I'm tired of everyone saying to work around it and find a way to counter it. It finally happened and someone has finally taken it too far.
Those of you that haven't encountered the infamous 'heal ball' then you have no idea what I'm talking about. Those of you that have, were probably forced to leave cause there was no overcoming it.
Simply put, a group of rangers mass together and cave themselves in by spamming spirits. They keep all their spirits and themselves alive by using heal spring. Sometimes the spirit spamming gets so bad that you can't even hurt the actual people inside.
I'm sorry but I'm tired of fighting my way in HoH with a group until we come across this build. Everyone in the team automatically knows that we have to quit, cause there's simply no beating that.
Solution? Simple. I don't think Nature's Renewal needs to be made an elite, but something must be done to all this spirit spamming.
For one I think that spirits (since they are translucent in their nature) should not impede travel. It's a damn spirit.. you should be able to walk through it.
Second of all.. you shouldn't be able to spam spirits. You shouldn't be able to drop a spirit until after the first one is gone. It just doesn't make any sense to me how this was overlooked.
Something has to be done about these spirit spamming groups in PVP.
Desecration Station
Timoz
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, delete this thread ffs.
Look at the god damn forums, look at the god damn posts on this topic, reply and moan on them STOP starting a new one. Can a forum moderator please say something about all these threads on the same topic!!!!! Unless you want half a section of one of your forums taken up by complaining about NR and spirits?
One more thing, not just rangers using healing ball, its more effective with warriors try playing in the hall of heroes and being body blocked 3 times out of 4 consecutively with a healing ball and balth bloody aura.
Look at the god damn forums, look at the god damn posts on this topic, reply and moan on them STOP starting a new one. Can a forum moderator please say something about all these threads on the same topic!!!!! Unless you want half a section of one of your forums taken up by complaining about NR and spirits?
One more thing, not just rangers using healing ball, its more effective with warriors try playing in the hall of heroes and being body blocked 3 times out of 4 consecutively with a healing ball and balth bloody aura.
Desecration Station
You obviously haven't come across this kind of group. Or worse yet, you're a participant.
This thread has nothing to do with Nature's Renewal. It has everything to do with a certain aspect of the game being exploited to the max. If it takes multiple threads for it to be acknowledged by the devs then so be it. I'm a ranger myself, a trapper ranger, and it makes me sick to see what rangers are used for now.
This thread has nothing to do with Nature's Renewal. It has everything to do with a certain aspect of the game being exploited to the max. If it takes multiple threads for it to be acknowledged by the devs then so be it. I'm a ranger myself, a trapper ranger, and it makes me sick to see what rangers are used for now.
Imp
they just need to raise the energy and recast time.
Timoz
I believe they call it strategy its part of playing in a strategy game.
People use this strategy because its a good strategy and its a strategy which works. Yes, i use this strategy, recently infact im noticing people are becoming more adept at countering it, its not invincible otherwise it wouldnt be there in the first place, let the devs decide. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy there.
The devs will of course notice it, they don't make a game and not monitor what goes on in the main tournament of their own game.
I'm sure they won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again.
People use this strategy because its a good strategy and its a strategy which works. Yes, i use this strategy, recently infact im noticing people are becoming more adept at countering it, its not invincible otherwise it wouldnt be there in the first place, let the devs decide. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy there.
The devs will of course notice it, they don't make a game and not monitor what goes on in the main tournament of their own game.
I'm sure they won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again.
Aaaaagh
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Timoz
I believe they call it strategy its part of playing in a strategy game.
People use this strategy because its a good strategy and its a strategy which works. Yes, i use this strategy, recently infact im noticing people are becoming more adept at countering it, its not invincible otherwise it wouldnt be there in the first place, let the devs decide. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy there. The devs will of course notice it, they don't make a game and not monitor what goes on in the main tournament of their own game. I'm sure they won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again. |
I feel the need to give an example. Lets say we are playing my favorite game, AAAAAGHWars. Now, this game is 100% balanced(riiiight, thats possible), and its way more fun than GW, btw. Alright, I have a skill called NUKE!. You have a bunch of great skills too, like dart toss, duck and cover etc...but that doesnt much matter. When you play, you get to play vs other players, you usually do pretty good (you have really mastered the 'snake throw'). Then you come against me, and I just use my NUKE! on you.
Eventually, after getting NUKE!ed a few hundred times, you get frustrated. You come to the AAAAAGHWarsGuru board and suggest an idea to balance the skill. Of course, I reply with WTF! Loser, STFU, its called strategy, Im using strategy!!!
Yeah, you could just conform, and be whatever class gets NUKE!, but you like your class, you like diversity.
Get it? I got more examples...
Warskull
Just have fertile season stop affecting spirits. Giving all spirits +250 hp and +10 armor really makes taking one down before another goes up difficult.
For the most part spirit spam is fine. Just a few loop holes need closed. The big ones are fertile season affecting other spirits and nature's renewal destroying all enchants upon cast and being so spammable.
For the most part spirit spam is fine. Just a few loop holes need closed. The big ones are fertile season affecting other spirits and nature's renewal destroying all enchants upon cast and being so spammable.
Kaospryx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Timoz
I believe they call it strategy its part of playing in a strategy game.
People use this strategy because its a good strategy and its a strategy which works. Yes, i use this strategy, recently infact im noticing people are becoming more adept at countering it, its not invincible otherwise it wouldnt be there in the first place, let the devs decide. Notice my emphasis on the word strategy there. The devs will of course notice it, they don't make a game and not monitor what goes on in the main tournament of their own game. I'm sure they won't need telling in multiple threads the same thing over and over again. |
Hate
I have recently come across one of these groups and it PISSED me off! However we waited them out and won, it was excrutiatingly maddening, I hope they do something about it too.
Rossaroni
I've won against 1 spirit group, and I was in a spiker group. The key is to split them up, create chaos, take the control out of their hands. Tip: Cry of Frustration.
Regardless, a bit of balancing should be done towards spirit spamming in my opinion. A few valid solutions have been presented already.
Regardless, a bit of balancing should be done towards spirit spamming in my opinion. A few valid solutions have been presented already.
BigTru
If something needs to be done about Spirit groups, then something needs to be done about Spike Groups and Smite Groups.
Nature's Renewal destroys the effectiveness of your Profession? Ha! Welcome to the Warriors world.
Just a few skills that Warriors have to look out for:
Throw Dirt
Dust Trap
Ineptitude
Glimmering Mark
Eruption
Belly Smash
Fainthartedness
Spirit Shackles
Insidious Parasite
Price of Failure
Shadow of Fear
Spiteful Spirit
Tainted Flesh
Blinding Flash
Ward Against Melee
Armor of Frost
Blurred Vision
Magnetic Aura
Aegis
Guardian
Pascifism
Amnity
Shield of Judgement
Bane Signet
Feral Lunge
Lightning Reflexes
Dryder's Defence
Whirling Defence
Axe Twist
Devastating Hammer
Bonneti's Defence
Gladiator's Defence
Disciplined Stance
Defence Stance
Shield Stance
Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Ya know, just to name a few...
I hear by declare these all need nerfing. Better get to work A.Net
Nature's Renewal destroys the effectiveness of your Profession? Ha! Welcome to the Warriors world.
Just a few skills that Warriors have to look out for:
Throw Dirt
Dust Trap
Ineptitude
Glimmering Mark
Eruption
Belly Smash
Fainthartedness
Spirit Shackles
Insidious Parasite
Price of Failure
Shadow of Fear
Spiteful Spirit
Tainted Flesh
Blinding Flash
Ward Against Melee
Armor of Frost
Blurred Vision
Magnetic Aura
Aegis
Guardian
Pascifism
Amnity
Shield of Judgement
Bane Signet
Feral Lunge
Lightning Reflexes
Dryder's Defence
Whirling Defence
Axe Twist
Devastating Hammer
Bonneti's Defence
Gladiator's Defence
Disciplined Stance
Defence Stance
Shield Stance
Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Ya know, just to name a few...
I hear by declare these all need nerfing. Better get to work A.Net
Red Sonya
Look Rangers already get pindown, apply poison, poison arrow and quick shot, they certainly don't need to put all these spirits out there. It's not a strategy, it's an exploit of the mechanics of the skills. It needs to be looked at and adjusted. 15 jillion spirits out there in an arena is rediculous.
entropy
lol in arena i had this sprit spammer spam around 50+ spirits in one match i was the monk and we lost due to the fact that someone ran out of range and i tried to heal them and then i was out of range... It was nice 2 i had 1000+ health lol. And yes rangers get spirits 2 bad deal with it. Pin down its like hamstring... apply poison wow great necro's get to spread disease still 4 degen quick shot is kinda like frenzy and after all bows have a slower attack speed. God There is already 80,000+ threads about nerfing the hell out of EVERYTHING nr is overpowered i agree but complainging about spirit spamming come on...
If it kills you in an arena you know what i realize people do now? they come here and whine and complain it needs to be nerfed : (
If it kills you in an arena you know what i realize people do now? they come here and whine and complain it needs to be nerfed : (
SOT
Spirit spam?
What the hell?
Of all the idiotic....
Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. You whiners out there are saying there are teams of people, ranger/monk (?) or some variant on ranger who use those mentioned skills to create a "heal ball" to avoid losing a battle by basically being godlike in their ability to take damage while shooting your small braincase out?
This is against the game design and rules how?
"You don't want any deathsticks,I want to go home and rethink my life"
What the hell?
Of all the idiotic....
Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. You whiners out there are saying there are teams of people, ranger/monk (?) or some variant on ranger who use those mentioned skills to create a "heal ball" to avoid losing a battle by basically being godlike in their ability to take damage while shooting your small braincase out?
This is against the game design and rules how?
"You don't want any deathsticks,I want to go home and rethink my life"
eternal_drake
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BigTru
Snip.
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Born
Take a walk outside of the first mission past Droknars, theres about twenty ice imps out there all spamming level 20-25 (guessing) mealstrom at you. Its not very creative but it does kill you pretty fast.
The game encourages and even shows you how to use spam groups, not complaining just pointing it out.
The game encourages and even shows you how to use spam groups, not complaining just pointing it out.
Como Fort
Well people can have the exact same arguement for Smiting groups. I really don't see the difference here? If something has to be done about the spirits, then something should be done about the smiting. Thats understandable, right?
PieXags
It wouldn't be so bad if it took some skill to spirit spam and be affective. The part that pisses me off most is that anyone, no matter how new to the game, can read through the descriptions of the spirits, and spam the hell out of them, simple as that. There's no skill or strategy involved in spirit spamming, I mean hell why the hell would we call it spirit spamming if it did? It's not the same as mass health-degen with a necro (or some rangers), because you actually have to be on the ball and keep track of things, whereas in a spirit spamming group...just spam spirits, it'll make you near invincible. I know because a new member to our guild a few days ago, new to the game, just wanted to PvP, just unlocked those skills...and was just as successful as me who's been playing since the games release and in the betas. Just kinda pisses me off at all, it doesn't take talent to spam every skill in your skill slot.
Spirits are basically like immobile minions like necromancers have. There still hard as **** to take down if you've an army of them, only difference is they don't attack on their own, they just make a solid wall and affect the battlefield. Only unlike necro minions that depend on bodies, ranger spirits don't depend on corpses, or anything of the sort. They can spam and spam and spam as much as they want.
Spirits are basically like immobile minions like necromancers have. There still hard as **** to take down if you've an army of them, only difference is they don't attack on their own, they just make a solid wall and affect the battlefield. Only unlike necro minions that depend on bodies, ranger spirits don't depend on corpses, or anything of the sort. They can spam and spam and spam as much as they want.
Como Fort
Well obviously A.Net or whatever don't mind or they wouldn't of made spirits in the first place. Don't you think the developers think of these problems in advance, and don't you also think that it really is up to them what happens? IMO, I think they will stick to what they created because they obviously like it just the way it is. It was created that way.
Imp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Como Fort
Well obviously A.Net or whatever don't mind or they wouldn't of made spirits in the first place. Don't you think the developers think of these problems in advance, and don't you also think that it really is up to them what happens? IMO, I think they will stick to what they created because they obviously like it just the way it is. It was created that way.
|
Like I said before, don't limit the amount or anything, all they need is a raise in energy and recast time. The recast time should be 90 seconds, around the amount of time they live. And the energy cost raised (if dust trap can be 25 energy why can't some of the spirits). Thus them needing to raise more points into expertise. The fact that they all cost 5 energy makes it so they don't really need points into expertise. With the right group, you can still spam and still be effective.
Como Fort
Quote:
| until 75% of the games population hates that idea, you would think that would change it right? |
Quote:
| Like I said before, don't limit the amount or anything, all they need is a raise in energy and recast time. |
Imp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Como Fort
Can you ever really be sure that 75% of the games population hates the idea? Not everyone on Guild Wars uses this forum you know.
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dargon
The problem is defining "mass majority". Out of 400000 accounts/copies sold/whatever, how many are active posters on forums etc, maybe 2%? Of that 2%, it seems about 1/2 think it's broken and the other half think it's fine, so we're down to 1%. !% sure isn't a mass majority from my perspective.
Imp
I'm not talking about the forums, I'm talking in general.
Stop making it so complicated.
Stop making it so complicated.
raven214
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Imp
Like I said before, don't limit the amount or anything, all they need is a raise in energy and recast time. The recast time should be 90 seconds, around the amount of time they live. And the energy cost raised (if dust trap can be 25 energy why can't some of the spirits). Thus them needing to raise more points into expertise. The fact that they all cost 5 energy makes it so they don't really need points into expertise. With the right group, you can still spam and still be effective.
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Dan Mega
As I said before, there ARE ways to beat us spirit spammers. Yes I am one of them and I love using them. No skill or strategy involved? What do you think spirit spamming is? ITS A STRATEGY, AND ITS LEGIT!! There are ways around it and some people I guess are just not good enough to counter it...
Kaospryx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Como Fort
Well obviously A.Net or whatever don't mind or they wouldn't of made spirits in the first place. Don't you think the developers think of these problems in advance, and don't you also think that it really is up to them what happens? IMO, I think they will stick to what they created because they obviously like it just the way it is. It was created that way.
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Mr. Matt
I'm not sure I've ever seen such a strategy before. Sounds like a pain in the rear to take down though. I was always under the impression that a strategy this effective was the ultimate aim of any game...
Did you know that 92.52% of statistics are made up?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Imp
until 75% of the games population hates that idea
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Imp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dan Mega
As I said before, there ARE ways to beat us spirit spammers. Yes I am one of them and I love using them. No skill or strategy involved? What do you think spirit spamming is? ITS A STRATEGY, AND ITS LEGIT!! There are ways around it and some people I guess are just not good enough to counter it...
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Anyways, all you do with a spirit group is click a few button. While other groups call targets and count down on TS.
Como Fort
Well I've decided I'm fighting a losing arguement so there really is no point bickering. I'll just wait until you guys find something else you can't beat and watch you moan about that as well. Until then, I'm in the sidelines ^^
Druids Arrow
*Start Mini-Rant*
People complain about rangers moaning? Look again. If people are complaining about spirit spammers consider the reasons why rangers use the sprirt spamming strategy.
Rangers hardly ever get picked in ToPK. Honestly I don't know why people complain about rangers spirit spamming.
Warriors out-Tank Rangers
Elementists out-Damage Rangers
Mesmers out-Counter Rangers
Monks out-Heal/Protect Rangers
So Rangers group together to take down people who can't see the usefulness of a Ranger.
*End Mini-Rant*
People complain about rangers moaning? Look again. If people are complaining about spirit spammers consider the reasons why rangers use the sprirt spamming strategy.
Rangers hardly ever get picked in ToPK. Honestly I don't know why people complain about rangers spirit spamming.
Warriors out-Tank Rangers
Elementists out-Damage Rangers
Mesmers out-Counter Rangers
Monks out-Heal/Protect Rangers
So Rangers group together to take down people who can't see the usefulness of a Ranger.
*End Mini-Rant*
Chrisby Pwns
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Imp
they just need to raise the energy and recast time.
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Chrisby Pwns
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dan Mega
As I said before, there ARE ways to beat us spirit spammers. Yes I am one of them and I love using them. No skill or strategy involved? What do you think spirit spamming is? ITS A STRATEGY, AND ITS LEGIT!! There are ways around it and some people I guess are just not good enough to counter it...
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We have tried Smiting, worked... only until natures renewal was thrown down.
We have tried Spiking, Fertile season gives them too much health.
We have tried EoE, that worked once, then they killed us the next round.
Honestly Spirit Spamers are not LEGIT!! they are a really big problem that needs to be nerfed.
Thanas
I once killed about 20 spirirts using 2 putrids!
Snuk the Great
I think the initial idea of making it possible to walk trough spirits is oke. I am a ranger myself and I wouldnt mind, the anoy me sometimes too 
. Making the natures renewal elite might be possible too, but then they should upgrade the spirrit too (recharges faster/stays longer/higher level or something).
. Making the natures renewal elite might be possible too, but then they should upgrade the spirrit too (recharges faster/stays longer/higher level or something).
Chrisby Pwns
Quote:
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Originally Posted by entropy
quick shot is kinda like frenzy
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Quick Shot is NOTHING like frenzy.
1: frenzy makes warriors kill themselves rather fast.
2: Quick Shot is an elite
3: frenzy attacks 25% faster, Quick shot is 200% faster
Your such a noob.
Cymboric Treewalker
What amazes me is that just a short while ago everyone was saying that Rangers could not be effective in PVP. There was no place for them in the game.
Now they are the elite kings of the Ring?
No... this game has proven to be quite balanced, but this is a new move and the counter is not wide spread yet.
It is there - trust me.
Now they are the elite kings of the Ring?
No... this game has proven to be quite balanced, but this is a new move and the counter is not wide spread yet.
It is there - trust me.
Cymboric Treewalker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chrisby Pwns
Sure there is. Other Spirit Spamers. Pfft loser, everyone knows that there is no way to beat a spirit spaming group that knows how to do it well. My guild is very agaisnt spirit spamers. Sure we have beaten them, but only maybe a few times.
We have tried Smiting, worked... only until natures renewal was thrown down. We have tried Spiking, Fertile season gives them too much health. We have tried EoE, that worked once, then they killed us the next round. Honestly Spirit Spamers are not LEGIT!! they are a really big problem that needs to be nerfed. |
Red Sonya
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Como Fort
Can you ever really be sure that 75% of the games population hates the idea? Not everyone on Guild Wars uses this forum you know.
I think thats a fair enough idea coming from a Monk. A little compromise is always appreciated. At least your not shouting about making Natures Renewal an elite. IMO, I think Imp has the right idea ^^ |
Then when you see something "nerfed/changed", it has come from a conglomerate of emails, phone calls, snail mail and forum postings and from the developers minds eye of what they want the game to be and be in the future, thus, nerfs, more nerfs and continued nerfs basically for as long as the game survives. Everquest as old as it is still has the ole "nerf bat", though not as often as in the "early days" which we are clearly in at this time with GW's. And in beta, beta is to look for "bugs" mostly and the working mechanics of the game, not necessarily for every single loophole and exploit, because when you have 1000 people playing, you won't find as much as when you have 10's of thousands of people playing. Thus they rely on "feedback" by us the gamers to help them determine the next path of "nerfing/changes/additions" they need/should make.
Make Natures Renewal an ELITE.
Give it longgggg cast times and recast times should be according to the amount of time the spirit is on the map. So if it's up for 120 seconds, it should take 120 seconds to recast it.
Dan Mega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chrisby Pwns
Sure there is. Other Spirit Spamers. Pfft loser, everyone knows that there is no way to beat a spirit spaming group that knows how to do it well. My guild is very agaisnt spirit spamers. Sure we have beaten them, but only maybe a few times.
We have tried Smiting, worked... only until natures renewal was thrown down. We have tried Spiking, Fertile season gives them too much health. We have tried EoE, that worked once, then they killed us the next round. Honestly Spirit Spamers are not LEGIT!! they are a really big problem that needs to be nerfed. |
PS- Only the elite can beat the spirit spammers. If you can't, might as well go back to playing D2.