Charr Lore

I'm sure this could belong to "The Riverside Inn" thread, but I didn't want to flood that area because things get clouded there quick. Plus I usually ask these type of lore questions in the roleplay threads

Anyhow I'm not the type of person who always see one side to things (i.e. Good has its evil and evil has its good) Just because someone belongs to a so-and-so good faction they are not considered good. Just because the Humans are defending themselves against the Charr does not mean that Human=Goodguys and Charr=Badguys.

So since that is out of the way. What I'm really interested in is the lore of the Charr and history and what not. Does anyone know really in depth (through playing the BWE and getting far into content) Know why exactly the Charr is invading? Is it some form of grudge against humans from some sort of past rivalry? Or is it simply in their nature to invade like parasites? (I hardly think that is one of the case) Because if their lore is as rich as the Humans in Ascalons then it would make for more of a greater possibility to add Charr as a playable race in future chapters.

I just love examaning more than two sides regardless if its proclaimed by the other side as to "good and evil." An instance of this would be Christians and Satanists... Each one has their view on the other and proclomation as to their beliefs and so forth. So so anyone got any deep info or as to their beliefs as to why the Charr is invading? Motives?

I tried to find lore on them at the main site, so far I couldn't find any so I made my own story. You're welcome to peruse it if you want to unless you already have. Seeking the same thing you are but since there isn't any, I made some. It's called "The Other Searing."

The Charr invasion derived from Gwenn complaining about a finger in her chili. Charr-Broiled (a major charr fast food chain) went out of business and thousands of angry, laid off charr swore revenge and Ascalon hasnt been the same since.

lol.. That could be the case....

(Is wendys going bankrupt because of it?)

I spoke to a charr outside of ascalon city. He said Prince Rurik peed in his wheaties, that was the last straw...

Well, before the conversation went to David Letterman level, I found this to be the most interesting thread on here for me personally. I was reading the manual and also wondered at the Charr's origins, not only their current apparent legacy of warmongering. They seem to be single minded in their pursuit, and such megalomania is rarely without a root cause.

I wrote a fan fiction tale about a charr being viewed from afar, and a White Mantle guy whispering into his ear, in effect appearing to influence charr behavior through some arcane "whisper" magics. Interesting, no?

This is actually a pretty good thought. Perhaps it's the same as the human instinct to conquer others, or perhaps it's the way it is with most animals (including humans) and space in their homeland has run out causing a need for territorial expansion.

Is it possible that the Mursaat were controlling them from behind the scenes, trying to stop the powerful ascalon empire from interfering with their plans? I mean if the charr could just do a little ritual and obliterate an entire nation, why wouldnt they have just done that long ago? I think they were given the power to perform the searing by some higher force.

(I have got another approach on this.
Warning, this version will contain spoilers to you if you haven't finished the game yet.)

So... what if all of this... is the doing of Glint and the ancient serpent race? Glint spoke about the prophecy of the Flameseeker, and as i recall those days of old... before i nearly lost my hand to this Hydra...
Well, i remember watching a small group of Charr carrying around huge pauldrons filled with fire. They were building temples for it. They were worshipping it like no tomorrow. What are the Charr? They are no dumb creatures, by no means... but they are cruel and not smart either. So who knows if Glint did not tell them their portion of the great prophecy?
If there was no war with the Charr... there would be no real heroes. We would still be lulled by our.. beautiful Ascalon. Yet, there was no peace. We were thrown into a cold blooded war that would change the face of ascalon forever. So in this moment... the White Mantle showed up. The great helping hand from far away. And we trusted them. They granted us our portion of asylum and invited us to their home.
Yet the voyage went darker still with every minute.
I, my dear friend, come to the conclusion that the mursaat were told their part of the prophecy as well. They might not have been evil to start with, but the prophecy of their own destruction made them angry and evil. Their servants of zealous kind just made things worse.
And then... we nearly lost to those white mantle. It looked as if we had lost everything if not... for yet another tool. Khilbron. He was told HIS side of the story. And he did HIS tries.

So, not to trait more of the way that lies ahead...
The only being profitting from all this mess is Glint.

The Charr? Her Tool.
The Mursaat? Her old enemy, yet a tool too.
Khilbron and the shining blade? Just another mere tool
Us? Her weapon.

Everyside lost in this war except for Glint.

pretty brilliant summary Feli... I actually have no doubt that she indeed designed the Flameseeker Prophecies, or at least saw them.

As for the Mursaat. I'm convinced that the Mursaat (and the "Seers") are of the same race. How is it that the Seers have the means with which to protect us from the Mursaat? I don't believe that they're on the same side (ref. Mantle and Blade) but I do believe they are the same creature. So who are the Mursaat? I think that they and their Seer counterparts are aliens on our world. I don't know why they've come though.

Can anyone offer some insight here? What did they have to gain from keeping the prophecies unfulfilled? What was special about the Gate of Something that they guarded it and kept it sealed? For that matter, who was their leader? We killed lots of bosses, but was their any Hablion? Was there any Khilbron?

As for Glint's why, she could be regarded as the benefactor of the Human race (and possibly of Tyria in general) I don't particularly see how she won in this, or what she personally had to gain.

I would say if any of wana go take a look around dragons gullut to find somthing on the charr history.

I've been up there, 1 temple ruin and lots of hydras and flesh golems, but no char.

You might meet a few interesting fellows there, eventually...

It was proven false, apparently that lady had pulled the same trick in other fast food restaurants. Although the finger was a first and only, they do not know where she got the finger from though.

my thought on the mursatt and the charr

i think the mursatt might be rebellious forgotten that betrayed glint and after hubdreds of years in the magumma jungle where the city was they have adapted and can now float lol

and as for the charr i just think that they were just an animal that eveolved for some messd up reason

I hope so...big waste of space as is. I was disappointed the first time i went there looking for something cool only to find...nothing .

I think it's fairly obvious how the charr came to be, not a "messed up reason" at all...ever seen TMNT2?

Me and a friend of my spent about an hour or 2 in that area and cleared it. The only Charr I saw during this were those in the beginning of the area.

The forgotten and encanted sword/bow/hammer guy are unaccended mursaat. glint was never on their side. the mursaat are from the ring of fire islands (not the jungle)gaurding the door of komalie to stop the chosen from opening them up and screwing them over.

I don't think there's a connection between the Mursaat and the Forgotten, unless it's a connection through animosity. The Mursaat have legs, while the Forgotten don't - it's a fairly big difference when it comes to claims that they were originally the same race that has been sundered. (Yes, there is a precedent - it could be something like, for instance, the reverse of the transformation of elves into naga in the Warcraft world - but it does seem unlikely.) There are theories that the Enchanted are in some way connected to the Mursaat based on similiarity of appearance - the most popular I've seen being that the Enchanted are made of the cast-off armour of ancient Mursaat or proto-Mursaat.

This does indicate that there could have been some conflict in the past, possibly from proto-Mursaat ascending to Mursaat or something to do with the Old Gods (the Forgotten being originally placed on Tyria as caretakers by the Old Gods and the Mursaat seeming to be seeking to replace the Old Gods with themselves, it's understandable how a conflict can arise). Alternatively, there may be no direct contact, with the Mursaat armour being supplied by the Seers (see below) for turning into Enchanted.

If you check the manual and talk to various Forgotten, however, it does become abundantly clear that there's a connection between Glint and the Forgotten - they're both servants of the Old Gods, and since being driven into the desert, the Forgotten have become direct servants to Glint. There's also a connection between the Seers and Glint, since the Seer in Iron Mines of Moladune refers to the heroes as 'the ones the dragon Glint spoke of'. How deep this connection goes is not clear (from memory, the Seers have legs too, so they aren't Forgotten) but there is clearly some form of alliance.

On the original topic - I have a suspicion that the devs may be looking at visiting the north in a future chapter. There are a lot of questions that could be answered up there (what were the watchtowers outside of Beetletun built to defend against? [SPOILER] How have the Charr responded to the manifestation of their gods (the Titans) and the revelation that their gods are mortal? (On that topic, that might answer the original post - they're aggressive because they worship entities that exist pretty much purely for the purpose of destruction - they could just be impersonating their gods) [/SPOILER]

this was origanally for charr but now we talking bout the mursaat and them asccending... anyways this thread just died.

In the Mhenlo quest to get from Tyria to Cantha, Mhenlo mentions that the Charr have been driven back to their homeland, so it looks like we won't be seeing the Charr for a while.

I was so hoping for a 12vs Charr invasion army mission sometime in the future

im guessing with the defet of there gods (the titans) there not up for any invasions anytime soon

It was the finger of a friend of her husband/boyfriend. The man lost it in some kind of machinery accident, and gave it to the boyfriend/husband of that lady to cover a monetary debt he owed

Actually, I think the Mursaat would be the last ones to help them. Take a long north of the Wall before the Searing and you'll notice some strangely constructed effigies. They look almost exactly like Titans...

Now, along the lines of your questing, you'll hear during Fires in the North, etc, that the Charr burn these effigies as a means of worship.

So, 2 + 2 = the Charr worship the Titans. In Last Day Dawns, they even fight side by side. The Mursaat are keeping the Titans on lockdown because THEY'RE afraid of them. I think there's much more to the Charr than what's on the surface, but going back and carefully exploring what's going on with this knowledge.

Do please take pictures of this so we may examine them :P

I have a pic of those effigies north of the wall in pre-searing on my other computer. I'll try and post a pic.

Then they just dropped their story into the dirt. I would of loved to see some continuation of the charr story line maybe in the next chapters to come.
Aahhhh I rember back in my days when I had just starting guild wars having a look around dragon gullet actually thinking I was off to yaks bend lol its a real shame they never put a outpost there.
Such a large area with only giant sized bones to look at(I wonder maybe dragon bones), it was one of the most interesting looking areas in the game.

I wonder what could of been further north maybe more charr settlement or a kingdom just like the humans ascalon settlement but run by charr, and the poor charr attacking the humans are just rebels or a more evil tribe like you see with the tengu. I did rember the manual for prophercies going on about how no one had gone far north and returned or lived to tell the tale.

Maybe some future chapter will have us all playing the Charr just before the invasion, going through some event that triggers it, and then at first winning only to be eventually pushed back and placed into some status those south of the wall have yet to discover...

We could get our low levels in 'Charr boot camp' training for the searing, and then the game forwards maybe four or five years as we come to in the Charr homelands and try to keep our individual tribes together as the Charr 'nation' splinters (sort of like what happened when the last of Genghis Kahn's ruling-line died and the Mongols fractured).

The chapter could end with the discovery of some great threat to both Charr and humanity alike, and we get the reason for the chapter after it - which has Ascalonians and Charr working together...


So... what exactly was up there in Dragon's Gullet?

On those effigies...

I think I took screens of everything up north save for those.

I've got some shots of the 'cannon' used for the searing, and of some unusual architecture. I remember the wooden effigies, and they're also all over post-searing missions, but I never screened them.

I've got one character left in pre-searing, and as I bring her up I will try to take a screen of what I -think- the effigies are. The quest to go north of the wall is one of two 'only in a team' quests in pre-searing, so a lot of people rush it as the quest goal is right near the entrence -but there's a huge explorable area beyond that that is visually one of the most fascinating places I've seen in the game so far. Getting a partner willing to let you wander around up there for half a day though is not easy. You have to get someone to let you go up there alone. But it is worth it if you like GW-art.

The Muursaat origin lies deep in the Krytan forests. GW lore states D'allessio walked through the forests for days until he found the Muursaat city.


And Glint didn't profit from anything; I killed her >=]

Lol you never know maybe the charr were drove mad by some predator in their homeland and chose to blame the humans, tho the boot camp idea does sound like fun heh. Nothing really much in dragon gullet besides big bones ruins of a temple in a big lake of tar. It would be fun to see what it looked like in pre searing. Theres a picture of grenth there to.

The reason of the charr invasion is imho obviously the lich.

I think this would be a correct summary of things:

- The lich while still alive found ancient texts mentioning the titans and searches more about it.

- The lich, while still alive, discovers that the charr worship the titans and with his knowledge ( and perhaps the scepter of orr ) he manages to communicate with them through telepatically impersonating (sp?) their gods.

- He orders the charr to assault the human countries who would abviously be a threat to his world domination.

- He blows up orr as part of his dark ritual to become a lich ( leaving everyone behind thinking that it was an unintended mistake )

- Now something goes wrong in his plan, the mursaat safekeepers of the titans, interfere and make with their magics guide that allesio to them, he didnt find them. they found him.

- Through the krytans they ( the mursaat ) are able to keep the scepter of orr out of the hands of the lich.

- The lich needs help and thus makes a pact with the rebels ( shining blade it was right? )

- from here on it goes pretty much like the game says.

some extra information

The mursaat were an ancient race who were almost utterly destroyed by the titans, they couldn't beat them. Instead they improsoned them and sacrificed humans to keep it that way. They first did it without getting noticed, but with the charr assaulting the human nations they needed to interfere else their victims would get eradicated.

This is all just guessing, below is some more of the extreme quessing.

The titans were lead by the seer that enchants your armor to be mursaat resistant. He used some kind of magic item wich was used in crafting the scepter of orr to command them. The seer was mursaat royalty, the mursaat royalty reigned over the normal mursaat with an iron fist in the form of the titans. These titans ensured that the normal mursaat did as the royalty said. But one day the normal mursaat rebelled and improsoned the titans and killed the royalty. The seer managed to escape and he fled to the southern shiverpeaks. After years of hiding the mursaat come to the southern shiverpeaks and he is forced to help you in order to push the mursaat back and take revenge for their rebellion.

Something to note:

The seer(s) was as afraid of the Titans as everyone else when they broke out. Of course, that could be that they no longer have control, but it's worth noting.

It's also worth noting for the record that it/they are an cahoots with Glint - the one in Iron Mines mentions being informed about you by Glint.

you explained the titan fear yourself ,

and the working together with glint can be easily explained with the fact that they share a common goal: defeating the lich.

My theory behind this is that ofcourse the seer would want the scepter of orr so that he could control the titans and rule the mursaat once again.

And seeing as it is unknown what happened to the scepter after the lich has been beaten the seer might have just been able to get it back . This could set a story for a future chapter, though unlikely since it would future a lot of the same enemies as in prophecies ( the titans and the mursaat )

Of course this is just all a theory and I could easily be wrong, though imho it's a pretty good theory that could be the right one .

Here's an interesting tidbit for you guys:

Many of the post-Searing Ascalon locations (the best example being right outside Nolani Academy) have what the Guild Wars lore terms a "flaming effigy -a tribute to their fiery gods", which looks exactly like a titan. This all but proves that the Charr worship the Titans as gods. However, there are more types of these effigies, scattered throught northern Ascalon after the searing, and they have the appearance not of Titans, but of... MURSAAT! Really, they do! There's one just south of the entrance to Grendich Courthouse if you want to see for yourself. Crazy shit.

Do you mean this effigy?



To me it actually looks more like the Lich, what with the wings on it and such. The Mursaat don't have wings, and the Charr worshipping the Titans as well as the Lich makes much more sense.

Of course, it could be anything really and there's no indication that it is the Lich at all besides some slight resemblance.

The Mursaat definitely have wings. Look closer.

Back to the original topic... maybe the Charr invade Ascalon because Ascalon was originally Charr territory, and the humans just drove them away a long time before the start of Prophecies...

Hate to burst your bubble, but A-Net has been insistent in their "Humans Only" policy. No other races. Ever.

Um...

1. There is no such thing as a policy like this]
2. Only two chapters into the game, so who knows?

In short, you don't know what you're talking about because NO ONE knows what they're talking about.