially supporting them.
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If you want a game with PVE only go play WoW.
Dax
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Originally Posted by Die_trying_inc
thats the thing though, this is a PVP-BASED game not RP. Most people are here to fight each other, not dragons. rofl.
If you want a game with PVE only go play WoW. |
So are you saying since its PvP it's ok?
..and actually I do play WoW as well.
Orochim4ru
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| The problem is not the people who buy gold off ebay. The problem is people who buy TOO MUCH GOLD |
I'm sorry, I just don't get your argument; its not like people are buying 100M on ebay.
Die_trying_inc
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Originally Posted by Dax
Umm...aside from the fact that PvP is just one aspect of the game, it doesn't negate the fact that by buying gold off someone else you're screwing up the game by subsidising the very people who make it more difficult to make money.
So are you saying since its PvP it's ok? ..and actually I do play WoW as well. |
That's why the entire world is instanced.. so that thier not farming your spot.
I believe you mean that they make it harder to purchase your equipment.Well, in a way then, aren't you raising their prices buy buying from them anyway? the more you buy the more gold they're going to want to make: Greed will make prices go up be it botting farmer or legit player selling the item. And if the prices go up wouldn't it in a way be easier to make gold, seing as how you can sell your items for more?
I understand that buying gold gives an unfair advantage, but what do you call player A getting 10 hours a week more playing time than player B. Player B is at a disadvantage to player A, therefore he logically tries to balance that out. I am player B.
When the prices go up it forces people to farm longer for gold/that particular item.. My point is that I don't have time to do either, so I buy the gold to buy the item. I'm sorry if you disagree with this, but in my mind, it makes perfect sense, I do agree with you in a sense though.
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Originally Posted by Orochim4ru
So you're saying that buying X amount of gold is fine, but if you pass a threshold X+Y things become different? Wait wait wait: you admitted that buying gold ruins the economy, and thus forces people to buy gold to avoid grind, yet you also maintain that if you buy gold once, it isn't a problem?
I'm sorry, I just don't get your argument; its not like people are buying 100M on ebay. |
Feel free to reply guys.
Dax
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Originally Posted by Die_trying_inc
How do these people make it difficult to make money?
That's why the entire world is instanced.. so that thier not farming your spot. I believe you mean that they make it harder to purchase your equipment.Well, in a way then, aren't you raising their prices buy buying from them anyway? the more you buy the more gold they're going to want to make Greed will make prices go up be it botting farmer or legit player selling the item. And if the prices go up wouldn't it in a way be easier to make gold, seing as how you can sell your items for more? I understand that buying gold gives an unfair advantage, but what do you call player A getting 10 hours a week more playing time than player B. Player B is at a disadvantage to player A, therefore he logically tries to balance that out. I am player B. Feel free to reply guys. |
Does someone who plays more have an advantage? Yes, but it's not an unfair advantage. Would you think it's ok to cheat if you couldn't spen enough time playing too? Seriouly, it's only logical that someone who spends more time in a game is probably going to accomplish more..... the game isn't that hard though.
Die_trying_inc
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Originally Posted by Dax
I screws of farming (hence making money) for the rest because the drop rates have been nerfed most likely due to botting (mostly by gold sellers)....that's why.
Does someone who plays more have an advantage? Yes, but it's not an unfair advantage. Would you think it's ok to cheat if you couldn't spen enough time playing too? Seriouly, it's only logical that someone who spends more time in a game is probably going to accomplish more..... the game isn't that hard though. |
finding an item you desperatly want; difficult and time consuming.
i know that a person who plays more is going to accomplish more and that's my point. I'm just trying to compensate for the time I don't have.
Dax
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Originally Posted by Die_trying_inc
the game itself; easy.
finding an item you desperatly want; difficult and time consuming. i know that a person who plays more is going to accomplish more and that's my point. I'm just trying to compensate for the time I don't have. |
trelloskilos
My 2 cents....
Buying virtual money for real money sucks!
OK, so you don't want to put in the time and gameplay to get a healthy level of cash in the game. That's your problem. However, you're ruining the game for everyone else.
I do farm, but it's not an active part of my gameplay. I do it if I'm testing a skill layout, or if I'm expanding parts of the map, or if I need a break from quests etc. If I were to put in the effort and spend a good hour or so collecting, salvaging, exchanging and trading, and get say 10k out of all of it, that's fine by me. What isn't fine by me is someone sauntering in with 1000k in virtual funds messing up the economy and making a mockery of the efforts of me and other gamers.
Bottom line is that I bought Guild Wars to have fun and enjoy a game, but if your idea of enjoying a game is to have it all laid out on a plate, I'd rather do it the hard way.
Buying virtual money for real money sucks!
OK, so you don't want to put in the time and gameplay to get a healthy level of cash in the game. That's your problem. However, you're ruining the game for everyone else.
I do farm, but it's not an active part of my gameplay. I do it if I'm testing a skill layout, or if I'm expanding parts of the map, or if I need a break from quests etc. If I were to put in the effort and spend a good hour or so collecting, salvaging, exchanging and trading, and get say 10k out of all of it, that's fine by me. What isn't fine by me is someone sauntering in with 1000k in virtual funds messing up the economy and making a mockery of the efforts of me and other gamers.
Bottom line is that I bought Guild Wars to have fun and enjoy a game, but if your idea of enjoying a game is to have it all laid out on a plate, I'd rather do it the hard way.
Die_trying_inc
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Originally Posted by trelloskilos
My 2 cents....
Buying virtual money for real money sucks! OK, so you don't want to put in the time and gameplay to get a healthy level of cash in the game. That's your problem. However, you're ruining the game for everyone else. I do farm, but it's not an active part of my gameplay. I do it if I'm testing a skill layout, or if I'm expanding parts of the map, or if I need a break from quests etc. If I were to put in the effort and spend a good hour or so collecting, salvaging, exchanging and trading, and get say 10k out of all of it, that's fine by me. What isn't fine by me is someone sauntering in with 1000k in virtual funds messing up the economy and making a mockery of the efforts of me and other gamers. Bottom line is that I bought Guild Wars to have fun and enjoy a game, but if your idea of enjoying a game is to have it all laid out on a plate, I'd rather do it the hard way. |
But again I go back to my point. I don't have the amount of time required to farm even if i was able to farm for 2 hours a day, I would NOT "have fun and enjoy [this] game", I'd rather cut to the heart of this game= PvP and be able to compete there. That is my idea of fun. I don't care if I can beat a dragon or a wolf, I'd rather be able to beat you, your friend, brother or whoever else wants to fight me, I'd rather it not take months to get to the point where I am able to compete.
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Originally Posted by Dax
Because of excessive botting things are harder to find, so you make less money and will take you more time. Excessive botting is mostly done by gold sellers. That's my point.
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Dax
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Originally Posted by Die_trying_inc
The drop rates on "godly items" are going to go down whether there's bots or not. and by making things harder to find that makes them worth more gold. Supply and Demand. Look it up. |
Evidently I'm not going to convince you. It really doesn't matter to me I don't spend that much time playing and I have all the money I need. I really think its a matter of just not wanting to play the game, to which you are paying someone to do for you.
Paul Templar
I refuse to support the use of bots and that means will not buy gold off ebay
Its the same as I dont support thieves and just because they can sell things cheap doesnt mean its better to buy off them either.
Where on earth did it become necessary to buy gold in the first place the items are not special required to play the game they are just gold sinks for a change not anything better
In the real world if I cant afford it I do without
The only way around this is to beat the bots at their own game and that is to flood the game with those items to meet the demand of the players
but do it so the drops are way higher in the missions and the gold drop rate so it becomes part of the mission and can not be done by a solo bot
Also to drop the amount needed for FOW armour of shards and ecto so there is less demand
Remove Black dye drops from Ascalon pre-searing so scammers will stop spamming new players with WTB black dye I dont like the idea of a new player coming in and finding out he/she was scammed
Some items in the game dont make you a better player just greedy for something you want and not many have. When this type of though pattern is dealt with by changing it so items become easily obtainable through game play then some people will realise others have just the same gear but they are better because of skill and team play nothing more than that
No quick fix, just the time it takes to learn to play the game with skill and effort
Its the same as I dont support thieves and just because they can sell things cheap doesnt mean its better to buy off them either.
Where on earth did it become necessary to buy gold in the first place the items are not special required to play the game they are just gold sinks for a change not anything better
In the real world if I cant afford it I do without
The only way around this is to beat the bots at their own game and that is to flood the game with those items to meet the demand of the players
but do it so the drops are way higher in the missions and the gold drop rate so it becomes part of the mission and can not be done by a solo bot
Also to drop the amount needed for FOW armour of shards and ecto so there is less demand
Remove Black dye drops from Ascalon pre-searing so scammers will stop spamming new players with WTB black dye I dont like the idea of a new player coming in and finding out he/she was scammed
Some items in the game dont make you a better player just greedy for something you want and not many have. When this type of though pattern is dealt with by changing it so items become easily obtainable through game play then some people will realise others have just the same gear but they are better because of skill and team play nothing more than that
No quick fix, just the time it takes to learn to play the game with skill and effort
Fourhundred Meters
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Originally Posted by snipes
With the massive costs of Ectoplasma and Shards i feel like buying some Gold on ebay to get my FoW armor. Though i would have to spend about 500 dollors im sure.
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trelloskilos
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Originally Posted by Die_trying_inc
Agreed.
But again I go back to my point. I don't have the amount of time required to farm even if i was able to farm for 2 hours a day, I would NOT "have fun and enjoy [this] game", I'd rather cut to the heart of this game= PvP and be able to compete there. That is my idea of fun. I don't care if I can beat a dragon or a wolf, I'd rather be able to beat you, your friend, brother or whoever else wants to fight me, I'd rather it not take months to get to the point where I am able to compete. The drop rates on "godly items" are going to go down whether there's bots or not. and by making things harder to find that makes them worth more gold. Supply and Demand. Look it up. |
Bear in mind that in PvP, it's supposed to be a strategy game too. You may play several people who have the bog-standard equipment and skills, and you can still get beaten even with your 15k armour, runes of Superior Vigor and every skill unlocked. Why? Because they know how to play the game!
In other words, if you want to fight other players, whether or not you've got the time, have the decency of accepting that you will lose NOT because your equipment isn't good enough BUT because you aren't putting in the time or effort to practice and perfect your PvP game. - There simply isn't any excuse for using bots for a quick money fix!
Diarrhea
Everyone knows that they would ebay for addicting games like guild wars if they had the extra cash and need something relaly bad.. i know i would if i was richer.. i got guild wars for birthday and that was it lol
Angelina
You get your fissure armor when you buyed shards/ectos for 3k or maybe less each.
With all the nerfs, the problem is some people get an insame amount of money/items from "old farm" and you just can't be competitive.
Old fissure armor price : ~500k , maybe less
Actual price : ~1,500 billion , maybe more
Some players are very rich, by farming before all the nerfs, now if you want to be as rich as them, not to show off, but to buy "decent" weapons, armors (fissure...), you can :
1) Farming uw (you need favor, less drops anyway than before patchs, will be nerfed)
2) Buying gold from ebay
3) Know some devs and be advertised from skyrocket prices, tu buy and resell.
Farming uw is very slow, you *may* get some very good weapon, sometime 1 or 2 ectos by run. Ah thats sure, old farmers used to get more ectos than you.
Farming fresh golems, etc etc..
There are 3, well 4 kind of gw players :
- Old days farmers (rich)
- "After nerfs" players (poor...)
- Ebay users
- pvp players
The economy is totally unfair and unbalanced.
Look at the ecto prices : I've seen some players with fissure armor spamming TOA : "Don't sell ectos for less than xx"
"WTB ectos for [actual price + 5k]" (fakes offers to boost the prices)
When I ask them, they say "To keep prices high, to avoid players getting fissure armor". Of course they buyed their armor for ~400k, that's a good deal for them.
Anet should remove all nerfs of reset all accounts IMO. It's too much unbalanced to make me call this game "FUN" anymore.
With all the nerfs, the problem is some people get an insame amount of money/items from "old farm" and you just can't be competitive.
Old fissure armor price : ~500k , maybe less
Actual price : ~1,500 billion , maybe more
Some players are very rich, by farming before all the nerfs, now if you want to be as rich as them, not to show off, but to buy "decent" weapons, armors (fissure...), you can :
1) Farming uw (you need favor, less drops anyway than before patchs, will be nerfed)
2) Buying gold from ebay
3) Know some devs and be advertised from skyrocket prices, tu buy and resell.
Farming uw is very slow, you *may* get some very good weapon, sometime 1 or 2 ectos by run. Ah thats sure, old farmers used to get more ectos than you.
Farming fresh golems, etc etc..
There are 3, well 4 kind of gw players :
- Old days farmers (rich)
- "After nerfs" players (poor...)
- Ebay users
- pvp players
The economy is totally unfair and unbalanced.
Look at the ecto prices : I've seen some players with fissure armor spamming TOA : "Don't sell ectos for less than xx"
"WTB ectos for [actual price + 5k]" (fakes offers to boost the prices)
When I ask them, they say "To keep prices high, to avoid players getting fissure armor". Of course they buyed their armor for ~400k, that's a good deal for them.
Anet should remove all nerfs of reset all accounts IMO. It's too much unbalanced to make me call this game "FUN" anymore.
Die_trying_inc
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Originally Posted by trelloskilos
Whether in PvE or PvP, your argument is a bit redundant. The influx of gold will be felt across the board, especially if several people buy the bot. The economy gets Nerfed, everyone gets p**sed cos their efforts of saving for hours results in very very little buying power, and all so you can go into combat with gear and upgrades that you didn't earn and don't deserve.
Bear in mind that in PvP, it's supposed to be a strategy game too. You may play several people who have the bog-standard equipment and skills, and you can still get beaten even with your 15k armour, runes of Superior Vigor and every skill unlocked. Why? Because they know how to play the game! In other words, if you want to fight other players, whether or not you've got the time, have the decency of accepting that you will lose NOT because your equipment isn't good enough BUT because you aren't putting in the time or effort to practice and perfect your PvP game. - There simply isn't any excuse for using bots for a quick money fix! |
I guess what I'm basically itching at is kind of cheesy. I'm not buying the gold, I'm paying somene for their time to collect it =/. I know that's the response from all the ebay sites but it just sound right for my particular situation.
Dax
The whole "I don't have the time to farm so it's unfair" justification is a very poor excuse for buying gold. Aside from the fact that you don't need expensive armor to PvP, the game was supposed to be designed around strategy and skills. They've gone through great lengths to make the game casual friendly.
Yea there will always be someone that can spend more time playing, and yes they have the advantage, but that is not unfair. I mean if you need help join a guild and have them help you get the things you need, atleast keep it in the game. To pay someone for thier 'time' thats doing it by botting and messing up the game is just lame.
Yea there will always be someone that can spend more time playing, and yes they have the advantage, but that is not unfair. I mean if you need help join a guild and have them help you get the things you need, atleast keep it in the game. To pay someone for thier 'time' thats doing it by botting and messing up the game is just lame.
Fatalis
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Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara
if you spend real money for fake game money/itmes/etc you really need to take a step back and reevaluate your life.. basicly what im saying is no, fake money is not worth real money...
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BigTru
It takes atleast 1 hour to make a consistant 10k. How long does it take you to make dollars?
Diarrhea
dude if u had alot of money in real life, and u like guild wars (which u prolly do) and ur parents/guardians/ -if u have, gives u permission, u know u would buy gold off ebay...everyone would like i said I would ..but im just too poor.
fubar121
OK So i asked GW support about the selling of gold and stuff on ebay and heres what the sent me back.
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Hello Jay,
Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars Support team in regards to you question about selling ingame gold or items for real money. Please take notice of the Rules Of Conduct Paragraph 11:
11. You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of buying or selling items for cash or trading items from one server to another.
This specifically states that you may not buy or sell items for cash. If you encounter any players who appear to violate our guidelines, please note the details of the situations and use our online help tool at http://support.guildwars.com to send us a message with that information.
Examples of important details are the name of the character, the time of the incident, where the incident occurred, a description of an offending action, websites being used, and any other details that you feel are relevant.
We will use the information you provide to investigate whether a violation of the rules has occurred. If we do find any rules to be broken, you will not hear of any rulings related to the incident and the account(s) involved, as all information related to the discovery and disciplining of an account will only be discussed between the violator and customer support.
Thank you for your support of Guild Wars, and for your assistance in keeping the game world a pleasant place for all players.
Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team
Quote:
So i think its illegal
Quote:
Hello Jay,
Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars Support team in regards to you question about selling ingame gold or items for real money. Please take notice of the Rules Of Conduct Paragraph 11:
11. You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of buying or selling items for cash or trading items from one server to another.
This specifically states that you may not buy or sell items for cash. If you encounter any players who appear to violate our guidelines, please note the details of the situations and use our online help tool at http://support.guildwars.com to send us a message with that information.
Examples of important details are the name of the character, the time of the incident, where the incident occurred, a description of an offending action, websites being used, and any other details that you feel are relevant.
We will use the information you provide to investigate whether a violation of the rules has occurred. If we do find any rules to be broken, you will not hear of any rulings related to the incident and the account(s) involved, as all information related to the discovery and disciplining of an account will only be discussed between the violator and customer support.
Thank you for your support of Guild Wars, and for your assistance in keeping the game world a pleasant place for all players.
Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team
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So i think its illegal
Dax
I think it's against thier EULA but not illegal.
fubar121
ya sorry.
Zaklex
It's against the EULA and a form letter is on file with Ebay informing them that any auctions relating to NCSoft intellectual property(of which GW is a part of) must be shut down at the earliest possible convenience. How does this happen, well, everytime an auction item is listed and the auction number is sent into Ebay by NCSoft/A.net people, Ebay investigates and if it matches the letter then the auction is shut down. At one time there were 10's of thousands of items on Ebay for GW, now it's down to 1301 or so, what does that tell you.
It was even posted on the GW website, it's not a secret to anyone, unless you live under a rock.
It was even posted on the GW website, it's not a secret to anyone, unless you live under a rock.
Chev of Hardass
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Originally Posted by Zaklex
it's not a secret to anyone, unless you live under a rock.
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Damn, did you have to point me out? ROF
fubar121
I was under same rock...
Just a lowly level 10 here
Just a lowly level 10 here
trelloskilos
But one thing you also have to bear in mind is that Ebay are also making money from the auctions. Their 'get-out' clause is that they don't actively police the site - they don't need to - they're a venue, and all listings are responibility of the seller. This is why you still see fake items pouring in. Ebay turn a blind eye up to the point where they start getting reports from buyers that items are in violation, and even then, they're slow to act.