VAB Nothing left to say.

Guild-Hall Messenger

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Deadline to fix the game for Arena.Net

August 10, 2005

What must happen? The ability to acquire skill points and skills in a timely fashion. One hour should unlock enough skills to create an entirely new build. 7 Normal Skills and 1 Elite.

Why they must do this?

To save the game, and PvP.

How? Increase faction gain 25x in arena, 20x in tombs, 15x in guild versus guild.


The problem: It is too hard to get someone interested in PvP.

Why? It is to hard to get them set up with a decent build and playing in PVP.

My experience? Leader of Blood Eagle, training up some of the best players of today, creating interest in PvP, and have currently had some of the greatest player go through the ranks of Blood Eagle, some notables are, Lulu the Monk, Sheep (the pank video and raising the dead), Kreiger, Katsu Moto, and Krazy Kaution.

What are my qualifications: Alpha tester, and person with good foresight for how features affect games (not that hard.

What is the reason behind my posts lately? A last ditch effort to save Guildwars, it is currently dying in all respects. I am fairly sure Arena.Net can look up statistics, and although they might not listen to me, I hope they can read numbers. (Korea).

Why this is important to me? I love Guildwars the game, but am unable to enjoy it.

Now the example. Right now, right this instant, I could start reviving PvP along with all the other guilds. If it was actually possible to create the build you wanted instead of being forced. I could take the current BE members I am in contact with, restart the guild and turn it into a training ground. We could run numerous pre made builds that Blood Eagle has developed. I could train a lot of players in a short amount of time if they fixed skill acquisition through faction. The only problem and restraint on me at this moment is Grind. It would take hours and hours and hours of PVP to even begin training let alone get them hooked. The only thing holding all the pvp back is the DAM that is skill acquisition. Holding back a lake and ending up with a river. This example is extremely valid.

Why this one example and one person means anything? Because, I am not the only one.

Final words: Arena.net can fix this now or wait for chapter 2 to fail. We can start working together to bring the game back up, or be separate and see it fail.

You might look on me as some crazy poster who is just disgruntled. I am a very smart person actually.

Save PvP now.

This will be my last post, unless PvP is fixed so we can enjoy it again.

Deviant

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

Quote:
This will be my last post, unless PvP is fixed so we can enjoy it again.
Heh. Somehow I don't believe this.

Other than that, I don't see how imposing your own deadlines on a software vendor is expected to be met with any results. An analogy would be walking up to you and saying, "I want a sandwich by 12:15." Your reply would rightly be, "Uhh, no." or "Who are you?"

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

Increasing faction results in a PvP game where PvE'rs can't go in and compete fairly anymore. Face it... with faction, you can unlock any bloody skill you want. PvE'rs need to find where the skill they want is and hunt it down, often relying on luck of the spawn. It's an unfair advantage for the PvP crowd, yet the PvE crown doesn't care enough about it to bitch.

This is even more unbalanced regarding items, where the PvE'r may go out and never find that 5-1 vamp string, yet the PvPer can go to Baathlazar Mart and pick one up off the shelf.

The "numbers" regarding Korea... are you talking about the business licenses sold? That's only a small fraction of the actual users, multiple users per license.

primal98

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

In that case, I demand free full expansions by 24.12.05

kleps

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/Mo

wow how nice! set an ultimatum for the developers so you can enjoy a game again!

Linkie

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

Norway

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild-Hall Messenger
This will be my last post, unless PvP is fixed so we can enjoy it again.

Finally. I care as passionately about fixing PvP and removing the forced-grind as any other PvP players, but all these new topics popping up everywhere are really starting to annoy me. I don't mind whining or flaming, if it could only be kept to 2-3 topics max.

Gedscho

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

the Zen Men

Mo/W

do it or else I WILL KILL OINK

(doesnt mean those are bad ideas)

stumpy

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

is this a joke?

add:

I want underworld drops nerfed

I would like to see monk runes double from 40K

I demand to see PvP archery contests so the rangers can do something more than SS

I demand to see PvP 1v1 warrior jousts so they can do something

I demand that tombs battles have tea times so my elitist friends can all discuss the diversities of opposition between battles and add one more silver platter to there stack ...

While your at it ... wtf omg gimmme UAS or I'm leaving

(hopes your leaving back to guild-hall, I dont intend on shooting the messenger, but you sound like a broken record)

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
MSecorsky for some reason every time you post I get the feeling you've never played this game
I knew you couldn't stay away.

Can you or can you not use faction to unlock items? If so, what's the PvE equivalent?

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleps
wow how nice! set an ultimatum for the developers so you can enjoy a game again!
EVEN BETTER
a promise not to post anymore if they dont do it

the rabid *DINGbats* who have to keep level grinding have gone most of the ultra hard core pvp are going

that leaves.............

the people who are having fun with the game as it is.......speaking of which i have a spare 45 minutes so i will explore a bit..
have fun as i certainly will

SOT

SOT

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

East Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild-Hall Messenger
Deadline to fix the game for Arena.Net

August 10, 2005

What must happen? The ability to acquire skill points and skills in a timely fashion. One hour should unlock enough skills to create an entirely new build. 7 Normal Skills and 1 Elite.

Why they must do this?

To save the game, and PvP.

How? Increase faction gain 25x in arena, 20x in tombs, 15x in guild versus guild.


The problem: It is too hard to get someone interested in PvP.

Why? It is to hard to get them set up with a decent build and playing in PVP.
I disagree with that. Every single PVP match I have personally participated in, without exception, in the random zones, has been a nightmare, and it has nothing to do with anets handling of skill and faction distribution. It has to do with the asshole people I get lumped up with. They refuse to speak, be it a formal or informal greeting, be it a tactial plan of action or a command of strategy, be it praise or scorn. They simply await the opening of the gate, then tab-attack whoever and fight. There is no solidarity or cohesion in the community, as far as I can see.

This is not a software/game engine/feature problem, this is a human beings acting like asses problem.

I think that one potential fix for this would be for anet to write into the game a feature which, if soundly implemented, would search the online area's for pvp people that are in your friend's list or guild, who are also in that arena area, no matter the district, and try to match you up on a team when you randomly enter a match. It would cut waaaaay down on the moron's I consistently lump up with, who, for reasons beyond my understanding, hate to lose, but refuse to work as a TEAM to accomplish the opposite of that which they hate.

Gains from PVP are not the problem, people are the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
I knew you couldn't stay away.

Can you or can you not use faction to unlock items? If so, what's the PvE equivalent?
Go to a priest of Balthazar, and read the deep-red text above the list of what you can unlock. The unlocks only appear FOR your PVP character. Therefore, PVP equivalent has no place in your question. It simply is FOR PVP, so what the hell?

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
The PvE equivalent is farming gold. Which, is faster than using faction to unlock skills which is why smart people do this:

Use PvE for skills.
Use PvP faction for item mods and runes, since these are effected by drop rates and drop rates are virtually 0 in PvE.

Hi, I'm common sense but you wont find me lurking in a PvE thread!
So, uber-genious, you're requiring that someone build a specific farmer character then just to be able to keep up with the PvP faction system? Sounds like there's too much benefit to faction then, if the PvE'r has to develop a farmer and spend countless time trying to find that specific item, or over spend to some other farmer that happened to find one.

The faction system is a good thing for the PvP crowd. Plenty powerful. No need to jack it up to rediculous levels because some folks want it all and want it now.

Makkert

Makkert

Black Beast of Aarrrrgghh

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB] // Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild-Hall Messenger
Deadline to fix the game for Arena.Net

August 10, 2005
oh you can't be serious.
you know you are in no position to set a deadline. As much as you like to. What if they don't make the deadline, you do what? Leave?
I'm sure they will sleepless nights from this ultimatum.

SOT

SOT

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

East Texas

I actually read over this thread in its entirety after my post, and realized I was sucked into YET ANOTHER troll festival

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild-Hall Messenger
This will be my last post, unless PvP is fixed so we can enjoy it again.
...we can only hope.


Not that there might not be some legitimate pints - but the continual flooding, accusation, paranois, and negativity is getting old.

Here's a simple solution - if a game isn't living up to what you hoped - LEAVE! Reasonable feedback is one thing - an organized campaign of negativity that infringes upon the enjoyment of many others is another.

Drakron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
The PvE equivalent is farming gold. Which, is faster than using faction to unlock skills which is why smart people do this:
That is damn lie and you know it, even if a player farm the gold he have to find someone selling the item he is looking for and ID items are NOT unlocked, the player have to buy a un-ID weapon and hope it have something he have not unlocked yet.

There is no PvE equivalent of fraction for PvP in relation to weapon mods and runes.

Quote:
Use PvE for skills.
And what word he used ?

Was it skills?

No it was ITEMS, he never touched skills since we KNOW it can be faster to unlock skills in PvE.

Quote:
Use PvP faction for item mods and runes, since these are effected by drop rates and drop rates are virtually 0 in PvE.
What he said?

ITEMS!

Basicly you just shown you cannot read other people posts because his examples was that PvP can get ANY item at ANY time as long they have enough fraction and that is something PvE simply do not, the unlock system penalizes PvE players since they have to ID items to have then unlocked.

Quote:
Hi, I'm common sense but you wont find me lurking in a PvE thread!
Too bad common sense was posted before ... you simply did not read it.

Diomedes

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Blue Island (think Chicago)

Me/N

Quote:
Hi, I'm common sense but you wont find me lurking in a PvE thread!
Hello Mr Sense,
I must say, you've been rather scarce of late and your evil brothers Mr Sarcasm and Mr Hyperbola have been dressing in your clothes and parading around. Please reacquaint yourself with both the GW fan community and the devs. I remember when I used to browse these forums and see arguments that you took part in. Your father, Evidence, used to join in too. I miss those days.

In the meantime, I think I'm going to take some aspirin and hope that the mods start to be a little more aggressive and at least "prune" the number of threads on this topic down to one or two so I can find threads about henchmen arguing and such again.

-Diomedes

Linkie

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

Norway

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakron
That is damn lie and you know it, even if a player farm the gold he have to find someone selling the item he is looking for and ID items are NOT unlocked, the player have to buy a un-ID weapon and hope it have something he have not unlocked yet.

Why would a PvE player care if it was unlocked or not if he doesn't use PvP characters?

Louis Ste Colombe

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild-Hall Messenger
This will be my last post, unless PvP is fixed so we can enjoy it again.
That's the best part.

I almost wish PvP is not fixed so that would be truely your last post. Really that "unless" clause annoys me.

Louis,

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
Why would a PvE player care if it was unlocked or not if he doesn't use PvP characters?
Because when you've taken a PvE char through the game and built up something you're proud of, what's the logical next step?

PvP.

Is it fair for a PvE char to then face characters that have everything in existance already just by merely existing?

To jack up the faction rate provides grotesque imbalancing in the PvP/PvE overlap.

SOT

SOT

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

East Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
Why would a PvE player care if it was unlocked or not if he doesn't use PvP characters?
It begs the question: Half full or half empty?

Nice post

Drakron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Because there is no end game, when we done with the storyline we have PvP.

The game pushes players to play PvP, look at HoH that have chests with weapons on it as a reward ... what is the use of such weapons for a PvP player?

What I point out is the fraction system greatly rewards PvP unlock system in relation to items and PvE simply lack a similar system.

So let me put this way, if you PvP people want PvE player to join "the fun" you expect such player to have somewhat equal equipment and with the fraction system its highly unlikely PvP players and PvE players have equal equipment, PvP have a advantage of items and PvE have a advantage of skills.

asdar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

I hope you're serious, I'll be counting the days and hope to never see another "fix this or I'll quit" Thread. Only five more days and another puffed up rooster will be gone.

Xellos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

No Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
MSecorsky for some reason every time you post I get the feeling you've never played this game
Oh please, you've never even went to GameFAQs probably. Two letters for your reaction: Q.Q

Quote:
oh you can't be serious.
you know you are in no position to set a deadline. As much as you like to. What if they don't make the deadline, you do what? Leave?
I'm sure they will sleepless nights from this ultimatum.
Don't underestimate the power of PANK, some have divine powers *cough*

Quote:
I actually read over this thread in its entirety after my post, and realized I was sucked into YET ANOTHER troll festival
You know, it's nice and all that GWG is such a friendly atmosphere, because we really need a place to settle this PVP vs PVE E-Peen crap.

Tigris Of Gaul

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
Why would a PvE player care if it was unlocked or not if he doesn't use PvP characters?
Well, if he's talking about unlocking through PvE...

There are two systems for unlocking. Through PvE (leveling characters) and through PvP (faction). Leveling characters is far easier for unlocking skills and faction is far easier for unlocking items and runes.

They need to make them equal. So lower the costs of normal and elite skills to match how you get them through PvE, and instead of dropping armors and rare weapons in PvE drop unlocks.

Santanus_Perro

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Scott Township, PA

Iron Rangers

W/Mo

I don't understand the whole PvP vs. PvE thing. Both sides think grass is greener on the other side. The whole argument is getting old. What is hurting PvP is that the average player can't find a group to play with, and when he/she does, they can't be competitive in any of the PvP areas where you can put a team together (non-random). Why is this? Because the people at the top want to stay at the top, so they don't mingle among the commoners to teach. Why is the Professional Golf Association doing so well. Because the thousands of golf pros love the game, and try to teach others how to play the game (alot of time for free).

The PvPers want a better PvP environment? Then step up and be leaders and teachers.

Drakron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

I propose they just drop the ID to unlock nonsense, I get a weapon and any mod on it gets unlocked if I dont have it.

I would also propose they give a purpose to the weapon crafters in the game by allowing then to either sell upgrades or craft upgrades.

Then they can lower fraction for skills.

Drakron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Easy to get gold in PvE?

Have you played the game?

borkbork

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Me/

Gold is quite easy to get in PvE... I have so much gold, yet so little skill points...

Think about it. Without farming for xp, you're not going to get anywhere close to enough skill points to unlock stuff on your character at the end game. You might only have enough for the elites. Maybe barely enough. Anything else requires hours of bashing mobs, boring UW runs, just so you can unlock a skill.

LoneDust

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakron
Easy to get gold in PvE?

Have you played the game?

Are you trying to say that you are having difficulty gathering gold in-game?
PM me your in-game name and I'll give you 1 plat to help you finish crafting your yak's bend armor.

Xonic

Xonic

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

Can I post a deadline too?

by Aug 15, 2005, all my characters need to be level 30 with max dmg + 10 weapons and 30k armor, and with all skills unlocked including elite ones.

Drakron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

No its not ... I hate people that make a Monk/whatever and go farm a area and say "I have so much gold, its easy" ... sure its easy because you are using a build designed to farm only.

Thats why Monks vanish from missions around ascention, they are too busy farming.

Not to say about the ones that got rich in the gold giant boots days, before the nerfs.

Regular players dont do it, they make a character and play the game and they end up with around 20-30k in the end, sure its a nice amount of money if the game economy was not shoot to hell and drops did not suck.

Xellos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

No Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakron
Easy to get gold in PvE?

Have you played the game?
Your a brave lad, but ye will not survive the night when BlackAce comes back aye.

I mean, seriously, you do realize that you literally killed your credibility on this forum as "someone who has played the game" right?

Edit: EEEEEPPPP, Zee BlackAce has already begun teh slaughter!! Run for yer lifeshhzzz!

Quote:
Regular players dont do it, they make a character and play the game and they end up with around 20-30k in the end, sure its a nice amount of money if the game economy was not shoot to hell and drops did not suck.
I made a warrior after all those nerfs, and it has like, 50k in the personal storage alone. 15k armour, and uh yeah really good stuff I bought at LA trades. I played a total of 34 hours with it. I don't know what game your playing, but clearly you've been using that cash somewhere *cough* dwarven ale and lapdance *cough*

warren_kn

warren_kn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

London, England

Quote:
Originally Posted by borkbork
Gold is quite easy to get in PvE... I have so much gold, yet so little skill points...

Think about it. Without farming for xp, you're not going to get anywhere close to enough skill points to unlock stuff on your character at the end game. You might only have enough for the elites. Maybe barely enough. Anything else requires hours of bashing mobs, boring UW runs, just so you can unlock a skill.
Wow, I didnt realise this was a problem. I went through the game with my first character and unlocked all of the skills for her (Mo/R). I didnt do any farming to get extra exp. to generate more skill points, the exp. gained from playing the game "normally" was enough.

Xellos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

No Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by warren_kn
Wow, I didnt realise this was a problem. I went through the game with my first character and unlocked all of the skills for her (Mo/R). I didnt do any farming to get extra exp. to generate more skill points, the exp. gained from playing the game "normally" was enough.
You had around 100-150 skill points total when you beat the game? Hot damn, I didn't know you could level up that much.

Xonic

Xonic

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakron
No its not ... I hate people that make a Monk/whatever and go farm a area and say "I have so much gold, its easy" ... sure its easy because you are using a build designed to farm only.

Thats why Monks vanish from missions around ascention, they are too busy farming.

Not to say about the ones that got rich in the gold giant boots days, before the nerfs.

Regular players dont do it, they make a character and play the game and they end up with around 20-30k in the end, sure its a nice amount of money if the game economy was not shoot to hell and drops did not suck.
so what are you saying? all the best items should be affordable to everyone? what items you "must" have that you can't get from crafting/collecter nor drops?

I have only played 2 characters to 20 and both just reached forge area. and I've max armor and max dmg weapons on my characters without much effort, mostly from drops and collectors. I've gotten lots of runes from drops too.

and I still have 20k in bank.

no, I can't afford godly uber max dmg gold bow, or major vagor rune (althought I've gotten many vagor runes, include 2 major ones, from drops, didn't spend a dime) for 300k or whatever. but you know what? I don't care. I can play the game without them just fine. and eventurelly I'll get a drop, or find a good deal if I need it.

if I need a max character to PvP that badly I'll create an PvP character.

Xonic

Xonic

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by warren_kn
Wow, I didnt realise this was a problem. I went through the game with my first character and unlocked all of the skills for her (Mo/R). I didnt do any farming to get extra exp. to generate more skill points, the exp. gained from playing the game "normally" was enough.
I played the game normally and when I reached forge, I spent I thought over 1k to unlock a dozen skills that I hadn't gotten yet. Yet, I still have over 20 skill points let.

I wonder why some people don't have skill points.

Drakron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
You cant be serious? I know your not having trouble getting gold in game...
I farmed for about a week in Witeman's Folly, of the drops I got there I only sold 2 to players and most of my income was from the huge amount of tanned hide that I salvaged and the necklaces I traded for the collectors item outside that I then sold, I had to use 4 henchman to clear the area without being slaughtered.

To fight the boredom I did Snake dance that net me around 2-4 plats each run but that is a very long, very boring map (less boring that intensive area farming) so I never play it much (perhaps 4-5 times).

It payed for a 75k set (well 60k set).

So yes, I have trouble to get a steady supply of gold since drops suck and we cannot even do chest runs (Witeman's Folly have around 4 chest that might net you around 1 plat if you hit then all) since Arena Net likes to spawn pop up monsters near then and you have 6 azura shadows spawning right next to chest ... well you are not going to loot it, also Arena Net considers it a exploit.

I know some people here say gold is easy and it perhaps was before the drakes were buffed, the flesh golems were buffed and their drops nerfed, griffins drops were nerfed, Hill Giant drops were nerfed.

Mayar third Keeper

Mayar third Keeper

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

rofl

is this the new UAS thread?

Xellos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

No Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonic
I played the game normally and when I reached forge, I spent I thought over 1k to unlock a dozen skills that I hadn't gotten yet. Yet, I still have over 20 skill points let.

I wonder why some people don't have skill points.
How many skills do you have unlocked?

Quote:
It payed for a 75k set (well 60k set).
75k in one week not enough? Please, you can only hold 100k per character in the first place. Stop being greedy.