FREE = The Most NEGATIVE posting I have ever seen.

You know what, you're totally right. For example, these forums are free, but every day I check them, there's people moaning about the content of the boards and threatening to leave.

com-pet-i-tive-
Of, involving, or determined by competition

you take 600 hours to unlock everything, John from Winchester takes 600 hours to unlock everything, Michael from Pomeroy takes 600 hours to unlock everything.....you're all still competitive. You don't need access to every single useless skill, every meaningless upgrade, every redundant weapon to be competitive. 90% of the PvP builds are based around the same 10 skills anyway.

This game is fun....if it fails to be fun tomorrow, well, I still got my $50 worth.

A common belief amonst Forums is that people think their opinion is that of the Guildwars Community. Criticism is correct and it is needed. Senseless bashing is bullshit. Trying to backup your arguments with made up numbers or the words "every pvper" thinks so is nonsense too.
However, only you and your ego are thinking this and can say you do. You can't and should not speak for others. However that is what makes criticism turn into senseless bashing. A few people, let them be 10 or 20 think THEIR Opinion is GOD and without failure the opinion of _everyone_ out there except for those damn fanbois.
And that is the matter here.

And this is why GW won't have much of a future when it comes to expansions.

Close minded people like him.

For all those who claim they've been outright conned somehow by false advertising.

The game box also openly advertises that there are character levels, it does goes out of it's way to say they're quick to gain, but it's hardly quantum physics to figure out that you won't start a new character at maximum capability. Sure the absolute optimum can take a while to reach, but it takes a fraction of that time to reach 90% of that, and 99% for a couple of individual builds.

You could spend days farming for a max enchantment wrapping, or you can just settle for the 12% one and get a 34 second enchantment instead of 36, your not gonna loose every match because of it. Runes can be a pain, but if you're absolutely desperate for one for a particular build you can just buy the rune and transfer it across to your pvp character.

Besides, if you've not managed to eek even one moment out of enjoyment out of the game on the way to making a pvp ready character, and didn't even find one small part of your first few days a pleasure, your expectations are rather high, and will probably find pvp itself a let down.

Look past the negative aura of the posts - understand the source of the problem. The root was from deep seeded problems with the game - critical flaws that were introduced untested at release.

People talk about the game being only 3 or 4 months old. Think about this. The game was originally intended to be released in mid or second half of 2004. In the extra year until it was actually released we expected they were taking their time to iron out all the little problems. Between beta weekends they changed and tested things at a very fast rate.

On release they made it hard to get elite skills and didn't have skill charms or gems, thus increasing the grind. People are still complaining about the trading system and asking for an auction house which they have been doing since last November. The trade system makes a lot of people unhappy. It's failure to act on things like this that make people unhappy. The late introduction of faction with a gimped reward level was also infuriating.

People don't enjoy making negative posts for no reason they are driven to it by actual problems with the game. Try to understand instead of judging people for complaining without appreciating and truly empathising why.

I love Guild Wars more than .... no let's not go there.

If you don't like people whining, then I wish you luck in your own little universe. Take a look out the window and you'll see everyone whining about everything - that's life. Maybe we could express ourselves a bit better, but so could you it seems. There's no need to throw your toys out of your pram.

It's also a little ironic reading about people whining about people whining.

Now you've got me doing it

And have you ever considered that a vast number of people don't want a UAS, even those of us who have completed the game more than once? Hence why ANet can't and won't ever make a vast, wide-sweeping change like that based on the complaints of what really amounts to a handful of players. Demanding changes without considering how it will affect a large number of other players isn't much a community spirit if you ask me. If they're ever to make such a change, they would need to find out the opinions of as many players as possible, not just a few regular forumers. This is something a large number of people fail to understand and refuse to acknowledge.

No, they don't. I didn't start one though. I agree with parts of it, is all.

Well whenever a member of ANet or NCSoft comes near the forums, a lot of boot-licking emerges as though people think that by sucking up to them they'll receive some kind of free gift or something. But a lot of those threads are balanced somewhat by the extreme moaners coming in and throwing insults at the staff such as calling them 'liars', which again, serves no-one.

And yes, I know what a good critic is. My point is, there aren't many of them around here.



I'd take a lot of these suggestions a lot more seriously if they read more like suggestions and less like ultimatums. Perhaps if one is going to suggest a drastic change to the game (UAS, for instance, or a drastic change to the way favour works), one should first carry out some kind of small -- but significant and varied -- in-game survey to find out if it's just them who wants such a change, or if a majority of players want it. Not only that, but ANet would probably take it more seriously.
Perhaps adding in some compromise, easing off on the insults and irrational emotional outbursts (I HATE YOU ANET! and the like), and generally thinking in terms of the whole community, instead of just yourselves and your close friends, would add to that. Of course, we'd still get the people who once in a while start threads just to tell us they're quitting the game.
Gauging opinion in a forum such as this is of no use to anybody; as someone mentioned before, content players don't feel a need to come online and express their problems as much as a discontent player does.

And yet, when someone actually finds that 'uber build', there's uproar and people demand a 're-balance'. Any wonder why ANet has trouble accommodating everybody?

Maybe to "YOU" it is a grind, to me it's FUN AS HELL. I enjoy the excitement when I finally find a superior rune or a max dmg weapon with the best stats. Hell I would have already quit this game if everything came so easily without having to adventure for it. That's what Diablo 2 gave and that's what GW's gives as well. GW's just needs to tweak it a little more where there are more attribute/level requirements for some things. A level 1 shouldn't be wearing Droknars Armor, that's about my only complaint/gripe, oh and Spirit Spamming in the HOH arenas, those two are my only complaints/gripes.

I'm starting to see the whinning PVEers now for what they are and want. They want "everything" from the start. lol Ain't gonna happen, might as well quit now if you expect that or expect "everything within a months play". lol I like PVP also, but, I like the fact that PVE is required to get the best of the PVP world. Makes it more like a mmorpg instead of just a senseless brainless pvp game like Shadowbane is, and we all know how crappy it is and how it's barely surviving with less than 50000 players now. Might even be less than 20000 haven't checked the chart recently.

GW's has something for everyone, but, if you can't find what it has for you, then quit, it's highly doubtful you're ever going to get your UAS and that's what most PVPers want. But, before you go....Can I have your stuff??

As much as I like the game, to say it does't need improvements (*cough *cough traders) would be absurd.

Any game isn't perfect, over time the suggestions and tweaking according to the suggestions people make is what makes a game better and closer to perfection.

That depends, most of the stuff that is considered "bullshit" is because A.net didn't get rid o them in the beta.

Spirit builds...easy solution. If someone else summons the same spirit within the radius of another spirit, the previous spirit dies. That includes another team's spirit.

Simple, isn't it? It's just A.net is too slow to respond.

That way, only a few spirits remain on the field and it becomes a battle of controlling the environment. YOu cannot make walls of spirits if two copies of the same spirit cannot be together.

Smite builds? If you don't have enchantment stripping, you deserve to lose. Smiters are easy to defeat. You can cast backfire on the smiters and strip the enchantments of the warriors. Most of their build is finished.

Spikes are easy to counter, so let's not even get into that.

It's pretty sad that with the numerous skills in the game, people can only come up with three specific builds. I've beaten HOH with an AMERICAN PUG group with NO VENT or TS without using smites or spirit spamming.

But whether or not the issue is acted upon isn't the thing here. What I'm trying to say is that someone who unlocked all skills (which takes a lot longer than just finishing the game twice), has a lot more say about whether or not the skill unlocking mechanism is good. That's actual playing experience right there, and as such a valuable source of information to ArenaNet. Whether or not ArenaNet decides to address these complaints is something else entirely - the complaint can't just be dismissed (in the case of UAS, the typical fanboi dismissal was "you're just lazy!", which to someone who unlocked close to or all of the skills is just hilarious).

Sure, there are still a lot of players taking their time moving through the game, and as long as they have lots of terrain and story to explore, I'm sure they won't understand why people are upset about being bored, or about grinding, or whatever. They won't support UAS (or any other measure to improve item/skill unlocking, because things are fine! - UAS is the most extreme example of a suggestion, and as such a rather lousy example of a typical complaint). Does this group count as much as the people who did play through the entire game several times already? The latter group contains both satisfied and dissatisfied players, don't get me wrong - just saying they would actually know what they're talking about.

There's a simple saying in customer feedback: 5% of dissatisfied customers will complain. The rest will leave and not come back. This is why I think it's not wise to dismiss the complaints of a minority simply because there are many satisfied people still playing.

the problem isn't negativity.
it's your lack of sense of humor =p.

I do agree there's lots of moaning and groaning, but welcome to internet forums. heh.

Hi, my name is Kyeo138, and I love Guild Wars. Thank you.

[one should first carry out some kind of small -- but significant and varied -- in-game survey to find out if it's just them who wants such a change, or if a majority of players want it. ]

Lol problem with that is, one person goes out and finds 1 other person to agree with them and all of a sudden they represent the "majority of the community" lol Not one person can supply any hard data that a majority of people want basically any change in the game. Of course we all see the same ole statements " a LOT of people want this or don't like this or are going to quit (but without any hard backup data)", well that ole statement doesn't constitute a majority either. I play with and see A LOT of people everyday in GW's and yah know what, I dont' see any whinning or complaining on a large scale at all, maybe every 100 lines of general chat someone says something about the high prices of Dyes/Runes, that's about it though. lol Now I'm a MAJORITY cause I play with and see A LOT of people everyday in GW's. hahaha

[There's a simple saying in customer feedback: 5% of dissatisfied customers will complain. The rest will leave and not come back. This is why I think it's not wise to dismiss the complaints of a minority simply because there are many satisfied people still playing.]

What you LEFT OUT of that statement and business sense is no company expects 100% return of same customers. They "expect" a loss, some upwards of 10% and maintain a prefectly fine business while the whiners and complainers leave and go somewhere else where they either are part of the 90% or the 10% once again. I don't like Walmarts, but, I shop there because even though I've had my encounters with them, they still have the best overall savings on products that I purchase. Same with GW's, it certainly doesn't cater to my every 100% requirements, but, it is sufficient enough to enjoy without 100% fulfillment. The fact that it's FREE to play puts it way up high on my list of online games to play even if it isn't the perfect game. No game ever will be and I'm intelligent enough to realize that, nor will any game cater to my every need. So, here I'm pretty sure GW's is getting that 90% customer satisfaction and not worried at all about the other 10%.

No, no, you're incorrect. You don't need to unlock every skill in the game for your classes to compete, so your comparison is false. You can unlock a choice 30, 40 skills and if your build is based on those skills, well, there you go. So yes, it is a game based on skill, how well you use the skills you have. There's nothing false in the synopsis.

Ok my last 2 boots on the subject...I think someone may have said this if so welldone that person if not...here it is.

-constructive critisism, ok its sometimes harsh but much needed.
-Critisism, Peoples opinions basically

Internet forums like loads have people have said...thats the way they are.

Obs

consider this

1 the GRINDMONKEYS (TGH term and the most negative GWsite out there) stated that without more levels they and their friends were leaving and the game would be gone shortly

guess what...........most are still having fun

2 the rabid *self proclaimed* competitive person who is unwilling to do the work he/she thinks is needed to compete (UAS/UAU/UAEVERYTHING)

you left saying the game will go poof without you

guess what...........most are still having fun

conclusion

this is a game for the TRULY CASUAL player and not targeted at either extreme

did i say most of us are still having fun?

Gee, most of the people who didn't leave the game yet are still having fun? No kidding, Einstein. That remains true even if 99% of the players already quit the game - the remaining 1% still has fun, so it's a rather pathetic argument why ArenaNet shouldn't worry about people being dissatisfied.

I'm not suggesting their complaints be dismissed at all, I'm suggesting that their complaints be aired in a more constructive manner. There may well be a valid issue with any criticism, drastic or minuscule, but as I've said, coming to a forum and simply saying 'ANET ARE LIARS! THEY PROMISED NO GRIND BUT THERE IS! I HATE YOU AND WILL NEVER PLAY YOUR GAME AGAIN!' serves no purpose whatsoever. That's not criticism, that's just bitching. And that's the only reason I use the UAS issue as an example -- it's the most common issue to be expressed in the least constructive manner.

I have no problem whatsoever with criticism of anything, and will always correct someone if they say that something is 'perfect' as that serves no purpose either. My problem lies with the people who decide to express their problems in a wholly negative way, and with no concern for any other players.

There are at least 2, counting me in.

the argument is that you are in the minority....this forum is in the minority. We comprise less than 1% of the total Guild Wars community....the other 99.x% haven't felt the need to find a forum on which they can bitch and moan about the games shortcomings...therefore Guild Wars is doing pretty well.

This is the point that many here have tried to make over and over. NO ONE discounts the idea that things need improvement. What turns a lot of would-be supporters off to these very valid concerns is the way in which those concerns are presented. Not only are a lot of posts about improvements filled with vitriolic language, cursing and condescending language, they also lambast those of us who, for the most part, still enjoy the game. As soon as I see "carebear" and "n00b" or words to that effect, I stop reading.

I love the game (so that makes at least 3 of us! LOL!) and still agree that there is great room for improvement.

::drone like voices echo:: Hi, Kyeo138



(Did he just start a 12-step program for Guild Wars...? O.o)

there is always room for improvement ... "take that old calculator and through a clock in it ... call it a ... computer"

anyways that makes 4 ... I still play every night ... I have a full time job but still manage to clear 850 hours since release. I know, I am not sure how either ... but I love the game so ... why not ...

Like I said, most people just leave without a word. Others don't like reading forums, let alone post on them. Claiming this '99.x%' are all satisfied with Guild Wars is preposterous; if anything, take this forum's population as a representative sample of the Guild Wars population, i.e. a standalone percentage of people who enjoy Guild Wars enough to frequent forums about it.

I didn't say 99.x% are satisfied. I said 99.x% is comprised of Adults who don't feel the need to complain about something as trivial as a game + people who are satisfied. The .x% are the children who feel they've been ripped off because they're $50 didn't buy them endless happiness....

I've been playing Guild Wars for a solid 30 days now. It's a decent game and like any software program has it's good points and low points.

wow this thread is hella trivial.

So you're generalizing that everyone who complains is childish, and those that don't are mature. It ends right there, arguing with stupidity like that is pointless.

no

i was stating that the most rabid of BOTH extreams are leaving/have gone and that those people were never the intended target group of the buying population.

therefore their leaving/not buying is no concern to their business model

if they drop money on the first one that is gravy that was not xpected to begin with.

i am saying they seem to be aiming at (and pleasing) a specific game buying segment

no more no less

I have played for 300 hours for about $50. That is about 16 cents an hour. I think I have got my moneys worth. Any improvements or updates are just icing on the cake. I can wait for them.

I think this is the overall point:

Is the game perfect? I don't think anyone is saying that it is.

Converseley - will this game (or any game, for that matter) be everything that everyone wants it to be? Of course not.

So like most games - it comes out - there's a rush to get it. Some people (like some of my friends) play it through - they are done, they move onto something else.

Others play it, find out it isn't really what they wanted - and they move on.

Of those who stick it out - many enjoy it, despite what frustrations they may have with it. Others throw tantrums and hand out ultimatums, demanding that the game be made the way they want it to be "or else!." When they leave, good riddance.

I agree with the sentiment that was stated re: "children who expect $50 to buy them eternal happiness." Heck - I spent more money than this on HL2, and got less play time out of it than I have with this so far. I didn't throw a fit over it - I just cleaned up the drive space, put the game on the shelf. Probably sometime when I'm bored, I'll reinstall it and play it again. So goes the world of gaming.

It happens with every mmo and online games in general. People want something added..they think they are the center of the universe. And when it doesn't happen they moan and whine.

Not oddly enough I've noticed it's mainly the "spoiled american brat" type of person that seems to complain the most. The "me me me! I want it now! I want it my way!!" type of people...which is dominant in our country.

I hate people that think they're getting a "free" game and force their beliefs on people that they should not complain about anything, etc. Bullshit. I paid $50 for this game along with many other people. Consequently it is NOT a free game. So stop trying to milk that argument for all it's worth.

not enough spanking during the childhood to set them straight, I tell you

what they mean is that you dont have to keep on paying just to play it like eq wow ff etc.

no the original game is not free but at least you dont have to play even if you dont feel like it because it is continuing to cost you money even if you are not playing
and yes i have things i would liked fixed/added but there is a limit to reasonable whineing

Firstly, I'm glad that there are people enjoying this game. but having said that I think most of the griping comes from the fact that the game is too casual.

I know that seems odd, but consider this: The game has been out only a few months and many people have breezed through the game several times, there have been countless ways people have exploited the game, and even now people complain that they have to 'grind' to get ahead.

is this GW is about? not a lot of level grind, but just enough for players to learn the game and prepare for PvP?

at least in all the reviews I've read, all the marketing lines from ANet, on all the game boxes I've seen, and I think many parts of the game manual hinted/said that too. and the name of the game is... drum rolls.... Guild Wars!

PvP, GvG.

Leaving so soon?