Here's Something NOT All Players Will Know

Well, you've got a good rant going and the usual disenters agreeing with you, but no actual proof of anything. No emails that you sent, no responces from ANet, nothing.

Lets take at what we know about the poster "Join Date: 08-04-2005", hum, thats today. Number of posts? Seven. All in this thread. So no standing in the Guru community.

So what we have is someone who just created an account on the fourms, bashing ANet with no real proof of anything that actual gone wrong other then his own tale. And this has happened to no other people so far (and this thread has 810 view as of this post).

If this doesn't have trolling written all over it, what does?

Maybe the OP was just using some "friendly" (or at least he thought it was friendly) keystroke macros while he was afking in Lion Arch.

One thing I have to say, "OH MY GOD". It's unbelievable how some people really know how to make an ass of themselves. Instead of asking "can you provide some quote / emails" this one goes ahead with the sarcastic remarks...

So from what Rothgar implies, one would have to be a member here for what? a year and with perhaps another 800 posts, so that the problem can be classed as truth instead of lies? Good thing this guy isn't a moderator, btw Rothgar you'd make a VERY bad mod Perhaps Rothgar expects me to post all 14 emails / reponse this guy is a joke.

Here are some attachments with names erased for obvious reason (yes even the GW Support's username is removed). As I've said in the posts above, I did NOT log into the game hundreds of times aday, the only time I need to switch characters is when I'm moving items or trading.

So did I make up this story to have a stab at Anet, answer: NO. Am I correct on saying I've been banned for 6 days, answer: YES (date in first email 29th July, today 4th August)

No, making an ass out of yourself issuing personal attacks against people who bring up valid points of an argument. As you have quoted my post, I know you've read it, and as you can see, there are no personal attacks, just valid points and a conclusion in the form of a question.

Obviously you didn't like my conclution and set about in proving me wrong. Which you did (provided those pictures aren't faked, but I doubt someone would go that far unless their extreamly pissed off, so I'm willing to concede their real).

As for being a member, yes, if someone who's been here just a month, with some valid posts on other issues, had posted the same topic I would have put much more weight in it. Someone signing up to the fourm only to rant is suspect.

Now if you want, you could thank me for pushing you to provide proof. Some people might actually believe you now.


Hum... a second thought, what excatly are you trying to accomplish with this thread other then venting? Right now the only good thing I can see coming from it is a warning not to switch accounts too much.

1) That first part of my last post was directed to you simply because the first thing you said was a sarcastic insult. Oh and btw all my other post to other people were friendly.

2) I started this post to let people know what "may" happen to them and so they don't end up in the same boat. Perhaps someone at ANet might see this post and decide that the "switch character button" isn't such a bad idea. "Maybe" some other player with the same problem can shed some light on to this. How do other people know of a problem if no one posts them?

I have heard this for over a week now. Does anyone have a working link to a news report or an obituary that actually states this? Or is this another one of those internet rumors that pops up on occasion? If someone has a link, I'd appreciate seeing it.

Thanks!...oh and if it's a link to that Christian forum site, that never worked for me...so...a newspaper report/magazine report/obituary would be good.

no they never did

by the way the poster at the christian site was a new member and his only posts were the so called suicide and the screenshots only showed parts of the scam and a melodramatic threat of suicide scene.

if somthing like that happened the media and senator whosits would have been frothing at the mouth on the dangers of these games (EQ suicide remember?) while not giving the name to protect the name of the minor.

the scammed person posted here and sounded mad not depressed

this sounds exactly like a setup to get back at the scammers not a suicide

amazing that he had access to the victims pc and everything else

i think they were all one person under different names

Geez that does suck with the banning.... id go nuts if I was banned like that for a week or more. I too switch characters a lot when I'm trying to sort out my loot. Currently I have a Necro who is holding all my weps and dyes.... I think we need more storage so we won't be doing this multi-login stuff so much. I wish the storage would add 20 slots for each character you create after each one pays to open the vault dealie.

USE your mats! Get someone you know and trust to STORE stuff in theirs!

Do you have all bag slots on your character with BAGS on them?

I love this game, and totally agree with the opening poster. At the end of every gaming session I log out and log in about 12 times, 8 to shuffle the items and 4 more to double check each character.

Char 1 - gold items and collector items (ie. thorny carapaces)
Char 2 - runes
Char 3 - dyes and unidentified gold/purple items
Char 4 - junk, upgrades
Storage - craft materials

I desperately wish that Anet would include a Character change screen and perhaps even a Xunlai at the Character change screen... I collect items. I don't trade, I don't want to get ridiculously rich... this is just how I enjoy the game, I like having 100 dyes and 1000 irons. But it's so annoying to log out / long in so much. And no it's concerning because of this poor lads undue punishment.

SOT you're not being very logical here. So what, everyone's supposed to give stuff to their friends and just hope that they give it back? Also they're supposed to just count on their friends to hold stuff for them, despite the fact that if you need someone else to hold things, that they problably don't have room?

I feel for the OP, he's right, there really isn't enough space in the storage. Lets put it this way.

You should not be able to carry more things than you can fit in your storage. That's just pretty stupid, IMO.

And people say Anet has good customer support....

Uhoes, I personally log in and out of my account an alarming amount of times since I switch from my farmer, to my monk, to my runner, or in and out of my pvp character slot, I might even dare say over a hundred times in one day, but I've never gotten TEMP-BANNED for it.

Appreciate the warning.

For some of us, there will never be enough space in storage. If anet ever decides to add 1 extra slot for storage, that 1 extra slot will quickly be filled by the next piece of junk we find.

This is most likely what happened, but only is what I think happened.
Pending on your connection speed, and your connectoin to their server, Anet could have come to the *assumption* that you were logging characters in an attempt to dupe items. I can explain...
You move an item from, say, your warrior/monk to the storage, and immediately exit out. Perhaps the system lags, and your warrior keeps the item in both his inventory and the storage. Anet catches this *log* as a duping attempt, and bans your account a week with no questions asked until they can investigate.

They find out that their system screwed up (possibly) and apologize for the inconvenience.

^^ Just a theory at what happened.

I guess it's appropriate to hop in with a bit of information. You can be very, very sure that we would not block an account without a good reason. The number of logs would have to be exceptional for us to even note the situation.

I am not talking 5 or 10.
I am not talking dozens.
I am talking many more than that.

One way that people try all sorts of cheats -- hacks, dupes, account stealing -- involves log-in tricks. When we see what appears to be an enormous number of logins, we investigate. When we see other supporting information, we take action on the account. Yes, we gather logs and they are very detailed indeed.

I don't think we need to apologize for doing this. In fact, I think we would need to apologize for not taking action to keep the game secure.

Thank you for responding.

If you have solid evidence of hacking that warrents banning, instead of banning the offender temporarily, why doesn't anet ban him/her permenantly?

wait... so Anet knows everytime I sign in?... I dont know if to respond with "thats cool" or "now im scared"

at least we know it was all in the name of security, i guess it could have been worse

Yeah thats a great idea. First of all, they had reasonable evidence, players just disagree with this. I can understand the need for frequent character changes, but due to what I just read from gaile, theres no reason for 100 or more.

Second of all, if you hate the game community and developers so much, please leave the game. Theres no point in revolting over a one week ban. Even if they did make a mistake. It's a mistake, everyone makes them.

Also, filling their inbox will do nothing but take time away from the unread and possibly urgent mailings. It may also get your email automatically sorted out and trashed. Sending continual and useless mail is childish and only proves that you would rather start problems, as opposed to fixing them.

And since you're a consumer, you have to right to be a griefer? Grow up. So having a problem of your own, warrants creating problems for others and the guildwars team? Once again, grow up and if you're this angry over the matter and at the guildwars staff, please leave the game. We have enough griefers and whiners as is.

im think im going to agree with you on this one... just seems everyone is out to get Anet, if i got a week ban id shrug my shoulders and play another game for a week, just be happy its only a week ban

From another website, there is a suggested "possible" duping exploit which involves zoning and logging out/in (and something else which isn't considered as normal gameplay) with another person. I think the OP is testing it. Lucky for him he was only hit with 1-week ban. Anet should permenantly ban all hacking offenders.

The ArenaNet staff aren't the narrow-minded idiots some people are describing as far as Banning goes, for these reasons:

1. They check the logs, get reports of scammers, and notice exactly what you type to other players and such.

2. They don't just ban people because of a lot of logins. Sounds to me like you were duping a bunch of noobs into giving you items or somehing, and then quickly switching your char name in hopes of fooling ArenaNet with different names... but of course im only guessing, and you would never admit to it.

3. Don't you think they have better things to do then listen to your lame ass emails about unfair banning when they only ban a handful of players a week which are the biggest abusers of the system and such.

4. They want your money, and they know that doing things such as unlawful bannings would entice you to not buy the expansion .


You say unlawful banning, and I say sit down, shut up, and wait the week; It's not gonna kill you. Although it will postpone your trips to the new areas.

oh damn Gaile already responded, guess I didn't have to say nething.

Yeah, I also have to wonder why, if ANET is so sure that the guy was trying to hack, why isn't the guy banned for life instead of temporarily? They're either saying that hacking isn't an offense warranting a permanent ban...or they're afraid that they may be wrong.

I figure it's a 3 strikes your out system.

Can you give a legit copy of the emails sent or something? If you have personal information, just wipe it off the screenshot. But if you post the general point of this to the public, Anet will be forced to rectify this error.

This might sound nosy, but it'd be nice if any of these replies you give come with solid proof. If you could give some logs of what this player was doing, shown in the publics eyes, provided that both sides seem to agree with each others proof being valid, then there shouldn't be any problems. I find it ridiculous though I can't do anything about it, that people can make claims without any sufficient proof. How much is many more? 50? 100? 100000? You say you gather logs, may the public see it to prove justice? Or is this just a test of faith? As credible as you may be seeing as your a employee of Anet, I don't think the topic poster should be taken for less just because he is a simple player while you are the PR of Anet.

Ultimately, a thread like this has people like me wanting to get the the bottom of this, and while it may end up gruesome, seeing as only three things can happen ( being either the OP is wrong, Anet is wrong, or a truely honest mistake ), it doesn't seem to be impossible to do.

Gaile, I'm more than 100% sure I did NOT cheat in game. If I had a day when I needed to log into my "own" account then I will do so (may it be trade or character deletion). Has there been any items that suddenly appeared in my inventory without going through the normal process such as trade / salvage / loot drop etc? I can safely say NO THERE ISN'T!

Another point is that there is no message to hint that logins can be construded as a "hack attempt". So without a message to alert and suddenly "temporarily banned" I should be "happy" with my 1 week ban?

Even if ANet does decide to provide proof, let's just hope they are honourable enough to provide the exact and not the manipulated version to work in their favour. Big corporation aren't exactly famous for thier "customer interest" nor "honesty" when it comes to covering their mistakes / reputation .

On the off topic, it's amazing to find some people such as Takkun to "idiolise big coporation", thinking because they're big they must be right... Well if ONLY this is the case, wouldn't the world be a better place Here's a reality check, big coporation does NOT mean they are always right or honest, and yes they DO make mistakes but are too stubborn to admit.

Thanks for that reply Gaile, I don't have to be worried about re-rolling my PvP char now when I run out of refunds LOL

Yes I know this could be a subtle hint but it's not - I'm just trying to be funny

I think any banning, temporary or not, should be accompanied with an email explaining the ban AND a logfile with evidence.

Thanks for sharing. I shall be more cautious when doing the same thing that you do.
While my elementalist has collected lot's of bows for my ranger chars, I have to do a lot of switching chars too.

It's utterly stupid to ban an account for logging in and out.

Don't bother to contact support. They usually don't know what you're talking about, and if they do they don't understand anything.
They can't even do simple tasks like removing ridiculous terms from the word filter list.

You don't have much experience with support (any company will do), do you?
Your support-story is no surprise to me.

I'm not.

Welcome to my world anyway.

Why is it that everyone assumes that ANet is -always- to blame? It is NOT in their best business interest to ban accounts/people without ample evidence. Given the rampant bot situation and the presence on the Net of all sorts of ideas for game exploitation and hacking, they MUST take an aggressive stand against it. A lot of you posting in this thread are also people who complain about bots and exploiters. I would rather have them banning accounts (and as Gaile said, only with ample evidence) and shutting down exploitative loopholes than the converse.

No one needs to be logging into and out of their account hundreds of times at a sitting. And this wasn't just the one time, according to what Gaile indicates ANet looks for -- it was MANY more times than that. The red flags aren't going to go up on a single incident. While the OP might have been giving this new exploit a try and was otherwise a "law abiding" player, it doesn't change the fact that he/she tried to exploit the game.

If you HONESTLY didn't, email ANet or, better, give them a telephone call and ask for more explanation specific to YOUR situation. You're not going to get it here on a public forum and, really, would you want that? They are the ONLY ones who can answer your question. Trying to garner support for your cause here doesn't do you a whole lot of good.

So false positives are just casualties of war?

No one needs black dye.
No one needs farming.
No one needs to do the bonus on missions.
No one needs to do anything.

If exessive logging in-out is banishable: why isn't that included in the EULA?
Why isn't it stamped on the box: Beware: logging in too often will get you baned.

That's what I love about support: They give you such incredibly precise numbers.
"many more times". What's that? Fuzzy logic for 50? 60? 70? 200? 300?

Do you REALLY think that the devs anticipated every hacker's potential for exploitation? That's pretty naive. And, given that we're not talking about the death penalty here, I do think a few false positives are fine if it shuts down bots and other exploiters who, in the long run, will spoil the game for everyone.

It is not our place here to make a judgement as to the "rightness" or "wrongness" of the OP's or ANet's claims. I leave that up to the people that know what the entire situation is rather than basing my decision on the OP's or Gaile's posts. If he has a problem with the decision, he needs to appeal to ANet or NCSoft and find out more detail. Obviously, Gaile's response here indicates that -she- is aware of his personal situation. I am sure that, asked the right way and to the right people (NOT tech support since this isn't a technical issue), he will get the answer he needs...though he might not like it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I don't want to know every instance of banning or the whys. It serves no purpose to come here, or to any other forum, and make a lot of noise about being banned. As with naming names, there is little or nothing that can be done from HERE. The only ones who can solve the situation are the people who run the servers. All a post like the OP's does is stir the collective angst of people.

My point exactly, if they consider logins to be interpreted as hack attemps, why then is there NO message or some form of notice? We all understand that fact the EULA cannot possibly cover every aspect of future hacks. However, the game HAS a dynamic updater so is it so hard for ANet to add a small notice at the login screen? The region switching certainly has a message to indicate 5 times so why not this?

Yes bots are bad and may ruin the economy of the game. However banning people who have not done wrong does not help the game in anyway.

Aniewiel & Gail post's make total sense to me.

Since "we" do not know the full details of Arena-Net's actions it is real hard to make a judgment.

All I know is if something like this happened to me I would email to A-Net, Snail Mail to A-Net, and use up my cell phone battery calling A-Net (Figuring I would be on hold most of the time).

I would be a bulldog and not let go until I had results.

Oh...And I would be very pleasent but Firm when dealing with Arena-Net.

No, banning innocents doesn't help the game. That's why the you, FX8, need to be, as Old Warrior Dude said, a bulldog until you gets the situation resolved. Call ANet/NCSoft. Write ANet/NCSoft. Email ANet/NCSoft. It cannot be solved here. We have neither all the information nor the power to make any change for you.

My post came before Gaile Grays post. Since Gaile took the time to comment on the OP's problem, i see no point in calling me a "whiner" when i was merely providing what little support i could give to the OP based on the relatively little information at hand.
Granted, my post looks a little OTT in a certain perspective but at least we have learned a valuable lesson from the topic....don't relog into your own account many times.
The OP got a decent reply to his problem which would have been better resolved if he had got a proper reply from support in the first place instead of Gaile having to do it.

Calling someone a griefer and a whiner and telling them to grow up isn't very productive either.
Nevertheless, i won't take offense. I am better than that.

I'm glad FX8 will have his account back soon.

Given the time the devs spent on developing and given their experience with other games I'd say, it's not naive.

Compromise. Say WoW all of a sudden bans Leeroy Jenkins by accident. Are they going to say their sorry, admit that their flawed, and have people possibly doubt them? Or are they going to look straight up head held high and have people possibly believe that through concepts like yours, there should be no reason to lie to the public. I'm not saying Anet is lieing, but they certainly are not giving any proof that their not innocent either. But of course, innocent until proven guilty, which is why generally in big companies, you would not see companies be open with their mistakes, because it causes unstability in customers and potential stockholders and that's not even including other stuff like partnership, etc. By holding your head up high, your only risking fanbase, not partnership, not stock holders, not anything that is outside of your direct pay. There is a reason you won't see Microsoft go "ok guys sorry we screwed up on section blah blah blah", because it's just a smarter choice to say NO WE DIDN'T, even if you did.

That's a flawed statement, as your giving the benefit of the doubt to the company, and not the players. If unbiased, it would be rewritten as "I would rather have them banning accounts even if there might be some mistakes and shutting down exploitative loopholes than the converse." Showing doubt does not always mean disloyalty or doubt, just cautiousness.

Gaile has not said 100. She has stated "many more" then 5-10. How someone interprets it is their own, and does not mean Anet has to abide to interpretations. This is a PR technique. If they were confident, they could've given the exact number even if they choose not to give further proof. It shows confidence. And that puts trust into customers.

I highly doubt someone would rant specifically on a forum before doing it on email to Anet, assuming it was a honest mistake by him. But it could be possible.

But what does that achieve? You stir angst of the people, the people get mad, and instead of 1 potential customer for future packs, you have many customers, this is plain logic. If you tried everything, or if you want to get your own problem attention, you put your own specific problem in the spotlight, and draw from it the greater picture. While it is a very cheap move to use if your lieing, it's still a move you must make if your honestly bullshitted. Unless you plan to sue Anet, which you'd still need people's interest most likely, public media is the only way to truely get your way. The easiest thing to do is to encourage investigation, and find out which side is lieing if any. This will produce results that are concrete and that will satisfy the media customers, because they don't care which side is the winner, as long as their is a winner, if at all.

But we can encourage Anet/NCSoft to get to the bottom of this, after all this is GWG, a powerful site that holds many players. While dodging the bullet may be wise, there are those that would question a company should they choose not to be upfront about it. Just like people would question the actions of their country, their business, etc etc. Everything can be justified, as long as you can prove it.

Perhaps you haven't read my previous post where I've CLEARLY stated "I enjoy this game aside from the..." (scroll back and read *hint, on page 1*). I can assure you that anyone would be just as frustrated if they had been wrongly accused of something they did not do. Everyone makes mistakes, it's common decency to appologies if you've made a mistake.

Useless email is based on perspective, this did not happen to you so I would not expect you to care. However I should only hope this happens to you and see the look on your face. As for fixing the problem, how would I fix this problem considering I have no access to any proof / logs / access to their database? Do you think I can "unban myself" to fix this situation?

This clearly shows you need growing up. Either post constructive opinions or leave it, insults have no place in discussion .

I don't think that ArenaNet or NCSoft owes US anything. They don't have to prove their reasoning behind bannings or any action they take against player accounts. This is -their- game and those are -their- servers. If they perceive (note the word perceive) that someone is hacking or that someone is exploiting a loophole or that someone is in violation of the EULA, they have every right to ban the account without warning or publicity. They have told us repeatedly that they will NOT give out details on their punative actions against player accounts.

*shrugs* I am not really taking a stand one way or the other. I leave that in the capable hands of the people who have all the information: FX8 and ANet/NCSoft.