Ok so I haven't pvp'd much before and I decided to run some pick up with a guild mate in Droknar's. Well, we were both warriors, and we got some other players who weren't monks or anything.
Basically EVERY team we played were using the Invinci-Monk build. It's ridiculous. How is a team that's not organized able to be competitive in Team Arena? This really shows unbalance in PVP, especially for the casual players. I don't really know how to combat this other than to run my own Invinci Monk build. Granted, I know they have their weaknesses, but there needs to be a team built around that. You shouldn't need to.
Needless to say monks are currently too powerful and definitely need tweaking. And someone for the love of god give the Warrior an enchant or stance where they can never miss. Who's with me here?
A little rant about unbalanced monks in PVP
P1atinumGQ
Lasareth
Well gosh, just cast a spirit of Nature's Renewal or Lingering curse and you're good to go ;p got a monk with 55 hp and no buffs.
Er, 105 :P
Er, 105 :P
ShyB0i
2 words.. Rend enchantments. Or some other spell that removes enchantments.
P1atinumGQ
Um I'm using a Warrior/Monk here. That doesn't help me at all. And you have to realize that I can't dictate what teammates I find when I random join or something. It takes like forever to get the right party. Very frustrating. Like I said before, I KNOW there are ways to combat them, but that means specific skills on specific classes.
Unfortunately there's no "change to necro" skill available.
Unfortunately there's no "change to necro" skill available.
Lasareth
Isn't that what GW is about though?
Zeru
Natures Renewal ( 
)
Rend Enchantments
Lingering Curse
Take your pick
Warriors have a stance where they can't miss except to blind. It's called warriors cunning and it sucks
If you're complaining about teammates, play team arena. Random arena is not real pvp (team isn't either but it's much better).
)Rend Enchantments
Lingering Curse
Take your pick
Warriors have a stance where they can't miss except to blind. It's called warriors cunning and it sucks
If you're complaining about teammates, play team arena. Random arena is not real pvp (team isn't either but it's much better).
thexgodfatherx69
let me go on record as saying that Monk's should be nerfed! I agree that enchants can be removed with certain spells but I also think that it is lame when an character can solo! This game's pve was designed for groups! Any class who can solo or farm by themselves should be nerfed! NERF NERF NERF you are all nerf herders!
Makkert
the 'invinci monk' in pvp is crap. it is good for pve.
kill like this:
- enchantment removal as stated
- use degens. yes, bleeding/poison combo or fire should do fine. or phantasm. or life transfer....etc
a single bleedng won't do much.
- interrupt. if he ues heal spells like Healing Breeze, interrupt those.
- ignore. yes, ignore the invinci monk till his teammates are killed. the build doesn't allow much healing because of the -1 regens it takes to setup. (prot bond-balth. spirit-essence bond is allready -3.)
kill like this:
- enchantment removal as stated
- use degens. yes, bleeding/poison combo or fire should do fine. or phantasm. or life transfer....etc
a single bleedng won't do much.
- interrupt. if he ues heal spells like Healing Breeze, interrupt those.
- ignore. yes, ignore the invinci monk till his teammates are killed. the build doesn't allow much healing because of the -1 regens it takes to setup. (prot bond-balth. spirit-essence bond is allready -3.)
Mitsu Bishi
Nobody forces you to play a W/Mo - you can easily change your secondary class. It's like an E/W complaining that he is very easily overwhelmed by hexes. You're not supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades, you play a role in a team. If that team is not well balanced - that's the nature of the random arenas. I had a team of four monks (and none of them was a smiter) once - do you think that was fun? Random means just that - random. One time you've got the right tools in your group, another time not.
Live with it or change something about it yourself.
Live with it or change something about it yourself.
P1atinumGQ
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Originally Posted by Makkert
the 'invinci monk' in pvp is crap. it is good for pve.
kill like this: - enchantment removal as stated - use degens. yes, bleeding/poison combo or fire should do fine. or phantasm. or life transfer....etc a single bleedng won't do much. - interrupt. if he ues heal spells like Healing Breeze, interrupt those. - ignore. yes, ignore the invinci monk till his teammates are killed. the build doesn't allow much healing because of the -1 regens it takes to setup. (prot bond-balth. spirit-essence bond is allready -3.) |
It's not that I can just ignore them. They cast Balthazar's Aura and it does quite a bit of damage to my entire party. And at the same time I'm getting attacked from someone else.
One game was especially brutal. One monk decided to bust out a sword and shield, tanked me, while using Balthazar's Aura, while her teammate, another (guess what) Invinci-Monk users Balthzara's as well and heals her teammate while at it. Yeah like I said before... FUN.
thexgodfatherx69
Nerf The Monk! Nerf The Warrior!
P1atinumGQ
Warriors don't need to be nerfed. We need to be doubled in power. Seriously.
thexgodfatherx69
no you don't... any class that can solo or farm by itself needs to be nerfed! Farming is NOT fine =)
sambotheman
kill an ele first and use well of profane and then stops them using enchants for enough time to kill them
Makkert
Quote:
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Originally Posted by P1atinumGQ
It's not that I can just ignore them. They cast Balthazar's Aura and it does quite a bit of damage to my entire party. And at the same time I'm getting attacked from someone else.
One game was especially brutal. One monk decided to bust out a sword and shield, tanked me, while using Balthazar's Aura, while her teammate, another (guess what) Invinci-Monk users Balthzara's as well and heals her teammate while at it. Yeah like I said before... FUN. |
if you try to kill it with melee-ing it to death, you give him energy. 17 cast prot bond (unlikely in pvp) or Bonetti's will see to that.
and balthasar's aura...ever consider running away for a few secs or a different target?
Since the other monk did the healing, i'm sure he/she would have made a fine target, no?
wheel
Like multiple people have posted, Nature's Renewal FTW.
IceD'Bear
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Originally Posted by P1atinumGQ
How is a team that's not organized able to be competitive in Team Arena?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by P1atinumGQ
Unfortunately there's no "change to necro" skill available.
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JackOften
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Originally Posted by Zeru
Natures Renewal (
)Warriors have a stance where they can't miss except to blind. It's called warriors cunning and it sucks |
But whats this thread about ? "OMG W/Mo can't solo a Mo/W!! UNBALANCED!!"
The list of counters against enchants is ridicously endless, I would be closer to agreeing with you if you said a majority of the actually powerful enchantments are worthless for this very reason - ease of removal.
Changing secondary, making a PvP char or just saying "Group looking for Me/N or N/Me" isn't that hard.
UltimaXtreme
war/mo sucks :|
switch to war/me with drain enchant and signet of humility or something
switch to war/me with drain enchant and signet of humility or something
Numa Pompilius
Yesterday I got to watch as three W/Mo's tried to smite and beat one invinci-105-monk to death for 10 minutes, and failed. The monk simply sat on the ground and let them beat/smite, waiting for them to get bored and forfeit the game. At that point I got bored and logged off, so I don't know if the warriors or the monk tired first.
W/Mo's are completely helpless against a defensive monk, regardless of what skills they bring or how good they are. And considering that the rest of the teams were dead and their res-signets spent, what were they supposed to do?
I don't think it's unreasonable that warriors should have some sort of enchantment removal skill. Personally I find it more unreasonable that W/Mo's is the only class that don't have any way of countering enchantments at all.
W/Mo's are completely helpless against a defensive monk, regardless of what skills they bring or how good they are. And considering that the rest of the teams were dead and their res-signets spent, what were they supposed to do?
I don't think it's unreasonable that warriors should have some sort of enchantment removal skill. Personally I find it more unreasonable that W/Mo's is the only class that don't have any way of countering enchantments at all.
Silmor
Elementalists can't counter enchantments, monks can't counter enchantments, warriors can't counter enchantments. If you take any combination of those three classes, you sign up for a combo without enchantment removal, but with a lot of -other- perks. There's plenty of things a necromancer, mesmer and ranger can't do - it's called balance.
One class shouldn't be able to counter everything, that's where teamwork comes in. If you absolutely must, just do the secondary profession quests in the desert and take a profession that -can- deal with enchantments.
One class shouldn't be able to counter everything, that's where teamwork comes in. If you absolutely must, just do the secondary profession quests in the desert and take a profession that -can- deal with enchantments.
QuixotesGhost
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Yesterday I got to watch as three W/Mo's tried to smite and beat one invinci-105-monk to death for 10 minutes, and failed. The monk simply sat on the ground and let them beat/smite, waiting for them to get bored and forfeit the game. At that point I got bored and logged off, so I don't know if the warriors or the monk tired first.
W/Mo's are completely helpless against a defensive monk, regardless of what skills they bring or how good they are. And considering that the rest of the teams were dead and their res-signets spent, what were they supposed to do? I don't think it's unreasonable that warriors should have some sort of enchantment removal skill. Personally I find it more unreasonable that W/Mo's is the only class that don't have any way of countering enchantments at all. |
MarkyX
You're not playing them right if you say that.
I play Axe warrior and I've been invited to many guilds and even been called cheater because I was owning so much with him.
I play Axe warrior and I've been invited to many guilds and even been called cheater because I was owning so much with him.
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Lasareth
Well gosh, just cast a spirit of Nature's Renewal or Lingering curse and you're good to go ;p got a monk with 55 hp and no buffs.
Er, 105 :P |
I find that "Wild Blow" does a pretty good number on them for nullifying their stances, can't be evaded or blocked. One can't be an adrinilin build with Wild Blow though since it uses up all your adrinilin.
Divinitys Creature
Ditch the monk secondary, really mending is not all that. GET SOME ENCHANT REMOVAL
kalaris
Warrior / Monk is a defenseive class when used with healing prayers and Protection prayers,
With smiting prayers its a little more offenseive.
There are 3 classes with enchantmen remvoal
Necromancer has strip, rend etc
Mesmer has shatter, drain, inspired
Ranger has Natures Renwal.
I personally think W/Mo is a waste of a character in any pvp, W(axe)/N(curse) has all the tools to kill one of these monks:
Lingering curse 1/3rd healing + Deep wound (-20% health, -33% healing = good)
Rend enchantments, strip them off after the above combo, and 2 hit him. = GG
I think its completely reasonable that there is something a W/Mo can't do.
W/Mo's Don't have any form of Enchantment removal, but they have semi relable, hex and completely relable status removal (smite hex and mend ailment in case you couldn't figure it out)
W/E's don't have any sort of enchantment removal, or hex removal, or status removal period.
W/N have reliable status removal(plague touch) and semi reliable enchant removal(rend), but no hex removal period
W/Me Have reliable Enchant and hex removal, but no status removal, period.
W/R have weak 3 status removal (antidote) , and long recast highly effecitve Enchant/hex removal.
Seems to me thats balanced and reasonable.
With smiting prayers its a little more offenseive.
There are 3 classes with enchantmen remvoal
Necromancer has strip, rend etc
Mesmer has shatter, drain, inspired
Ranger has Natures Renwal.
I personally think W/Mo is a waste of a character in any pvp, W(axe)/N(curse) has all the tools to kill one of these monks:
Lingering curse 1/3rd healing + Deep wound (-20% health, -33% healing = good)
Rend enchantments, strip them off after the above combo, and 2 hit him. = GG
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Poster above me
I find it reasonable that W/Mo is the only class that don't have any way of countering Enchantments at all
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W/Mo's Don't have any form of Enchantment removal, but they have semi relable, hex and completely relable status removal (smite hex and mend ailment in case you couldn't figure it out)
W/E's don't have any sort of enchantment removal, or hex removal, or status removal period.
W/N have reliable status removal(plague touch) and semi reliable enchant removal(rend), but no hex removal period
W/Me Have reliable Enchant and hex removal, but no status removal, period.
W/R have weak 3 status removal (antidote) , and long recast highly effecitve Enchant/hex removal.
Seems to me thats balanced and reasonable.
Diomedes
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| I don't think it's unreasonable that warriors should have some sort of enchantment removal skill. Personally I find it more unreasonable that W/Mo's is the only class that don't have any way of countering enchantments at all. |
Seriously, every class has its strengths and weaknesses. That doesn't make it unfair, that makes it a team game. Does a goalie complain that he never gets to score?
-Diomedes
Numa Pompilius
Seriously, you guys don't think there's something seriously wrong when three (hell, you could probably have a full team) of W/Mo's are completely unable to kill ONE defensive monk?
Regardless of what skills they bring and how good they are?
Because that doesn't seem right or balanced to me.
Regardless of what skills they bring and how good they are?
Because that doesn't seem right or balanced to me.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Seriously, you guys don't think there's something seriously wrong when three (hell, you could probably have a full team) of W/Mo's are completely unable to kill ONE defensive monk?
Regardless of what skills they bring and how good they are? Because that doesn't seem right or balanced to me. |
in a team based game it seems perfectly balanced. The games focus is on "TEAM WORK"...if you thought long and hard about it you could make a build for every character in the game that was invincible to one of the other characters in the game. There's nothing wrong with the build...other than warriors not being able to insta-stomp everything in their path.
Mithie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Seriously, you guys don't think there's something seriously wrong when three (hell, you could probably have a full team) of W/Mo's are completely unable to kill ONE defensive monk?
Regardless of what skills they bring and how good they are? Because that doesn't seem right or balanced to me. |
Red Sonya
I also think W/Mo is great for PVE play (can solo with mine), but, for PVP not the best combo to choose if you are going to play a warrior in PVP arenas. You should be dps a killer and find a build that you basically are hitting your keys like wild doing damage every hit. I'm really starting to like my W/R because by adding apply poison to my skill list it's some powerful dps. And Troll Urguent is plenty of regen just like Mending, but, at no cost to energy recovery. Throw in a 3:1 vampiric sword and you're good to go, maybe not as "defensive" as a W/Mo, but, I just don't think a Warrior should play defensive in PVP. Balthazar's spirit is nice an all, but, you have to get hit for it to be effective, reminds me of the Palidin in Diablo 2 and Thorns, not my idea of an effective warrior. Balthazars Aura another nice W/Mo skill, but, once again it's like a one shot deal and then getting back 25 energy without balthazar's spirit or bonettis defense (both of which once again require getting hit or hit at.) not a very good PVP offensive Warrior. The balthazar's aura also requires you to either use Gladiator Chest and Legs or use a Healing Ankh which gives up a lot of Armor and dmg reduction from a good shield for the added energy. I still like my Knights Armor the best, good enough for defense without having to rely on skills to improve it.
Toss in Wild Blow for those stances, don't use adrinilin skills except maybe sever artery inbetween Wild Blows and then use the best damage lowest energy cost attack skills that you like, like Power Attack, skills you can spam quickly for the greatest dps.
And like others have said, there's no build that can counter everything and be great at anything. In PVP team/HoH the invicible monk is not invicible, maybe in PUG random arenas because you can't create your team and prepare for several different types of builds. But, the random PVP arena is nothing more than a "practice field" for the better arenas and rez sig not required! (heh I know someones gonna scream about no rez sig in random arenas lol but I don't care, I'm practicing, not competing).
Toss in Wild Blow for those stances, don't use adrinilin skills except maybe sever artery inbetween Wild Blows and then use the best damage lowest energy cost attack skills that you like, like Power Attack, skills you can spam quickly for the greatest dps.
And like others have said, there's no build that can counter everything and be great at anything. In PVP team/HoH the invicible monk is not invicible, maybe in PUG random arenas because you can't create your team and prepare for several different types of builds. But, the random PVP arena is nothing more than a "practice field" for the better arenas and rez sig not required! (heh I know someones gonna scream about no rez sig in random arenas lol but I don't care, I'm practicing, not competing).
delfin42
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
W/Mo's are completely helpless against a defensive monk, regardless of what skills they bring or how good they are. And considering that the rest of the teams were dead and their res-signets spent, what were they supposed to do?
I don't think it's unreasonable that warriors should have some sort of enchantment removal skill. Personally I find it more unreasonable that W/Mo's is the only class that don't have any way of countering enchantments at all. |
Or that none of the W/Mos brought a Res _spell_ instead of a Signet, so as to revive the fourth member (who might've been packing a useful skill -- an interrupt, an enchantment stripper, an energy drain, Mesmer goodies, Necro goodies).
Off the top of my head: Disrupting Chop? Dwarven Battle Stance? Various hammer knockdown attacks? Savage Slash? Distracting Blow? Skull Crack?
Gwenhywar
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Originally Posted by P1atinumGQ
How is a team that's not organized able to be competitive in Team Arena?
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If you want an unorganized team, there are random arenas for that. Team arenas are for players that like strategical, cooperative PvPing ... sorry, but plain mindless hack&slash will not get you far, even with a warrior!
If organization and strategy didn't matter at all in PvP, what would be the point to do PvP? (If you feel that monks are so "overpowered", by all means, why not play one yourself ... but will I reveal a big secret by telling that ANY class can be overpowered when played by a good player than knows what they are doing.)
LoneDust
There are many ways to beat a low-health proct bond monk. In addition to debuff and degen health skills, you can always use interrupts on their blessed sig and energy denile the monk untill the bond drops. If you have 3 warriors and not one of them can interrupt a monk casting, say, blessed sig, then you deserve to loose.
asdar
That's complete crap. I play a monk and there's no way a monk can hold off 3 warriors forever. Even with the best elite and arcane echo they're no where near invincible.
Any enchantment strip kills them, interupts kills them degens mixed with hexes kills them.
Monks aren't overpowered for PvP, every class combo available has a counter to a monk.
Any enchantment strip kills them, interupts kills them degens mixed with hexes kills them.
Monks aren't overpowered for PvP, every class combo available has a counter to a monk.
Linkie
This thread is laughable.
MSecorsky
I'd recommend casting Fertile Seasons first, just to see the monks crap their pants when their hit points jump up. Then pop NR for the panic effect.
Might as well have fun with 'em.
Might as well have fun with 'em.
ExDeity
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Originally Posted by P1atinumGQ
Um I'm using a Warrior/Monk here. That doesn't help me at all. And you have to realize that I can't dictate what teammates I find when I random join or something. It takes like forever to get the right party. Very frustrating. Like I said before, I KNOW there are ways to combat them, but that means specific skills on specific classes.
Unfortunately there's no "change to necro" skill available. |
I'm sorry, I don't agree.
Xonic
Everyone needs to be nerfed to zero skills and given a broken flute as weapon! Only then, we'll seattle the "xxx profession is over powered" complains.
Dwiggit
Okay, since the game came out I've seen community requests to nerf this or that class or skill because its overpowered.
I've seen:
W/Mo's are INVINCIBLE, must be nerfed! (Early on)
Air Elementalists do TOO MUCH DAMAGE, must be nerfed! (Not so long ago)
And now, Monks are INVINCIBLE, must be nerfed!
Just kinda funny, these classes haven't changed.
I'm just waiting for Mesmers are INVINCIBLE or Necros PWN, must be nerfed!
I think this is what the developers intended, let people figure out new and creative ways to play.
Let's just see what class is INVINCIBLE next month!
Dwig
I've seen:
W/Mo's are INVINCIBLE, must be nerfed! (Early on)
Air Elementalists do TOO MUCH DAMAGE, must be nerfed! (Not so long ago)
And now, Monks are INVINCIBLE, must be nerfed!
Just kinda funny, these classes haven't changed.
I'm just waiting for Mesmers are INVINCIBLE or Necros PWN, must be nerfed!
I think this is what the developers intended, let people figure out new and creative ways to play.
Let's just see what class is INVINCIBLE next month!
Dwig